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Jun 8, 2024 07:16
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- Jay-V
- Nov 8, 2009
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I think that probably, Ukraine implementing the Minsk deal would have been enough. Putin had maximalist claims stated in his negotiations with NATO, but I still think that the crux of it all came down to Ukraine, and implementing Minsk means a pro-Russian veto on Ukrainian foreign policy and essentially permanently rules out Ukraine joining NATO or the EU. That's why it was politically untenable for Zelensky to actually do it, but that's also why it probably would have avoided the war.
I see. So it's like if a stripper (Ukraine) were told by her manager/BF (russia) to not get overly touchy with other men (NATO), but her heart (zelenskyy) really wanted to, so now she is getting beat up. That's sad
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Feb 24, 2022 15:32
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- vyelkin
- Jan 2, 2011
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it would have been political suicide because there's deeeefintely no nazis, fascists or far right freaks in the ukraine government tho right
I admittedly don't know dick about Russian politics, does Russian civil society have any pull at all, is there any risk for Putin politically to just annex all of Ukraine?
Russian civil society has very little influence over what the Kremlin does. The most likely result is that a whole bunch of antiwar leftists get arrested and beaten up, and maybe sent to labour camps for a few years
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Feb 24, 2022 15:34
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- Grapplejack
- Nov 27, 2007
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Russian Michael Richards: "NATO! He's a NATO!"
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Feb 24, 2022 15:34
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- Danger
- Jan 4, 2004
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all desire - the thirst for oil, war, religious salvation - needs to be understood according to what he calls 'the demonogrammatical decoding of the Earth's body'
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gently caress off elden ring is out in a day let me have a month to finish it first
if you have Xbox and set your location to New Zealand you can be playing it right now
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Feb 24, 2022 15:35
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- Lostconfused
- Oct 1, 2008
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The sickos that want conflict should go fight in the conflict.
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Feb 24, 2022 15:36
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- Dreylad
- Jun 19, 2001
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The surprise is that knowing they couldn’t, why did they close any diplomatic option? That’s the rub.
They could not resist militarily - we are seeing that - so why did they force a military resolution?
The West is talking about Munich essentially because they have Lib Brains, but the demands were Minsk II. Signing it wouldn’t be appeasement for Ukraine.
I'm just spitballing at this point but I think Zelensky figured the US genuinely wouldn't let it come to this and then got left out with his rear end hanging and by then it was way too late.
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Feb 24, 2022 15:36
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- redneck nazgul
- Apr 25, 2013
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Can't post for 3 hours!
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Who the gently caress told Zelensky to walk away?
this is why i'm coming around on zelensky viewing this as the least bad option for ukraine
if he agreed to russia's demands, he'd have gotten couped and the right-wing government pisses all over the agreements and provokes russia even more
if he looks like he hosed up the negotiations and nato hung him out to dry, he looks like a dumbass but russia gets to focus entirely on the military and paramilitary elements and not the actual populace
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Feb 24, 2022 15:37
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- Dr Kool-AIDS
- Mar 26, 2004
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This isn't me, someone posted it in D&D:
I have become convinced that C-Spam has essentially become infiltrated by fascists who use left wing talking points and ideology to push people towards fascism.
The invasion of the Ukraine by Russia has no excuse under any leftist frame of thought. Putin’s Russia is not a leftist state in any way or form. It functions as a far-right Oligarchic Kleptocracy where the power of the capitalist Oligarchic corporations are protected completely by the state and by all rule of law. It is in no way an effective Democracy, and opposing party members are poisoned or arrested on trumped up charges.
Within the school of leftist thought you may claim that functionally the United States is the same, I believe there are quite big differences in terms of having somewhat more open elections and allowing freedom of opposing party members. Eitherway, leftists all agree that nothing about the United States political and economical system is “Good.” How you could point to a foreign economic and political system, which is much more unequal, and extremely worse for the proletariat masses as somehow being better because it opposes Westernism is the height of hypocrisy.
The invasion of Iraq was extremely illegal and wrong, but for all it’s bad, at the core of it’s government Sadam Hussein was a dictator that ruled without any elections and without the will of the masses. The only person that directed the nation's policy was him. Alternatively, Ukraine is a nation with an elected president, who represents at least marginally the will of people. The majority of Ukranians want to ally themselves with the west and NATO. Their right to self-determination means they should have every right to do so, just as much as Mexico should have every right to ally itself with China and Russia if its people so desired and elected politicians who would enact such a policy.
Beyond that the justification for war is grossly wrong. There may be Neonazi’s active in Ukraine. There are also Neonazi’s active in Russia, in the US, in nearly every country in Europe, in pretty much every country on the globe. The ideology of Russia is not far from the Neonazi, Putin and the Russian Military differ little from Hitler in their overarching ideology, and only in how willing he is to voice his beliefs publicly. Their concepts come directly from fascist books such as The Foundation of Geopolitics. Fascist politicians are extremely influential in Russian politics. Their main goal has been to push fascism throughout the world. On the world stage there can be no doubt. Beyond the Bourgeoisie, Russia represents the old system - From Monarchism to Imperialism to Feudalism. They are not a friend of the working class in any way or form, and the goal of Russia is to retrench the world back towards reactionary ideologies and nationalism by creating an alliance of fascist nationalist states similar to their own.
Saying you are invading Ukraine to denazify it is like saying you are invading Chile to decommunize it. Recent elections there did involve a coalition with communist parties, for example.
Russians activity in Syria leaves little imagination or justification to the effect that they represent the entrenched upper classes. The Syrian war was essentially a class conflict, brought on by a famine in the countryside that pushed the poor impoverished agricultors into the cities who were summarily ignored by the Syrian Dictator Bashar-Al Assad. The war started due to class conflict between the poor impoverished masses and the capitalist Dictatorship rulers. Russia could have supported left-leaning groups such as the YPG and other organizations focused on improving the conditions of the poor in Syria via socialism. They did not because they do not represent leftism nor are friends of leftists in any way or form. Russia will always side with the bourgeoisie and ruling classes and if you continue to support them and they win they will be happy to enact fascist dictatorships throughout the world.
