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Fruits of the sea posted:I think it has a lot more to do with relative wealth and level of education. Case in point: England making a big noise about welcoming Hong Kong residents.
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Feb 22, 2022 12:49
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Willo567 posted:I get people being worried about a big war, but calling it WW3 is really hyperbolic and dangerous as poo poo How is it dangerous? That possibility has been expressly removed from the table by anyone able to bring that about, outside of maybe Russia.
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Feb 22, 2022 12:51
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Russian MoFA has published a chaser for Putin’s meltdown. https://www.mid.ru/ru/foreign_policy/news/1799883/
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Feb 22, 2022 12:54
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pippy posted:How is it dangerous? That possibility has been expressly removed from the table by anyone able to bring that about, outside of maybe Russia. Because there a lot of people who don't normally follow Eastern Europe politics who are now because of the crisis, and people talking about WW3 alongside the crisis to those uninformed just brings out more misinformation. Also why would Putin want to start WW3?
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Feb 22, 2022 12:55
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Gort posted:Wonder if Germany will turn its nuclear reactors back on, that'd help As long as they don't gently caress around with the Winden plant
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Feb 22, 2022 12:56
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cinci zoo sniper posted:Your country is absolutely not entering the conflict to any extent more substantial than sending some rockets via PostNord. If only, then they wouldn't arrive  We've already ordered KDS Esbern Snare to Russian waters, so it may not be our decision any longer.
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Feb 22, 2022 12:58
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There's one semi-major Polish political party that speaks out openly against Ukrainian immigration, and they have 5-8% of the vote at best. Nobody cares about refugees as long as they're not brown.
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Feb 22, 2022 13:01
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where can i watch putins crazy rant w subtitles?
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Feb 22, 2022 13:01
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Ukrainians will have an easier time integrating into society because of their whiteness, Ukrainians will maybe get away with some nasty remarks every now and then until it's forgotten and they're integrated properly. This is something that middle easterners can never properly do because no matter what they do they're perceived as others because of the colour of their skin. I know people that have lived here they're entire lives that still feel othered and discriminated against just because their parents are middle easterners. I've also known people with eastern european parents that suffer no discrimination whatsoever.
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Feb 22, 2022 13:02
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EU has a sanctions vote scheduled for this "afternoon". Preliminary expectations are that Hungary may derail it.Tias posted:If only, then they wouldn't arrive I think you're sensationalizing the situation around whatever your navy is doing.
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Feb 22, 2022 13:02
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Willo567 posted:Also why would Putin want to start WW3? There’s no rational reason. But yesterday’s Putin speech didn’t sound very rational. And prior major conflicts started small with nobody involved /intending/ to start a wider word war. It’s hard to speculate on the downside risks of the current situation without tumbling down a ClancyPost slippery slope. I respect that the media and posters ITT would all do best to avoid it, at the same time I believe the unlikely nightmare scenarios all got a little more likely over the past 24 hours.
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Feb 22, 2022 13:03
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cinci zoo sniper posted:EU has a sanctions vote scheduled for this "afternoon". Preliminary expectations are that Hungary may derail it. There is some interesting stuff in there, hope they make it through the Commission. Among them there is a ban on trading Russian state bonds and sanctions against 350 of the Duma members who voted for recognition.
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Feb 22, 2022 13:06
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cinci zoo sniper posted:EU has a sanctions vote scheduled for this "afternoon". Preliminary expectations are that Hungary may derail it. Not as such, I'm just saying placing our warship in Russias path may lead to shooting if that's how Russia plays it.
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Feb 22, 2022 13:06
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bump_fn posted:where can i watch putins crazy rant w subtitles? I'm only seeing mediocre dubs so far.
