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It's easy to forget how insanely efficient the wheel is alone. Evolution is unable to design a wheel, outside a handful of animals that general external wheels like scarab beetles, only humans seem to be able to take advantage of them. Bicycles are even better and it's a drat shame it took until only a few hundred years ago for people to invent the chain driven freewheel bicycle.
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Feb 14, 2022 05:28
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Phobophilia posted:It's easy to forget how insanely efficient the wheel is alone. Evolution is unable to design a wheel, outside a handful of animals that general external wheels like scarab beetles, only humans seem to be able to take advantage of them. Bicycles are fantastic, and IIRC are the most energy-efficient way of moving a human around. A chain-driven freewheel mechanism would also be effectively impossible with the steel of even 500 years ago, let alone 2000 or more.
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Feb 14, 2022 07:48
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not to mention the rubber in the wheels comes from a new world plant
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Feb 14, 2022 07:49
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envisioning an alt history where the bicycle is invented before the train and become standard issue for infantry to get themselves from point A to point B
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Feb 14, 2022 07:50
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good news, you don't need an alternate history. iirc while there are some historical variations on a two wheeled self propelled craft the velocipede (the first recognized "bicycle") was 1810s, while the steam locomotive was in the 1800s. which kind of still does make sense like you need mass production and economies of scale for a personal transport device to take off while industrial moving of goods has a basically infinite incentive to spend more on infrastructure to reduce running costs. e: apologies, misread you
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Feb 14, 2022 07:58
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cheetah7071 posted:envisioning an alt history where the bicycle is invented before the train and become standard issue for infantry to get themselves from point A to point B I started imagining a bicycle-based Teutonberg Forest, but realised the Roman Empire with all its roads would have been ripe for the bicycle.
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Feb 14, 2022 09:10
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cheetah7071 posted:envisioning an alt history where the bicycle is invented before the train and become standard issue for infantry to get themselves from point A to point B IIRC that has actually happened a few times at least, I've seen photos of the Japanese army in WW2 using bicycles en masse. Problem is that it's fairly niche as transportation in large numbers goes, you need somewhere to put all those bikes and to carry tools and spare parts to repair them, and you need roads that are good enough- and flat enough- for them to be practical.
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Feb 14, 2022 10:38
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Ghost Leviathan posted:IIRC that has actually happened a few times at least, I've seen photos of the Japanese army in WW2 using bicycles en masse. Problem is that it's fairly niche as transportation in large numbers goes, you need somewhere to put all those bikes and to carry tools and spare parts to repair them, and you need roads that are good enough- and flat enough- for them to be practical. vietnamese used them in jungle and on mountains
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Feb 14, 2022 10:43
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ChubbyChecker posted:vietnamese used them in jungle and on mountains Lots of people had a go - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_infantry Last probably used en masse in the West by Volksgrenadiers in like 1945, looks like, which makes sense given they were absolutely scraping the barrel.
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Feb 14, 2022 12:09
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ChubbyChecker posted:vietnamese used them in jungle and on mountains Oh, what, some sort of "mountain bike"? 
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Feb 14, 2022 13:27
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CrypticFox posted:There's a full translation on its British museum page: https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/object/Y_EA5634. This didn't get enough love. Tag yourselves, I'm DRINKING WITH KHONSU
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Feb 14, 2022 13:28
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Tias posted:This didn't get enough love. Tag yourselves, I'm DRINKING WITH KHONSU I'm WITH KHONS MAKING REMEDIES. I assume Khons is Khonsu's nickname, and they are making hangover cures.
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Feb 14, 2022 14:47
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We fight in a platoon We're bicycle dragoons! But the tires aren't great So we sit and wait Until Empire's noon!