When you defend the invasion of Ukraine you are essentially defending fascism. You are defending a reactionary response to democracy. You are defending Russian Imperialism, Russian Oligarchy, Nationalism and Fascism. There is no way around it.
For as much as you may hate NATO and the US or the West there is no defense for Russia and their actions here. There is nothing leftist about this and if members of C-Spam are defending the Russian invasion of the Ukraine they are defending fascism and inviting its spread through Europe, the US and the rest of the world. I have serious doubts that any of the posters who defend these things are actual leftists, if anything I believe they are fascists who have infiltrated the forums long ago and use left-wing talking points to push fascism. We can see that throughout the internet this has been a common tactic used by Fascists on other social media networks and forums.
In the days pre-internet, when thought was printed, the spread of news took forever - and the quantity of opinions was limited. Freedom of speech was essential. Just as with guns, we have evolved, in the past we had invented simple revolvers, and they may be acceptable for some self defense use. But as technology has advanced so have weapons, instead of revolvers we have AR-15s and semi-automatic weapons in the hands of common people who use them in ways that are irresponsible and dangerous. These weapons of mass war don’t belong in the hands of common people. As weapons technology has advanced so has the internet and social media. In this day and age freedom of mass speech and spread of misinformation from groups with very little actual power is as dangerous as a machine-gun.
I call on Jeffrey and the rest of SA to either shut down C-SPAM or investigate and ban potentially subversive fascist posters in that forum. They are not doing anyone any good and they are in fact potentially pushing people down a pigeonhole that radicalizes them towards far-right ideologies. I say this from personal experience. This is dangerous.
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Feb 24, 2022 15:37
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- redneck nazgul
- Apr 25, 2013
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Can't post for 3 hours!
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This isn't me, someone posted it in D&D:
I have become convinced that C-Spam has essentially become infiltrated by fascists who use left wing talking points and ideology to push people towards fascism.
The invasion of the Ukraine by Russia has no excuse under any leftist frame of thought. Putin’s Russia is not a leftist state in any way or form. It functions as a far-right Oligarchic Kleptocracy where the power of the capitalist Oligarchic corporations are protected completely by the state and by all rule of law. It is in no way an effective Democracy, and opposing party members are poisoned or arrested on trumped up charges.
Within the school of leftist thought you may claim that functionally the United States is the same, I believe there are quite big differences in terms of having somewhat more open elections and allowing freedom of opposing party members. Eitherway, leftists all agree that nothing about the United States political and economical system is “Good.” How you could point to a foreign economic and political system, which is much more unequal, and extremely worse for the proletariat masses as somehow being better because it opposes Westernism is the height of hypocrisy.
The invasion of Iraq was extremely illegal and wrong, but for all it’s bad, at the core of it’s government Sadam Hussein was a dictator that ruled without any elections and without the will of the masses. The only person that directed the nation's policy was him. Alternatively, Ukraine is a nation with an elected president, who represents at least marginally the will of people. The majority of Ukranians want to ally themselves with the west and NATO. Their right to self-determination means they should have every right to do so, just as much as Mexico should have every right to ally itself with China and Russia if its people so desired and elected politicians who would enact such a policy.
Beyond that the justification for war is grossly wrong. There may be Neonazi’s active in Ukraine. There are also Neonazi’s active in Russia, in the US, in nearly every country in Europe, in pretty much every country on the globe. The ideology of Russia is not far from the Neonazi, Putin and the Russian Military differ little from Hitler in their overarching ideology, and only in how willing he is to voice his beliefs publicly. Their concepts come directly from fascist books such as The Foundation of Geopolitics. Fascist politicians are extremely influential in Russian politics. Their main goal has been to push fascism throughout the world. On the world stage there can be no doubt. Beyond the Bourgeoisie, Russia represents the old system - From Monarchism to Imperialism to Feudalism. They are not a friend of the working class in any way or form, and the goal of Russia is to retrench the world back towards reactionary ideologies and nationalism by creating an alliance of fascist nationalist states similar to their own.
Saying you are invading Ukraine to denazify it is like saying you are invading Chile to decommunize it. Recent elections there did involve a coalition with communist parties, for example.
Russians activity in Syria leaves little imagination or justification to the effect that they represent the entrenched upper classes. The Syrian war was essentially a class conflict, brought on by a famine in the countryside that pushed the poor impoverished agricultors into the cities who were summarily ignored by the Syrian Dictator Bashar-Al Assad. The war started due to class conflict between the poor impoverished masses and the capitalist Dictatorship rulers. Russia could have supported left-leaning groups such as the YPG and other organizations focused on improving the conditions of the poor in Syria via socialism. They did not because they do not represent leftism nor are friends of leftists in any way or form. Russia will always side with the bourgeoisie and ruling classes and if you continue to support them and they win they will be happy to enact fascist dictatorships throughout the world.
When you defend the invasion of Ukraine you are essentially defending fascism. You are defending a reactionary response to democracy. You are defending Russian Imperialism, Russian Oligarchy, Nationalism and Fascism. There is no way around it.
For as much as you may hate NATO and the US or the West there is no defense for Russia and their actions here. There is nothing leftist about this and if members of C-Spam are defending the Russian invasion of the Ukraine they are defending fascism and inviting its spread through Europe, the US and the rest of the world. I have serious doubts that any of the posters who defend these things are actual leftists, if anything I believe they are fascists who have infiltrated the forums long ago and use left-wing talking points to push fascism. We can see that throughout the internet this has been a common tactic used by Fascists on other social media networks and forums.
In the days pre-internet, when thought was printed, the spread of news took forever - and the quantity of opinions was limited. Freedom of speech was essential. Just as with guns, we have evolved, in the past we had invented simple revolvers, and they may be acceptable for some self defense use. But as technology has advanced so have weapons, instead of revolvers we have AR-15s and semi-automatic weapons in the hands of common people who use them in ways that are irresponsible and dangerous. These weapons of mass war don’t belong in the hands of common people. As weapons technology has advanced so has the internet and social media. In this day and age freedom of mass speech and spread of misinformation from groups with very little actual power is as dangerous as a machine-gun.
