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Majorian posted:Another truly bizarre "intelligence leak" that the media is reporting uncritically: This is just insultingly shameless. Yeah we've got proof the Russians are rubbing their hands together with glee and saying 'god I can't wait to start exterminating vulnerable minority populations! drat I love being an implacable evil!' no you're not allowed to see it. shut up. Get printing, word boy.
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Feb 21, 2022 07:42
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You appear to be unfamiliar with current and past Russian activities toward these groups in both Russia and the occupied territories.
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Feb 21, 2022 07:46
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some plague rats posted:This is just insultingly shameless. Yeah we've got proof the Russians are rubbing their hands together with glee and saying 'god I can't wait to start exterminating vulnerable minority populations! drat I love being an implacable evil!' no you're not allowed to see it. shut up. Get printing, word boy. Because they already do that at home and everywhere they occupy.
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Feb 21, 2022 08:01
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Discendo Vox posted:You appear to be unfamiliar with current and past Russian activities toward these groups in both Russia and the occupied territories. Do you think Russia plans to occupy Ukraine and do what that letter claims they're going to do? If so, why?
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Feb 21, 2022 08:02
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Discendo Vox posted:You appear to be unfamiliar with current and past Russian activities toward these groups in both Russia and the occupied territories. i'm sorry what
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Feb 21, 2022 08:14
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ofc Bellingcat knows all about these "mass graves" and the GRU officers who are creating this "atrocity"... https://twitter.com/AricToler/status/1495536097245470721?s=20&t=GyyrFSIvnWv07V7iU2DvYg
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Feb 21, 2022 08:15
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Majorian posted:Do you think Russia plans to occupy Ukraine and do what that letter claims they're going to do? If so, why? Because they have already done it in the parts they invaded in 2014
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Feb 21, 2022 08:24
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Despera posted:Because they have already done it in the parts they invaded in 2014 And in Georgia in 2008
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Feb 21, 2022 08:26
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Despera posted:Because they have already done it in the parts they invaded in 2014 Do you have evidence that they literally created concentration camps in Crimea in 2014? Because that's what the letter says they're going to do in Ukraine once they occupy the country.
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Feb 21, 2022 08:27
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Despera posted:Because they have already done it in the parts they invaded in 2014 There are concentration camps for LGBTQ people in Crimea? I'll be honest, that passed me by. You got some sources on that?
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Feb 21, 2022 08:32
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Majorian posted:Do you have evidence that they literally created concentration camps in Crimea in 2014? Because that's what the letter says they're going to do in Ukraine once they occupy the country. Yep its not very hard to find either
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Feb 21, 2022 08:32
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Despera posted:Yep its not very hard to find either Okay, great, please post it then.
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Feb 21, 2022 08:32
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They dont have camps for LBGQT they just kill them on the streets
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Feb 21, 2022 08:33
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What's the significance of the Zs marked on the Russian vehicles? Also, when talking of the cost of keeping all these forces mobilized, you gotta figure in the toll this poo poo takes on the troops. You can't just shove 150000 soldiers into frontline positions and have them living in tents and trenches out in the snow and rain indefinitely.
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Feb 21, 2022 08:35
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Some people have mentioned that Germany should be using Nordstream 2 as a bargaining chip. Thing is, it's not just Germany's decision at this point. The European Commission has to agree to the project and it doesn't seem very likely at this point with Poland and the Baltics having a say. AFAIK the Commission can legally refuse the project on the ground of 'energy security', i.e. basically for no reason at all. Gazprom reducing gas deliveries this winter was probably an attempt to garner support for NS2 in all of Europe but my impression is that it mostly did the opposite.
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Feb 21, 2022 08:35
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Despera posted:Yep its not very hard to find either Majorian posted:Okay, great, please post it then. Despera posted:They dont have camps for LBGQT they just kill them on the streets Just sprinting desperately into the distance clutching the goalposts
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Feb 21, 2022 08:36
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Despera posted:Yep its not very hard to find either Despera posted:They dont have camps for LBGQT they just kill them on the streets You have made quite strong claims here and also stated evidence is easy to find. Please provide some evidence to support your claims.
