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FLIPADELPHIA posted:What is the rationale for [leaving the car plugged in whenever it's parked]? Just curious. (thanks!) Pure convenience. It's awesome to walk out to your car and always know you can go the full range before you need to "fill it back up". And any modern car will manage its charge and battery such that you can just not worry about it at all. It's a really awesome aspect to EV ownership.
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Feb 14, 2022 17:40
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The 12V accessory battery in the Polestar 2 will start to lose charge after 30 days of being stored unplugged. It also does battery pre-conditioning for trips when you have it plugged in.
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Feb 14, 2022 17:41
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cruft posted:IMO if it's outdoors you should hardwire a L2 charger. Do you have to worry about it with the gen 2 Leaf?
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Feb 14, 2022 17:44
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FLIPADELPHIA posted:What is the rationale for this? Just curious. (thanks!) there's no downside to keeping it plugged in. the battery controller is very sophisticated and will make sure that the battery state of charge is maintained in an optimal way. the battery will gradually discharge over time anyway to keep various systems running, in the same way that a normal car's 12V battery gradually discharges over time.
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Feb 14, 2022 17:57
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Appreciate the replies, another question I haven't been able to figure out for years now: Why the gently caress does every EV still have a 12v battery? I understand the internal electrical lights radio etc would run on a 12v system for a lot of reasons, but why can that not be stepped down and drawn directly from the battery? Whats the point of a second antiquated battery in it? Also I assume the main battery is keeping the 12v battery charged so clearing its drawing to that anyways, why not skip it?
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Feb 14, 2022 18:14
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Surprisingly, a bunch of my local Kia dealers appear to have the EV6 in stock as of this morning, but all of them are RWD models. I wonder if the AWD models haven't been shipped yet, or if they got reserved/snapped up immediately. We don't get a ton of snow or ice here (and I know tires are more important than drivetrain in cold weather anyway), but in my experience AWD feels much more safe and stable in the rain, which we have in abundance. As well as lots of hills and mountains. Fortunately I'm not desperate for a new car, so I may wait until a good electric sedan (Ioniq 6?) comes out. But if a dealer near me gets an AWD EV6 without bullshit "market adjustment" fees, I might have to jump on it.
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Feb 14, 2022 18:16
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WhiteHowler posted:We don't get a ton of snow or ice here (and I know tires are more important than drivetrain in cold weather anyway), but in my experience AWD feels much more safe and stable in the rain, which we have in abundance. As well as lots of hills and mountains. uhhhhh
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Feb 14, 2022 18:17
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The 12V system has to be always drawing a small amount of power to unlock itself when you press a button on the fob. Having the high voltage traction battery replace the 12V means it will have to drain a lot while parked. Would suck to come back to a dead car after a couple of weeks. Also, the traction battery needs a way to disconnect from the rest of the car so might as well automatically do this while parked.
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Feb 14, 2022 18:20
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:uhhhhh Elaborate? I've driven all types of drivetrains, and AWD always feels like I have better traction and stability in heavy rain. Edit: Well, actually maybe FWD feels better. But gently caress driving a powerful RWD car in the rain, especially up inclines. Ask me about my old Camaro Z-28 and getting stuck at the bottom of hills when there was even a light drizzle falling, with my rear tires spinning fruitlessly, even just trying to get some momentum with the engine idling. WhiteHowler fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Feb 14, 2022 |
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Feb 14, 2022 18:22
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Kirios posted:Do you have to worry about it with the gen 2 Leaf? Apparently you do! God drat it, Nissan! This is not difficult! I'm basing my answer off some random forums posts. Maybe you could grub around in the menus and see if there's a way to have it stop charging when the battery hits 90%.
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Feb 14, 2022 18:23
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Tom Guycot posted:Why the gently caress does every EV still have a 12v battery? This isn't a dissimilar design to the Xbox needing both 12V and 5V. The 12V switches on when you "turn on" the console. You're able to turn it on wirelessly because of the little 5V system that's always on which can communicate with the controllers and get the "turn on" signal, which is then relayed to the power supply to enable 12V. There are probably a lot of other examples of this design, too. I just happen to know a lot about the Xbox due to a project I built a few years ago.
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Feb 14, 2022 18:25
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cruft posted:Apparently you do! God drat it, Nissan! This is not difficult! Based on what I’ve read you could do that with gen I leafs but not gen II. You can only set a timer. The only way I could figure out how to limit charging when I had mine was to do it via EVSE setting.