I call on Jeffrey and the rest of SA to either shut down C-SPAM or investigate and ban potentially subversive fascist posters in that forum. They are not doing anyone any good and they are in fact potentially pushing people down a pigeonhole that radicalizes them towards far-right ideologies. I say this from personal experience. This is dangerous.
holy poo poo, now that's bappin
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Feb 24, 2022 15:38
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- fits my needs
- Jan 1, 2011
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Grimey Drawer
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This isn't me, someone posted it in D&D:
I have become convinced that C-Spam has essentially become infiltrated by fascists who use left wing talking points and ideology to push people towards fascism.
The invasion of the Ukraine by Russia has no excuse under any leftist frame of thought. Putin’s Russia is not a leftist state in any way or form. It functions as a far-right Oligarchic Kleptocracy where the power of the capitalist Oligarchic corporations are protected completely by the state and by all rule of law. It is in no way an effective Democracy, and opposing party members are poisoned or arrested on trumped up charges.
Within the school of leftist thought you may claim that functionally the United States is the same, I believe there are quite big differences in terms of having somewhat more open elections and allowing freedom of opposing party members. Eitherway, leftists all agree that nothing about the United States political and economical system is “Good.” How you could point to a foreign economic and political system, which is much more unequal, and extremely worse for the proletariat masses as somehow being better because it opposes Westernism is the height of hypocrisy.
The invasion of Iraq was extremely illegal and wrong, but for all it’s bad, at the core of it’s government Sadam Hussein was a dictator that ruled without any elections and without the will of the masses. The only person that directed the nation's policy was him. Alternatively, Ukraine is a nation with an elected president, who represents at least marginally the will of people. The majority of Ukranians want to ally themselves with the west and NATO. Their right to self-determination means they should have every right to do so, just as much as Mexico should have every right to ally itself with China and Russia if its people so desired and elected politicians who would enact such a policy.
Beyond that the justification for war is grossly wrong. There may be Neonazi’s active in Ukraine. There are also Neonazi’s active in Russia, in the US, in nearly every country in Europe, in pretty much every country on the globe. The ideology of Russia is not far from the Neonazi, Putin and the Russian Military differ little from Hitler in their overarching ideology, and only in how willing he is to voice his beliefs publicly. Their concepts come directly from fascist books such as The Foundation of Geopolitics. Fascist politicians are extremely influential in Russian politics. Their main goal has been to push fascism throughout the world. On the world stage there can be no doubt. Beyond the Bourgeoisie, Russia represents the old system - From Monarchism to Imperialism to Feudalism. They are not a friend of the working class in any way or form, and the goal of Russia is to retrench the world back towards reactionary ideologies and nationalism by creating an alliance of fascist nationalist states similar to their own.
Saying you are invading Ukraine to denazify it is like saying you are invading Chile to decommunize it. Recent elections there did involve a coalition with communist parties, for example.
Russians activity in Syria leaves little imagination or justification to the effect that they represent the entrenched upper classes. The Syrian war was essentially a class conflict, brought on by a famine in the countryside that pushed the poor impoverished agricultors into the cities who were summarily ignored by the Syrian Dictator Bashar-Al Assad. The war started due to class conflict between the poor impoverished masses and the capitalist Dictatorship rulers. Russia could have supported left-leaning groups such as the YPG and other organizations focused on improving the conditions of the poor in Syria via socialism. They did not because they do not represent leftism nor are friends of leftists in any way or form. Russia will always side with the bourgeoisie and ruling classes and if you continue to support them and they win they will be happy to enact fascist dictatorships throughout the world.
When you defend the invasion of Ukraine you are essentially defending fascism. You are defending a reactionary response to democracy. You are defending Russian Imperialism, Russian Oligarchy, Nationalism and Fascism. There is no way around it.
For as much as you may hate NATO and the US or the West there is no defense for Russia and their actions here. There is nothing leftist about this and if members of C-Spam are defending the Russian invasion of the Ukraine they are defending fascism and inviting its spread through Europe, the US and the rest of the world. I have serious doubts that any of the posters who defend these things are actual leftists, if anything I believe they are fascists who have infiltrated the forums long ago and use left-wing talking points to push fascism. We can see that throughout the internet this has been a common tactic used by Fascists on other social media networks and forums.
In the days pre-internet, when thought was printed, the spread of news took forever - and the quantity of opinions was limited. Freedom of speech was essential. Just as with guns, we have evolved, in the past we had invented simple revolvers, and they may be acceptable for some self defense use. But as technology has advanced so have weapons, instead of revolvers we have AR-15s and semi-automatic weapons in the hands of common people who use them in ways that are irresponsible and dangerous. These weapons of mass war don’t belong in the hands of common people. As weapons technology has advanced so has the internet and social media. In this day and age freedom of mass speech and spread of misinformation from groups with very little actual power is as dangerous as a machine-gun.
I call on Jeffrey and the rest of SA to either shut down C-SPAM or investigate and ban potentially subversive fascist posters in that forum. They are not doing anyone any good and they are in fact potentially pushing people down a pigeonhole that radicalizes them towards far-right ideologies. I say this from personal experience. This is dangerous.
hahaha what the gently caress
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Feb 24, 2022 15:38
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- Tiler Kiwi
- Feb 26, 2011
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Sure, but doesn't that give Russia a military veto over Ukrainian policy indefinitely anyway?
One of those "every choice is somehow worse than every other choice" scenarios
deal from strength or get crushed every time
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Feb 24, 2022 15:38
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- Amp
- Sep 10, 2010
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This isn't me, someone posted it in D&D:
I have become convinced that C-Spam has essentially become infiltrated by fascists who use left wing talking points and ideology to push people towards fascism.
The invasion of the Ukraine by Russia has no excuse under any leftist frame of thought. Putin’s Russia is not a leftist state in any way or form. It functions as a far-right Oligarchic Kleptocracy where the power of the capitalist Oligarchic corporations are protected completely by the state and by all rule of law. It is in no way an effective Democracy, and opposing party members are poisoned or arrested on trumped up charges.
