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As a GM, it can be hard to frame scenes that are realistic, fit into the fiction, but could realistically involve everyone. “Someone wants to do a drug deal outside the city“. Even with an extreme amount of contrivance, there is a limited number of PCs who would be invited. There’s also the time and balance going on. PBTA can run combat a lot faster than other systems, but a running gun fight and the aftermath, and a visit to your mother don’t have the same narrative heft. (I was in a Cartel session where the person making drugs accidentally started fist fight, which elevated into gunplay and took up half the session. Meanwhile my character was trying to open up a crooked orphanage.) Another example: I was co-running a 10 person Masks game and had a wizard send one of the less busy players magically to the other table. “A portal opens up and you’re sent from the planet mars and end up wherever they are.” (I believe someone else got sent back later with a “Reality hyper inducer.”) Because of the genre, you can say “Next page, we have a splash panel where you guys are gathered together, distrustful but trying to make up.” But when you’re going for gritty modern, powerful and manipulative, it’s hard to get everyone together often. Change one of those factors and it’s easier.
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Jan 31, 2022 00:02
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I'm surprised no one has mentioned PC-NPC-PC triangles yet, because ime that's the best way to keep PCs in each other's orbits. Our last campaign was on a space station and there wasn't really anything stopping someone from hopping on a ship and peacing out except for their social entanglements. For example: The Battlebabe was loving/sheltering the Brainer on the run from the crime family who made him a Brainer. The Gunlugger dropped a dime on him because she thinks he was a literal devil and got him killed by the Faceless. He then came back as a Macaluso, and the Gunlugger has accepted that trying to airlock a body-hopper would probably involve an excessive amount of murder and has resigned herself to watching him like a hawk. The Macaluso goes out of his way to be nice to her because he's a giant troll. The Gunlugger still doesn't know that one of his bodies is the person she runs a food cart with. The Medic and Gunlugger are drinking buddies who occasionally dispose of dead bodies for each other (such as the late Faceless). They drink at the Maestro'D's place. They have no idea that the Hardholder has been paying the Operator to spy on them; this would lead to a major blow-up with the Maestro'D if he found out because his establishment's rep is built on privacy and discretion This is only 2 seasons' worth of shenanigans and I haven't even mentioned the Hardholder or Saavyhead yet. AW is best when it's a soap opera with shotguns Xand_Man fucked around with this message at 00:49 on Jan 31, 2022 |
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Jan 31, 2022 00:44
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Deniable Assets is adding to my wishes of games that I know I'll never be able to play, because it would be so fun to run a Lobotomy Corporation game(or something set in the Project Moon setting) in that.
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Feb 2, 2022 00:56
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Just had a weird thought and I need some expert PBTA advice: does any PBTA game exist that is based on K-Dramas? Specifically, one that successfully mimics the manic, constantly escalating pacing they have? Basically, something that plays out a little like this joke: (any games that properly mimic this pacing are of interest to me to be clear, not just k-dram centric stuff. I'm curious to see how various designers have tried to ensure players stay on a total rollercoaster!)
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Feb 2, 2022 07:03
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Feels like three episodes of passion De passionès.
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Feb 2, 2022 07:11
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My group played our first PbtA game yesterday with World Wide Wrestling 2e and everyone had a lot of fun. We intentionally didn't do the Run-in move to avoid complicating our first session, but is there any other way to feel like more people are involved in scenes? Run more tag-teams and Royal Rumbles for larger groups? I assume most other PbtA games are different just due to the constraints of wrestling matches.
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Feb 13, 2022 17:56
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Vadun posted:My group played our first PbtA game yesterday with World Wide Wrestling 2e and everyone had a lot of fun. Also try adding more faction stuff so you justify having more characters around during singles matches, even if they aren't running in. Still, it's always going to be a problem with the genre. It's why WWW encourages players not involved in a match to act as announcers.
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Feb 13, 2022 18:17
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Ah, dudes working the crowd from outside the ring, trying to add complications, yeah that'd fit. Thankfully people really got into the announcer side of things. So we'd have 2 players engaged doing the wrestling bits, one announcing. Didn't need to much input from Creative outside of setting interviews and the like, the matches themselves seemed to flow just fine.
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Feb 13, 2022 18:22
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Lumberjack match?
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Feb 13, 2022 18:30
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Interference should be good in your second session, it only comes up once or twice unless things get really weird.
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Feb 13, 2022 18:40
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Lumberjack match is a good idea too. Am I right in assuming that a Creative should never really make a move unless the action stalls? Does narrative control pass in any situations outside Interrupt or Comeback moves?
