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My biggest hopes for future seasons are Grog shopping and Grog "pooping" while Scanlan keeps watch.
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Feb 21, 2022 00:57
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wokow6 posted:I've played in a number of full chaotic parties before... They don't tend to be that fun, at least not for long. No, obviously the problem was that you didn't have enough chaos. 
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Feb 21, 2022 01:11
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Phylodox posted:No, obviously the problem was that you didn't have enough chaos. A couple of those look like they're trying way too hard to be funny.
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Feb 21, 2022 01:39
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Dawgstar posted:Honestly you could boil it down to Jester and Nott the Brave* and just rotate anybody else in and out for me. The thing is, a C2 cartoon is the first time you'd definitely have to recast one of the main cast. I suppose mmmmaybe you could justify Sam playing Nott, but BIG SPOILERVeth is a different story, I don't think the thing of keeping the voice the same works when you can see her
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Feb 21, 2022 03:38
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There's also the bit where Taliesin never really did figure out how to do Molly's accent. Although he wouldn't have to do it for long either 
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Feb 21, 2022 03:49
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I don’t have a ton to add, but as a Critical Role Enjoyer I super enjoyed season 1 and I’m excited about what they have in store for season 2.
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Feb 21, 2022 03:50
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CuwiKhons posted:There's also the bit where Taliesin never really did figure out how to do Molly's accent. Although he wouldn't have to do it for long either That was more a function of most of the cast going subtle on accents in the first session... except the Bailey-Willinghams, who just went straight to 11 and everyone else eventually had to shrug and just keep up.
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Feb 21, 2022 03:59
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I mean, I also have to think they're smart enough to recast Beau in that scenario.Hieronymous Alloy posted:the most original is basically "hamlet, but with a gun"
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Feb 21, 2022 04:18
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Gaz-L posted:The thing is, a C2 cartoon is the first time you'd definitely have to recast one of the main cast. I suppose mmmmaybe you could justify Sam playing Nott, but BIG SPOILERVeth is a different story, I don't think the thing of keeping the voice the same works when you can see her Why?
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Feb 21, 2022 08:46
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SirSamVimes posted:Why? Veth is a darker skinned character
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Feb 21, 2022 15:50
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Recast the role, just have Sam provide the screams. Mild spoilers for C2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irXZwpC3U_U I had no prior idea that this video existed but, knowing CR fans, wasn't surprised to find it e. that is unfortunate green face in that thumbnail... Hulk Smash! fucked around with this message at 16:04 on Feb 21, 2022 |
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Feb 21, 2022 16:00
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This is a conversation about a theoretical cartoon that would be like 7 seasons out from now but I think it's worth saying that there's a huge difference between Matt choosing not to be the voice for one NPC out of his numerous NPCs, who happens to be a character of color, no matter how much he likes that character, versus saying that the characters that Sam and Marisha created and played as once a week for several years should be voiced by someone else. I would in no way expect them to recast Nott or Beau.
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Feb 21, 2022 16:04
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The Repo Man posted:Veth is a darker skinned character Uh, maybe I'm stupid, but what would be the problem?
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Feb 21, 2022 16:37
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YggdrasilTM posted:Uh, maybe I'm stupid, but what would be the problem? CR's already come under fire for some things related to race, whether one agrees with the argument or not, and that's not a fire you want to dump more fuel on.
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Feb 21, 2022 17:05
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I was actually meaning the gender aspect, more. It's not any more appropriate for Sam to play Veth than for Matt to play Allura in that sense. But yes, the racial identity side also complicates it more.
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Feb 21, 2022 17:41
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Gaz-L posted:I was actually meaning the gender aspect, more. It's not any more appropriate for Sam to play Veth than for Matt to play Allura in that sense. But yes, the racial identity side also complicates it more. Beau also needs to be recast.
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Feb 21, 2022 17:48
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Gaz-L posted:But yes, the racial identity side also complicates it more. I... still don't get it? Why?
