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steinrokkan posted:My geography teacher was a former Colonel in the communist army, he served with rapid deployment units that would have been first on the frontlines, before even the Soviets. He always said that the Warsaw pact armies were never much more than ablative armour to eat the brunt of the NATO response and let the Soviets get to their positions with fewer losses; and that the population of the vassal States was never part of the equation. If the armies did their job (to die in nuclear fire), the will of the non military population would be of no consequence. Nonetheless, despite being entirely Cognizant of his role as a forlorn hope unit in the case of a war, he said he was ready to follow orders. Yeah, there's a Soviet plan called "Seven Days To The River Rhine" where it's predicated on the idea that Poland attacks Germany, gets nuked, which causes the Soviets to launch a counterattack on NATO bases in Europe, along with civilian population centers. Czechs and Hungarian mechanized infantry jumps into loving nuclear craters and radioactive rubble to take the cities, while Russians in their NBC-sealed armor races to get to the French banks of the Rhine.
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Feb 23, 2022 10:21
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Despera posted:It's one little historical curiosity to wonder if the Warsaw Pact would actually fight if WWIII started. Would the Red Army keep enough control over the populace to force them to fight NATO? This reminds me that when Warsaw Pact were planning for the invasion of Czechoslovakia in 1968, the pro-Kremlin Czechoslovak communists had to ask for the exclusion of East German forces from the invasion force because many still had livid memories of German soldiers occupying their country. Brezhnev agreed to this as the NVA tanks were already warming their engines.
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Feb 23, 2022 10:27
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While it's useful to speculate on whether a more inclusive policy towards Russia from the west and NATO would have made a difference after the fall of the USSR, I think its unrealistic to expect politicians to base their decisions on the potential geopolitical ramifications 20-30 years further on. That's just not how geopolitics work because election cycles and short-term political crises take priority.
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Feb 23, 2022 10:33
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My take on this whole discussion is: 1) If the Soviet Union under Gorbachev had survived, we would not be in this mess. 2) If Ukraine had actually been a member of NATO, we would not be in this mess. Personally, I blame Yeltsin for this entire clusterfuck.
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Feb 23, 2022 10:37
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Mr. Sunshine posted:My take on this whole discussion is: We would just be in some other mess, marginally better or worse.
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Feb 23, 2022 10:41
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Ola posted:One wonders which computer game it would most resemble, Microprose's F-19 Stealth Fighter or Fallout. I think it have been more like Theatre Europe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theatre_Europe
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Feb 23, 2022 10:42
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https://twitter.com/EspresoTV/status/1496417325909782528
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Feb 23, 2022 10:43
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Also the USSR tried to join NATO, maybe Putin just really doesn't like rejection. Yeah the US/NATO really hosed up with the minsk agreements. Having Ukraine be a very limited nuclear power might have changed Putins calculus. Saying the Ukraine wont join NATO if you respect its soverignty doesnt work if you have no intention for letting the Ukraine join NATO.
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Feb 23, 2022 10:45
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Sucks that the UK is doing bugger all to limit the Oligarchs in their locality but a member of parliament just named all 34 of them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iPHGB8zJzM
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Feb 23, 2022 10:47
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Ola posted:One wonders which computer game it would most resemble, Microprose's F-19 Stealth Fighter or Fallout. Maybe https://www.freegameempire.com/games/Twilight-2000 Currently we are headed towards S.T.A.L.K.E.R. 2: Heart of Chernobyl, though.
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Feb 23, 2022 10:52
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In a shocking surprise, it turns out the alleged Ukrainian IED attack in separatist territory was fabricated (GRAPHIC) https://glasnostgone.org/2022/02/22/in-ukraine-russia-uses-corpses-in-false-flag-attack/ Patrick Lancaster, who has been paling around with separatists since 2014, filmed the scene, including the skull of one of the "victims" who forensic experts I've spoken to say is from an autopsy cut by a bone saw, and definitely not shrapnel from an IED: (GRAPHIC) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvxtJ6JnHF0 So that's the separatists using corpses to create false flags. Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 10:59 on Feb 23, 2022 |
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Feb 23, 2022 10:53
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Brown Moses posted:I] Which was another thing included in the recent American intelligence leaks. Incredible, it seems the is nothing the separatists managed to keep secret Also I like the "stupid video game steamer face" thumbnail on a video manufacturing pretext for a loving war
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Feb 23, 2022 11:00
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Brown Moses posted:In a shocking surprise, it turns out the alleged Ukrainian IED attack in separatist territory was fabricated (GRAPHIC) Haha, that is definitely sawed. Medical cadaver?
