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St0rmD posted:I thought in Aviendha's future-vision, they were publicly known to be the Dragon's children. Granted, her future-vision is apparently hypothetical, so idkwtf. She had two future visions. I don't think the first one, when she goes through the rings in Rhuidien, has anything about her kids.
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Feb 14, 2022 15:37
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Hexel posted:I was always a little mystified by Jordans mythology and the whole business about the DO being sealed away at the moment of creation. It's in all of them because an adversary explains death and everything terrible in life. I do like Rand's thoughts about the Creator being a gardener who grows fruit then leaves them be. And I guess their inevitable rotting is just a metaphor for the Dark One.
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Feb 14, 2022 15:46
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CainFortea posted:She had two future visions. I don't think the first one, when she goes through the rings in Rhuidien, has anything about her kids. We were never privy to what she saw in the ring ter'angreal, only to what she saw when she went through the glass columns in Towers of Midnight, in which she clearly lived as both her daughter and granddaughter, who were clearly known as the children of the Dragon.
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Feb 14, 2022 15:46
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My man got some powerful Dragon seed to be spawning twins and quadruplets with a couple nuts 
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Feb 14, 2022 16:03
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:that's not true!!! It's also a humiliation fantasy, the constant spanking, switching and birchings or threats to, is seriously wearying. Jordan should have tried writing with both hands. Its really not bdsm, as that has to be consensual, few times in the books is it so.
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Feb 14, 2022 16:11
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St0rmD posted:We were never privy to what she saw in the ring ter'angreal, only to what she saw when she went through the glass columns in Towers of Midnight, in which she clearly lived as both her daughter and granddaughter, who were clearly known as the children of the Dragon. Right. But given her reaction to the vision she had in the columns about her kids is what makes me think she didn't see anything about them in the rings.
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Feb 14, 2022 17:55
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jng2058 posted:Ah, got it, no interest in actual discussion. Your way or the highway. Cool, cool. Thanks for the head's up. Ignore it is! LOL sounds like you're the one who doesn't want to discuss, but OK sure.
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Feb 14, 2022 19:27
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Shageletic posted:It's in all of them because an adversary explains death and everything terrible in life. And as Rand realizes, the absence of the DO would make it so that “good” would be weird and meaningless
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Feb 14, 2022 19:51
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goethe.cx posted:And as Rand realizes, the absence of the DO would make it so that “good” would be weird and meaningless Or to put it another way, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INm-Uvfp4Do You need stuff that sucks to have stuff that's cool.
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Feb 14, 2022 19:53
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It’s gonna suck rear end when they rewrite the ending to have Rand super saiyan the DO instead of philosophizing with him for the show.
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Feb 14, 2022 20:53
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goethe.cx posted:And as Rand realizes, the absence of the DO would make it so that “good” would be weird and meaningless That was always kind of a weird part to the ending. Like, even if he could destroy the DO that doesn't mean that bad things won't happen, or that people won't be assholes. It just means that they will do so because of their own natures and not because of a metaphysical entity that exists out of space and time.
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Feb 14, 2022 21:01
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Invalid Validation posted:It’s gonna suck rear end when they rewrite the ending to have Rand super saiyan the DO instead of philosophizing with him for the show. they altered book 1 to make him beat ishamael by rejecting a too perfect future and got rid of him going SSJ so following the ending would be a very fitting callback
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Feb 14, 2022 21:07
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CainFortea posted:That was always kind of a weird part to the ending. Like, even if he could destroy the DO that doesn't mean that bad things won't happen, or that people won't be assholes. It just means that they will do so because of their own natures and not because of a metaphysical entity that exists out of space and time. I read it as saying that destroying the DO would in fact remove people's ability to be evil. Everyone would be "good" because they have no other choice. It's like the solution that some theologians have come up with to reconcile God being omnibenevolent with people still doing evil--remove free will and you devalue the good that people do.
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Feb 14, 2022 21:22
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Invalid Validation posted:It’s gonna suck rear end when they rewrite the ending to have Rand super saiyan the DO instead of philosophizing with him for the show. I don't think that's likely to happen.
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Feb 14, 2022 21:35
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He'll ask the Dark One to join the polycule.
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Feb 14, 2022 21:36
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Yeah, if anything the show has leaned more heavily into philosophy early on than the books did with most of what we've heard from Darkfriends being an echo of Ishamael/Moridin's philosophy instead of pure greed and the battle at the eye becoming a pretty blatant temptation instead of Rand going super saiyan with the Power.
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Feb 14, 2022 21:37
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goethe.cx posted:I read it as saying that destroying the DO would in fact remove people's ability to be evil. Everyone would be "good" because they have no other choice. It's like the solution that some theologians have come up with to reconcile God being omnibenevolent with people still doing evil--remove free will and you devalue the good that people do. The dark one is a shadow cast by the existence of free will. It's all for the world of no evil because that means it wins.
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Feb 14, 2022 22:25
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NinjaDebugger posted:The dark one is a shadow cast by the existence of free will. It's all for the world of no evil because that means it wins. Yep, pretty much. Although free will is kind of murky in Randland because of ta'veren and such
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Feb 14, 2022 22:31
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The DO will be personified as a young girl like in The Last Temptation of Christ
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Feb 14, 2022 22:36
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goethe.cx posted:Yep, pretty much. Although free will is kind of murky in Randland because of ta'veren and such Free will in the pattern is the difference between book Rand whining for half the series about not wanting to be the dragon and show Rand just going "yup, I'm the dragon" after a flashback sequence.
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Feb 14, 2022 23:05
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I don’t get the sense anyone but Aes Sedai even know what the dragon is in the show.
