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"Everyone" is kinda overstating it. As depopulated as Donbass is, it would take thousands of buses to actually evacuate everyone. e.g. figure 50 people per bus --- 100,000 people would need 2000 buses. And there is a lot more than 100,000 there, though I don't know accurate numbers.
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Feb 18, 2022 15:54
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It doesn't really matter how many people are leaving. Putin isn't going to destroy these cities anyway. He just wants some footage of civilians fleeing the region to Russia.
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Feb 18, 2022 15:56
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OddObserver posted:"Everyone" is kinda overstating it. As depopulated as Donbass is, it would take thousands of buses to actually evacuate everyone. I don’t think anyone has accurate numbers. Most recent estimates I’ve heard were ~2.5 million in DNR and ~1.5 million in LNR.
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Feb 18, 2022 15:59
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Alchenar posted:Remarkable efficient government there to have an evactuation plan to move literally everyone to another country just sitting on the shelf there ready to be activated at a few hours notice. Apparently Rostov's leadership had no idea this was happening, so there are no evacuation centers set up to accommodate these people when they reach Russia.
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Feb 18, 2022 16:06
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Sir Bobert Fishbone posted:Apparently Rostov's leadership had no idea this was happening, so there are no evacuation centers set up to accommodate these people when they reach Russia. It's not like caring about wellbeing of people was ever a priority on Putin's mind or he would stop stuff like artillery shelling of civilian centers or shooting down planes.
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Feb 18, 2022 16:09
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Sir Bobert Fishbone posted:Apparently Rostov's leadership had no idea this was happening, so there are no evacuation centers set up to accommodate these people when they reach Russia. Thats a shame, it seems like Russia has no choice except to establish safezones in Ukraine so these people can return home
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Feb 18, 2022 16:10
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how fortunate that ukrainian soldiers recorded themselves committing an overt act of aggression and they magically dropped the helmet camera with the incriminating footage for enemy forces to find they've been so desperate to avoid giving russia any reason to invade and now russia has a reason to invade
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Feb 18, 2022 16:16
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https://twitter.com/MollyMcKew/status/1494673280237768704?s=20&t=fJvi5dZlF3EuRgwVrJv6jA
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Feb 18, 2022 16:18
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Mr. Sunshine posted:If you take a step back, this entire thing is so loving dumb. Russia has beef with NATO and the EU, so they're threatening to...invade Ukraine? just fucken lol it's so petty and childish. That's not how it's sold/spun IN Russia. Putin himself might be anti EU-fication, however for Russians NATO=U.S. Vast majority of Russians don't have any beef with EU. The conflict is strictly positioned as getting U.S. and its influence and "forces" out of Ukraine (with the message that the U.S. is of course planning to target Russia next). This is why U.S. deciding to get involved yet again directly is making things worse and exactly what Putin wanted. It would be better if Biden didn't feel the need to make any statements at all, making it look like every single political decision around the world must be blessed by U.S. first. European countries are in NATO too and should have all the focus on them, they should be leading whatever policy is needed here. 2014 was spun as U.S. trying to come into Ukraine to install a puppet government, so it's easy to keep following up on that message again, as long as U.S. does not let European countries lead all the efforts on aid, weapons, and sanctions. Rad Russian fucked around with this message at 16:32 on Feb 18, 2022 |
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Feb 18, 2022 16:19
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Sir Bobert Fishbone posted:Apparently Rostov's leadership had no idea this was happening, so there are no evacuation centers set up to accommodate these people when they reach Russia. Something tells me the evacuation part was improvised by Pushilin without sign off by Russia. He was clearly tasked to mirror American and EU reaction to a possible impending invasion of Ukraine with evacuating diplomats, etc., but went too far.
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Feb 18, 2022 16:30
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Sir Bobert Fishbone posted:Apparently Rostov's leadership had no idea this was happening, so there are no evacuation centers set up to accommodate these people when they reach Russia. Bold of you to assume they are ever meant to reach Russia.
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Feb 18, 2022 16:31
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CommieGIR posted:https://twitter.com/MollyMcKew/status/1494673280237768704?s=20&t=fJvi5dZlF3EuRgwVrJv6jA A literal paid propagandist for one of the parties of the conflict. Definitely who you should be taking your cues from.