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Feb 23, 2022 11:04
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Young Freud posted:And at least 2 of them had some bad run-ins with the Soviet Union while being part of the Warsaw Pact, too. 3 of them. There was a worker uprising in the early 50s in East Germany. The Soviets crushed that one with tanks, too.
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Feb 23, 2022 11:05
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Mr. Sunshine posted:My take on this whole discussion is: As we've been discussing, the Warsaw Pact was perfectly capable of having a little invasion between friends.
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Feb 23, 2022 11:09
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Wuxi posted:Outside of the immediate impact the war will have on Ukraine, Russia proving that giving up your nukes for concessions is pointless is the biggest downer of this. I hope Russia gets a nose so bloody that smaller states realize that they don't need nukes to deter aggression. Or maybe the international pressure will amount to something. I doubt it will, but I hope it does something. Gaddafi's Libya already tested and proved that hypothesis in one direction, while Apartheid South Africa tested and proved the hypothesis in the other direction. I also hope the war doesn't extend beyond Donbas, but that's looking increasingly unlikely. I'm surprised we haven't seen a formal Russian announcement for Ukranian forces to leave "occupied independent Donbas", but maybe they're still working on the wording of the declaration of war past the line of actual control. I'm surprised that Putin only supported the legal boundaries of Donbas so far, and not a "greater Donbas" that includes everything east of the Dneiper, plus the Odessa area and the full Black Sea coast. Maybe he doesn't think he can take that much? Or maybe he just thinks the frog in boiling water trick will continue to work.
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Feb 23, 2022 11:13
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What a youtube thumbnail  You probably don't even need autopsy expert to see that skull is clearly cut around the gunshot wound, there is even example right on 'Gunshot wound' wiki article 
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Feb 23, 2022 11:14
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I mean, that was something which Gorby explicitly tried to rectify... For which he was promptly purged. So yeah, I think it's fair to say that the Soviet Union couldn't exist absent of the threat of violence against is imperial subjects. Both its political cadres and its material conditions required it to maintain it. So lamenting the failure of Gorbachev's vision for the USSR is understandable, but it was never going to happen.
steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 11:18 on Feb 23, 2022 |
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Feb 23, 2022 11:15
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Just Another Lurker posted:Sucks that the UK is doing bugger all to limit the Oligarchs in their locality but a member of parliament just named all 34 of them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iPHGB8zJzM I'm pretty sure Margarita Simonyan (who runs RT) and Mikhail Mishushtin (who's the current Russian PM) aren't hanging around London at the moment. Pretty sure that's just a list of sanctioned individuals she got off Wikipedia or some such.
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Feb 23, 2022 11:24
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Brown Moses posted:Patrick Lancaster, who has been paling around with separatists since 2014, filmed the scene, including the skull of one of the "victims" who forensic experts I've spoken to say is from an autopsy cut by a bone saw, and definitely not shrapnel from an IED: (GRAPHIC) We are now in the era of getting news/journalism from Youtube Thumbnail Face I don't like it
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Feb 23, 2022 11:28
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Despera posted:Also the USSR tried to join NATO, maybe Putin just really doesn't like rejection. You probably mean Budapest Memorandum here. Minsk Agreements were Russia’s attempt to pretend it’s not a party to war in Ukraine, and to coerce West into forcing Ukraine to concede to Russia.
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Feb 23, 2022 11:43
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steinrokkan posted:Which was another thing included in the recent American intelligence leaks. Incredible, it seems the is nothing the separatists managed to keep secret “Guys, GUYS, this is ABSOLUTELY poggers” *camera pans to hospital being hit by full frontal Grad fire* On a more serious note, does anyone know any Simon Ostrovsky-style correspondents to follow this time?
