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FishMcCool posted:Plus, for once, there's a concrete Brexit upside: his hands are free for whatever sanctions they deem appropriate, no need to get 27 other countries to agree. i'm sorry did you miss the January installment where Boris is in the worst hot water of his life and will throw loving any ally under the bus if he thinks it will save his skin. you think this fucker's going to miss his chance to play Churchill. Do it boris. nationalize chelsea
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Feb 24, 2022 14:28
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FishMcCool posted:Plus, for once, there's a concrete Brexit upside: his hands are free for whatever sanctions they deem appropriate, no need to get 27 other countries to agree. One of the touted reasons for Brexit was allowing more Russian money to enter the UK without the EU's whining about "laws" and "criminals"
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Feb 24, 2022 14:28
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Tesseraction posted:He's uniformly anti-war. It doesn't mean he's pro-Russia. One of the big problems with him as leader is that he sticks to his principles no matter what. I respect it and all but agree that now is not the time. He'd probably push for UN peacekeepers to get involved, but sees NATO getting involved as extremely deadly. I like Corbyn, I really do; however, right this very second—off the cuff commentary by Marcon aside—there is no risk of NATO involving itself in a shooting war with Russia. On top of that this feels to me like it’s August of 1939 and he’s wanting to hold a “NO WAR OVER POLAND!” rally. ZombieLenin fucked around with this message at 14:36 on Feb 24, 2022 |
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Feb 24, 2022 14:28
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a cyberpunk goose posted:It is an honest question. I see lots of reports and updates about strikes on military bases and after math videos of disabled vehicles or abandoned techies, jets flying over etc, but I have not seen anything other than these sort of sterile moments or reports of open fire on random civilians. Not saying it’s not happening, I’m just trying to catch up. It’s an honest question. 1) The soldiers are shooting at each other, they likely don't have time to bother with civilians 2) Actual atrocities are likely to start on civilian populations when the occupying forces move in staffed by rosgvardia and chechens 3) Not everything is getting recorded and put on the internet in realtime for our convenience
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Feb 24, 2022 14:29
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ZombieLenin posted:I like Corbyn, I really do; however, right this very second—off the cuff commentary by Marcon aside—there is no risk of NATO involving itself in a shooting war with Russia. I feel this is more of a 1938 Germany invades the rest of Czechoslovakia after Munich moment. The 1939 moment will be next year when he invades the Baltics.
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Feb 24, 2022 14:29
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BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:Do it boris. nationalize chelsea If he does, then fair play, I'll swallow my pride and buy a jersey.
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Feb 24, 2022 14:29
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dex_sda posted:lol pathetic Pardon?
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Feb 24, 2022 14:29
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no one believed that putin was insane enough to invade ukraine. but I fully believe that boris is insane enough to nationalize chelsea https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-qLC_ptImo
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Feb 24, 2022 14:30
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Morrow posted:The Russia apologists have moved on from denying that any invasion will take place to denying that the Russian army will target civilians in the invasion that is definitely happening, ignoring decades of experience of the Russian army's behavior in places like Grozny and Aleppo. Grozny and Aleppo were specifically the instances I was thinking of when I said Russia wages war in a particularly brutal way. Like whatever you think about the US military, it's more discriminate in its attacks than Russia was in either of those instances. Russia was deliberately bombing hospitals on a routine basis in Syria, and turned Grozny into rubble, so this isn't Russia apologia. My assumption is that it'll be harder to sell indiscriminate slaughter of a brotherly Slavic nation than either of those cases, and also that the Ukrainian military will be less stubborn about holding out in the face of that sort of warfare (once the end result is clear) than Chechen or Syrian jihadists were, but of course civilians will die. Like I said, it just depends on what you mean by 'slaughtering civilians.'
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Feb 24, 2022 14:30
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Interesting https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1496830841946837004
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Feb 24, 2022 14:31
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dex_sda posted:lol pathetic what is even going on anymore lmao
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Feb 24, 2022 14:31
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ZombieLenin posted:I like Corbyn, I really do; however, right this very second—off the cuff commentary by Marcon aside—there is no risk of NATO involving itself in a shooting war with Russia. Again, this is the problem with his anti-war stance, he very much is a no war over Poland kind of guy. This is why even as leader his second in command had to be John McDonnell who is a more pragmatic pacifist who knows that skulls sometimes need cracking. Now he's kicked out of Labour and back to being a backbench MP he can go to these protests that don't help the situation at all.