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Feb 22, 2022 13:08
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coelomate posted:There’s no rational reason. But yesterday’s Putin speech didn’t sound very rational. And prior major conflicts started small with nobody involved /intending/ to start a wider word war. Do you honestly think Putin wants to be living in a nuclear wasteland? Putin is a criminal and a horrific piece of absolute dog poo poo, but he isn't irrational, and I don't think he's going to nuke anyone for loving sanctions
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Feb 22, 2022 13:10
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Tias posted:If only, then they wouldn't arrive I mean, Denmark is probably going to be providing some materiel and logistics support by way of NATO but a worst case scenario of shots being fired would be a gently caress up by everybody involved and lead to a lot of patriotic rhetoric but not much else. E: A Buttery Pastry posted:English politicians. The English Brexit voters are not fans of replacing Polish immigrants with non-European immigrants. Yeah, I didn't make the distinction clear enough Fruits of the sea fucked around with this message at 13:15 on Feb 22, 2022 |
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Feb 22, 2022 13:13
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Kamrat posted:I know people that have lived here they're entire lives that still feel othered and discriminated against just because their parents are middle easterners. I've also known people with eastern european parents that suffer no discrimination whatsoever. That's true about second generation, especially if they have an "acceptable" first name, place of birth, language skills, accent and passport (the more of the listed the better). But first generation migrants can have a harder time, particularly if they have trouble with the local language. Private Speech fucked around with this message at 13:18 on Feb 22, 2022 |
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Feb 22, 2022 13:13
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Fruits of the sea posted:I mean, Denmark is probably going to be providing some materiel and logistics support by way of NATO but a worst case scenario of shots being fired would be a gently caress up by everybody involved and lead to a lot of patriotic rhetoric but not much else. That's my hope as well, but it's pretty hard to get any solid information at the moment.
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Feb 22, 2022 13:14
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If Putin's worldview is that Russia is already under attack from a West that is determined to strip away its clients and collapse the state then his calculation of when to use force is going to be very different from what anyone in this thread assumes is sensible.
Alchenar fucked around with this message at 13:20 on Feb 22, 2022 |
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Feb 22, 2022 13:15
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e: double post somehow
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Feb 22, 2022 13:15
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That's because nothing has happened yet. I mean, there's lots of reason to worry but it should be directed at Ukrainian citizens and turbofucking our energy economy/inflation.
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Feb 22, 2022 13:16
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Tias posted:That's my hope as well, but it's pretty hard to get any solid information at the moment. Dude. Our dumb scandinavian countries are NOT getting into a shooting war over this. Even if they shoot at your dumb boat. Randarkman fucked around with this message at 13:26 on Feb 22, 2022 |
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Feb 22, 2022 13:23
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Alchenar posted:If Putin's worldview is that Russia is already under attack from a West that is determined to strip away its clients and collapse the state then his calculation of when to use force is going to be very different from what anyone in this thread assumes is sensible. What type of force would be the most likely?
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Feb 22, 2022 13:26
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I think the racism towards Ukrainians in Poland is not as strong as towards, say, muslims or people with dark skin. When it shows up, it’s more along the lines of “they should speak out language in a public place!” and most of the time I see Ukrainians in Warsaw being really quiet. The thing is Ukrainians are pretty much indistinguishable on the street from Poles, and they’re no pushovers either, and the local pato-patriots tend to go after women or men who are alone or visibly unable to defend against a larger group. Ukrainians have lived and worked here for many years, and you don’t hear much about their criminal activities , unlike other nationalities from middle Asia. I would’ve overestimate the amount of resentment for Ukrainian WWII atrocities. I myself come from a half-Polish, half-Ukrainian family, where the Polish side was murdered by the Ukrainian side, save for a for children that ran away in time, and absolutely no one harbors resentment to modern day Ukrainians for it, even if they have opinions (tm) about Banderism.
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Feb 22, 2022 13:29
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bump_fn posted:where can i watch putins crazy rant w subtitles? Official Russian transcript is here: http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/transcripts/67828 Not to downplay how unhinged the speech was, but Is this the reference to hunting people down everyone was talking about? it's pretty specifically not about hunting down undesirables or even Ukrainian leadership. Vladimir Vladimirovich posted:One shudders at the memories of the terrible tragedy in Odessa, where peaceful protesters were brutally murdered, burned alive in the House of Trade Unions. The criminals who committed that atrocity have never been punished, and no one is even looking for them. But we know their names and we will do everything to punish them, find them and bring them to justice.
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Feb 22, 2022 13:32
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The first bulleted companion article "How much Russian money is there in the UK?" made me chuckle.
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Feb 22, 2022 13:39
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CommieGIR posted:This isn't going to happen, there is no nuclear strategy to the ongoing Ukraine crisis. Then why are people so worried about the situation escalating into WW3, and calling Putin unhinged?
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Feb 22, 2022 13:40
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Willo567 posted:Then why are people so worried about the situation escalating into WW3, and calling Putin unhinged? Because media wants clickbait. No one sane is worried about this escalating in WW3.