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Feb 13, 2022 20:04
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Vadun posted:Lumberjack match is a good idea too. Creative can also make a move if they get a golden opportunity. Which is often just reintegrating something from earlier in the episode or previous one in the way that makes it makes sense. It’s completely fair for creative open an episode by explaining there are going to be beat the clock matches, a new faction, or “real life” factors that affect the wrestling. Generally people pass narrative control if they control three segments in a row, but that’s courtesy and not a rule.
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Feb 14, 2022 08:48
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Kinda related to a question I asked before, but frustration with Stonetop's insistence on using HP made me wonder what everyone's favorite 'harm' system they've encountered in a PbtA game.
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Feb 23, 2022 16:40
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I'm fond of Master of the Elements - when you "harm" somebody, they get a fictional tag, like "encased in ice" or "thrown overboard" or something. NPCs are disabled by 1 tag, PCs are disabled at 3. Getting out of a tag is purely fiction oriented - "encased in ice" can be removed with some quick firebending, but "thrown overboard" can't. Few things to track, thematic to the core inspiration, very tied into the fiction, reinforces that attacking moves should have a real fictional description beyond just "shoot with gun," healing from injuries is not an annoying fiddly subsystem like in BITD, pretty much hits all my marks.
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Feb 23, 2022 16:51
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I have less experience than most in this thread, but I quite like Fellowship's system: harm is reflected in damage to your stats, and a damaged stat rolls as 3d6/drop the highest until healed.
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Feb 23, 2022 17:01
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Ash Rose posted:Kinda related to a question I asked before, but frustration with Stonetop's insistence on using HP made me wonder what everyone's favorite 'harm' system they've encountered in a PbtA game. I like Fellowship's system of marking off stats for damage, even if that means everyone has an equivalent amount of durability. That hardly matters in a narrative-forward game anyway. I've seen other systems where characters take increasing penalties for injuries, but won't die unless the player thinks it's narratively appropriate. Which can get absurd, but hey, again, narrative. E: o helo ^^
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Feb 23, 2022 17:07
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I always appreciate harm systems that come with some amount of inherent prompting. Like Masks going "you are now feeling really insecure about this, this is is the kind of stupid thing you need to do to heal", or just the basic Harm roll in Apocalypse World usually giving you more to work with than "you got shot, and that... really sucks for you?". Hit point systems generally have a lot of flaws, but having no consequences to work with besides a number being lower is one of the worse ones.
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Feb 23, 2022 17:21
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I'll be the fool who actually goes to bat for hit points: when the game genre is appropriate for it they're an excellent way of expressing the danger of the situation on a player without actually putting up the big consequences. When something does 1d10 damage to you that feels like a big deal, even if you have the time and care and healing poultice to make it like it never happened at all. Enemy hit points, however, can die in a ditch.
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Feb 23, 2022 17:54
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Glazius posted:I'll be the fool who actually goes to bat for hit points: when the game genre is appropriate for it they're an excellent way of expressing the danger of the situation on a player without actually putting up the big consequences. When something does 1d10 damage to you that feels like a big deal, even if you have the time and care and healing poultice to make it like it never happened at all. HP (+ rolled damage) was totally fine for the original D&D, where violence was lethal and unpredictable. D&D has kinda moved away from that in practice; you have access to more healing, death savings throws, no damage rollover, etc. You still have rolled damage, but it's much less likely that a (single) random bad roll will kill you. It's weird in PbtA because by default it's a very narrative-driven framework and you need to lay some groundwork to marry 'story first' with 'you might die at any time because of sheer luck''. That's not to say you can't, but it's not how AW rolled and DW's bolted on hitpoints didn't really jibe for me. Xand_Man fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Feb 23, 2022 |
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Feb 23, 2022 19:17
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I don't even think tracking enemy HP is bad, it's just that having HP and how you use it is an artistic decision and it's very possible to do so thoughtlessly, which is a pretty fundamental source of sloppiness in art. Even pretty uninspired ones (like honestly, not a particularly clever or innovative element of AW) can be pretty good for reinforcing what the game's going for (AW in specific - reinforces that PCs are just more important than NPCs, and can reinforce that there's still a pretty big gap between tough and not-tough PCs, and is just granular enough to do both of those and not much more). I think Legend of the Elements is the only one I can name that's especially clever. I think Wanderhome and Firebrands are also good but those basically handle harm as nearly pure fiction with a process for how a character is harmed or dies.