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Feb 14, 2022 15:35
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SimonChris posted:I'm WITH KHONS MAKING REMEDIES. I assume Khons is Khonsu's nickname, and they are making hangover cures.  the scribe's wife needs a lot of help on those remedies
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Feb 14, 2022 15:37
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FAUXTON posted:
Assuming/hoping it is the scribe writing the list they’re talking about
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Feb 14, 2022 16:37
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Ghost Leviathan posted:IIRC that has actually happened a few times at least, I've seen photos of the Japanese army in WW2 using bicycles en masse. Problem is that it's fairly niche as transportation in large numbers goes, you need somewhere to put all those bikes and to carry tools and spare parts to repair them, and you need roads that are good enough- and flat enough- for them to be practical. Yeah the big use the Japanese Army made of bicycles in WW2 was to move a large force through the jungle to invade Singapore. They did things like create make-shift bridges over smaller streams by having soldiers stand in the water holding planks for the rest to bike over. But yeah "most energy efficient" doesn't mean "fastest". If you have fossil fuels to run modern trains, ships, and aeroplanes, then those are much more effective at keeping your military agile. But I for one lol forward to the post-fossil fuel future in which bicycle dragoons become the standard.
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Feb 14, 2022 16:41
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Didn’t they also kind of use them as inline wheel rickshaws to carry gear too? Easier to roll gear along instead of carry it on your back.
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Feb 14, 2022 17:00
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"day 17 (BURYING THE GOD)" Is this a euphamism for something?
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Feb 14, 2022 17:44
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Whorelord posted:"day 17 (BURYING THE GOD)" Probably Osiris cult stuff? I know they made Osiris chia pets in the springtime (germinating the god), so wouldn't be surprised if they also buried Osiris dolls in the winter.
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Feb 14, 2022 17:51
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Crab Dad posted:Didn’t they also kind of use them as inline wheel rickshaws to carry gear too? Easier to roll gear along instead of carry it on your back. Bicycles were used extensively for portage on the Ho Chi Minh trail. 
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Feb 14, 2022 18:07
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Lead out in cuffs posted:But I for one lol forward to the post-fossil fuel future in which bicycle dragoons become the standard. The Emberverse post-apocalyptic PNW series has a lot of this, which is fun. Bikes and gliders take over in a world where fossil fuels magically become inert and the planet falls apart in a Malthusian collapse. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emberverse_series
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Feb 14, 2022 19:11
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Kaal posted:The Emberverse post-apocalyptic PNW series has a lot of this, which is fun. Bikes and gliders take over in a world where fossil fuels magically become inert and the planet falls apart in a Malthusian collapse. Why would gliders matter? Who is storing a bunch of crap at the top of the hill than needs to be distributed within thermal delivery?
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Feb 14, 2022 20:22
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Crab Dad posted:Why would gliders matter? Who is storing a bunch of crap at the top of the hill than needs to be distributed within thermal delivery? so his ren fair pals can take over the world and fly hang gliders, duh
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Feb 14, 2022 21:05
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cheetah7071 posted:not to mention the rubber in the wheels comes from a new world plant Yes and no. The rubber tree is the source of most commercially produced rubber, but there are old world plants that produce enough rubber to be useful. If you were to travel back in time to teach the Romans how to make bicycles you could also bring along some modern high-yield cultivars. The Roman Empire would probably have been quite capable of turning some outlying area like Britannia into one big dandelion farm to keep their all-conquering bicycle dragoons in rubbers (and spare tires).
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Feb 15, 2022 03:17
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Crab Dad posted:Why would gliders matter? Who is storing a bunch of crap at the top of the hill than needs to be distributed within thermal delivery? In the books they're used for reconnaissance, communications, and I believe a special ops insertion if I remember correctly. In a world largely without air power, having even a little bit of it would be pretty useful I'm sure. Cargo is moved via the old rail lines using oxen trains, along some of the carefully rehabilitated highways, or by water. Tunicate posted:so his ren fair pals can take over the world and fly hang gliders, duh Right, this one knows what I'm talking about. Stirling did a pretty good job of world building, particularly for a guy who never lived in the area. Though as someone from Corvallis, I think he would have loved to have known that for years we actually held an annual engineering fair called Da Vinci Days featuring catapults and a full-size trebuchet (watching it chuck a Volkswagen Bug was great, and seeing it throw a washing machine across a soccer field was even better.) Kaal fucked around with this message at 10:18 on Feb 15, 2022 |
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Feb 15, 2022 03:42
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Bicycles are still standard issue for Finnish infantry. They're way more convenient than finding a bunch of trucks to move a company out to exercises.
