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tqilamknbrd posted:drat when you do cadet branch quartering it takes the quarters from the historical design not the modified design That's strange, in my game when my dynasty members create a cadet branch they get a new coat of arms that is a mix between my dynastic CoA and their current primary titles CoA.
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Feb 14, 2022 11:15
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Dorkopotamis posted:2. Related gripe, but as others have noticed I think there are some issues with hostile factions right now. Have had a couple fire on me from groups that, at minimum, have +20 opinion of me. Characters can be members of factions so long as relations are under +80, so that's not necessarily broken from the information you've provided. That said, there are issues with factions, in that membership isn't evaluated nearly often enough, so it's possible for someone to f.e. be a member of a faction, form an alliance with you (thus making membership ineligible), and then remain in the faction long enough for it to fire before membership is evaluated and they're properly removed.
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Feb 14, 2022 13:20
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Sheep posted:Characters can be members of factions so long as relations are under +80, so that's not necessarily broken from the information you've provided. There has to be something else going on, check the title history for any empire and you will se an endless list of "Installed by faction demand". Just a small expample, there are dozens of these just for this empire. It seem the only way someone inherits an empire title is if the previous ruler dies before the factions have time to fire.  I even created a new game and let it run in observer mode for 400 years to test it and it happens to all empires except those with elective inheritance. Even if it is working as designed it should be changed as the AI obviously can't handle all the factions.
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Feb 14, 2022 15:40
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Yeah the AI cannot manage succession and factions and it means big AI blobs almost never last more than a few decades until the very late game if they even get there.
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Feb 14, 2022 15:52
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As I said it is the Short Reign penalty on the top tier lords who typically have a ton of vassals while their own holdings are nowhere close to strong enough to hold back 70% of the vassals. Outside of friends that a character can make while it is under AI control, the short reign penalty makes all vassals like the opposing claimant more than their liege only to flip back once the new liege is in charge. The best way to handle this is to have the vassals actually keep their the positive opinion modifiers for much longer, like 20 years or something, so that once you installed a new liege, it is likely that no other claimant can persuade the guys that just revolted to back them instead. The AI (and players) could also try harder to install their most powerful vassals who have a legitimate shot at getting to 80+ into council positions regardless of their skills and get marriages in asap to form alliances. The chaos that happens in the game is fairly historical for the time period. The schizophrenic switching of allegiances isn't. I mean you get guys like the Earl of Warwick in the War of the Roses flip flopping all over the place but that was a rarity.
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Feb 14, 2022 16:01
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Except for the Biz: I never seen them break without external help (from myself, usually)
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Feb 14, 2022 16:01
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Mighty King: "hello my faithful vassals, I've been your rulers for 40 years now but I am getting a little bit old now, I guess I'll have my son and heir, whom you've all known since he was a toddler and he is on cordial terms with literally everyone, be at my side so I can teach him the last few things as ruler and leave the realm in his capable hands" Vassals: "YES O MIGHTY KING, OF COURSE! WE ALL LOVE YOU MORE THAN WE LOVE OUR OWN MOTHERS" *mighty king dies* Vassals one day later upon seeing the heir, whom they all liked before: "WHO IS THIS GUY ON THE THRONE?!? I'VE NEVER SAW HIM! I HATE HIM WITH ALL MY HEART!!! LET US INSTALL BRIAN MC DUMBFUCK INSTEAD" ... yeah, short reign penalties look really dumb at times and I wish they'd find another way to balance this stuff.
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Feb 14, 2022 16:10
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They have an opinion bonus if they liked the predecessor but PDS probably need to look at the numbers for Short Reign and Opinion of Predecessor in relation to each other - plus maybe similar opinion bonuses for "we installed them onto the throne in the first place" (for members of a winning faction or people who voted for a winning candidate). Short reign bonuses make a certain amount of sense but they need to be balanced by the context of the situation.