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Feb 14, 2022 18:26
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President Beep posted:Based on what I’ve read you could do that with gen I leafs but not gen II. You can only set a timer. The only way I could figure out how to limit charging when I had mine was to do it via EVSE setting. Yeah, people in the thread were talking about using a JuiceBox EVSE and asking it to make a guess about when the car was up at 85%. This fuckin' car.
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Feb 14, 2022 18:28
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WhiteHowler posted:Elaborate? I've driven all types of drivetrains, and AWD always feels like I have better traction and stability in heavy rain. same vehicle, same tires with AWD vs RWD? if the answer is no you are probably conflating driving a different vehicle with different tires with the performance of its drivetrain. traction off the line should really be the only thing that would be notably different and provided you aren't just loving mashing the throttle like an idiot you should have no problem getting off the line in rain. again i guess if you really boot it on a corner in a RWD car on a very wet road you will lose traction but this is not a vehicle problem this is a you are not driving appropriately for conditions problem. edit: lmao my man you are talking about driving a Camaro Z-28 as if that's at all representative of what a modern RWD with traction and stability control would feel like
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Feb 14, 2022 18:29
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Kirios posted:Do you have to worry about it with the gen 2 Leaf? So it's clear why I'm even worrying about this, it degrades the life of the battery of any (current) EV to charge it up to 100% and then let it sit there. Tesla on day 1 would automatically dial you back down to 90% after a couple days of having it set to charge all the way up to 100%. I think everybody else followed this practice, except for Nissan. The LEAF kind of famously provides you with multiple opportunities to degrade the battery. No (e: active) thermal management, still, in the 2022 model. It makes me angry. cruft fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Feb 14, 2022 |
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Feb 14, 2022 18:34
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Tom Guycot posted:Appreciate the replies, another question I haven't been able to figure out for years now: It’s to power things like: - Emergency hazard lights - Door entry - The charge port If the big battery dies you still want to be able to open the doors, and open the charge port to get it going again.
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Feb 14, 2022 18:37
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cruft posted:Yeah, people in the thread were talking about using a JuiceBox EVSE and asking it to make a guess about when the car was up at 85%. Yep, that’s the kind I have.
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Feb 14, 2022 18:40
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:same vehicle, same tires with AWD vs RWD? if the answer is no you are probably conflating driving a different vehicle with different tires with the performance of its drivetrain. This conversation makes me want a Kia EV6 WRC homologation special
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Feb 14, 2022 18:41
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:edit: lmao my man you are talking about driving a Camaro Z-28 as if that's at all representative of what a modern RWD with traction and stability control would feel like I'm not hard on cars; I don't stomp on the accelerator, and I rarely go much above the speed limit unless it's to match the flow of traffic. I just know what the different drivetrain types have felt like to me. Yes, in different car models, but I've driven enough (LOTS of rentals over the years) to sense a trend that makes me feel safer in AWD cars than RWD ones, especially when it's wet out. If I'm wrong in wanting an AWD EV rather than an RWD one, well, I'm okay with that, and you can laugh at the extra $3000 I'll be "wasting" if you'd like.
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Feb 14, 2022 18:42
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DoomTrainPhD posted:It’s to power things like: I am pretty sure that a bunch of things the OP mentioned like the radio and a bunch of internal electrical devices are now run off of the HV battery in most modern EVs but you would probably know a lot better than I do - is that the case and 12V hotel power is just for safety critical systems, or is it an ungodly mix?
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Feb 14, 2022 18:42
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Safety Dance posted:This conversation makes me want a Kia EV6 WRC homologation special I think the styling of the new Ioniq would work better WhiteHowler posted:haha no, I've driven several other RWD cars since then. That was just an extreme example and the main reason my next car was FWD. I'm tryin to think of the RWD cars I see on rental lots and they are either: Pony cars or similar (Charger, Challenge, Mustang, Camaro, 300), or RWD pickup trucks. All of which suck in inclement weather. Whatever you are "feeling" is not real but if you wanna spend three grand and time on a placebo that is well within your rights.