Within the school of leftist thought you may claim that functionally the United States is the same, I believe there are quite big differences in terms of having somewhat more open elections and allowing freedom of opposing party members. Eitherway, leftists all agree that nothing about the United States political and economical system is “Good.” How you could point to a foreign economic and political system, which is much more unequal, and extremely worse for the proletariat masses as somehow being better because it opposes Westernism is the height of hypocrisy.
The invasion of Iraq was extremely illegal and wrong, but for all it’s bad, at the core of it’s government Sadam Hussein was a dictator that ruled without any elections and without the will of the masses. The only person that directed the nation's policy was him. Alternatively, Ukraine is a nation with an elected president, who represents at least marginally the will of people. The majority of Ukranians want to ally themselves with the west and NATO. Their right to self-determination means they should have every right to do so, just as much as Mexico should have every right to ally itself with China and Russia if its people so desired and elected politicians who would enact such a policy.
Beyond that the justification for war is grossly wrong. There may be Neonazi’s active in Ukraine. There are also Neonazi’s active in Russia, in the US, in nearly every country in Europe, in pretty much every country on the globe. The ideology of Russia is not far from the Neonazi, Putin and the Russian Military differ little from Hitler in their overarching ideology, and only in how willing he is to voice his beliefs publicly. Their concepts come directly from fascist books such as The Foundation of Geopolitics. Fascist politicians are extremely influential in Russian politics. Their main goal has been to push fascism throughout the world. On the world stage there can be no doubt. Beyond the Bourgeoisie, Russia represents the old system - From Monarchism to Imperialism to Feudalism. They are not a friend of the working class in any way or form, and the goal of Russia is to retrench the world back towards reactionary ideologies and nationalism by creating an alliance of fascist nationalist states similar to their own.
Saying you are invading Ukraine to denazify it is like saying you are invading Chile to decommunize it. Recent elections there did involve a coalition with communist parties, for example.
Russians activity in Syria leaves little imagination or justification to the effect that they represent the entrenched upper classes. The Syrian war was essentially a class conflict, brought on by a famine in the countryside that pushed the poor impoverished agricultors into the cities who were summarily ignored by the Syrian Dictator Bashar-Al Assad. The war started due to class conflict between the poor impoverished masses and the capitalist Dictatorship rulers. Russia could have supported left-leaning groups such as the YPG and other organizations focused on improving the conditions of the poor in Syria via socialism. They did not because they do not represent leftism nor are friends of leftists in any way or form. Russia will always side with the bourgeoisie and ruling classes and if you continue to support them and they win they will be happy to enact fascist dictatorships throughout the world.
When you defend the invasion of Ukraine you are essentially defending fascism. You are defending a reactionary response to democracy. You are defending Russian Imperialism, Russian Oligarchy, Nationalism and Fascism. There is no way around it.
For as much as you may hate NATO and the US or the West there is no defense for Russia and their actions here. There is nothing leftist about this and if members of C-Spam are defending the Russian invasion of the Ukraine they are defending fascism and inviting its spread through Europe, the US and the rest of the world. I have serious doubts that any of the posters who defend these things are actual leftists, if anything I believe they are fascists who have infiltrated the forums long ago and use left-wing talking points to push fascism. We can see that throughout the internet this has been a common tactic used by Fascists on other social media networks and forums.
In the days pre-internet, when thought was printed, the spread of news took forever - and the quantity of opinions was limited. Freedom of speech was essential. Just as with guns, we have evolved, in the past we had invented simple revolvers, and they may be acceptable for some self defense use. But as technology has advanced so have weapons, instead of revolvers we have AR-15s and semi-automatic weapons in the hands of common people who use them in ways that are irresponsible and dangerous. These weapons of mass war don’t belong in the hands of common people. As weapons technology has advanced so has the internet and social media. In this day and age freedom of mass speech and spread of misinformation from groups with very little actual power is as dangerous as a machine-gun.
I call on Jeffrey and the rest of SA to either shut down C-SPAM or investigate and ban potentially subversive fascist posters in that forum. They are not doing anyone any good and they are in fact potentially pushing people down a pigeonhole that radicalizes them towards far-right ideologies. I say this from personal experience. This is dangerous.
same
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Feb 24, 2022 15:38
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- Good soup!
- Nov 2, 2010
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The sickos that want conflict should go fight in the conflict.
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Feb 24, 2022 15:38
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- Al-Saqr
- Nov 11, 2007
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One Day I Will Return To Your Side.
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This isn't me, someone posted it in D&D:
I have become convinced that C-Spam has essentially become infiltrated by fascists who use left wing talking points and ideology to push people towards fascism.
The invasion of the Ukraine by Russia has no excuse under any leftist frame of thought. Putin’s Russia is not a leftist state in any way or form. It functions as a far-right Oligarchic Kleptocracy where the power of the capitalist Oligarchic corporations are protected completely by the state and by all rule of law. It is in no way an effective Democracy, and opposing party members are poisoned or arrested on trumped up charges.
Within the school of leftist thought you may claim that functionally the United States is the same, I believe there are quite big differences in terms of having somewhat more open elections and allowing freedom of opposing party members. Eitherway, leftists all agree that nothing about the United States political and economical system is “Good.” How you could point to a foreign economic and political system, which is much more unequal, and extremely worse for the proletariat masses as somehow being better because it opposes Westernism is the height of hypocrisy.
The invasion of Iraq was extremely illegal and wrong, but for all it’s bad, at the core of it’s government Sadam Hussein was a dictator that ruled without any elections and without the will of the masses. The only person that directed the nation's policy was him. Alternatively, Ukraine is a nation with an elected president, who represents at least marginally the will of people. The majority of Ukranians want to ally themselves with the west and NATO. Their right to self-determination means they should have every right to do so, just as much as Mexico should have every right to ally itself with China and Russia if its people so desired and elected politicians who would enact such a policy.
