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Funzo posted:That ban list is wild. Just outright throwing Rebel Han and Hera out of the game. It is interesting to compare tabletop games that ban vs. errata. I don't know that I have a clear preference for one over the other, aside from the option to play with your toys vs. not. The whole journey of this game is wild, it came within a hair of dethroning 40k and now it just feels like nobody really has a handle on what it is. This update is a lot to throw into a few pdfs and call it a day.
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Feb 22, 2022 23:59
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polynominal-c posted:Ehhh, I don't get it... what is this new players thing they're talking about?!? They are under the impression that the game is still selling at the rate it was in 2016 and that theres a massive influx of new people that are somehow too stupid to understand "point your ships at your opponent and shoot them"
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Feb 23, 2022 00:14
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Did they forget to delete a bulletpoint in the attack rules?quote:Unless it has an ability that allows attacks at range 0, a ship cannot is still in there E: Under player order too quote:During the Determine First Player step of setup, the player Then under setup quote:Determine Player Order: Randomly determine the first player as good proofreading going on here 
ro5s fucked around with this message at 00:57 on Feb 23, 2022 |
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Feb 23, 2022 00:31
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I think that they personally are coming at it from the perspective of new players which is why there's that skew. Early on in the transition they were generally openly saying they didn't know how to play all these Star Wars games they were handed and a lot of their regular little streams and the like were a means of them understanding the games they were now the developers for. Recently the narrative has changed to "we've loved and played these games since launch," juxtaposed with the constant reiteration that they just really think new players would be put off by this or that.
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Feb 23, 2022 00:36
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KongGeorgeVII posted:I just love how condescending the article is. They have a real problem with communication. Aces being back big time warms my cold dead heart. However I have played the bumping rules and they suck. You pull of a really skillful move get tokened up and then it's all wasted because your opponent bumps you and you get to enjoy rolling unmodified attack dice. It always, always feels bad
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Feb 23, 2022 00:43
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Raged posted:They have a real problem with communication. Let them bump Teroch and have fenn right behind him  Edit: holy poo poo Clan Training on Fenn Rau The double modded dream is real hoiyes fucked around with this message at 00:55 on Feb 23, 2022 |
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Feb 23, 2022 00:49
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So to try and get a sense for listbuilding, I decided to try and put together a classic three amigos X-Wing list and see how it compared to a base 2.0 list. Note that I haven't built a list for X-Wing in... a while, but: 3 Amigos (2.0) - 200 points: pre:Luke Skywalker (60)
Brilliant Evasion (2)
R2-D2 (8)
Shield Upgrade (6)
Servomotor S-Foils (0)
Ship total: 76 Half Points: 38 Threshold: 4
Biggs Darklighter (47)
R5-D8 (6)
Shield Upgrade (6)
Servomotor S-Foils (0)
Ship total: 59 Half Points: 30 Threshold: 4
Wedge Antilles (54)
Predator (2)
Plasma Torpedoes (7)
R4 Astromech (2)
Servomotor S-Foils (0)
Ship total: 65 Half Points: 33 Threshold: 3pre:Luke Skywalker (7)
Lone Wolf (5)
Brilliant Evasion (2)
R2-D2 (8)
Shield Upgrade (6)
Servomotor S-Foils (0)
Loadout: 28/28
Biggs Darklighter (5)
R5-D8 (6)
Shield Upgrade (6)
Servomotor S-Foils (0)
Loadout: 12/12
Wedge Antilles (6)
Predator (2)
Outmaneuver (6)
Plasma Torpedoes (7)
R4 Astromech (2)
Servomotor S-Foils (0)
Loadout: 20/20
Hobbie (2)
Loadout: 0/0
2.0 Equivalent Points: 251
And for a point of comparison, let's compare it to a Y-Wing list: (I have no idea if this would be particularly competitive, but hell I'd have fun with it) Y-Wings (2.0): 200/200 Points: pre:Gray Squadron Bomber (29)
Ion Cannon Turret (5)
Ion Torpedoes (4)
Watchful Astromech (2)
Munitions Failsafe (1)
Seismic Charges (3)
Ship total: 44 Half Points: 22 Threshold: 4
Gray Squadron Bomber (29)
Ion Cannon Turret (5)
Proton Torpedoes (12)
Watchful Astromech (2)
Munitions Failsafe (1)
Ship total: 49 Half Points: 25 Threshold: 4
Gray Squadron Bomber (29)
Ion Cannon Turret (5)
Proton Torpedoes (12)
Watchful Astromech (2)
Munitions Failsafe (1)
Ship total: 49 Half Points: 25 Threshold: 4
"Dutch" Vander (40)
Saturation Salvo (3)
