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Cav has always been trash tier in Total Warhammer's campaign  lovely charge bonus, 80% of the fights being on maps that invalidate cav. Sure, it's great in skirmish and pvp but there's a reason "no one builds cav in campaign" is a memeIf a cav unit has stats that make it good in a straight up fight then it's a good unit, but that doesn't make cav good. The reason I said they were "rules of thumb" is because "rule of thumb" is a phrase that means a generalized rule that applies broadly but there are always specific examples that don't follow the rule. Pointing out the exceptions that prove the rule doesn't really make rules of thumb invalid. Avoiding cav is still, IMO, a good idea especially with how many of the cav units in Warham3 are terrible traps, and I would advise someone who's just getting a feel for building army comps to avoid cav as a general rule - they can figure out the exceptions to the rule as they figure out the game. Warham 2 had an entire faction dedicated to Cav, and they had some great cav that was worth building in the campaign - but "avoid cav in campaign" is still 100% good Warham2 advice so  e: My main problem with Cav in WH3 is literally almost every single fight is a settlement battle consisting of long, winding, linear paths. Not only can Cav not charge in such short spaces, their ability to flank and outmaneuver is severely diminished. Ranged are extra important in WH3 IMO because in settlement battles they can shoot over your melee pushing down the linear pathway and still contribute to the fight, that pathway is only wide enough to hold 1-2 melee units. I guess Cav would be good for running past the fight and getting to cap points though, because fliers can't cap. Also the problem with the Cav Charge Bonus in WH is that charges are so weak that they don't push cav THROUGH units, which means the cav almost always gets tied up in melee and you have to spam click an empty area to get them to disengage. I guess this was changed in a TW2 patch last year to make cav push further into units but I don't know to what degree. That was a problem throughout both Warhammer 1 and 2 though as far as I remember it deep dish peat moss fucked around with this message at 22:23 on Feb 18, 2022 |
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Feb 18, 2022 22:05
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There are tutorial exclusive units? That's weird Also play Normal battle difficulty so you don't have to worry about the optimal way to play. Just have fun battles with cool diverse armies
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Feb 18, 2022 22:08
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If anyone is having frame rate trouble turning off the Razer boost stuff and updating my drivers fixed it
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Feb 18, 2022 22:12
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I dont think cav charges were always bad in warhammer, I think it was actually something that happened during warhammer 2's life cycle, I think because of the changes they made to unit mass. Particularly as regards infantry and knockdown and the difficulty of disengaging from fights. e: Like I remember with the Bretonnia DLC that even armies of lower tier Knights Errant and Knights of the Realm-based armies were perfectly capable of decisively defeating enemies on the charge, and even with their relatively poor charge and melee stats I managed to kind of do the thing that you'd do in Attila as Chaos with marauder horsemen and cycle-charging Empire armies to death. Randarkman fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Feb 18, 2022 |
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Feb 18, 2022 22:14
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tell me you play every campaign 30/70 ranged without telling me you always run 30/70 ranged Kidding aside a handful of cav is very useful in minor settlement fights because speed lets you claim open spots with a single unit quickly, speed lets you capitalize on smashing an exposed/over-extended unit, you can start them far from your main army and still get them to help with the fighting in a timely fashion, and they can retreat while drawing away the enemy. Any fast unit can do that but it just so happens cavalry are the default fast units. Cycle charge and flanking cav also do plenty of work. It's not like pausing the game and routing a medium-length line with some turns is complicated, you just can't have a big wave of 3+ cav roar through a city and crash into backlines. RIP City Sacker Mass Boar Boyz Greenskin strats. Also cavalry is totally viable or did we all collectively hallucinate our Brettonia campaigns? Maybe cav is really clunky at the moment because of some cavalry bugs, but there always seem to be cavalry bugs, don't there? The last big patch for WH2 was The Cavalry patch, a shame that didn't stick.
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Feb 18, 2022 22:19
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Doomykins posted:Maybe cav is really clunky at the moment because of some cavalry bugs, but there always seem to be cavalry bugs, don't there? The last big patch for WH2 was The Cavalry patch, a shame that didn't stick. It partly worked but not fully, it made cavalry charges better, though you still had great weapon infantry without charge defense performing better against cavalry when counter-charging, though I think they managed to stop them from winning if they were cycle charged. I don't know if that's in Warhammer 3, possibly not due to what I guess was parallel development of 3. There's also plenty of clues that there's some issues that occasionally affects not only cavalry but also fliers and others, something to do with animations it seems like.
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Feb 18, 2022 22:23
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I actually find cav very useful in minor settlement battles, but more so because the nature of the moba lanes means your cav cannot be surrounded assuming you're paying attention and it's pretty easy to get in there assuming there isn't a 20 stack there along with unfortunately sometimes the enemy just has a spear unit blocking a hallway and then welp, but otherwise they remain as good as ever i think cav bad meme for 2 is mostly because everyone in 2's roster baring I guess high elves has lackluster cav
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Feb 18, 2022 22:24
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Yeah I'm holding off on hot takes including my own on mechanics for a week or two because if literally every single DLC release is anything to go by people with totally arghy up any new mechanic and proclaim it busted
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Feb 18, 2022 22:26
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The optimal army composition is enough replenishment bonus to shrug off any losses short of a unit wipe.