Beyond that the justification for war is grossly wrong. There may be Neonazi’s active in Ukraine. There are also Neonazi’s active in Russia, in the US, in nearly every country in Europe, in pretty much every country on the globe. The ideology of Russia is not far from the Neonazi, Putin and the Russian Military differ little from Hitler in their overarching ideology, and only in how willing he is to voice his beliefs publicly. Their concepts come directly from fascist books such as The Foundation of Geopolitics. Fascist politicians are extremely influential in Russian politics. Their main goal has been to push fascism throughout the world. On the world stage there can be no doubt. Beyond the Bourgeoisie, Russia represents the old system - From Monarchism to Imperialism to Feudalism. They are not a friend of the working class in any way or form, and the goal of Russia is to retrench the world back towards reactionary ideologies and nationalism by creating an alliance of fascist nationalist states similar to their own.
Saying you are invading Ukraine to denazify it is like saying you are invading Chile to decommunize it. Recent elections there did involve a coalition with communist parties, for example.
Russians activity in Syria leaves little imagination or justification to the effect that they represent the entrenched upper classes. The Syrian war was essentially a class conflict, brought on by a famine in the countryside that pushed the poor impoverished agricultors into the cities who were summarily ignored by the Syrian Dictator Bashar-Al Assad. The war started due to class conflict between the poor impoverished masses and the capitalist Dictatorship rulers. Russia could have supported left-leaning groups such as the YPG and other organizations focused on improving the conditions of the poor in Syria via socialism. They did not because they do not represent leftism nor are friends of leftists in any way or form. Russia will always side with the bourgeoisie and ruling classes and if you continue to support them and they win they will be happy to enact fascist dictatorships throughout the world.
When you defend the invasion of Ukraine you are essentially defending fascism. You are defending a reactionary response to democracy. You are defending Russian Imperialism, Russian Oligarchy, Nationalism and Fascism. There is no way around it.
For as much as you may hate NATO and the US or the West there is no defense for Russia and their actions here. There is nothing leftist about this and if members of C-Spam are defending the Russian invasion of the Ukraine they are defending fascism and inviting its spread through Europe, the US and the rest of the world. I have serious doubts that any of the posters who defend these things are actual leftists, if anything I believe they are fascists who have infiltrated the forums long ago and use left-wing talking points to push fascism. We can see that throughout the internet this has been a common tactic used by Fascists on other social media networks and forums.
In the days pre-internet, when thought was printed, the spread of news took forever - and the quantity of opinions was limited. Freedom of speech was essential. Just as with guns, we have evolved, in the past we had invented simple revolvers, and they may be acceptable for some self defense use. But as technology has advanced so have weapons, instead of revolvers we have AR-15s and semi-automatic weapons in the hands of common people who use them in ways that are irresponsible and dangerous. These weapons of mass war don’t belong in the hands of common people. As weapons technology has advanced so has the internet and social media. In this day and age freedom of mass speech and spread of misinformation from groups with very little actual power is as dangerous as a machine-gun.
I call on Jeffrey and the rest of SA to either shut down C-SPAM or investigate and ban potentially subversive fascist posters in that forum. They are not doing anyone any good and they are in fact potentially pushing people down a pigeonhole that radicalizes them towards far-right ideologies. I say this from personal experience. This is dangerous.
loooolll what a loving crybaby
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Feb 24, 2022 15:39
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- Jay-V
- Nov 8, 2009
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don't help, just keep filming...
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Feb 24, 2022 15:39
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- HallelujahLee
- May 3, 2009
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nice they manage to have a insane rant and defend the iraq war at the same time
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Feb 24, 2022 15:39
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- Happy Noodle Boy
- Jul 3, 2002
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This isn't me, someone posted it in D&D:
I have become convinced that C-Spam has essentially become infiltrated by fascists who use left wing talking points and ideology to push people towards fascism.
The invasion of the Ukraine by Russia has no excuse under any leftist frame of thought. Putin’s Russia is not a leftist state in any way or form. It functions as a far-right Oligarchic Kleptocracy where the power of the capitalist Oligarchic corporations are protected completely by the state and by all rule of law. It is in no way an effective Democracy, and opposing party members are poisoned or arrested on trumped up charges.
Within the school of leftist thought you may claim that functionally the United States is the same, I believe there are quite big differences in terms of having somewhat more open elections and allowing freedom of opposing party members. Eitherway, leftists all agree that nothing about the United States political and economical system is “Good.” How you could point to a foreign economic and political system, which is much more unequal, and extremely worse for the proletariat masses as somehow being better because it opposes Westernism is the height of hypocrisy.
The invasion of Iraq was extremely illegal and wrong, but for all it’s bad, at the core of it’s government Sadam Hussein was a dictator that ruled without any elections and without the will of the masses. The only person that directed the nation's policy was him. Alternatively, Ukraine is a nation with an elected president, who represents at least marginally the will of people. The majority of Ukranians want to ally themselves with the west and NATO. Their right to self-determination means they should have every right to do so, just as much as Mexico should have every right to ally itself with China and Russia if its people so desired and elected politicians who would enact such a policy.
Beyond that the justification for war is grossly wrong. There may be Neonazi’s active in Ukraine. There are also Neonazi’s active in Russia, in the US, in nearly every country in Europe, in pretty much every country on the globe. The ideology of Russia is not far from the Neonazi, Putin and the Russian Military differ little from Hitler in their overarching ideology, and only in how willing he is to voice his beliefs publicly. Their concepts come directly from fascist books such as The Foundation of Geopolitics. Fascist politicians are extremely influential in Russian politics. Their main goal has been to push fascism throughout the world. On the world stage there can be no doubt. Beyond the Bourgeoisie, Russia represents the old system - From Monarchism to Imperialism to Feudalism. They are not a friend of the working class in any way or form, and the goal of Russia is to retrench the world back towards reactionary ideologies and nationalism by creating an alliance of fascist nationalist states similar to their own.
Saying you are invading Ukraine to denazify it is like saying you are invading Chile to decommunize it. Recent elections there did involve a coalition with communist parties, for example.