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Feb 14, 2022 16:21
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If you could take penalties during your ruler's reign in order to start passing responsibilities to your kid to mitigate Short Reign penalties, that'd be great. A bit more mounting unrest, higher plot power against the heir (and more plot power strength granted to the kid if they get turned against you) plus the risk of negative events due to stats? Maybe it could take giving them a council seat or something, which means you have one less slot for a powerful vassal.
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Feb 14, 2022 16:25
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I feel like if you did take away short reign penalties then dealing with unrest would be a Ben more trivial than it already is
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Feb 14, 2022 16:27
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I mean, the short reign penalty makes sense when you've just conquered new land/titles, not when you're inheriting your dad's same culture, same religion realm in which you have lived your entire life and, presumably, have been introduced to the court at a young age and you've been also taught how to rule and had meeting with all vassals and hunted with them and so on Naturally if your heir lived on the other side of europe his entire life (because he was landed, or married to a landed character) and just came back to grab daddy's throne, THEN it would make lots of sense to have penalties from the vassals not knowing who you really are. Or say, if the king croaks way before his time and leaves only a fresh faced, unproven 14 year old heir... but as we were discussing some time ago, it's exceedingly rare to die young unless you're very unlucky or go looking for it It just feels, in a game with such a strong theme and such a focus on characters, like a big breach of "suspension of disbelief" and is jarring to me. It just doesn't make sense that a vassal sees you grow from toddler to adult, lives in the court with you for 16+ years (or it might even be 30+ years), then suddenly as soon as daddy dies he despises you because you got the throne not long ago. Not because he already hated you! That would make too much sense! But only because you got the throne only as the king died. Yeah that's what tends to happen and YOU ALL KNOW IT FROM THE GET GO, you don't get the crown til the old king dies, especially since afaik there's no way to manually abdicate!!! (Well, there's an attempt suicide button, but...  )
TorakFade fucked around with this message at 17:21 on Feb 14, 2022 |
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Feb 14, 2022 17:17
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It would be cool if you could slowly cede power to your heir while still alive to negate some/all short reign penalties. It's something that was done IRL on several occasions, but would require letting the AI actually have some power. So you'd risk your idiot son declaring a war or mis-managing your holdings or something as a trade off
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Feb 14, 2022 17:23
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TorakFade posted:I mean, the short reign penalty makes sense when you've just conquered new land/titles, not when you're inheriting your dad's same culture, same religion realm in which you have lived your entire life and, presumably, have been introduced to the court at a young age and you've been also taught how to rule and had meeting with all vassals and hunted with them and so on I mean history strongly disagrees with this. The first few years of a successor in Europe routinely saw challenges to their right to rule. There's deeper issues going on than CK3 really models, like the generational changing of the guard of who gets important jobs within the administration, or fights over who might lead a regency or become co-ruler for an underage successor. But it was very rarely smooth sailing. But on the other hand, introducing your successor as co-ruler and slowly giving them authority within the administration to develop ties to the existing power structures is also very common, and it's weird that CK3 doesn't do that either.
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Feb 14, 2022 17:50
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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PittTheElder posted:I mean history strongly disagrees with this. The first few years of a successor in Europe routinely saw challenges to their right to rule. There's deeper issues going on than CK3 really models, like the generational changing of the guard of who gets important jobs within the administration, or fights over who might lead a regency or become co-ruler for an underage successor. But it was very rarely smooth sailing. That would be, ideally, a whole other thing. That certain vassals or siblings with certain traits / claims / interests would try to screw you over would be absolutely logical and fine, but on the same note you should (or could, at least) also have loyal friends at court ready to support you assuming you lived there for a long time; while right now is "everyone hates you including the compassionate, forgiving old 1-county baroness who stands to have no benefit from hating you" Introducing your heir or taking other appropriate steps to reduce succession friction should be a game mechanic, where you could succeed or fail but also that shouldn't make it a foregone conclusion in any case (say vengeful, ambitious vassals or rivals would still try to oust you even if everything was done perfectly, while a just and compassionate vassal or a friend would help you minimize the maluses from a botched succession preparation) Add some kind of will mechanic like often discussed to promise land, court positions or titles to sons and maybe even vassals to smooth things out and keep them happy, and that's one seriously good bullet point for an expansion! TorakFade fucked around with this message at 18:21 on Feb 14, 2022 |
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Feb 14, 2022 18:18
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On an unrelated note, doing a Vladimir's Second Choice run and I have three thoughts:
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Feb 14, 2022 19:01
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TorakFade posted:Introducing your heir or taking other appropriate steps to reduce succession friction should be a game mechanic, where you could succeed or fail but also that shouldn't make it a foregone conclusion in any case (say vengeful, ambitious vassals or rivals would still try to oust you even if everything was done perfectly, while a just and compassionate vassal or a friend would help you minimize the maluses from a botched succession preparation) Conclave for CK2 already had this and it would have been a great fit for royal court so I'm not sure why it wasn't added.