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Feb 24, 2022 14:31
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Dapper_Swindler posted:i mean why would you show them stuff that's their fetish. Tankies switching effortlessly from 'US media war drums trying to start a conflict' to 'gently caress yes Ukrainian Nazis deserve it' with no shame at all really is the worst. Tesseraction posted:Again, this is the problem with his anti-war stance, he very much is a no war over Poland kind of guy. This is why even as leader his second in command had to be John McDonnell who is a more pragmatic pacifist who knows that skulls sometimes need cracking. Now he's kicked out of Labour and back to being a backbench MP he can go to these protests that don't help the situation at all. Really didn't intend to start Corbyn-chat but the thing I realised after the Borough Market terrorist attack is that Corbyn's pacifism doesn't appear to be anti-war so much as anti-violence of any kind to the point where he was unable to say that a policeman shooting a terrorist is much less worse violence than the terrorist murdering somone. The pacifism itself is consistent, but it seems like 'all violence is equally bad always' results in a position where someone doing violence becomes no reason to change an opinion about anything. Alchenar fucked around with this message at 14:38 on Feb 24, 2022 |
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Feb 24, 2022 14:32
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Alchenar posted:Tankies switching effortlessly from 'US media war drums trying to start a conflict' to 'gently caress yes Ukrainian Nazis deserve it' with no shame at all really is the worst. I personally enjoy the 'are there even civilians being slaughtered right this second?? come on guys im just asking good faith questions' tankies (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 24, 2022 14:33
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Alchenar posted:Tankies switching effortlessly from 'US media war drums trying to start a conflict' to 'gently caress yes Ukrainian Nazis deserve it' with no shame at all really is the worst. How can there be anything more Nazi than invading loving Europe? I don't understand, how the gently caress can those two ideas coexist in someone's brain?
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Feb 24, 2022 14:33
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mobby_6kl posted:Would this really be effective in any way? I'm all for making the hardest possible response but I'm not really clear if this would do anything and not just backfire For what it's worth, every single bank has a contingency plan for if SWIFT goes down... SWIFT just carries financial message instructions, there are of course many alternative ways to do this if SWIFT is inoperable. So in my opinion, it's more symbolic and won't do much in practice.
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Feb 24, 2022 14:34
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Sally Sprodgkin posted:I personally enjoy the 'are there even civilians being slaughtered right this second?? come on guys im just asking good faith questions' tankies im losing my mind. is d&d always this weird? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 24, 2022 14:34
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a cyberpunk goose posted:im losing my mind. is d&d always this weird? I'd argue that people are pretty tense given a ground war in Europe.
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Feb 24, 2022 14:35
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https://twitter.com/GirkinGirkin/status/1496838814324641792 More of that shootdown which was attributed to a helicopter. To reiterate, it can be a helicopter because the Ka-52s have ejections seats. There's only one visible parachute though, the Ka-52 has two crew. The people in the video appear to be saying it's Russian, but there's nothing definite to my eyes that rules out a jet, such as a Russian Su-25 or a Ukranian MiG-29.
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Feb 24, 2022 14:35
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fnox posted:How can there be anything more Nazi than invading loving Europe? I don't understand, how the gently caress can those two ideas coexist in someone's brain? Ukraine has a Jewish president who won 73% of the vote. Facts don't matter to these people
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Feb 24, 2022 14:35
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Tesseraction posted:Again, this is the problem with his anti-war stance, he very much is a no war over Poland kind of guy. This is why even as leader his second in command had to be John McDonnell who is a more pragmatic pacifist who knows that skulls sometimes need cracking. Now he's kicked out of Labour and back to being a backbench MP he can go to these protests that don't help the situation at all.
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Feb 24, 2022 14:36
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Nenonen posted:It's a bit too early to declare Russia beaten yet. Or Ukraine for that matter. The invasion started 12 hours ago, nothing of consequence has happened yet. Only coming days will tell how it will go. Oh, I don’t think Russia is beaten. It just seems to me that Putin underestimated what it is going to take to conquer Ukraine, and that Russia will have to pay a heavy price both financially and in, for lack of a better a better phrase, blood to subdue Ukraine. A much heavier price than Putin planned for. Given the disparity of forces and geography this is the best realistic outcome we could have hoped for. Not only that, but Russia will have to occupy Ukraine for years and face a wide spread insurgency; as no puppet regime they install will survive a single day without tens of thousands of Russian soldiers protecting them.