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Feb 14, 2022 18:47
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cruft posted:So it's clear why I'm even worrying about this, it degrades the life of the battery of any (current) EV to charge it up to 100% and then let it sit there. Tesla on day 1 would automatically dial you back down to 90% after a couple days of having it set to charge all the way up to 100%. I think everybody else followed this practice, except for Nissan. For the majority of EVs on the road today, the battery chemistry doesn't deal with being charged to 100% frequently. But it depends entirely on the elements that make up the battery and the charging subsystem having active temperature management and being relatively smart vs being in a Leaf. The "new" Tesla LFP batteries supposedly can handle charging to 100% all the time, where as the nickel/manganese batteries (the more common chemistry) do better between 10% & 80%. The LFPs are cheaper and are more stable at high charge, but they're heavier, less energy dense, and apparently do worse in cold weather. Until we have nuclear reactors in our cars that can drive for a million miles on one pound of uranium or whatever, we're going to be making these tradeoffs between cheaper, lighter, capacity, and environmental limitations.
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Feb 14, 2022 19:01
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I am pretty sure that a bunch of things the OP mentioned like the radio and a bunch of internal electrical devices are now run off of the HV battery in most modern EVs but you would probably know a lot better than I do - is that the case and 12V hotel power is just for safety critical systems, or is it an ungodly mix? Depends on the EV. 
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Feb 14, 2022 19:02
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Tom Guycot posted:Appreciate the replies, another question I haven't been able to figure out for years now: Safety... and momentum. In most current EV designs the contactors connecting the HV battery to the HV systems are kept open unless needed. The control and management system for EVs is generally run off the 12v side so it can operate without the HV battery being "on". So you need another battery to be able to run this system. Stepping down the voltage from the main pack would mean the HV pack needs to be constantly connected and a step down converter always powered up to provide the 12v system. Not very efficient I would imagine. Most EVs do not continuously charge the 12v battery either. Most only do so when turned on, or when plugged into a charger. The Leaf famously only charges the 12v if it is powered on, so you can end up with a dead 12v battery if you don't drive the vehicle for 3-4 weeks, even if it was plugged in! And then momentum... the auto industry has several decades of using a 12v system, so everything automotive is designed around it. There are plenty of parts that auto manufacturers can use off-the-shelf and lead acid batteries are cheap. If an auto manufacturer can save a penny, they are going to do it.
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Feb 14, 2022 19:04
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There is a good James May rant on YouTube a out how his Model S let the 12v die during the first extended lockdown despite being plugged in the whole time.
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Feb 14, 2022 19:11
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dissss posted:There is a good James May rant on YouTube a out how his Model S let the 12v die during the first extended lockdown despite being plugged in the whole time. Yeah there's some stories of this happening on the Polestar 2. I get that there's a lot of engineering complexity in drawing off a 400V/800V battery bank for low-voltage accessories but it sure seems like a dumb loving problem to run into when you have a giant car-sized battery just sitting there.
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Feb 14, 2022 19:17
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I had to jumpstart my Model 3 a couple years ago, also plugged in all the time. It was a surreal experience to do this. Once I started the car, I drove it over to the nearest service center, and they replaced for free it within 30 minutes or so. Nowadays, Tesla puts lithium 12V batteries in their cars. I bet it saves them money to spend $50 more on a 12V battery rather than to do service calls every 2 years. My Energica Ego has no 12V battery which is good for Keep It Simple, Stupid but I'd feel weary about touching the bike if it was wrecked.
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Feb 14, 2022 19:28
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I think the styling of the new Ioniq would work better I wouldn't group the 300 with the rest of them. It's just a regular rear end sedan that's RWD for some dumb loving reason. I found this out when I got offered a free upgrade to a 300 at the airport. In Vermont. In a snowstorm. When I had to drive an hour south of Burlington. I had no idea that anyone still made a RWD sedan and foolishly accepted the offer. At least it had a heated steering wheel, so my hands were warm when I went into the loving ditch. I'm definitely buying the AWD EV6. Death to RWD. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 14, 2022 19:30
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cruft posted:The 2017 Nissan LEAF is an exception. I thought the new Leafs finally stopped having dumb-batteries? FLIPADELPHIA posted:What is the rationale for this? Just curious. (thanks!) Modern EVs are never really “off.” Even after being parked for awhile, they’ll cycle fans and coolant loops and such. The powertrain control module will maintain both the traction and low voltage batteries without user interaction indefinitely if provided with shore power. In the absence of shore power, it will either cause one or both to slowly run down. Alternately, it will go into deep sleep (depending on manufacturer,) and the low voltage battery might run down, preventing you from starting the car when you come back to it. Just leaving it plugged in lets the computer take care of all that poo poo for you. The only thing I’d do with my Tesla if I intend to leave for an extended period is turn down the charge limit to 40-50% and make sure it’s under that the last time I drive it. (Li-ion batteries like to be parked/stored just under half-charge; It’s why devices say to take them out of the package and charge for a couple hours before use: They’re at storage charge from the factory.) Honestly, even modern ICE vehicles would probably benefit from a trickle charger if being left for more than a week or so. The inactive loads on modern cars are kinda surprising. EDIT: I missed a whole loving page, lol MrYenko fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Feb 14, 2022 |
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Feb 14, 2022 19:30
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The 12V problem has happened to all the manufacturers AFAIK. I guess keeping it charged is more difficult than it seems. Isn't there one car that has a manual contactor switch that lets you turn on the car with a dead 12V?