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Feb 21, 2022 17:49
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YggdrasilTM posted:I... still don't get it? Why? Remember when they cast Scarlett Johansen to play an Asian robot lady? End of the day there aren't as many roles for people or color as there are for white people, and even fewer for women or color. Plus if white people are doing brown characters there's the risk of it looking like blackface even when not intended that way. E.g., you can't watch the d&d episodes of Community now because Ken jeong did full body drow makeup and it looked bad. So it's a potential minefield and CR may be smart to avoid it by recasting.
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Feb 21, 2022 18:12
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I don't think Beau or Veth will be recast because they are the voice actors' own characters and had voiced them for years with decent talent. It'd be like if Bart Simpson's voice actress had to be changed because a girl is voicing a boy. The situation would be different if the characters were brand new. Matt did the right thing about recasting the numerous NPCs he used to voice with people who were more suited for the role, especially with Gilmore who was an opportunity to get someone much more appropriate to play a Middle East/Africa inspired merchant. At most they're probably going to go through consultants to make sure they're doing it right and that would be about it.
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Feb 21, 2022 18:26
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While I get that I've also participated, the theoretical recasting of roles in a hypothetical new series with an entirely different set of characters while the current series doesn't yet have enough ordered seasons to tell the main story of campaign 1 seems like a topic that'll bring more heat than light. In a desperate flail for a new topic, I've talked a fair amount in thread about what I thought went well with adapting the story and why. The biggest area where I think they dropped the ball is one that's been mentioned by many who didn't watch campaign 1: Scanlan. I didn't care a ton for Scanlan while watching the stream, particularly early on. For me his spice, kaylee, and departure arcs adding depthn weren't what changed my tune(heh) on him, but rather his character's evolution out of the one note(heheh) stereotype he'd played int something more well rounded and integrated with the group. What I did appreciate about Scanlan from the jump was his utility as a vehicle for Sam's humor and creativity, particularly with the quick song parodies when casting inspiration. I see two reasons this failed to translate to the show. The obvious is licensing and breaking the 4th wall: parodies of songs and artists who don't remotely exist in universe. The more critical fail was that for me, I enjoyed the songs (usually 2 or 3 lines at most, think his door unlock rather than "pull my beads") breaking some tedium and bringing energy to a multihour slog--and later in the stream, breaking heavier tension. For the show, it felt as if they decided that they (and fans) liked Sam singing and some of the best parodies were filthy, so Sam singing is going to be a crucial part of his character from the jump. I'd suggest that if even 5% of a stream episode consisted primarily of Sam's songs, it'd be loathed. Worse than a shopping trip, and yet the first 3 episodes feature two instances of more singing at once than we saw at any point in the stream despite the condensed and timeconstrained format. What I'm wondering is if Scanlan could have been reconfigured for the start with knowledge of where he ends up? What would have made for a more compelling, less irritating character?
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Feb 21, 2022 18:53
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Remember when they cast Scarlett Johansen to play an Asian robot lady? About the rest, blame my small restricted Italian point of view, I suppose.
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Feb 21, 2022 18:55
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Paracaidas posted:Scanlan stuff
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Feb 21, 2022 19:09
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One thing I think hurts Scanlan is not being able to see Sam's expressions while he does Scanlan things. Honestly there could just be a camera devoted to Sam's facials on CR's streams and that could be all you need to watch. I was watching a bit from season 2 of the stream when two characters finally decided to go on a date and the lightbulb that went off over Sam's head when he thought of a way to mess with it (in a fun way) was great.
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Feb 21, 2022 21:25
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I really can't emphasize enough that they would not recast Beau and Nott. Recasting NPCs is natural because Matt can't actually voice every single NPC in the cartoon without it being a joke. Beau and Nott belong to Marisha and Sam. They don't have any other characters to play. Those are the characters they made. We can have a conversation about how appropriate it is or isn't for them to have made those characters (I think it was fine, for the record, TTRPGs are a space to explore being something other than what you are) but they did makes those characters so that's who they'll play.