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Feb 14, 2022 19:32
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You do at least have the option of landing your heir and/or giving them court positions to start building their prestige for those level of fame opinion bonuses.
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Feb 14, 2022 19:34
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I'd really like to see an expansion focusing on childhood. This succession thing is part of why, but we also have no regencies and very bare-bones education / personality-development mechanics; there's a lot of room for improvement. This is a game about dynasties, and currently children barely exist outside of assigning them a betrothal and a tutor. e: I've mentioned this before, but I like the idea of successors having some sort of "legitimacy" stat calculated for them, based on stuff like their age, their personal power, their parentage (for instance, if they're a legitimized bastard), their sins and virtues, how long they've been the heir apparent, plus these hypothetical events like showing them off at court, etc.; basically, how comfortable the people are with the idea of this kid taking the throne. Then when succession happens, that score would be used to determine the short-reign penalties, so if your heir is a 30-year-old war hero who's been a duke for ten years he'll have fewer problems. megane fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Feb 14, 2022 |
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Feb 14, 2022 20:01
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Eldoop posted:You do at least have the option of landing your heir and/or giving them court positions to start building their prestige for those level of fame opinion bonuses. And seeing your heir make the most boneheaded decisions, pick up every possible negative trait and several powerful rivals and marry a 56 year old literal witch after murdering the beautiful genius 18 year old you scored him? Never landing a heir again, sorry. Court positions are good though E: megane posted:I'd really like to see an expansion focusing on childhood. This succession thing is part of why, but we also have no regencies and very bare-bones education / personality-development mechanics; there's a lot of room for improvement. This is a game about dynasties, and currently children barely exist outside of assigning them a betrothal and a tutor. Yeah being able to shape your heir a little more deeply than "keep bad trait, replace with anoher bad trait for stress to yourself" would be great. Maybe make stress apply to the child too when changing and giving a bit more freedom to change traits? But stressing them too much could make them bitter, lunatic or make them randomly replace a trait TorakFade fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Feb 14, 2022 |
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Feb 14, 2022 20:08
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At the very least I'd like for wards to respond to decisions you actively make, i.e. if your wards see you beheading vassals left and right you might either make them a psychopath or compassionate, or if you go on a pilgrimage they should come too and maybe learn something, or if you are wholly dedicated to a lifestyle there is a chance they pick up some perks from you too. If you turn a small backwater kingdom into a continent straddling empire you should have some heirs with similar ambitions, or delusions of grandeur, etc. The ward decisions feel utterly detached from how you are actually playing in a way that feels flat at best.
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Feb 14, 2022 20:20
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Before picking CK3 back up for Royal Court I hadn't played since around release so it's been a while but I don't remember claimant civil wars in big empires being nearly as silly as they are now. So I feel like there's some actual buggy behavior going on instead of just basic fundamentals like short reign penalty + lots of vassals. The max reign for any emperor of the HRE or Byzantine empire now is basically about as long as it takes for the claimant faction to besiege the capital.
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Feb 14, 2022 20:27
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TorakFade posted:And seeing your heir make the most boneheaded decisions, pick up every possible negative trait and several powerful rivals and marry a 56 year old literal witch after murdering the beautiful genius 18 year old you scored him? Never landing a heir again, sorry. This reasoning is repeated so often and I find it is blown way out of proportion; I've played hundreds of years in multiple games, landing my heirs carefully and very, very rarely had problems with that. You do need to prepare for it though. A religion that allows adultery and arranging their marriage ahead of time are definitely things you should do.