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Feb 23, 2022 11:51
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https://twitter.com/antontroian/status/1496426736925483012?t=oKzrN6abuN1fp-ZLs-b0Jg&s=19 What is even Ukraine? There is no way to know for sure. Could be anything. Small, big, something in-between. We just don't know 
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Feb 23, 2022 11:55
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Is Ukraine even a real country anyway? Lets cut back to
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Feb 23, 2022 11:59
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GABA ghoul posted:https://twitter.com/antontroian/status/1496426736925483012?t=oKzrN6abuN1fp-ZLs-b0Jg&s=19 This is a signal for Poland to demand the territories gifted by Stalin back 
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Feb 23, 2022 12:02
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Well that's a horror model for 'how do you occupy a country as big as Ukraine?' Break it up into eight different republics.
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Feb 23, 2022 12:06
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GABA ghoul posted:https://twitter.com/antontroian/status/1496426736925483012?t=oKzrN6abuN1fp-ZLs-b0Jg&s=19 Very tempted to make a map of Russia with "gifts from Mongol khans" and "Ukrainian colonies".
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Feb 23, 2022 12:09
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Sounds like Ukraine has powerful friends and controls the strings of everybody from tsars to Stalin himself. Better not toy with such an immense shadow powercinci zoo sniper posted:Very tempted to make a map of Russia with "gifts from Mongol khans" and "Ukrainian colonies". We've been over this, that would be a concerning and uncalled for breach of decorum
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Feb 23, 2022 12:11
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All of eastern Europe is just viking trade outposts and Fenno-Ugrian hunting lands.
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Feb 23, 2022 12:11
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 It seems that USA was just a fever dream and doesn't exist!
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Feb 23, 2022 12:14
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Nenonen posted:This is a signal for Poland to demand the territories gifted by Stalin back This is what Russia would love to happen but there’s absolutely zero need in Poland for getting these lands back.
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Feb 23, 2022 12:18
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Nenonen posted:All of eastern Europe is just viking trade outposts and Fenno-Ugrian hunting lands. A gift from the Neanderthals really. I would go as far as to say that no homo sapiens state in eastern Europe is legitimate
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Feb 23, 2022 12:19
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GABA ghoul posted:https://twitter.com/antontroian/status/1496426736925483012?t=oKzrN6abuN1fp-ZLs-b0Jg&s=19
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Feb 23, 2022 12:28
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cinci zoo sniper posted:Very tempted to make a map of Russia with "gifts from Mongol khans" and "Ukrainian colonies".  Big thanks to Grandpa Vova for setting the international defense discourse at Paradox forums level
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Feb 23, 2022 12:30
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It's not really super useful as a comeback bc Russian nationalists just say yeah but we won that in a war or whatever
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Feb 23, 2022 12:34
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fatherboxx posted:
 Between this and https://twitter.com/Nilsbern/status/1496277496119144448 I can only ask myself how it's just 1pm. For actual thread content, Presidents of Poland and Lithuania are in Kyiv today. https://twitter.com/PR24_pl/status/1496431831276732421 Also, noble FSB troopers were able to stop a terror plot organized by Ukrainian Right Sector Nazi Jehovah's Witnesses with pagan rune tattos. https://twitter.com/Liveuamap/status/1496440521153298441
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Feb 23, 2022 12:42
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Lum_ posted:I'm pretty sure Margarita Simonyan (who runs RT) and Mikhail Mishushtin (who's the current Russian PM) aren't hanging around London at the moment. Pretty sure that's just a list of sanctioned individuals she got off Wikipedia or some such. Was only thinking in terms of seizing all their assets in the UK. 
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Feb 23, 2022 12:46
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cinci zoo sniper posted:On a more serious note, does anyone know any Simon Ostrovsky-style correspondents to follow this time? Seconding this question and also goddamn, what happened to Vice News? it was actually good for a while there.
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Feb 23, 2022 12:47
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Brown Moses posted:In a shocking surprise, it turns out the alleged Ukrainian IED attack in separatist territory was fabricated (GRAPHIC) come crosspost this in the cspam eurasia thread, mate (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 23, 2022 12:57
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Guardian had an article that Russian troops on the other Ukrainian borders are gonna have to move in or pull back to better facilities soon bc they're just kinda camped out in fields rn Is there a good daily overview of the artillery situation on the line of contact?
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Feb 23, 2022 13:00
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