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Feb 15, 2022 06:16
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Feb 15, 2022 06:32
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What's that from?
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Feb 15, 2022 06:44
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tracecomplete posted:What's that from? Me making nonsense in covid iso e: I hope I can find the others. I tried to work out what kinds of bike cavalry would be produced by various australian suburbs, should civilisation collapse. It seemed terribly important at the time Tree Bucket fucked around with this message at 07:31 on Feb 15, 2022 |
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Feb 15, 2022 06:47
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Tree Bucket posted:Me making nonsense in covid iso Please continue, sounds fun The nonsense, anyway
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Feb 15, 2022 07:04
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Siivola posted:Bicycles are still standard issue for Finnish infantry. They're way more convenient than finding a bunch of trucks to move a company out to exercises. Are the bicycles any good? Available in the US?
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Feb 15, 2022 07:57
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PeterCat posted:Are the bicycles any good? Available in the US? They are made by the Helkama company and are good durable bikes without gears, but the retail version of the military bikes are stuffed with non durable luxuries like gears and standardized commercial stuff. Sweden also had military bikes of equal simplicity and durability and I know that one can find those all the time here in Sweden on second hand places like our local craigslist variants (most of these bikes are probably +50 years old by now though). I assume you can similarly buy old Finnish military bikes in Finland, and if you pay for the hefty shipping fee you could probably have some Finnish dude ship it to you.
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Feb 15, 2022 09:03
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Even if you couldn't make chain gears for bicycles, could you not build penny-farthings? That seems like you could get some stew cookin'
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Feb 15, 2022 09:11
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The Helkama Oiva is available as a single speed, it should be pretty close. The tires are probably narrower on commercial models, but the frame geometry is the same. Costs 500€ though.  Some of our bikes were absolutely clapped out – my first one didn’t have a working brake, and people had trouble with chains falling off. My second one worked beautifully, and I'm so average-sized that I could get the riding position just right.
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Feb 15, 2022 09:20
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PeterCat posted:Are the bicycles any good? Available in the US? They are heavy as hell with super slack angles. Ok for city riding if there's no hills. Basically a klunker. The only special thing is still fairly impressive tire clearance - they come with 2,1" 27,5" tires and have loads of room left. That's modern mtb territory.
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Feb 15, 2022 09:51
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After a brief Google search it looks like they're all very expensive in the US and don't offer much other than the novelty of being what they are. Still, I'm surprised the US doesn't have a stock of them for airborne troopers somewhere.
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Feb 15, 2022 10:09
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Drakhoran posted:The Roman Empire would probably have been quite capable of turning some outlying area like Britannia into one big dandelion farm to keep their all-conquering bicycle dragoons in rubbers 
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Feb 15, 2022 12:10
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Nessus posted:Even if you couldn't make chain gears for bicycles, could you not build penny-farthings? That seems like you could get some stew cookin' I mean I guess but you could also just make a rickshaw or other 2 wheel cart. The lack of good cheap steel is a pretty big drag on efficiency.
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Feb 15, 2022 15:13
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Watch Knight Riders you'll dig it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RB3DoJRoYc
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Feb 15, 2022 15:46
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I betcha it would be possible to make a tire material from leavy spurge sap, and just try to stop that poo poo from growing. Can then feed the byproduct to goats.
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Feb 15, 2022 15:47
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