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Feb 22, 2022 00:16
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Dawgstar posted:One thing I think hurts Scanlan is not being able to see Sam's expressions while he does Scanlan things. Honestly there could just be a camera devoted to Sam's facials on CR's streams and that could be all you need to watch. I was watching a bit from season 2 of the stream when two characters finally decided to go on a date and the lightbulb that went off over Sam's head when he thought of a way to mess with it (in a fun way) was great. Watching Sam's face when he realizes that (Spoilers for both campaigns 1 AND 2!) Viridian was Keyleth's mother was loving amazing.
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Feb 22, 2022 03:26
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Finally getting to the last episodes and just two things that kind of bothered me. One, the SFX around Percy's gun were distractingly bad to me. Sounded like infinite cocking even when he was just moving it around. Two, I wish the animation budget allowed for more frames. Also I think the point about Scanlan hitting different in the show because it was condensed compared to the stream where he was much more spaced out is pretty apt. e: I think the point applies to Grog as well in the sense that he shines best when he has the space to not be so flatly one dimensional. Dameius fucked around with this message at 04:52 on Feb 22, 2022 |
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Feb 22, 2022 04:04
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Having seen exactly 0 minutes of any of the podcast, I enjoyed the show. I don't quite get why there's two different "spellcaster who struggles with their magic working" characters but at least one of them has got it figured out. Didn't like Kyeleth very much, loved Grog, and loved the interaction between the lady twin (Vex?) and Percy in the latter half of the season. The "growing to leadership" sort of arc felt reasonable, even with it ending up that Percy didn't really want the mantle long term. Scanlan was fine, Vax was fine (loved the failed lockpick rolls), Pike was fine for the part of the season she had anything going on (she spent SO LONG in the temple), overall enjoyed the party and plot. Is season 2 more of the same characters? People are talking about campaign 2 being different?
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Feb 22, 2022 05:17
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Skyl3lazer posted:Is season 2 more of the same characters? People are talking about campaign 2 being different? Season 2 is the same cast picking up with the cliffhanger, yeah. This first season covers (roughly) about episodes 24-39 of the first campaign, plus some extras from before the game was streamed. In total that campaign runs 115 episodes, so there's a lot to pull from. Campaign 2 is an entirely new group of characters called The Mighty Nein, a new continent, and a bit of a time jump after c1 ends. It's got 141 episodes to it, so definitely its own beast.
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Feb 22, 2022 05:35
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Skyl3lazer posted:Is season 2 more of the same characters? People are talking about campaign 2 being different? Season 2 is the same characters. Campaign one was 115 episodes in total, the Briarwood arc, which season one of The Legend of Vox Machina is based on, was 15 episodes. Campaign 2 is indeed different characters, but who knows if they will animate any of it.
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Feb 22, 2022 05:36
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Hulk Smash! posted:To me the biggest miss for animated Scanlan is that he didn't really have an arc this season. CR watcher know he's got one coming in later seasons but I feel it was a mistake to have him start and end as basically a conduit for dick jokes. This is where deviating from the stream would have benefited the character, I think. Even Vex and Vax's arcs this season, as small as they were, felt more impactful. Dameius posted:Also I think the point about Scanlan hitting different in the show because it was condensed compared to the stream where he was much more spaced out is pretty apt. Agreed on the animation too--nothing felt overly wrong to me, it's just... unremarkable? A few standout moments but nothing visually I've commented on either way when recommending the show to folks. Skyl3lazer posted:Having seen exactly 0 minutes of any of the podcast, I enjoyed the show. I don't quite get why there's two different "spellcaster who struggles with their magic working" characters but at least one of them has got it figured out. Didn't like Kyeleth very much, loved Grog, and loved the interaction between the lady twin (Vex?) and Percy in the latter half of the season. The "growing to leadership" sort of arc felt reasonable, even with it ending up that Percy didn't really want the mantle long term. Scanlan was fine, Vax was fine (loved the failed lockpick rolls), Pike was fine for the part of the season she had anything going on (she spent SO LONG in the temple), overall enjoyed the party and plot. At some point I'll wind up on a flight or insomniaing hard and I'll rewatch with a particular eye on the casters because you raise an interesting point. Thinking through it, it felt like the dark magic among the whitestone brigade was all extremely reliable which was a heavy contrast to Keyleth and Pike in particular... I'm wondering if the show does enough on its own to show whether the difference is strength or source--are the Briarwoods AND their flunkies on a higher tier than Vox Machina or is natural and holy harder than unnatural and unholy? Skyl3lazer posted:Is season 2 more of the same characters? People are talking about campaign 2 being different? The "campaign 2" talk is about after that, featuring new characters (the Mighty Nein, don't try and count) on a different continent in the same world, about 25 years after they finished the Vox Machina story. Then again, since they've declared Legend of Vox Machina a new canon/its own canon/extremely Concepcion voice Wiiiiide canon, they may well decide it's easier to continue telling new Vox Machina stories than start a brand new series, if things go well enough for either to be an option. I'd guess Amazon would prefer that.