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Feb 21, 2022 08:38
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GABA ghoul posted:Some people have mentioned that Germany should be using Nordstream 2 as a bargaining chip. Thing is, it's not just Germany's decision at this point. The European Commission has to agree to the project and it doesn't seem very likely at this point with Poland and the Baltics having a say. AFAIK the Commission can legally refuse the project on the ground of 'energy security', i.e. basically for no reason at all. Gazprom reducing gas deliveries this winter was probably an attempt to garner support for NS2 in all of Europe but my impression is that it mostly did the opposite. NS2 is finished and just needs to be turned on. It's going to happen whether you want it or not
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Feb 21, 2022 08:39
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Mr. Sunshine posted:What's the significance of the Zs marked on the Russian vehicles? Ukraine and Russian use similar equipment and vehicles. Marking your vehicles a certain way is an attempt to reduce friendly fire incidents. GABA ghoul posted:Some people have mentioned that Germany should be using Nordstream 2 as a bargaining chip. Thing is, it's not just Germany's decision at this point. The European Commission has to agree to the project and it doesn't seem very likely at this point with Poland and the Baltics having a say. AFAIK the Commission can legally refuse the project on the ground of 'energy security', i.e. basically for no reason at all. Gazprom reducing gas deliveries this winter was probably an attempt to garner support for NS2 in all of Europe but my impression is that it mostly did the opposite. NS2 stops in Germany and is mostly a joint Russian/German venture. While the Germans may take in consideration what the EC has to say, the final decision lies with them.
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Feb 21, 2022 08:41
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It's not concentration camps but it's not a secret that Russia repressed the LGBTQ population of Crimea heavily. https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-russia-drove-crimeas-lgbt-community-underground https://time.com/3482205/crimea-gay-community-flees-russian-homophobia/ Tortured for being gay: https://khpg.org/en/1536007330 https://en.hromadske.ua/posts/how-lgbt-people-are-treated-in-russia-occupied-territories
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Feb 21, 2022 08:42
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I tried googling the Russian concentration camps in Crimea and found one article from aljazeera about separatists imprisoning people in Donbask that consisted entirely of interviews with like two guys and offered no evidence of Russian involvement beyond "yeah they totally knew and supported it because of course they did, it's obvious"
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Feb 21, 2022 08:43
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Majorian has added the word "concentration" to the claim, which is why it's now being leaned on, and the linked washington post article also links information on the same activities from the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights.
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Feb 21, 2022 08:43
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Majorian posted:Okay, great, please post it then. Im sure the guy who killed a british homeless person while killing a dissedent in broad daylight surely wont take revenge when he takes the ukraine 65 journalist abuducted sent to camps/killed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_portrayal_of_the_Ukrainian_crisis#cite_note-KHPG150606-394 Russia media lol https://twitter.com/ignis_fatum/status/1494131756399738885
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Feb 21, 2022 08:44
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HonorableTB posted:It's not concentration camps but it's not a secret that Russia repressed the LGBTQ population of Crimea heavily. No one is under the impression that Russia is good to LGBT people. Only a loving idiot would say that. But a bunch of gay bars closing down is a pretty far cry from the actual, literal concentration camps that steinrokken and despera were claiming they're running?
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Feb 21, 2022 08:45
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some plague rats posted:No one is under the impression that Russia is good to LGBT people. Only a loving idiot would say that. But a bunch of gay bars closing down is a pretty far cry from the actual, literal concentration camps that steinrokken and despera were claiming they're running? But it is indicative of how readily able that repression is. I'm not saying they're holocausting LGBTQ people, I'm saying that there is a definite and deliberate repression campaign that did not exist in Crimea under Ukrainian administration
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Feb 21, 2022 08:48
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some plague rats posted:No one is under the impression that Russia is good to LGBT people. Only a loving idiot would say that. But a bunch of gay bars closing down is a pretty far cry from the actual, literal concentration camps that steinrokken and despera were claiming they're running? you have hbo max?
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Feb 21, 2022 08:50
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HonorableTB posted:I'm not saying they're holocausting LGBTQ people, Okay but other people were so I'm not sure who you're arguing with?
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Feb 21, 2022 08:50
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some plague rats posted:No one is under the impression that Russia is good to LGBT people. Only a loving idiot would say that. But a bunch of gay bars closing down is a pretty far cry from the actual, literal concentration camps that steinrokken and despera were claiming they're running? I would invite everyone involved in this discussion to take a moment and reset. State your arguments clearly and ideally with some sourcing. edit: some plague rats posted:Okay but other people were so I'm not sure who you're arguing with? I am fairly confident nobody has claimed a holocaust of LBTQ people. Please engage with the specific claims being made.