Ion Cannon Turret (5)
Plasma Torpedoes (7)
Watchful Astromech (2)
Munitions Failsafe (1)
Ship total: 58 Half Points: 29 Threshold: 4 pre:Gray Squadron Bomber (29)
Cluster Missiles (4)
Munitions Failsafe (1)
Seismic Charges (3)
Loadout: 8/8
Gray Squadron Bomber (29)
Cluster Missiles (4)
Munitions Failsafe (1)
Seismic Charges (3)
Loadout: 8/8
Gray Squadron Bomber (29)
Cluster Missiles (4)
Munitions Failsafe (1)
Seismic Charges (3)
Loadout: 8/8
"Dutch" Vander (40)
Saturation Salvo (3)
Ion Cannon Turret (5)
Cluster Missiles (4)
Loadout 12/12
2.0 Point Equivalent: 169 I don't even know where to begin with this. This is awful. What the gently caress did Y-Wings do to AMG to deserve such a horrible treatment. e: Dutch doesn't even get a torpedo slot! why would you do this Acebuckeye13 fucked around with this message at 01:17 on Feb 23, 2022 |
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Feb 23, 2022 01:15
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Feb 23, 2022 01:16
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So in the new rules for attacking, they made the defending at R0 either mean that defenders can't modify attack dice, or that defenders can't modify their own dice or attack dice. They probably meant the first option, but it's so badly written that it could mean either of them.
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Feb 23, 2022 01:36
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Seems like Launch Bay Next is already updated. Black Squadron (3) Black Squadron Ace [TIE/ln Fighter] (4) Hull Upgrade (2) Predator Points: 9 (3) Black Squadron Ace [TIE/ln Fighter] (4) Hull Upgrade (2) Predator Points: 9 (3) Black Squadron Ace [TIE/ln Fighter] (4) Hull Upgrade (2) Predator Points: 9 (3) Black Squadron Ace [TIE/ln Fighter] (4) Hull Upgrade (2) Predator Points: 9 (3) Black Squadron Ace [TIE/ln Fighter] (4) Hull Upgrade (2) Predator Points: 9 (3) Black Squadron Ace [TIE/ln Fighter] (4) Hull Upgrade (2) Predator Points: 9 Total points: 18 This is going to be absurd  I could toss in another obsidian squad TIE if I wanted to, but I don’t need to add to the headache any more than I am already.
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Feb 23, 2022 02:12
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Icon Of Sin posted:Seems like Launch Bay Next is already updated. It might be worth it not to give your opponent 2 points at the start
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Feb 23, 2022 03:23
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Fenn Rau - 7 Crack shot Clan Training Afterburners Old Teroch - 6 Crack shot Clan training Afterburners Advanced Proton torps Edit: gently caress it gauntlet fits: Rook Kast - 7 hoiyes fucked around with this message at 03:45 on Feb 23, 2022 |
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Feb 23, 2022 03:42
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Have they done anything to stop separatists sitting on rocks next to objectives? Precise Hunter — Vulture-class Droid Fighter 3 Heavy Laser Cannon 4 Grappling Struts 0 Shield Upgrade 6 Ship Total: 3 Half Points: 2 Threshold: 2 Precise Hunter — Vulture-class Droid Fighter 3 Heavy Laser Cannon 4 Grappling Struts 0 Shield Upgrade 6 Ship Total: 3 Half Points: 2 Threshold: 2 Precise Hunter — Vulture-class Droid Fighter 3 Heavy Laser Cannon 4 Grappling Struts 0 Shield Upgrade 6 Ship Total: 3 Half Points: 2 Threshold: 2 General Grievous — Belbullab-22 Starfighter 5 Outmaneuver 6 Impervium Plating 0 Hull Upgrade 4 Soulless One 0 Ship Total: 5 Half Points: 3 Threshold: 4 Trade Federation Drone — Vulture-class Droid Fighter 2 Grappling Struts 0 Ship Total: 2 Half Points: 1 Threshold: 2 Trade Federation Drone — Vulture-class Droid Fighter 2 Grappling Struts 0 Ship Total: 2 Half Points: 1 Threshold: 2 Trade Federation Drone — Vulture-class Droid Fighter 2 Grappling Struts 0 Ship Total: 2 Half Points: 1 Threshold: 2 You can replace the three i1 vultures with two fully loaded bombardment drones too which might be better. KongGeorgeVII fucked around with this message at 04:08 on Feb 23, 2022 |
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Feb 23, 2022 04:03
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Building on that point, let's say that I want to make a vulture/grievous list like the above, and I want to have energy-shell charges for all of my ships for whatever reason: DFS-081 (3) - Grappling Struts - Energy-Shell Charges, - Shield Upgrade - Hull Upgrade DFS-311 (3) - Grappling Struts - Energy-Shell Charges, - Shield Upgrade Precise Hunter x 3 (9) - Grappling Struts - Heavy Laser Cannon - Shield Upgrade General Grievous (5) - Outmaneuver - Impervium Plating - Hull Upgrade - Soulless One The issue is that the Precise Hunters can't carry Energy-Shell Charges anymore, so if I really want to use them (for whatever reason), I need to change two of them to Haor Chall Prototype, and one of them to Separatist Drones, but this means that I can't take shield upgrades on them and instead need to use hull upgrades instead on the Prototype, and on the Separatist Drone have no shield OR hull upgrade. Why can't I have Precise Hunters with missile slots, if I want to have a combo that uses their pilot ability with energy shell charges? Why can't I have grievous with a tactical relay? Why punish players for playing what they want to play if, potentially, they want to use a generic in order to round out their list? Why don't have ships that cost the same amounts of points have the same loadout points?