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Feb 14, 2022 20:31
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Every time I've landed an heir they've become a huge gently caress-up and ruined themselves. Never again.
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Feb 14, 2022 20:33
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How are u posted:Every time I've landed an heir they've become a huge gently caress-up and ruined themselves. Never again. This is why you do it, though. Royals should be neurotic, adulterous trainwrecks, that's just realistic.
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Feb 14, 2022 20:38
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Landing anyone is a big mistake, and this game has taught me that feudalism is a bananas way to run a country. I regret landing anyone that isn't an old unmarried woman without kids.
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Feb 14, 2022 20:48
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I'd even settle on having a parenting decision like pilgrimage every few years. Pick a kid, maybe pass on a hook, ingratiate them with the court or introduce them to allies, teach them a point in the skill tree that you already have, and have them be hated by their siblings for outright favoritism that lasts throughout their lives. Or failing that, send them off for a year or so they come back with some flavoured buff about them vaguely having proven their poo poo is together and they're worthy to rule.
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Feb 14, 2022 21:01
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How are u posted:Every time I've landed an heir they've become a huge gently caress-up and ruined themselves. Never again. My new favorite way to play this game is with Gavelkind always on and Mystical Ancestors. A year before death, hand out every title you've got, besides your top and capital. Invest in dynasty bonuses and your realm will be packed with your own and very stable. The most tedious part of the game (map painting) gets played for you by your family. And if your heir is a fuckup, which is always possible in any circumstance, you got another one just around the corner.
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Feb 14, 2022 21:15
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Magil Zeal posted:This reasoning is repeated so often and I find it is blown way out of proportion; I've played hundreds of years in multiple games, landing my heirs carefully and very, very rarely had problems with that. I joke for comedic effect, but the ai just isn't that great at handling themselves - the marrying much older women if their first wife died springs to mind, I have witnessed it many times. But also picking up really dumb traits or decisions. I get it's realistic, but I bet that realistically if I, the king of Sicily, landed my son as count I would basically puppet him anyway since he stands to inherit the whole shebang and I wouldn't want him messing up, while the game just sets him as any other vassal which mostly entails doing whatever the hell they want. Guess childhood, inheritance and close family really deserves an expansion by itself... Maybe a system of your son asking you for advice on how to handle certain situations? Of course that doesn't have to mean being able to turn every heir into a superhero grey eminence, but for a game about dynasties as well put before it would be nice to actually have more interactions with close family (with an entire focus tree built around it it seems to encourage it, but really you can't do much more than befriend them and get super high opinions)
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Feb 14, 2022 21:19
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Omnicarus posted:At the very least I'd like for wards to respond to decisions you actively make, i.e. if your wards see you beheading vassals left and right you might either make them a psychopath or compassionate, or if you go on a pilgrimage they should come too and maybe learn something, or if you are wholly dedicated to a lifestyle there is a chance they pick up some perks from you too. If you turn a small backwater kingdom into a continent straddling empire you should have some heirs with similar ambitions, or delusions of grandeur, etc. That would be cool. Whereas now in RC it seems like the trait events are heavily tied to their guardians stats, meaning if you educate your heir yourself you will basically play as the same character all game. I'm pretty sure if you memorized the events you could actually trait-eugenics your heirs now. TorakFade posted:And seeing your heir make the most boneheaded decisions, pick up every possible negative trait and several powerful rivals and marry a 56 year old literal witch after murdering the beautiful genius 18 year old you scored him? Never landing a heir again, sorry. Seriously, the decisions the AI character makes are just insane at all times. Love taking over as a character and see that they've murdered a bunch of randoms for no discernible reason. Or the time I took over as my 13 year old son and he had 230 stress plus the Confider trait; he nearly killed himself trying to learn a language of his own volition. TorakFade posted:I get it's realistic, but I bet that realistically if I, the king of Sicily, landed my son as count I would basically puppet him anyway since he stands to inherit the whole shebang and I wouldn't want him messing up, while the game just sets him as any other vassal which mostly entails doing whatever the hell they want. Guess childhood, inheritance and close family really deserves an expansion by itself... Maybe a system of your son asking you for advice on how to handle certain situations? Something like this is badly needed in general. Like say your leige is facing down a popular uprising, it would be nice to be able to offer military support to encourage him not to just preemptively surrender. PittTheElder fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Feb 14, 2022 |
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Feb 14, 2022 21:36
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Being able to actually be an advisor would be great, improve playing as a vassal. And childhood focus would be good too, though I'd also want to see a reduction in player character immortality. It's rare I ever see a character I play die before 70, whereas in Ck2 I would absolutely have to play as a young child at some point because of a series of unfortunate deaths.