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Feb 22, 2022 07:17
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As someone who never watched CR and loved the show, Scanlan is the worst character since Jar Jar Binks. I think that appears in every negative review I've been seeing. I can easily see people who are unfamiliar with CR being turned off and never watching the show after episode 1 solely because of Scanlan. Non stop sex jokes at completely inappropriate times that not only are cringey but deflate the mood of the setting. Him making sex jokes while Briarwood rebels are sacrificing themselves for him is completely repugnant. He ruins the big fight with lurch by blasting him with a dick beam before doing a middle finger exit that a 13 year old would come up with. Percy is having a huge moment for his character lashing out at the Briarwoods outside of the palace, meanwhile they shoot to two different Scanlan anal bead jokes. The finale shows him in a way better light but man does he suck the air out of the show if you're not used to him.
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Feb 22, 2022 07:33
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Doltos posted:As someone who never watched CR and loved the show, Scanlan is the worst character since Jar Jar Binks. I think that appears in every negative review I've been seeing. I can easily see people who are unfamiliar with CR being turned off and never watching the show after episode 1 solely because of Scanlan. Not a CR watcher and only saw the show but he was alright with me. Think the first or second episode with the “rap” was the only time Scanlan made me groan. Could easily see him grating with more airtime but enjoyed his solo mission episode and made me respect the character more. He may be an annoying perv but at least he can get poo poo done. Jar Jar did nothing but make stupid noises and decisions and made every episode he was in poo poo. Hated the end of a cool antagonist in Clone Wars was also a Jar Jar ep. JarJar did not get poo poo done… except help the Space Nazis win because he sucked THAT bad. Really enjoyed the show and even though the simple animation was fun in a retro way. Would have loved the piss watching this show after school on toonami or adult swim back in the 00s. Some of the humour reminded me of Korgoth of Barbaria in a good way. Vex failing the pick lock made me laugh so hard. Kinda wish Percy had kept Orthax (sp?) a bit longer as that smoke and mask looked really cool. Weirdly all of the characters grew on me with Grog still my favourite. His jumping in acid naked was metal as fuq. He didn’t even know anyone would heal him… just jumped in to get the mission done. Metal! Shocked they didn’t have a mage type but this thread made me glad they didn’t include the sorcerer. Hoping the bear in armour pet does more next season. 100% looking forward to more. DogsInSpace! fucked around with this message at 08:20 on Feb 22, 2022 |
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Feb 22, 2022 08:16
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Dragonstoned posted:The only thing he would have brought to the fight was a bunch of mirrors I know this is a well known in joke but what ever became of the mirror hoarding? Did it just get dropped or did Orion go "I build a deathlaser" and Matt said "roll for it" and he rolled a 1 and all the mirrors shattered
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Feb 22, 2022 10:21
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That happened in Orion's last episode so it didnt come up again after Matt pointed out there was no loving way he was going to find a thousand mirrors in one medieval city, even a magical one. Edit - if you didnt watch that episode, it'd be easy to think we're exaggerating when we say 'a thousand mirrors' and Orion just said he wanted a lot of them. We're not exaggerating. Orion had looked up the suggested price of a small mirror in the player's handbook, did the math, and asked for one thousand of them. Matt was understandably incredulous. CuwiKhons fucked around with this message at 10:45 on Feb 22, 2022 |
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Feb 22, 2022 10:39
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CuwiKhons posted:Edit - if you didnt watch that episode, it'd be easy to think we're exaggerating when we say 'a thousand mirrors' and Orion just said he wanted a lot of them. We're not exaggerating. Orion had looked up the suggested price of a small mirror in the player's handbook, did the math, and asked for one thousand of them. Matt was understandably incredulous. I figured this one is worth showing, because it's an extremely Gamer moment. https://youtu.be/2mB-aM2bIBk?t=8687 Travis' headshake when Orion asks is pretty great. (As a warning this is Orion's last episode and things get really awkward down the line. It's got the bit where he tries to leverage his background by calling in troops he would not have access to.)