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Feb 14, 2022 23:43
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Invalid Validation posted:I don’t get the sense anyone but Aes Sedai even know what the dragon is in the show. Thom sang a whole song about him.
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Feb 14, 2022 23:57
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Invalid Validation posted:I don’t get the sense anyone but Aes Sedai even know what the dragon is in the show. Mat makes a joke about the dragon having wings.
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Feb 14, 2022 23:59
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Invalid Validation posted:I don’t get the sense anyone but Aes Sedai even know what the dragon is in the show. they knew enough about the Dragon for Logaine to declare himself the Dragon and have an army of followers
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Feb 15, 2022 00:01
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Feb 15, 2022 00:18
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CainFortea posted:Mat makes a joke about the dragon having wings. Which does undercut one of the funnier things in the book where no one really knows what the hell the Dragon is beyond a title and think the stylized lizard banner Rand finds is kinda weird.
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Feb 15, 2022 00:22
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The impression I got from the show is that the Dragon has the same reputation and legacy that he does in the books, but none of it got brought up because it would screw up the "Who is it?!" mystery. For one thing, Rand has to know something of the Dragon if the Black Wind can use it as part of his deepest fears.
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Feb 15, 2022 00:33
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Zore posted:I always assumed they were conceived post-body swap based on Min's viewings that they were Rand's children but strange and uh clearly did not look like him. It's unclear, but one of Aviendha's sons, Alarch has dark hair and it's said that he takes after his father. Rand very explicitly doesn't have dark hair anywhere in his family line as deep as we know but Moridin obviously does. So I think Avi's kids and conceived after the body swap.
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Feb 15, 2022 00:49
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do we have actual ahem hard numbers on the frequency of spankings? I honestly never thought twice about any of that stuff until people brought it up over and over and over and over and over
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Feb 15, 2022 00:55
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Brolander posted:do we have actual ahem hard numbers on the frequency of spankings? I honestly never thought twice about any of that stuff until people brought it up over and over and over and over and over It would be fuzzy anyway, since it gets referenced and threatened a lot more than it actually happens on the page, and it's not keyword-based like the various repetitive phrases. It's just that corporal punishment is a thing all over in the setting but the Aes Sedai and Aiel particularly love the hell out of it and a lot of plots happen among and around both.
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Feb 15, 2022 01:10
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The Aiel don't particularly love it. It's seen as a not particularly good way to meet one's toh. Even when Egwene has them strap her for lying she does it because it's the fastest way.
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Feb 15, 2022 01:13
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I feel like it's always supposed to be child's punishment, for a person who cannot be reasoned with like an adult. "Go cut me a switch" etc
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Feb 15, 2022 01:14
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Emond's Field likes to do it too. A misbehaving child? Hauled before the Women's Circle and switched
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Feb 15, 2022 01:29
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That's largely the case when it is used on Semirhage, and there's a heavy element of that in the White Tower's punishments for Novices. That doesn't mean that "you hosed up, now you get a beating" isn't a standard idea in the setting. As it was for much of the real world until (in historical terms) extremely recently. Many countries in what we now call "the developed world" freely used such punishments as part of their legal system until the middle of the last century. It has a childish connotation because the use of (far less severe) corporal punishment toward children has continued much longer than that used against adults, and has a fetish-y connotation because even that usage is dwindling rapidly, leaving kink and fetish stuff the most likely place a modern (in a developed country) is going to encounter it. At the time Jordan began the series, a huge majority of his audience would be familiar with the idea of childhood spankings even if they didn't experience themselves. Hell, at the time he began the series, it was still common enough that school safety classes would have phrases like "this is beyond any reasonable punishment" in regards to physical abuse.
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Feb 15, 2022 01:34
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Jordan also went to the Citadel, which might have been an influence here
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Feb 15, 2022 01:36
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yeah gotta say there was no point in the series where I thought wow this author is getting off on corporal punishment. mostly it fades out or it just talks about how much it hurts, it’s definitely how he thought about discipline but idk. I definitely DID get that sense from terry goodkind
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Feb 15, 2022 01:41
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Brolander posted:I feel like it's always supposed to be child's punishment, for a person who cannot be reasoned with like an adult. "Go cut me a switch" etc So what you're saying is they use it exactly how everyone else does. Frequent, heavy handed, and with plenty of "why did you have to be such a child as to drive me to this?"
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Feb 15, 2022 01:41
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i still don't know how i didn't recognise ishamael the first time i watched it hardly surprising he went full nihilist and wants to break the pattern after being forced to kill dogs while dying of radiation poisoning 
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Feb 15, 2022 03:05
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Did any of the Wheel of Time companion books ever estimate the populations of Seanchan or Shara? How can the Corenne afford to send all these tradesfolk to Ebou Dar and Tanchico without their economy collapsing? Or maybe their land weathered the breaking better than Randland and their society is more advanced and flourishing?
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Feb 15, 2022 03:07
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Gnoman posted:The impression I got from the show is that the Dragon has the same reputation and legacy that he does in the books, but none of it got brought up because it would screw up the "Who is it?!" mystery. When Moiraine tells the EF 4 that one of them is the Dragon in the pilot, though they're stunned by the implication, none of them take even a second to figure out what she means. It's pretty clear that everybody knows the legend of the dragon. What isn't known to anyone, Aes Sedai or not, is the details. In the same way that the books make a lot of hay around the fact that the prophecies can be translated many different ways to end up with all kinds of specific predictions of varying accuracy, the show is building the same ambiguity around the idea that while everyone knows the prophecy generally, nobody knows what exactly the specifics are.
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Feb 15, 2022 03:08
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