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Feb 18, 2022 22:29
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SirPhoebos posted:The optimal army composition is enough replenishment bonus to shrug off any losses short of a unit wipe. This guy gets it.
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Feb 18, 2022 22:32
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While I get the criticisms about having cav heavy builds I don't get the super meme take on it because under normal morale conditions in the gameplay cav is a useful a poo poo tool for a bunch of reasons. When I have late game multi stacks I always prefer to have at least a smallish fist of high end cav (or fast moving war machines) on hand to match my large formations. I like em for... - Mobility - Influencing enemy formations/threat perception - Hitting soft points in the line - Pocket flanking - Sustaining enemy routs/spreading panic - Catching enemy cavalry - Ranged unit disruption - Artillery disruption - Flexible flank defense ... To name a few. Though I admit good use of cavalry is a lot of mobility micro, which is a lot to keep up with as a sole general also juggling spells, formations, idle units, etc. On wh2 coop I'd use my friends cavalry to cycle charge while nonstop sniffing for soft spots and often get highest kills. I'm pretty sure this is the play style for slaanesh and tbh that seems hard to do on my own.
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Feb 18, 2022 22:33
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SirPhoebos posted:The optimal army composition is enough replenishment bonus to shrug off any losses short of a unit wipe. the actual answer is this, which is why kislev not having a duelist hero is pretty tenable. until you face a khrone stack, lord
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Feb 18, 2022 22:35
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I was slow getting around to taking Praag and those ice towers do not gently caress around! Thought I could get away with rushing the walls and I watched several of my units just melt.
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Feb 18, 2022 22:35
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SirPhoebos posted:The optimal army composition is enough replenishment bonus to shrug off any losses short of a unit wipe. This has generally been my strategy. Also it lets you auto-resolve more without caring about casualties
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Feb 18, 2022 22:35
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I think I'd rather play a suboptimal but balanced army where I have different things to do, but I'm also not trying to play on the hardest difficulties. There are people who make doomstacks entirely out of single OP units and enjoy it so entirely depends on where you find the fun in TW.
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Feb 18, 2022 22:36
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Gamerofthegame posted:i think cav bad meme for 2 is mostly because everyone in 2's roster baring I guess high elves has lackluster cav Nah, there were legitimate mechanical issues that negatively effected the performance and utility of cavalry charges. However the thing is I'm pretty sure this was introduced during 2's lifecycle or at least exacerbated. Stats arent really the issue and there's plenty of factions in 2 with great cavalry, however the issues with cavalry performance limit how you use them and what makes a good cavalry unit. See bretonnia's best unit being the sustained melee questing knights, and empire knights finding a role as high-mass, high armor sacrificial roadblocks with cavalry speed.
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Feb 18, 2022 22:36
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How can I actually tell whether my yin and yang are balanced? I don’t see an obvious UI element anywhere, is it just a matter of manually counting ranged / melee units and trying to keep them roughly equal?
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Feb 18, 2022 22:36
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Frog Act posted:How can I actually tell whether my yin and yang are balanced? I don’t see an obvious UI element anywhere, is it just a matter of manually counting ranged / melee units and trying to keep them roughly equal? I think it’s one of the hold spacebar options - you can also toggle it to be visible all the time
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Feb 18, 2022 22:39
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I also think that the superheavy cavalry a lot of the warhammer 3 factions get access to (war bears, mournfang, bloodcrushers) are an entirely different equation than normal cav
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Feb 18, 2022 22:40
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okay, think I got the hang of kislev finally, and i'm enjoying it. Love all the new campaign map changes, like showing you when lord/heroes enter a province, what buffs they provide it display above them.
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Feb 18, 2022 22:42
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Does anyone know the button hide UI is now? It's not k anymore.
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Feb 18, 2022 22:44
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Frog Act posted:How can I actually tell whether my yin and yang are balanced? I don’t see an obvious UI element anywhere, is it just a matter of manually counting ranged / melee units and trying to keep them roughly equal? I think someone said earlier that you only need one ranged in your melee line for it to count, and flying units work.
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Feb 18, 2022 22:45
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Funky See Funky Do posted:Does anyone know the button hide UI is now? It's not k anymore. Well, I've been using K and it hides the UI
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Feb 18, 2022 22:46
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Griz posted:I think someone said earlier that you only need one ranged in your melee line for it to count, and flying units work. Captain Beans posted:I think it’s one of the hold spacebar options - you can also toggle it to be visible all the time Thanks! So it’s less about overall army composition and more about proximity
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Feb 18, 2022 22:48
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okay yeah, portals spawned. you absolutely want more than one army earlier into TWW3 !
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Feb 18, 2022 22:49
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Does the AI run the table on getting four souls in four attempts very often? I've only been through one round of rift openings and saw a few grab that while I didn't, and was just wondering if that's already a significant liability. Also can you grab multiple souls in the same round if you have multiple strong stacks?