Russians activity in Syria leaves little imagination or justification to the effect that they represent the entrenched upper classes. The Syrian war was essentially a class conflict, brought on by a famine in the countryside that pushed the poor impoverished agricultors into the cities who were summarily ignored by the Syrian Dictator Bashar-Al Assad. The war started due to class conflict between the poor impoverished masses and the capitalist Dictatorship rulers. Russia could have supported left-leaning groups such as the YPG and other organizations focused on improving the conditions of the poor in Syria via socialism. They did not because they do not represent leftism nor are friends of leftists in any way or form. Russia will always side with the bourgeoisie and ruling classes and if you continue to support them and they win they will be happy to enact fascist dictatorships throughout the world.
When you defend the invasion of Ukraine you are essentially defending fascism. You are defending a reactionary response to democracy. You are defending Russian Imperialism, Russian Oligarchy, Nationalism and Fascism. There is no way around it.
For as much as you may hate NATO and the US or the West there is no defense for Russia and their actions here. There is nothing leftist about this and if members of C-Spam are defending the Russian invasion of the Ukraine they are defending fascism and inviting its spread through Europe, the US and the rest of the world. I have serious doubts that any of the posters who defend these things are actual leftists, if anything I believe they are fascists who have infiltrated the forums long ago and use left-wing talking points to push fascism. We can see that throughout the internet this has been a common tactic used by Fascists on other social media networks and forums.
In the days pre-internet, when thought was printed, the spread of news took forever - and the quantity of opinions was limited. Freedom of speech was essential. Just as with guns, we have evolved, in the past we had invented simple revolvers, and they may be acceptable for some self defense use. But as technology has advanced so have weapons, instead of revolvers we have AR-15s and semi-automatic weapons in the hands of common people who use them in ways that are irresponsible and dangerous. These weapons of mass war don’t belong in the hands of common people. As weapons technology has advanced so has the internet and social media. In this day and age freedom of mass speech and spread of misinformation from groups with very little actual power is as dangerous as a machine-gun.
I call on Jeffrey and the rest of SA to either shut down C-SPAM or investigate and ban potentially subversive fascist posters in that forum. They are not doing anyone any good and they are in fact potentially pushing people down a pigeonhole that radicalizes them towards far-right ideologies. I say this from personal experience. This is dangerous.
lol look at this loving idiot
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Feb 24, 2022 15:39
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- Dreylad
- Jun 19, 2001
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holy poo poo, now that's bappin
it's cool, there's a ton of words and you drill down and find the "if" clause and lol
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Feb 24, 2022 15:39
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- brugroffil
- Nov 30, 2015
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This isn't me, someone posted it in D&D:
I have become convinced that C-Spam has essentially become infiltrated by fascists who use left wing talking points and ideology to push people towards fascism.
The invasion of the Ukraine by Russia has no excuse under any leftist frame of thought. Putin’s Russia is not a leftist state in any way or form. It functions as a far-right Oligarchic Kleptocracy where the power of the capitalist Oligarchic corporations are protected completely by the state and by all rule of law. It is in no way an effective Democracy, and opposing party members are poisoned or arrested on trumped up charges.
Within the school of leftist thought you may claim that functionally the United States is the same, I believe there are quite big differences in terms of having somewhat more open elections and allowing freedom of opposing party members. Eitherway, leftists all agree that nothing about the United States political and economical system is “Good.” How you could point to a foreign economic and political system, which is much more unequal, and extremely worse for the proletariat masses as somehow being better because it opposes Westernism is the height of hypocrisy.
The invasion of Iraq was extremely illegal and wrong, but for all it’s bad, at the core of it’s government Sadam Hussein was a dictator that ruled without any elections and without the will of the masses. The only person that directed the nation's policy was him. Alternatively, Ukraine is a nation with an elected president, who represents at least marginally the will of people. The majority of Ukranians want to ally themselves with the west and NATO. Their right to self-determination means they should have every right to do so, just as much as Mexico should have every right to ally itself with China and Russia if its people so desired and elected politicians who would enact such a policy.
Beyond that the justification for war is grossly wrong. There may be Neonazi’s active in Ukraine. There are also Neonazi’s active in Russia, in the US, in nearly every country in Europe, in pretty much every country on the globe. The ideology of Russia is not far from the Neonazi, Putin and the Russian Military differ little from Hitler in their overarching ideology, and only in how willing he is to voice his beliefs publicly. Their concepts come directly from fascist books such as The Foundation of Geopolitics. Fascist politicians are extremely influential in Russian politics. Their main goal has been to push fascism throughout the world. On the world stage there can be no doubt. Beyond the Bourgeoisie, Russia represents the old system - From Monarchism to Imperialism to Feudalism. They are not a friend of the working class in any way or form, and the goal of Russia is to retrench the world back towards reactionary ideologies and nationalism by creating an alliance of fascist nationalist states similar to their own.
Saying you are invading Ukraine to denazify it is like saying you are invading Chile to decommunize it. Recent elections there did involve a coalition with communist parties, for example.
Russians activity in Syria leaves little imagination or justification to the effect that they represent the entrenched upper classes. The Syrian war was essentially a class conflict, brought on by a famine in the countryside that pushed the poor impoverished agricultors into the cities who were summarily ignored by the Syrian Dictator Bashar-Al Assad. The war started due to class conflict between the poor impoverished masses and the capitalist Dictatorship rulers. Russia could have supported left-leaning groups such as the YPG and other organizations focused on improving the conditions of the poor in Syria via socialism. They did not because they do not represent leftism nor are friends of leftists in any way or form. Russia will always side with the bourgeoisie and ruling classes and if you continue to support them and they win they will be happy to enact fascist dictatorships throughout the world.
When you defend the invasion of Ukraine you are essentially defending fascism. You are defending a reactionary response to democracy. You are defending Russian Imperialism, Russian Oligarchy, Nationalism and Fascism. There is no way around it.
For as much as you may hate NATO and the US or the West there is no defense for Russia and their actions here. There is nothing leftist about this and if members of C-Spam are defending the Russian invasion of the Ukraine they are defending fascism and inviting its spread through Europe, the US and the rest of the world. I have serious doubts that any of the posters who defend these things are actual leftists, if anything I believe they are fascists who have infiltrated the forums long ago and use left-wing talking points to push fascism. We can see that throughout the internet this has been a common tactic used by Fascists on other social media networks and forums.