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Feb 23, 2022 12:28
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For the steal the cargo scenario, what happens if a ship yeets itself out of the playing area? What happens if they dock? How did they manage to make the rules fore the scenario and not to think of those two potential situations? EDIT: I mean, both of those have simple solutions, but they should be present in the rules
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Feb 23, 2022 16:13
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Does anyone have any good recommendations for artists to commission for an alt-art? To celebrate TIEs with missiles, I want to have one of a TIE pilot standing up on their chair with the top hatch open, firing a bazooka.
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Feb 23, 2022 16:32
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What the hell. Vultures get cannons and ties get missiles but loving dutch can't have a torpedo?
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Feb 23, 2022 17:10
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Tekopo posted:For the steal the cargo scenario, what happens if a ship yeets itself out of the playing area? What happens if they dock? How did they manage to make the rules fore the scenario and not to think of those two potential situations? I think going off the board is covered by the rules for a ship being destroyed. It really should have a line for where to put the cargo saying "or range 1 from where it left the board" but whatever. Docking is interesting though. RAW you can just have two cargo in "one" ship, and the docked ship can't ever be forced to jettison unless the main ship is destroyed, which seems too good.
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Feb 23, 2022 17:14
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LanceKing2200 posted:I think going off the board is covered by the rules for a ship being destroyed. It really should have a line for where to put the cargo saying "or range 1 from where it left the board" but whatever.
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Feb 23, 2022 17:48
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I've updated the OP and put in for a thread title change. Also here's a cool comparison between 2.0 and 2.5 rules I just found on reddit. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1l--J7333ZM6LKme3p28QzWigO4F_xFLRU5VT2W4Lb4o/edit#gid=288716757
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Feb 23, 2022 18:00
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ConfusedUs posted:I've updated the OP and put in for a thread title change. Thanks to the kind mod who updated the thread title for me. The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > X-Wing 2.5: We are altering the rules. Pray we don't alter them any further.
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Feb 23, 2022 20:56
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ConfusedUs posted:Thanks to the kind mod who updated the thread title for me. 
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Feb 23, 2022 21:02
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So I threw all the Rebel ships into a spreadsheet, calculated what their point costs would be in the old system (Using their new point value*10, subtracting the loadout points) and here's what I found:
In general the point values are all over the place, and feel incredibly arbitrary. I have a really hard time believing any of this is even remotely balanced. I may also probably get around to other faction ships later tonight, since I'm sure there will be some real gems there. Acebuckeye13 fucked around with this message at 00:26 on Feb 24, 2022 |
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Feb 24, 2022 00:22
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HWKs are less impacted than they seem, as Moldy Crow now costs 0. What do you do with 18 points of upgrades on Braylen Stramm, though...
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Feb 24, 2022 00:53
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I think the HWKs are priced for a “free” Moldy Crow, so you’d have to include that in the 2.0 points when doing the comparison. Since all titles are 0 points now. e:fb
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Feb 24, 2022 01:14
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Yeah I don’t understand the points costs either. Lots of pilots are priced the same as other pilots for the same ship that are just objectively better.