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Feb 18, 2022 16:31
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Rad Russian posted:That's not how it's sold/spun IN Russia. Putin himself might be anti EU-fication, however for Russians NATO=U.S. Vast majority of Russians don't have any beef with EU. The conflict is strictly positioned as getting U.S. and its influence and "forces" out of Ukraine (with the message that the U.S. is of course planning to target Russia next). This is why U.S. deciding to get involved yet again directly is making things worse and exactly what Putin wanted. It would be better if Biden didn't feel the need to make any statements at all, making it look like every single political decision around the world must be blessed by U.S. first. European countries are in NATO too and should have all the focus on them, they should be leading whatever policy is needed here. I'd argue: Russia/Putin framed it this way exactly. They don't want to negotiate with the the EU or even European NATO countries. They want to negotiate with the US. That's the problem. Putin is framing it this way on purpose. And its a non-starter. Especially given that out of all these NATO countries, Russia has a history of post-justification of aggressive military actions against its neighbors, NATO does not. Zedhe Khoja posted:A literal paid propagandist for one of the parties of the conflict. Definitely who you should be taking your cues from. No, that's literally history. You are are arguing against recorded history and calling it propaganda. The source? Maybe. But the actual contents of what they are saying are true. quote:Nikolay Pankov, the Russian deputy defence minister, had a confidential meeting with the separatist authorities in Tskhinvali on 3 August.[142] An evacuation of Ossetian women and children to Russia began on the same day.[113] According to researcher Andrey Illarionov, the South Ossetian separatists evacuated more than 20,000 civilians, which represented more than 90 percent of the civilian population of the future combat zone.[143] On 4 August, South Ossetian president Eduard Kokoity said that about 300 volunteers had arrived from North Ossetia to help fight the Georgians and thousands more were expected from the North Caucasus.[144] On 5 August, South Ossetian presidential envoy to Moscow, Dmitry Medoyev, declared that South Ossetia would start a "rail war" against Georgia. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 16:42 on Feb 18, 2022 |
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Feb 18, 2022 16:35
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Saladman posted:Not to mention that the concept of a "buffer state" with modern technology is about as outdated as worrying about springtime mud. Yea, that's fair. It seems really snide to refuse to let Ukraine into NATO or the EU when their own population democratically voted for such an action but to only deny because Russia won't like it?
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Feb 18, 2022 16:43
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The woman you quoted was literally in the employ of Saakashvili at the time as a “narrative architect”.
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Feb 18, 2022 16:45
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Zedhe Khoja posted:The woman you quoted was literally in the employ of Saakashvili at the time as a “narrative architect”. But is anything in that tweet a lie? Again, the source may be an issue, but the statement is not.
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Feb 18, 2022 16:49
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I know trying to talk to sense to an idiot who volunteered to be a paid butcher for government propaganda is a fools errand but I’d have been crucified by my professors if I’d ever used a source like that.
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Feb 18, 2022 16:51
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Zedhe Khoja posted:I know trying to talk to sense to an idiot who volunteered to be a paid butcher for government propaganda is a fools errand but I’d have been crucified by my professors if I’d ever used a source like that. But again: I'm not writing a peer reviewed paper here, I'm asking you if that statement is false? I cited historical info showing its not. Your problem is the source? Or do you have a problem with the statement as well?
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Feb 18, 2022 16:53
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Zedhe Khoja posted:I know trying to talk to sense to an idiot who volunteered to be a paid butcher for government propaganda is a fools errand but I’d have been crucified by my professors if I’d ever used a source like that. Don’t sidestep the question. Were there civilian evacuations in the lead up to the Russian incursion in South Ossetia or not? As a poster educated by professors, I’m sure you’ll find it trivial to include a couple of independent, quality sources to back up your assertion.
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Feb 18, 2022 16:57
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The tweets of a government propagandist is not “historical info”.
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Feb 18, 2022 16:58
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Zedhe Khoja posted:The tweets of a government propagandist is not “historical info”. quote:Nikolay Pankov, the Russian deputy defence minister, had a confidential meeting with the separatist authorities in Tskhinvali on 3 August.[142] An evacuation of Ossetian women and children to Russia began on the same day.[113] According to researcher Andrey Illarionov, the South Ossetian separatists evacuated more than 20,000 civilians, which represented more than 90 percent of the civilian population of the future combat zone.[143] On 4 August, South Ossetian president Eduard Kokoity said that about 300 volunteers had arrived from North Ossetia to help fight the Georgians and thousands more were expected from the North Caucasus.[144] On 5 August, South Ossetian presidential envoy to Moscow, Dmitry Medoyev, declared that South Ossetia would start a "rail war" against Georgia. So who is your source? If you can demonstrate that this is false, I'm all ears. But given that Russia sure does seem to like doing military interventions against their neighbors, I don't think you have much a leg to stand on about "propaganda" CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 17:03 on Feb 18, 2022 |
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Feb 18, 2022 17:00
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GABA ghoul posted:https://twitter.com/rianru/status/1494639696235925521?t=EzSvufkTtapczMGRZXBBbw&s=19 Good to know that all the video games of my childhood are accurate and eastern europe has barrels of toxic and flammable gas just scattered around everywhere waiting for someone to shoot them.