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Feb 14, 2022 19:31
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Citizen Z posted:I wouldn't group the 300 with the rest of them. It's just a regular rear end sedan that's RWD for some dumb loving reason. Guarantee that turd had all-seasons on it. All seasons start to lose grip below ~40°F even in bone dry conditions. I rented an AWD Dodge Journey in Anchorage in March. What a loving joke that thing was. It was like driving my Z06 on NT05Rs in the rain. Citizen Z posted:Death to RWD. 
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Feb 14, 2022 19:38
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Citizen Z posted:I wouldn't group the 300 with the rest of them. It's just a regular rear end sedan that's RWD for some dumb loving reason. The 300 uses the same platform as the Charger and Challenger. Mechanically all three are very similar.
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Feb 14, 2022 19:41
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MrYenko posted:Guarantee that turd had all-seasons on it. All seasons start to lose grip below ~40°F even in bone dry conditions. I rented an AWD Dodge Journey in Anchorage in March. What a loving joke that thing was. It was like driving my Z06 on NT05Rs in the rain. Probably. I barely made it out of the airport and just stayed the night in Burlington. quote:Fine, we can keep the Miata.
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Feb 14, 2022 19:48
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MrYenko posted:I thought the new Leafs finally stopped having dumb-batteries? I found a video claiming that the top-end trim package on the 2019 would AIR-COOL the battery pack. Haven't confirmed this (yet).
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Feb 14, 2022 20:02
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Why’s the Hyundais frunk so small? What’s under there? What are they hiding? The Ford is legit extra cargo space, I crammed a lot of stuff in there for the road trips I’ve gone on. I can’t think of anything I could use the Hyundais for besides some microfibers and a couple bottles of cleaning product. Drove to the office today. In 18 miles on I-80 Bluecruise reverted out of hands free mode 7 times and inadvertently departed my lane 3 times. When I drove to Colorado there were large sections of I-70 where it was actually useful and I was able to hands off for ~40 miles stretches so I’m sure there are people that get some good out of it entirely dependent on where they live and drive, but for my daily commute BC is useless crap. It’s so bad it makes my drive more stressful not less.
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Feb 14, 2022 20:05
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There’s air nearly everywhere so ultimately everything is air cooled if you really think about it.
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Feb 14, 2022 20:06
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bird with big dick posted:There’s air nearly everywhere so ultimately everything is air cooled if you really think about it. I think this illustrates why the Nissan LEAF would be a terrible car to bring with you to the moon.
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Feb 14, 2022 20:09
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The Korean carmakers aren't the only ones making EVs without big frunks. Mercedes' & BMW's latest EVs don't have frunks either. I bet a lot of the reasoning behind this kind of design revolves around doing things the way it's always been done so putting all the essential electronics under the hood makes sense.
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Feb 14, 2022 20:11
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Frunks are dumb
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Feb 14, 2022 20:14
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Tiny Timbs posted:Yeah there's some stories of this happening on the Polestar 2. I get that there's a lot of engineering complexity in drawing off a 400V/800V battery bank for low-voltage accessories but it sure seems like a dumb loving problem to run into when you have a giant car-sized battery just sitting there. It's especially dumb when there isn't an easy way of accessing the 12v when the car is dead. Not an EV specific problem either. MrYenko posted:I thought the new Leafs finally stopped having dumb-batteries? lol
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Feb 14, 2022 20:15
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