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Feb 24, 2022 01:21
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Ah, I missed that most unique titles are now free upgrades. Which honestly feels like a weird choice, since it punishes players for taking two copies of the same ship, and effectively forces you to take what were previously optional upgrades. Not that many people were rolling around with multiple HWK-290s before, but even so... Anyway, here's a new Rebel list with the titles factored in (As well as a couple typos cleared up), as well as the Imperial list:  
Acebuckeye13 fucked around with this message at 03:17 on Feb 24, 2022 |
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Feb 24, 2022 03:10
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The points that made me "wut" the most was scum Z-95s. They're all 3pts, generics included, but N'dru is 2 pts.
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Feb 24, 2022 04:42
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The cool resistance fireball droid pilot that had a crew slot now has 0 upgrades along with a few other ships. It's so weird some of these choices.
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Feb 24, 2022 06:13
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the generic Pilot Skill 1 Defender is 7 points with 4 points of loadout. The generic Pilot skill 4 Defender is 7 points with 6 points of loadout and has more upgrade slots. I don't think AMG thought too hard about some of these decisions. I get they did not want 3 Defenders I guess, but seriously. enigmahfc fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Feb 24, 2022 |
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Feb 24, 2022 17:09
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enigmahfc posted:the generic Pilot Skill 1 Defender is 7 points with 4 points of loadout. They thought enough to prevent 3-Defender lists, though I think that problem would be better solved via the Restricted list.
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Feb 24, 2022 17:11
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Napoleon Nelson posted:They thought enough to prevent 3-Defender lists, though I think that problem would be better solved via the Restricted list. Yeah, but you'd think to balance them the lower PS defender should have more loudout points/options to be worth as many squad points as the higher PS. Another well thought out one - howlrunner's got 3 mod slots and not enough loadout points to take 3 useful mods.
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Feb 24, 2022 17:32
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Giving higher skill pilots more load out points then lower skill pilots of the same ship cost seems the exact opposite of what you’d expect to see. I don’t understand that decision.
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Feb 24, 2022 18:03
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Funzo posted:I don’t understand that decision. New thread title
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Feb 24, 2022 18:04
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Our local apologist is claiming that low initiative ships are priced high because otherwise you have to take different initiative pilots and it's to "eliminate brain power needed for thinking about multiple initiatives" and that "the price reflects how valuable spamming multiple I-1 can be" and that now to spam ships like TIEs you have to match initiative with Rebel generics. This guy has been doing mental gymnastics the whole time since AMG has announced rules changes. I'm not sure if he's doing it as a form of denial or if he's just being the normal company simp that thinks they can do no wrong.
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Feb 24, 2022 18:09
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I mean there is value is having a pile of ships all at the same initiative, but it has nothing to do with brain power. It just gives you much more flexibility in which order you activate ships in. It's why I really liked flying 5 T-65s.
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Feb 24, 2022 18:17
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Funzo posted:I mean there is value is having a pile of ships all at the same initiative, but it has nothing to do with brain power. It just gives you much more flexibility in which order you activate ships in. It's why I really liked flying 5 T-65s. Man back in 1.0 I used to love flying Wedge, Luke, and Wes, the latter two with Adaptability to make them PS9. Such a fun and flexible list.
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Feb 24, 2022 18:23
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Acebuckeye13 posted:Man back in 1.0 I used to love flying Wedge, Luke, and Wes, the latter two with Adaptability to make them PS9. Such a fun and flexible list.  That was a drat fun list. Or imperial triple 9’s, Soontir/Turr/Tetran. That one was always 1 turn away from certain death, it was the most  way to fly.
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Feb 24, 2022 18:34
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I've read on reddit that they stated on some stream that they deliberately priced generics in a lovely way because they don't like efficiency-chasing and also feel that named characters are the "heart" of the game. I do not have a source, and there's no way I'm wading through a bunch of streams to find it.
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Feb 24, 2022 18:38
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Having to track different abilities and upgrades and whatnot is kinda annoying for me. The last game of X-Wing I played was against a three ship list and having to keep track of what each one could do and when it could do it really brought me out of the game. Losing a game because you forgot that one specific ship can do one specific special thing during a specific phase is not really my idea of fun. I'm not really sure how proliferation of an increase in special rules within lists are going to make it easier for new players to play the game, which seemed to be an aim for AMG.
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Feb 24, 2022 18:52
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