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Feb 14, 2022 22:03
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Yea playing as a vassal is way more fun in general, the more realm stuff there is to do, the better.
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Feb 14, 2022 22:11
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Being a vassal is fun until someone outside of your liege's realm decides they want your territory. Inevitably your liege will just sit the war out and while you can join the war, you don't get to call in your allies.
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Feb 14, 2022 22:48
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Gobblecoque posted:Being a vassal is fun until someone outside of your liege's realm decides they want your territory. Inevitably your liege will just sit the war out and while you can join the war, you don't get to call in your allies. Last time this happened to me I didn't even get a notification. I just had a bunch of angry danes running around.
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Feb 14, 2022 22:50
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I just got crushed by factions after a succession. Was Bohemia and took over Hungary. Installed my nephew as King of Hungary, but I was next in line, so just murdered him and bam, I’m now running both kingdoms. Put down a civil war a few years later and thought I had things semi-stable. My successor was some cousin who was unlanded until I gave him some county a few years before I died. I didn’t have absolute crown authority in order to change successors. As soon as that cousin took over, I had most of Hungary and half of Bohemia trying to overthrow me and I just didn’t have the numbers. Got bounced all the way down to Duke and I don’t even have a successor now. Sigh. Probably should have tried to murder that cousin to get to someone better to succeed me.
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Feb 15, 2022 00:32
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TorakFade posted:I mean, the short reign penalty makes sense when you've just conquered new land/titles, not when you're inheriting your dad's same culture, same religion realm in which you have lived your entire life and, presumably, have been introduced to the court at a young age and you've been also taught how to rule and had meeting with all vassals and hunted with them and so on You are mistaking the opinion stat with how much individuals 'like' you as a person rather than the measure of their belief in their ability to and inclination to gently caress with a character in order to advance their own interests. The short reign penalty isn't about a character all of a sudden disliking your heir just as the long reign bonus isn't a measure of them liking you just because you sat on the throne for a long time. It is there to represent the inertia of power and the shadow of that power that looms over them. One of the best lines in Game of Thrones is when Varys succinctly points out that power resides where men believes it resides. A king or lord who has held power for a long time is perceived to have entrenched their positions and is difficult to remove or to plot against while a new ruler is seen as a time where a vassal can jockey for position, land, wealth, and other benefits and settle old scores that the previous King might have already ruled on. That has always been the case in CK games. That's why there are opinion malus's in previous games and this one for things like female heirs, or the lack of an heir, denied from council etc etc. It is also why Tyranny malus's affect EVERY vassal even when you dick over another character's rival. Tyrannic actions are not just viewed as hahaha you did something bad to my enemies but viewed as 'poo poo if he is willing to do this, what happens when I gently caress up?'. TorakFade posted:That would be, ideally, a whole other thing. That certain vassals or siblings with certain traits / claims / interests would try to screw you over would be absolutely logical and fine, but on the same note you should (or could, at least) also have loyal friends at court ready to support you assuming you lived there for a long time; while right now is "everyone hates you including the compassionate, forgiving old 1-county baroness who stands to have no benefit from hating you" Except there already exists many ways to grease the wheels of a succession or immediately barter for a secure future. The first thing to remember is that 25% of your positive opinion is passed on to your heir at the time of death while 50% of any negative opinion is passed on to the heir. If you keep your more powerful vassals near 100 opinion by befriending them or giving them gifts all the time, your heir can start off with 20 to 25 opinion right off the bat. You know that useless piece of poo poo vassal that you never put on council because his stats are garbage? Yeah