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Feb 24, 2022 14:36
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Tesseraction posted:I'd argue that people are pretty tense given a ground war in Europe. yep, lesson learned
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Feb 24, 2022 14:36
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It's only symbolic, but every European country needs to dismiss their Russian ambassador today.
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Feb 24, 2022 14:37
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Sally Sprodgkin posted:I personally enjoy the 'are there even civilians being slaughtered right this second?? come on guys im just asking good faith questions' tankies I think that actually was an honest question and the answer is probably no, but anyone remotely familiar with how the Russian army operates and in particular how Putin has framed this conflict has to know that bad things are coming 
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Feb 24, 2022 14:37
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cinci zoo sniper posted:Yes, there was another unhinged speech published around 3am my time today, where he rambled a bit about Ukrainian nukes and then made a “heartfelt plea” that Russian military just wants to quickly “denazify” Ukrainian government, and Ukrainian military can just go home and have hot sex with their wives, and resume friendship with Russia once the “tumour” has been “surgically removed”. Everything about Russia's communication has been all over the place. Particularly as it's obviously been planned for a while now it's surprising that Putin didn't just have a few talking points handed out to everyone and have everyone stick to it. Both speeches he would ignore some stuff he mentioned before bring in new stuff. Seems like he made up like five different reasons to invade and has no idea which one he actually wants to stick with. Just makes it seem like he hasn't really thought a lot of stuff out. Stuff in the past he certainly would have.
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Feb 24, 2022 14:39
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a cyberpunk goose posted:I will probably just do this instead of trying to ask what’s going on in this thread because that’s an invitation to get your head bitten off apparently People may have misconstrued your putting "slaughtering" in quotes as some kind of denialism. Things are pretty tense though, hopefully more/better information starts coming now that its morning time here.
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Feb 24, 2022 14:40
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ZombieLenin posted:Oh, I don’t think Russia is beaten. It just seems to me that Putin underestimated what it is going to take to conquer Ukraine, and that Russia will have to pay a heavy price both financially and in, for lack of a better a better phrase, blood to subdue Ukraine. A much heavier price than Putin planned for. It's beaten in the longterm. There's no loving way to recover from this: attacking a peaceful brotherly nation, lying and loving over your friends (Scholz and Macron were promised diplomacy and look like idiots), NATO on high alert, more economic sanctions, everyone looking with horror and demanding to diversify from Russia. This might not be immediate but long-term this is all set. It was all set before with moving on from fossil fuels but this will definitely change the calculus
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Feb 24, 2022 14:40
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Charlz Guybon posted:I feel this is more of a 1938 Germany invades the rest of Czechoslovakia after Munich moment. This is the Italian conquest of Ethiopia in 1935.
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Feb 24, 2022 14:40
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dr_rat posted:Everything about Russia's communication has been all over the place. Particularly as it's obviously been planned for a while now it's surprising that Putin didn't just have a few talking points handed out to everyone and have everyone stick to it. Both speeches he would ignore some stuff he mentioned before bring in new stuff. Seems like he made up like five different reasons to invade and has no idea which one he actually wants to stick with. No one is left to challenge his internal narrative. It doesn't need to be consistent or thorough. He's spent the pandemic in a bunker isolated from human contact as much as possible, the world he lives in is more comparable to a game of civilization than reality.
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Feb 24, 2022 14:41
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ZombieLenin posted:Oh, I don’t think Russia is beaten. It just seems to me that Putin underestimated what it is going to take to conquer Ukraine, and that Russia will have to pay a heavy price both financially and in, for lack of a better a better phrase, blood to subdue Ukraine. A much heavier price than Putin planned for. and this is just the invasion phase too. the country is massive and outside friendly border regions, the Russians probably arnt gonna be welcomed as liberators and friends of the people. have fun getting stuck in an occupation quagmire assholes. like russian will probably "win" the invasion phase. but its phyricc victory for nothing outside an old mans imperial jerk off fantasies.
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Feb 24, 2022 14:41
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a cyberpunk goose posted:im losing my mind. is d&d always this weird? Yeah, but it's extra weird today with a ton of people extremely eager to jump to the least charitble reading of someones post possible. Hell, there's a army of strawmen marching in here too.
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Feb 24, 2022 14:41
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The real bad days for civilians will come after the battle, when they institute the occupation regime and start going through their admitted kill lists + cracking down on any signs of dissent. We have seen a hint of the sort of brutality pro Russian lackeys are capable of when they are backed by the central power in 2014.