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Feb 22, 2022 13:41
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Flavahbeast posted:The thing is, a lot of them truly believed that the threat of Putin invading was nonsense drummed up by Biden. Some are re-evaluating things after his speech today. Joe Biden the president who ended the forever war over the objections of half the generals as secret warmonger never made any sense and the people who thought it did can be safely ignored.
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Feb 22, 2022 13:43
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:A quick and dirty google search suggests Ukraine probably does have them and they aren't a signatory to any bans on using them, which given the current situation was probably the smart (if morally unpleasant to high-minded types not facing a Russian invasion) decision. Ukraine is a signatory to the Ottawa treaty against anti-personnel mines, but Russia is not. So Russia uses a lot of them, and at the very least Ukrainian soldiers have been known to use more improvised mining with grenades and such, and less than thorough previous compliance with destruction requirements would not be surprising.
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Feb 22, 2022 13:45
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I was the one expressing incredulousness at Britain and other western powers actually putting their money where their mouth is. I’ll admit this is a good start. Hopefully they continue to clamp down on the dirty money. We’ll see
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Feb 22, 2022 13:54
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PIZZA.BAT posted:I was the one expressing incredulousness at Britain and other western powers actually putting their money where their mouth is. I’ll admit this is a good start. Hopefully they continue to clamp down on the dirty money. We’ll see The cynical choice is to just shift more of their banking and golden visa schemes to the British Overseas Territories. It's not hard, the Caymans and Virgin Islands are already doing a lot of business with foreign money.
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Feb 22, 2022 14:02
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peej posted:Official Russian transcript is here: The original discussion was prompted by this tweet: OddObserver posted:Can folks confirm this quote: I'm checking the original video in Russian now, and Ben was either served a lovely translation, or was deliberately misquoting Putin. The transcript is accurate, in literary sense. That said, Putin's presented account of clashes in Odessa is a very deliberate misrepresentation of events, which is why I reckon that no one who watched this in Russian was particularly contesting that tweet, as functionally that still is a list of targets, and Russian authorities will easily fabricate everything else they need for making the ends of their own narrative meet. Just as they've done for decades domestically and in ealier conflicts. cinci zoo sniper fucked around with this message at 15:18 on Feb 22, 2022 |
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Feb 22, 2022 14:02
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As in, it’s very reasonable to expect that minister of interior at the time, and a list of other arbitrary figures related to the revolution or early government, will be the “responsible criminals” here.
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Feb 22, 2022 14:04
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Yeah it's a bit of 'if you have names of rioters responsible for deaths and evidence proving guilt, why aren't you just naming names and sharing it?'
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Feb 22, 2022 14:06
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Fruits of the sea posted:I think it has a lot more to do with relative wealth and level of education. Case in point: England making a big noise about welcoming Hong Kong residents. That's exactly what it was - noise. The current UK government of Boris Johnson is literally as reliable and trustworthy as Donald Trump's government was. That's not an exaggeration. They won't actually do anything about, well, anything, just like they didn't actually do anything about Hong Kong residents Re: Russia, would be nice to have some proper UK sanctions against Russia over Ukraine, but the likelihood of that is pretty much zero, given that rich Russians own huge chunks of the country, of London and of the Conservative Party. Putin also conducts his "let's murder dissidents" operations in London with complete impunity, see e.g. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-56695489
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Feb 22, 2022 14:08
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Willo567 posted:Because there a lot of people who don't normally follow Eastern Europe politics who are now because of the crisis, and people talking about WW3 alongside the crisis to those uninformed just brings out more misinformation.
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Feb 22, 2022 14:10
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Are there reliable print transcripts of the speech around yet? I found I didn't much want to watch Putin as he spoke.
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Feb 22, 2022 14:10
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PIZZA.BAT posted:I was the one expressing incredulousness at Britain and other western powers actually putting their money where their mouth is. I’ll admit this is a good start. Hopefully they continue to clamp down on the dirty money. We’ll see If the Tories can get more money out of this than what Putin is currently ''gifting'' to the Conservative Party then they will go for it, a win, win for them. 
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Feb 22, 2022 14:11
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Willo567 posted:Then why are people so worried about the situation escalating into WW3, and calling Putin unhinged? Because clickbait. The US and NATO have already said they are not going to militarily intervene in Ukraine's favor. Putin's speech was unhinged because of the premise and things he said, not because he threatened nuclear war.
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