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Feb 21, 2022 08:51
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2KMm49B6pE
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Feb 21, 2022 08:51
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some plague rats posted:Okay but other people were so I'm not sure who you're arguing with? I'm arguing that despite that one poster being blatantly exaggerative about camps for journalists and queer people etc, they are not entirely wrong about the treatment that LGBTQ people will be experiencing under Russian rule. I disagree with the hyperbole but the point I think they are trying to make is that if you're queer, you're hosed in the event of a Russian invasion and occupation
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Feb 21, 2022 08:52
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quote:Russia media lol they've been saying poo poo like that on russian state media daily since like 2015 lol, this isn't really a development
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Feb 21, 2022 08:52
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Fritz the Horse posted:I checked and neither Despera nor steinrokkan has used the language "concentration camps." The US claim was that the Russians were planning to round up random minorities and either execute them immediately or put them in camps. The claim was made that they're already doing this and have been since 2014. No evidence of that has been provided?
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Feb 21, 2022 08:54
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Huh weird how posters generating outrage about Biden's concentration camps are suddenly policing the usage of the term unless the holocaust is happening. Real strange going ons in our cozy good faith debate threadGABA ghoul posted:Some people have mentioned that Germany should be using Nordstream 2 as a bargaining chip. Thing is, it's not just Germany's decision at this point. The European Commission has to agree to the project and it doesn't seem very likely at this point with Poland and the Baltics having a say. AFAIK the Commission can legally refuse the project on the ground of 'energy security', i.e. basically for no reason at all. Gazprom reducing gas deliveries this winter was probably an attempt to garner support for NS2 in all of Europe but my impression is that it mostly did the opposite. I am under the impression that it's now under the bureaucracy of the German legislators and they are aiming for a review until the second half of 2022. So it's still up to the German government but they can either accelerate it or drag it out (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 21, 2022 08:55
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some plague rats posted:The US claim was that the Russians were planning to round up random minorities and either execute them immediately or put them in camps. The claim was made that they're already doing this and have been since 2014. No evidence of that has been provided? I mean if you want me to go through every ukrainain who was rounded up in 2014 and either beat the poo poo out of in prison or killed this could take awhile
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Feb 21, 2022 08:56
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i say swears online posted:NS2 is finished and just needs to be turned on. It's going to happen whether you want it or not Dick Ripple posted:NS2 stops in Germany and is mostly a joint Russian/German venture. While the Germans may take in consideration what the EC has to say, the final decision lies with them. No, the EU gas directive applies to NS2. This is a change away from Merkel's policy (who planned to fight it in court) and explicitly stated in the coalition agreement e: to clarify, the 2019 EU gas directive is what gives the Commission power over gas pipelines into the EU
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Feb 21, 2022 08:56
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An out of context or unexplained youtube link is not helpful. If you are going to link a youtube video or a tweet etc, please provide some context as to how it supports the argument you are making. To the thread as a whole: please rein in poo poo-posting and address the actual arguments being made. If posters are unable or unwilling to support their claims, that may be cause for moderation. Similarly, if posters are misrepresenting or twisting the statements of otherse, you may also catch a probe. e: Somaen posted:Huh weird how posters generating outrage about Biden's concentration camps are suddenly policing the usage of the term unless the holocaust is happening. Real strange going ons in our cozy good faith debate thread knock this poo poo off. final warning. engage with the posts made itt or take a break. Fritz the Horse fucked around with this message at 08:58 on Feb 21, 2022 |
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Feb 21, 2022 08:56
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Somaen posted:Huh weird how posters generating outrage about Biden's concentration camps are suddenly policing the usage of the term unless the holocaust is happening. Real strange going ons in our cozy good faith debate thread What does this have to do with the topic this thread is about? Nobody's talking about Biden or ICE and they aren't relevant to this discussion
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Feb 21, 2022 08:57
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Fritz the Horse posted:An out of context or unexplained youtube link is not helpful. If you are going to link a youtube video or a tweet etc, please provide some context as to how it supports the argument you are making. It's lliterally a documentary where homosexuals are beaten and killed in the streets with video
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Feb 21, 2022 08:57
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Despera posted:It's lliterally a documentary where homosexuals are beaten and killed in the streets with video It would have been great if someone had put what the video was at the time they linked it. Nobody's gonna click on a no context random YouTube link, come on.
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Feb 21, 2022 08:59
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Despera posted:It's lliterally a documentary where homosexuals are beaten and killed in the streets with video In Chechneya?
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Feb 21, 2022 09:01
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