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Feb 18, 2022 22:49
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How do snow leopards fare against armored chariots? I tried picking a fight with vampires and let the Norscans have some pressure taken off so now I've got two stacks with about 10 chariots each coming my way and I really don't have a good counter. Katarin has some ice guard glaives that she is bringing up but probably not fast enough.
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Feb 18, 2022 22:49
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Randarkman posted:Well, I've been using K and it hides the UI Maybe it just doesn't do it in the tutorial?
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Feb 18, 2022 22:51
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Funky See Funky Do posted:Maybe it just doesn't do it in the tutorial? Yeah, I think that might actually be a thing.
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Feb 18, 2022 22:53
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onesixtwo posted:okay yeah, portals spawned. you absolutely want more than one army earlier into TWW3 ! Imagine having enough income for multiple armies lmbo
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Feb 18, 2022 22:53
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Y'know, some days I like putting together interesting army compositions with lots of tools at their disposal, and some days I just want to see Bloodthirsters go brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
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Feb 18, 2022 22:56
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They got rid of the beautiful artwork on the settlement panel background, it's just plain red now  . Oh well, that's what mods are for. Haven't tried other factions extensively yet and I'm enjoying Cathay, but I agree that these factions aren't as interesting to me as the previous ones. For a game I'll probably be playing for the next 5 years though, there's plenty of room for more stuff.
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Feb 18, 2022 22:58
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Sinteres posted:Does the AI run the table on getting four souls in four attempts very often? I've only been through one round of rift openings and saw a few grab that while I didn't, and was just wondering if that's already a significant liability. Also can you grab multiple souls in the same round if you have multiple strong stacks? In my campaign I've gotten 3 in 3 attempts and only 1 of the AI factions have also done that (but this is on normal, so YMMV). The 4th growl is supposed to happen in a few turns so we will see if the AI manages to go 4 for 4. As far as I know you can not double up on souls. It seems to only give you the option to close other gates after you enter one.
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Feb 18, 2022 23:00
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See I think this is the most interesting faction lineup of all the games, the two previous games had at least one faction I had no interest in (dwarfs and empire in 1, high elves in 2) while for this one Im genuinely interested in all of them.
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Feb 18, 2022 23:01
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Sinteres posted:Does the AI run the table on getting four souls in four attempts very often? I've only been through one round of rift openings and saw a few grab that while I didn't, and was just wondering if that's already a significant liability. Also can you grab multiple souls in the same round if you have multiple strong stacks? The first rift opening on my campaign ended up with 4 factions not getting a soul. Two of those I ran into in Khorne's realm and defeated there, one I happened to defeat the LL's stack in the world map at the right time to screw him over, and only one seems to have "naturally" failed without me directly knocking them out. So I think the odds are pretty good that at least one faction will succeed 4/4 attempts if they happen to choose different realms than you each time, so taking the payout from Slaanesh probably means having to do the extra battles to stop other faction(s) from beating the campaign before you.
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Feb 18, 2022 23:01
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I did an imrik 18 dragon prince stack once and it works pretty great against AI in campaign because they never surround their ranged units with melee charge defenders, it just took way too much micro to keep up.
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Feb 18, 2022 23:03
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The 4% upkeep change to VH makes raising multiple armies a breeze, they've gotta be practically free on E/N/H. Always be taking/sacking cities and winning fights. A. B. C. A ALWAYS BE B C COLLECTING SKULLS. THAT BLOOD'S NOT FOR YOU, THAT BLOOD'S FOR CLOSERS!!
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Feb 18, 2022 23:05
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The mono-god chaos faction rosters aren't very expansive, eh? Also, you can make all kinds of fun gimmick builds work in TWW, especially with the right lords/items/traits, no need to minmax every single lord. Edit: Not really feeling the factions so far, maybe they'll grow on me over time Broken Cog fucked around with this message at 23:09 on Feb 18, 2022 |
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Feb 18, 2022 23:06
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Ravenfood posted:How do snow leopards fare against armored chariots? I tried picking a fight with vampires and let the Norscans have some pressure taken off so now I've got two stacks with about 10 chariots each coming my way and I really don't have a good counter. Katarin has some ice guard glaives that she is bringing up but probably not fast enough. Armored chariots are my least favorite unit type to fight. Their armor, loose formation, and speed means ranged fire is generally ineffective in the time you have before they close with you, and the AI really wants to keep them moving so they do a whole lot of disruption through into your backlines and are hard to pin down long enough to kill. My only tactic is to just tarpit them with cheap spear units and basically ignore them until the end of the battle. I think snow leopards would probably end up just chasing the chariots around very inefficiently since they don't have the unit size or mass to force them to stop moving.
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Feb 18, 2022 23:06
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Also, there seems to be talk about a pretty severe bug going around, where dismissing lords doesn't actually remove their upkeep/supply chain effect. Anyone noticed any of that?
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Feb 18, 2022 23:09
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