In the days pre-internet, when thought was printed, the spread of news took forever - and the quantity of opinions was limited. Freedom of speech was essential. Just as with guns, we have evolved, in the past we had invented simple revolvers, and they may be acceptable for some self defense use. But as technology has advanced so have weapons, instead of revolvers we have AR-15s and semi-automatic weapons in the hands of common people who use them in ways that are irresponsible and dangerous. These weapons of mass war don’t belong in the hands of common people. As weapons technology has advanced so has the internet and social media. In this day and age freedom of mass speech and spread of misinformation from groups with very little actual power is as dangerous as a machine-gun.
I call on Jeffrey and the rest of SA to either shut down C-SPAM or investigate and ban potentially subversive fascist posters in that forum. They are not doing anyone any good and they are in fact potentially pushing people down a pigeonhole that radicalizes them towards far-right ideologies. I say this from personal experience. This is dangerous.
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Feb 24, 2022 15:40
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- lumpentroll
- Mar 4, 2020
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Russian Michael Richards: "NATO! He's a NATO!"
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Feb 24, 2022 15:40
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- smoobles
- Sep 4, 2014
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they said cyberspace was the next great battlefield, and I'm starting to see why
https://twitter.com/Ukraine/status/1496837835743133699
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Feb 24, 2022 15:40
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- i am harry
- Oct 14, 2003
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i think cspam is just the embrace of chaotic neutrality
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Feb 24, 2022 15:40
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- vyelkin
- Jan 2, 2011
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This isn't me, someone posted it in D&D:
I have become convinced that C-Spam has essentially become infiltrated by fascists who use left wing talking points and ideology to push people towards fascism.
The invasion of the Ukraine by Russia has no excuse under any leftist frame of thought. Putin’s Russia is not a leftist state in any way or form. It functions as a far-right Oligarchic Kleptocracy where the power of the capitalist Oligarchic corporations are protected completely by the state and by all rule of law. It is in no way an effective Democracy, and opposing party members are poisoned or arrested on trumped up charges.
Within the school of leftist thought you may claim that functionally the United States is the same, I believe there are quite big differences in terms of having somewhat more open elections and allowing freedom of opposing party members. Eitherway, leftists all agree that nothing about the United States political and economical system is “Good.” How you could point to a foreign economic and political system, which is much more unequal, and extremely worse for the proletariat masses as somehow being better because it opposes Westernism is the height of hypocrisy.
The invasion of Iraq was extremely illegal and wrong, but for all it’s bad, at the core of it’s government Sadam Hussein was a dictator that ruled without any elections and without the will of the masses. The only person that directed the nation's policy was him. Alternatively, Ukraine is a nation with an elected president, who represents at least marginally the will of people. The majority of Ukranians want to ally themselves with the west and NATO. Their right to self-determination means they should have every right to do so, just as much as Mexico should have every right to ally itself with China and Russia if its people so desired and elected politicians who would enact such a policy.
Beyond that the justification for war is grossly wrong. There may be Neonazi’s active in Ukraine. There are also Neonazi’s active in Russia, in the US, in nearly every country in Europe, in pretty much every country on the globe. The ideology of Russia is not far from the Neonazi, Putin and the Russian Military differ little from Hitler in their overarching ideology, and only in how willing he is to voice his beliefs publicly. Their concepts come directly from fascist books such as The Foundation of Geopolitics. Fascist politicians are extremely influential in Russian politics. Their main goal has been to push fascism throughout the world. On the world stage there can be no doubt. Beyond the Bourgeoisie, Russia represents the old system - From Monarchism to Imperialism to Feudalism. They are not a friend of the working class in any way or form, and the goal of Russia is to retrench the world back towards reactionary ideologies and nationalism by creating an alliance of fascist nationalist states similar to their own.
Saying you are invading Ukraine to denazify it is like saying you are invading Chile to decommunize it. Recent elections there did involve a coalition with communist parties, for example.
Russians activity in Syria leaves little imagination or justification to the effect that they represent the entrenched upper classes. The Syrian war was essentially a class conflict, brought on by a famine in the countryside that pushed the poor impoverished agricultors into the cities who were summarily ignored by the Syrian Dictator Bashar-Al Assad. The war started due to class conflict between the poor impoverished masses and the capitalist Dictatorship rulers. Russia could have supported left-leaning groups such as the YPG and other organizations focused on improving the conditions of the poor in Syria via socialism. They did not because they do not represent leftism nor are friends of leftists in any way or form. Russia will always side with the bourgeoisie and ruling classes and if you continue to support them and they win they will be happy to enact fascist dictatorships throughout the world.
When you defend the invasion of Ukraine you are essentially defending fascism. You are defending a reactionary response to democracy. You are defending Russian Imperialism, Russian Oligarchy, Nationalism and Fascism. There is no way around it.
For as much as you may hate NATO and the US or the West there is no defense for Russia and their actions here. There is nothing leftist about this and if members of C-Spam are defending the Russian invasion of the Ukraine they are defending fascism and inviting its spread through Europe, the US and the rest of the world. I have serious doubts that any of the posters who defend these things are actual leftists, if anything I believe they are fascists who have infiltrated the forums long ago and use left-wing talking points to push fascism. We can see that throughout the internet this has been a common tactic used by Fascists on other social media networks and forums.
In the days pre-internet, when thought was printed, the spread of news took forever - and the quantity of opinions was limited. Freedom of speech was essential. Just as with guns, we have evolved, in the past we had invented simple revolvers, and they may be acceptable for some self defense use. But as technology has advanced so have weapons, instead of revolvers we have AR-15s and semi-automatic weapons in the hands of common people who use them in ways that are irresponsible and dangerous. These weapons of mass war don’t belong in the hands of common people. As weapons technology has advanced so has the internet and social media. In this day and age freedom of mass speech and spread of misinformation from groups with very little actual power is as dangerous as a machine-gun.