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Feb 23, 2022 19:30
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Masks solves the superhero damage thing in a much more elegant way than mutants & masterminds did, which tied toughness to a flat curve check.
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Feb 23, 2022 20:35
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Mirage posted:I like Fellowship's system of marking off stats for damage, even if that means everyone has an equivalent amount of durability besides the Dwarf.
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Feb 24, 2022 12:47
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Tulip posted:
IMO, the biggest thing with AW damage (for bad guys) is that counting numbers is almost never the point. Really it just decides if it is one or two rounds of moves. To make it interesting, you write a custom move that constrains or changes the narrative of combat. Both 1E and 2E use the same example of this: quote:If you harm a hollow daughter with a gun, it blows through: inflict 1-harm on her and the rest of its harm on whatever’s behind her. The damage-tracking isn't too interesting, but trying to harm them can be meaningful. I've written all sorts of moves for enemies in this vein over the years:
By reframing the fight narratively, it makes it more-interesting than "number gets bigger." Using this approach works in a ton of places, e.g., Dungeon World fights get really cool when you dig through some old monster manuals and spec out some monsters to have custom moves that reflect the supernatural abilities listed here.
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Jun 4, 2022 05:47
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about AW damage.
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https://twitter.com/KamalaKaraA1/status/1545200831422676992?s=20&t=-ukxT-g_pNaqgd3FKDcGdA
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Jul 8, 2022 01:40
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Covok posted:https://twitter.com/KamalaKaraA1/status/1484189028824006659?s=20 Do you have a Google Sheet or Roll20 or Foundry etc. for character sheets and whatnot?
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Jul 9, 2022 16:35
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:Do you have a Google Sheet or Roll20 or Foundry etc. for character sheets and whatnot? No, we don't. I didn't think about that when I recruited for the project originally for the co-op.
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Jul 9, 2022 17:55
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Covok posted:https://twitter.com/KamalaKaraA1/status/1545200831422676992?s=20&t=-ukxT-g_pNaqgd3FKDcGdA Picked up the bundle and read it; I liked it! It took me a minute to really put together that PCs in fact do not have stats, and I'm not super into shonen battle manga (I'm into josei slice of life), but it makes sense to me, like the point of having stats is to distinguish PCs on things they succeed and fail at, but in principle in like DBZ people are just as strong as they need to be at that narrative moment. There's theoretically an underlying set of power levels e.g. Goku is stronger, but in practice success has less to do with that than what they need and how they express it in the moment. So I think it was a cool thing here! The Awakening is cool as a concept and how its presented. I do kind of wish there was a little more explanation for techniques? Maybe I missed it, I did read it pretty quick, but it feels like something that's really important to have guidelines and inspiration on.
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Jul 10, 2022 16:52
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Tulip posted:Picked up the bundle and read it; I liked it! It took me a minute to really put together that PCs in fact do not have stats, and I'm not super into shonen battle manga (I'm into josei slice of life), but it makes sense to me, like the point of having stats is to distinguish PCs on things they succeed and fail at, but in principle in like DBZ people are just as strong as they need to be at that narrative moment. There's theoretically an underlying set of power levels e.g. Goku is stronger, but in practice success has less to do with that than what they need and how they express it in the moment. So I think it was a cool thing here! The Awakening is cool as a concept and how its presented. I do kind of wish there was a little more explanation for techniques? Maybe I missed it, I did read it pretty quick, but it feels like something that's really important to have guidelines and inspiration on. It's funny you bring up techniques. I was talking with my friend about that yesterday. Techniques feel half baked because they're a corpse of a former mechanic. Nowadays, like with my new game Petmon, I throw every half baked idea in an "optional rules section" so people can try to make it work if they like the idea. Back then, I cut them out. Combat used to have a mechanic called Tension. Tension represented the current dramatic flair of the fight. Tension was expressed in a number between 1 and 5 and would naturally go up as a battle continued. Techniques had Tags. Tags were narrative abilities that gave wider narrative power. There were also bad tags that would apply limits to the power. Your net Technique had a Tension Score and a Technique could only be used if its Tension Score was equal to or less than the current Tension. However, I never could make the system balance out and it ultimately added very limit since it was all narrative with no mechanic effect. Ultimately, I cut my losses and made Techniques purely descriptive in nature. When (well, if) I do the book of knock off settings I have planned, I might reintroduce the ideas an optional rule. If you like, here is an unofficial One Piece playset I made for the game that shows a bit of how the rules can be stretched to fit a