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Feb 24, 2022 14:42
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Russia has a habit of deploying thermobaric weapons for urban operations since the 2nd chechen war. What we are seeing is probably nothing compared to what's to come.
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Feb 24, 2022 14:42
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Flagellum posted:Russia has a habit of deploying thermobaric weapons for urban operations since the 2nd chechen war. What we are seeing is probably nothing compared to what's to come. The only difference is the visibility: A lot of Russians view Ukraine as Russian, and if Putin starts brutalizing fellow Russians, it could go badly. Chechnya and Georgia were viewed in a different light.
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Feb 24, 2022 14:44
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Somaen posted:It's beaten in the longterm. There's no loving way to recover from this: attacking a peaceful brotherly nation, lying and loving over your friends (Scholz and Macron were promised diplomacy and look like idiots), NATO on high alert, more economic sanctions, everyone looking with horror and demanding to diversify from Russia. This might not be immediate but long-term this is all set. It was all set before with moving on from fossil fuels but this will definitely change the calculus I hope you are right. Russia must be politically and economically isolated, starting right now. No G8, no security council, no SWIFT, no shipping, no trade, no airlines. It's a bandit government on par with North Korea, or worse if you go by the metric "aggressive wars started the past 12 months". It has no business being part of the global community at the moment and excluding it from it will be the beginning of the end of Putin's regime, which in itself will be a horrible, painful boil to lance for the Russian people. The only question is if the West is brave enough to exclude it or if so many of our leaders are happy making money with Russia, or not willing to suffer even the slightest inconvenience. So far, outlook is not so good.
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Feb 24, 2022 14:45
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^^^^^^ If they see any of it. Flagellum posted:Russia has a habit of deploying thermobaric weapons for urban operations since the 2nd chechen war. What we are seeing is probably nothing compared to what's to come. Those have been seen at the border. And I think Grads are often used like that, too?
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Feb 24, 2022 14:45
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Somaen posted:It's beaten in the longterm. There's no loving way to recover from this: attacking a peaceful brotherly nation, lying and loving over your friends (Scholz and Macron were promised diplomacy and look like idiots), NATO on high alert, more economic sanctions, everyone looking with horror and demanding to diversify from Russia. This might not be immediate but long-term this is all set. It was all set before with moving on from fossil fuels but this will definitely change the calculus This seems very optimistic and naive.
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Feb 24, 2022 14:46
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Sinteres posted:Grozny and Aleppo were specifically the instances I was thinking of when I said Russia wages war in a particularly brutal way. Like whatever you think about the US military, it's more discriminate in its attacks than Russia was in either of those instances. Russia was deliberately bombing hospitals on a routine basis in Syria, and turned Grozny into rubble, so this isn't Russia apologia. My assumption is that it'll be harder to sell indiscriminate slaughter of a brotherly Slavic nation than either of those cases, and also that the Ukrainian military will be less stubborn about holding out in the face of that sort of warfare (once the end result is clear) than Chechen or Syrian jihadists were, but of course civilians will die. Like I said, it just depends on what you mean by 'slaughtering civilians.' Civilians are lining up today in Ukraine to volunteer to fight. It’s crazy to me that, no offense, people seem to forget the power of nationalism; and how nationalism can be harnessed to just as great a level as religion to inspire fanatical resistance. Just as a point of illustration, let’s talk about the German defense of Berlin in late April and early May of 1945, or even the German defense of fortress Europe after the Allied landings at d-day and the complete destruction of Army Group Center when the Soviets launched Operation Baragation. Or even better, the planned defense of the Japanese home islands before the Soviets invaded Manchuria and the atomic bombs were dropped—it was called “The Glorious Death of a Hundred Million.”
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Feb 24, 2022 14:47
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TheRat posted:Yeah, but it's extra weird today with a ton of people extremely eager to jump to the least charitble reading of someones post possible. Hell, there's a army of strawmen marching in here too. Have you considered that this thread is full of Eastern Europeans with friends, family, or themselves living in Ukraine? I can only wonder what's the expected response to "Are you or your family really in danger? I'm just asking questions"? If you mean to ask if there's evidence of Russian armed forces deliberately targeting civilian targets, just ask that question. Further incendiary questions, where someone cannot be arsed to invest 10 seconds into writing their post, may be treated as threadshitting simply due to the thread velocity and required moderation effort.
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Feb 24, 2022 14:48
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