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Feb 22, 2022 16:22
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DogsInSpace! posted:Not a CR watcher and only saw the show but he was alright with me. Think the first or second episode with the “rap” was the only time Scanlan made me groan. Could easily see him grating with more airtime but enjoyed his solo mission episode and made me respect the character more. He may be an annoying perv but at least he can get poo poo done. Jar Jar did nothing but make stupid noises and decisions and made every episode he was in poo poo. Hated the end of a cool antagonist in Clone Wars was also a Jar Jar ep. JarJar did not get poo poo done… except help the Space Nazis win because he sucked THAT bad. There's obvious differences in the characters, of course, but I don't see how making Scanlan the most powerful person in the party makes him better. It's the same problem as Keyleth ruining every fight by being super timid/cowardly before blasting off a deux ex machina spell. Their characters are drags, why should I cheer for them?
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Feb 22, 2022 17:15
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Scanlon gets better. All of Season 1 is him pre character development.
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Feb 22, 2022 17:23
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This is going to be a show that benefits enormously from bingeing. Given that it's an adaptation of a much longer story, they have the benefit of knowing all of the character beats and arcs in advance, so they can plan things out and play the long game much better. Yeah, Scanlan's a bit rough at first and Keyleth and Grog might feel underdeveloped, but I think the show has enough charm to coast through that, especially since they're already guaranteed a second season.
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Feb 22, 2022 17:29
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Doltos posted:There's obvious differences in the characters, of course, but I don't see how making Scanlan the most powerful person in the party makes him better. It's the same problem as Keyleth ruining every fight by being super timid/cowardly before blasting off a deux ex machina spell. Their characters are drags, why should I cheer for them? I have often read this type of criticism toward character that are unpleasant or cowardly or weak. I don't know, I'm the only one who like this type of character because they have a huge chance to grow and improve?
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Feb 22, 2022 19:50
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Keyleth is a character who was always designed to have a very, very long character arc and slow growth. Marisha planned her that way. Keyleth has sort of mentioned her "Aramente" on the show but didn't go into a lot of depth - it's a pilgrimage that any potential druidic leader has to make to the other druid tribes around the world in order to prove herself worthy to lead. What she didn't mention was that it can be really dangerous. Keyleth wasn't the first choice for her tribe, but the actual first choice has been missing and presumed dead for years now so they kind of went "Welp, Keyleth, you're up next I guess." Keyleth's also the second youngest member of the group (Percy's the actual youngest in terms of years but Keyleth is the youngest in terms of emotional maturity. She's only older than him because she's a half-elf so she ages a bit slower) and it definitely shows in terms of her panicking and not knowing what to do in a lot of situations. She gets more confident as the series progresses but at a fairly realistic pace for a young adult slowly learning to become a decisive leader. Keyleth's a character you have to be willing to play the long game with and if you don't like characters like that, you might never like her. Scanlan and Grog get more abrupt character arcs where something major happens that changes them quickly, rather than gradual growth.
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Feb 22, 2022 23:38
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