setting: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VdCURAGPrS1zv-TOk4xVQzIxDQ73kckHziEwzwFI2zM/edit?usp=drivesdk Edit: Also, I really, really appreciate you taking time to buy and read the game and support a good cause. I am glad you enjoyed what you read. The no stat system took a long time to decide on. I tried SO MANY different systems over and over and none of them ever felt right ever. I just couldn't feel satisfied with any of the stat arrays. Finally, I cut it out and the game got a lot, lot better. And you are exactly right as to why: stats don't matter too much to a shonen work. It's about expression more so than aptitude. While PbtA has always been about stats that reflect characteristics rather than physical traits, it feels off when a narrative that's always so loosey goosey on power levels and focuses more on narrative role gets so influenced by stats. Regardless, thank you buying the bundle. Covok fucked around with this message at 00:24 on Jul 11, 2022 |
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Jul 11, 2022 00:18
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https://overcast.fm/+Jph74_mtU Vincent and Meg talk about PbTA, and explain that in an ideal convention one shot, you actually play two sessions (The first 90 minutes, a break, the rest of session 2, so players can use starting/ end of session moves.) And that a cliffhanger is more interesting than rushing through the ending or not ending at all. (I tried signing up for some stuff at Gencon but there is absolutely nothing open besides 80 sessions of Pathfinder or 5E. Even Jackercon has more viable games.)
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Jul 14, 2022 08:00
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Golden Bee posted:https://overcast.fm/+Jph74_mtU Vincent and Meg talk about PbTA, and explain that in an ideal convention one shot, you actually play two sessions (The first 90 minutes, a break, the rest of session 2, so players can use starting/ end of session moves.) And that a cliffhanger is more interesting than rushing through the ending or not ending at all. I'm bring Root, Masks, and World Wide Wrestling to play with goons. Maybe more, join the Gencon thread/discord.
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Jul 14, 2022 22:08
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Virtual only? I’m not getting on a plane anytime soon.
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Jul 14, 2022 22:18
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Bottom Liner posted:I'm bring Root, Masks, and World Wide Wrestling to play with goons. Maybe more, join the Gencon thread/discord. There's a wrestling PbtA game? That's... cool.
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Jul 15, 2022 13:03
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World Wide Wrestling is really good and I've played one of the best RP campaigns I've ever played using the system.
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Jul 15, 2022 15:01
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Dawgstar posted:There's a wrestling PbtA game? That's... cool. Two editions, one of which I helped write! I can confidently say it’s the best wrestling RPG ever made.
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Jul 15, 2022 16:02
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Golden Bee posted:Two editions, one of which I helped write! And one of the best implementations of PBTA out there. A really top-notch RPG.
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Jul 15, 2022 16:06
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Dawgstar posted:There's a wrestling PbtA game? That's... cool. Unlike a lot of the other wrestling games that have been made, World Wide Wrestling embraces the 'this is a performance you are putting on for the crowd' aspect and it opens up a lot more room for interesting stories. It is definitely one of the best PbtA games out there.
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Jul 15, 2022 17:52
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world wide wrestling is an incredible game that properly captures pro wrestling.Covok posted:https://twitter.com/KamalaKaraA1/status/1545200831422676992?s=20&t=-ukxT-g_pNaqgd3FKDcGdA I bought this like a day before the bundle released but the system seems super cool! I'll make sure to report back to the thread when I actually get around to running it.
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Jul 15, 2022 18:04
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ItohRespectArmy posted:world wide wrestling is an incredible game that properly captures pro wrestling. Yeah, my bad on that. I didn't know this bundle existed because I don't control the itch account. Then, when I found out, the co-op had to vote. Then, I waited for it to actually be approved into the bundle by the itch peeps because it was sitting in queue for like 3 days and I didn't want to say it was in until I was sure to avoid looking a fool. So, yeah, sorry about that.
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Jul 15, 2022 19:36
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Covok posted:Yeah, my bad on that. I didn't know this bundle existed because I don't control the itch account. Then, when I found out, the co-op had to vote. Then, I waited for it to actually be approved into the bundle by the itch peeps because it was sitting in queue for like 3 days and I didn't want to say it was in until I was sure to avoid looking a fool. yeah no problem! just an unfortunate/funny coincidence.
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Jul 15, 2022 20:56
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I splashed out on the 2nd edition KS, one of the pre-made promotions in there is literally the campaign I had with group, although some details have been changed.
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Jul 16, 2022 01:27
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