I call on Jeffrey and the rest of SA to either shut down C-SPAM or investigate and ban potentially subversive fascist posters in that forum. They are not doing anyone any good and they are in fact potentially pushing people down a pigeonhole that radicalizes them towards far-right ideologies. I say this from personal experience. This is dangerous.
thanks, I hate it
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Feb 24, 2022 15:40
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- Dreylad
- Jun 19, 2001
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I disagree pretty strongly with some perspectives itt, but that post is nuts.
i keep saying it to people whenever i see people complaining about cspam in other forums, if you have serious concerns about cspam you can pm me, or pretty much any of the mods and we can hash it out. it's all good. goons are weird as hell
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Feb 24, 2022 15:41
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- Woke Mind Virus
- Aug 22, 2005
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Lol that American leftists will forever be called Putin sympathizers
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Feb 24, 2022 15:41
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- frankenfreak
- Feb 16, 2007
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I SCORED 85% ON A QUIZ ABOUT MONDAY NIGHT RAW AND ALL I GOT WAS THIS LOUSY TEXT
#bastionboogerbrigade
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This isn't me, someone posted it in D&D:
I have become convinced that C-Spam has essentially become infiltrated by fascists who use left wing talking points and ideology to push people towards fascism.
The invasion of the Ukraine by Russia has no excuse under any leftist frame of thought. Putin’s Russia is not a leftist state in any way or form. It functions as a far-right Oligarchic Kleptocracy where the power of the capitalist Oligarchic corporations are protected completely by the state and by all rule of law. It is in no way an effective Democracy, and opposing party members are poisoned or arrested on trumped up charges.
Within the school of leftist thought you may claim that functionally the United States is the same, I believe there are quite big differences in terms of having somewhat more open elections and allowing freedom of opposing party members. Eitherway, leftists all agree that nothing about the United States political and economical system is “Good.” How you could point to a foreign economic and political system, which is much more unequal, and extremely worse for the proletariat masses as somehow being better because it opposes Westernism is the height of hypocrisy.
The invasion of Iraq was extremely illegal and wrong, but for all it’s bad, at the core of it’s government Sadam Hussein was a dictator that ruled without any elections and without the will of the masses. The only person that directed the nation's policy was him. Alternatively, Ukraine is a nation with an elected president, who represents at least marginally the will of people. The majority of Ukranians want to ally themselves with the west and NATO. Their right to self-determination means they should have every right to do so, just as much as Mexico should have every right to ally itself with China and Russia if its people so desired and elected politicians who would enact such a policy.
Beyond that the justification for war is grossly wrong. There may be Neonazi’s active in Ukraine. There are also Neonazi’s active in Russia, in the US, in nearly every country in Europe, in pretty much every country on the globe. The ideology of Russia is not far from the Neonazi, Putin and the Russian Military differ little from Hitler in their overarching ideology, and only in how willing he is to voice his beliefs publicly. Their concepts come directly from fascist books such as The Foundation of Geopolitics. Fascist politicians are extremely influential in Russian politics. Their main goal has been to push fascism throughout the world. On the world stage there can be no doubt. Beyond the Bourgeoisie, Russia represents the old system - From Monarchism to Imperialism to Feudalism. They are not a friend of the working class in any way or form, and the goal of Russia is to retrench the world back towards reactionary ideologies and nationalism by creating an alliance of fascist nationalist states similar to their own.
Saying you are invading Ukraine to denazify it is like saying you are invading Chile to decommunize it. Recent elections there did involve a coalition with communist parties, for example.
Russians activity in Syria leaves little imagination or justification to the effect that they represent the entrenched upper classes. The Syrian war was essentially a class conflict, brought on by a famine in the countryside that pushed the poor impoverished agricultors into the cities who were summarily ignored by the Syrian Dictator Bashar-Al Assad. The war started due to class conflict between the poor impoverished masses and the capitalist Dictatorship rulers. Russia could have supported left-leaning groups such as the YPG and other organizations focused on improving the conditions of the poor in Syria via socialism. They did not because they do not represent leftism nor are friends of leftists in any way or form. Russia will always side with the bourgeoisie and ruling classes and if you continue to support them and they win they will be happy to enact fascist dictatorships throughout the world.
When you defend the invasion of Ukraine you are essentially defending fascism. You are defending a reactionary response to democracy. You are defending Russian Imperialism, Russian Oligarchy, Nationalism and Fascism. There is no way around it.
For as much as you may hate NATO and the US or the West there is no defense for Russia and their actions here. There is nothing leftist about this and if members of C-Spam are defending the Russian invasion of the Ukraine they are defending fascism and inviting its spread through Europe, the US and the rest of the world. I have serious doubts that any of the posters who defend these things are actual leftists, if anything I believe they are fascists who have infiltrated the forums long ago and use left-wing talking points to push fascism. We can see that throughout the internet this has been a common tactic used by Fascists on other social media networks and forums.
In the days pre-internet, when thought was printed, the spread of news took forever - and the quantity of opinions was limited. Freedom of speech was essential. Just as with guns, we have evolved, in the past we had invented simple revolvers, and they may be acceptable for some self defense use. But as technology has advanced so have weapons, instead of revolvers we have AR-15s and semi-automatic weapons in the hands of common people who use them in ways that are irresponsible and dangerous. These weapons of mass war don’t belong in the hands of common people. As weapons technology has advanced so has the internet and social media. In this day and age freedom of mass speech and spread of misinformation from groups with very little actual power is as dangerous as a machine-gun.
I call on Jeffrey and the rest of SA to either shut down C-SPAM or investigate and ban potentially subversive fascist posters in that forum. They are not doing anyone any good and they are in fact potentially pushing people down a pigeonhole that radicalizes them towards far-right ideologies. I say this from personal experience. This is dangerous.
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Feb 24, 2022 15:41
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- Adbot
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ADBOT LOVES YOU
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Jun 8, 2024 07:16
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- Dreylad
- Jun 19, 2001
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yes I am the south american queer communist that actually is a cryptofascist to make you americans join the proud boys
the fbi command structure is so weird
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Feb 24, 2022 15:42
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Feb 24, 2022 15:32