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Feb 18, 2022 17:01
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Why is Putin hosting 'huge' nuclear drills?
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Feb 18, 2022 17:03
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Russian photo op of children being evacuated from Donetsk. https://twitter.com/GazetaRu/status/1494696096878276622
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Feb 18, 2022 17:04
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Because that's how demonstrations of power go. Again, there's no reason to believe Ukraine is going to turn into a nuclear exchange or a World War since both sides largely want to avoid that.
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Feb 18, 2022 17:04
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Paladinus posted:Something tells me the evacuation part was improvised by Pushilin without sign off by Russia. He was clearly tasked to mirror American and EU reaction to a possible impending invasion of Ukraine with evacuating diplomats, etc., but went too far. Yup. https://twitter.com/ichbinilya/status/1494679371352789002?t=frTP9hhSPgU1r2AnYhpSfQ&s=19
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Feb 18, 2022 17:06
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BoldFace posted:Russian photo op of children being evacuated from Donetsk. Orphans, no less.
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Feb 18, 2022 17:06
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Russia does actually do this pretty regularly. A bit of it is signalling but they really do care about testing nuclear readiness.
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Feb 18, 2022 17:06
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Alchenar posted:Russia does actually do this pretty regularly. A bit of it is signalling but they really do care about testing nuclear readiness. They do them annually, but in September.
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Feb 18, 2022 17:07
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cinci zoo sniper posted:They do them annually, but in September. That sounds really fuckin' expensive.
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Feb 18, 2022 17:08
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Redgrendel2001 posted:Yup. Speaking of taking stat propagandists at their words --- Peskov would claim that regardless of whether the order came from Russia or if it was someone "showing initiative".
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Feb 18, 2022 17:09
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Shes Not Impressed posted:Orphans, no less. If they aren't yet, that will be taken care of!
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Feb 18, 2022 17:12
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https://twitter.com/JakeSherman/status/1494705252645355524
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Feb 18, 2022 17:13
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I never disputed any claims made, in particular the idea that Russia evacuated civilians prior to the attempted Georgian reconquest of Tskhinvali. Massive casualties is a subjective phrase especially considering the small size of the territory. But Amnesty International wrote their own summary of Georgia’s behavior during the operation. You don’t need the mouthpiece of a criminal piece of poo poo declaring him to be TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY ABSOLVED. quote:The entry of Georgian ground forces into these villages, and into Tskhinvali itself, was preceded by several hours of shelling and rocket attacks as well as limited aerial bombardment. Much of the destruction in Tskhinvali was caused by GRADLAR MLRS (GRAD) launched rockets, which are known to be difficult to direct with any great precision. Eyewitness reports, the nature of the munitions used and the evidence of scattered destruction in densely populated civilian areas strongly suggest that Georgian forces committed indiscriminate attacks in its assault on Tskhinvali on the night of 7 August, causing deaths and injuries among South Ossetian civilians and considerable damage to civilian objects.
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Feb 18, 2022 17:15
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https://twitter.com/DeItaone/status/1494704648439144454 https://twitter.com/rianru/status/1494705082943873024 "A powerful explosion in the center of Donetsk, our correspondent reports" "The explosion thundered a few tens of meters from the building of the government of the DPR" https://twitter.com/ELINTNews/status/1494706047302443018 More explosions in Donetsk. e: https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1494707247020228610 Generation Internet fucked around with this message at 17:21 on Feb 18, 2022 |
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Feb 18, 2022 17:15
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Zedhe Khoja posted:I never disputed any claims made, in particular the idea that Russia evacuated civilians prior to the attempted Georgian reconquest of Tskhinvali. Massive casualties is a subjective phrase especially considering the small size of the territory. Cool, so no actual dispute of the information presented. Moving on.
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Feb 18, 2022 17:16
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CommieGIR posted:Cool, so no actual dispute of the information presented. Moving on. Your a loving grotesque. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 18, 2022 17:17
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Zedhe Khoja posted:I never disputed any claims made, in particular the idea that Russia evacuated civilians prior to the attempted Georgian reconquest of Tskhinvali. Massive casualties is a subjective phrase especially considering the small size of the territory. can you link that report?
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Feb 18, 2022 17:17
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Feb 18, 2022 17:18
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An explosion is being reported by pro-separatist media close to DNR's government building. Allegedly a bomb was detonated in a car in what appears to be an empty car park.
Paladinus fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Feb 18, 2022 |
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Feb 18, 2022 17:24
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