you never had to deal with him before because even though he held the strongest levies in the kingdom besides your own since he was isolated and unable to challenge your rule but that -60 modifier that you had when you died now gives that powerful vassal -30 to you kid and he is going to want payback. Even putting that vassal on council and giving him gifts isn't going to keep him out of faction shenanigans. Did your heir marry your kids and grandkids to try and create an ubermensch or are you doing it to powerful families inside the realm so your heir can try to immediately negotiate alliances upon succeeding the throne? Are you renegotiating more lenient feudal terms to try and push powerful vassals over that 80+ opinion hump? Even a few concessions can net you like another +15 opinion. How about handing over artifacts or cold hard cash? Lowering crown authority? The reality is that in medieval times, especially in the very early stages of the game, monarchies were exceptionally unstable and Kings had to barter with their vassals to maintain their allegiance. Historically, blobs didn't last long in history simply because even a very powerful ruler was constantly watching his own back and or constantly stomping down shady vassals. Going to war was dangerous even against a smaller neighbor because it could leave you exposed without money and men to deal with potentially rebellious vassals who were just waiting for an opening. Whenever succession occurred, every vassal came out of the woodwork seeing if they could get an angle either by securing a more prominent position in court, getting concessions from the crown, or straight bilking the monarch for more cash. Not just monarchs but vassals who had their own vassal problems to deal with.
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Feb 15, 2022 00:42
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Oh cool, I found another way that being a vassal can be weird and annoying. I conquered some territory in a holy war and then a few months later I noticed two updates pop up: my bishop aborted converting and a peasant rabble faction disbanded. I look at my new land and hey what do ya know, it's suddenly independent and ruled by a peasant leader. Apparently your liege can just decide to surrender on your behalf to peasant factions. Thanks boss, I really appreciate it.
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Feb 15, 2022 02:54
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When the peasants ask to speak to your manager.
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Feb 15, 2022 03:21
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Gobblecoque posted:Oh cool, I found another way that being a vassal can be weird and annoying. I conquered some territory in a holy war and then a few months later I noticed two updates pop up: my bishop aborted converting and a peasant rabble faction disbanded. I look at my new land and hey what do ya know, it's suddenly independent and ruled by a peasant leader. I had this happen when playing as Matilda of Tuscany when the HRE decided instead of dealing with Cisalpine populists, he'd just let them take almost all of my territory and form the kingdom of Italy out of it. I feel like the populists and factions should target who directly rules over the land and not go to the top. I could have easily handled them with my forces even though he was losing to 3 separate factions, but I didn't have the option. Also earlier I landed my genius heir who somehow in the few years of holding land murdered his brother, murdered my wife, got maimed and died which caused my character die of a heart attack and leaving me playing as my 1 year old grandson. I think I learned my lesson about landing my heirs for some lifestyle points.
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Feb 15, 2022 04:41
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Had my oldest ever ruler die last night. He had whole of body, the dog walking buff, and several others I don't recall off the top of my head. He hit infirm at something like 70 but his overall health stayed 'fine' thanks to the positive buffs. At 112 the 'you're about to die' popup appeared when he caught smallpox, only for it to disappear when he recovered from it at 113. Naturally, you can imagine how completely and terribly everything subsequently went to poo poo.
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Feb 15, 2022 04:51
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Looks like the bug from a few pages back is now confirmed by Paradox - Marshal and Chancellor events are broken in 1.5 completely, and not firing due to scripting errors. Will definitely hold off and wait for the hotfix patch before starting any new grand campaigns.
Rad Russian fucked around with this message at 05:32 on Feb 15, 2022 |
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Feb 15, 2022 05:28
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