(Thread IKs:
fart simpson)
|
Fly Molo posted:was minsk II still on the table hm yes thinking killing a bunch of Ukrainians is bad means the west is blameless
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 17:43
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 19:52 |
|
|
WoodrowSkillson posted:very low bar to clear, but fine, not much smarter lol. my working theory is wealth and success gives u brain worms so the US has more of them 
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 17:43
|
|
|
Sheng-Ji Yang posted:Media keeps on saying this is the first large conventional war since ww2 but iran-iraq war def qualifies. Could also point to korean war. US media and intelligentsia are braindead
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 17:43
|
|
|
Geopolitics, don't touch the stuff. Not even once
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 17:43
|
|
|
dont really understand any MLs still trying to defend this war. The first 30 mins of his declaration of war was putin crying about lenin & stalin & the nationalities policies of the Soviet Union and promising to finish decommunization lol
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 17:43
|
|
|
yeah the idea that any russian government would willingly allow ukraine to join a hostile military alliance is kinda bonkers thinking they already have guns pointed at them from every direction
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 17:43
|
|
|
MLSM posted:My understanding is You have a lovely understanding about the history of the region ok, so what they said + revanchism
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 17:43
|
|
|
Frosted Flake posted:Are you joking? NATO on their borders through a closer relationship with THEE Ukraine is a military threat which is why, when diplomacy failed, it was met with military force. Ukraine was not in NATO. If Ukraine was in NATO, that would not justify military invasion.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 17:44
|
|
|
brugroffil posted:The diplomatic resolution was to not build up forces and then to not send them over the border. Russia does not actually need to intervene with the breakaway areas and create two new countries out of them. so if russia won’t let ukraine join NATO, like they’ve been very openly saying for 8 years, which other diplomatic avenues were still open for that? wasn’t it irresponsible for the West to lead on ukraine then not back then up?
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 17:44
|
|
|
Sheng-Ji Yang posted:dont really understand any MLs still trying to defend this war. The first 30 mins of his declaration of war was putin crying about lenin & stalin & the nationalities policies of the Soviet Union and promising to finish decommunization lol Hey buddy are you familiar with the last 30 years of nato expansion towards russia that might have something to do with it lol
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 17:44
|
|
|
Lastgirl posted:why would you Ignoring western intelligence is usually a safe bet, but Putin himself repeatedly and clearly stated his intentions, demanded diplomatic concessions, and said what he would do if diplomacy reached a dead end. If he did nothing, he would look like a chump, and there was no good reason to just bluff and do nothing afterwards. I'd still be surprised if there is any kind of persistent ground invasion. A more reasonable plan might be to force diplomatic concessions after a short air campaign and special forces activities. But idk, without a ground occupation the Ukrainian govt may not cave, and Putin has kind of worked himself into a position where he may feel he has no alternative. I really don't see what the endgame here is, though. This action will drive every former soviet country not named Belarus further into the arms of NATO and the west, further militarize the region, further isolate the Russian economy, and essentially cement in place & accelerate the encirclement of Russia by NATO. Ukraine itself, regardless of the outcome here, is going to be more, not less hostile to Russia, and it's questionable whether Russia can actually take or hold the western part of the country on any long term basis. It seems the end state here is "everything even worse for Russia than 6 months ago, but with possibly Ukraine east of the Dnieper with a nominally more friendly government, for now".
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 17:45
|
|
|
Karl Barks posted:Geopolitics, don't touch the stuff. Not even once This threads gonna get a Lot more funny as more Americans start posting in it as they realize what's happening
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 17:45
|
|
|
brugroffil posted:The diplomatic resolution was to not build up forces and then to not send them over the border. Russia does not actually need to intervene with the breakaway areas and create two new countries out of them. Yes it does - to prevent NATO ascension. The breakaways were the first, rushed attempted in 2014. Minsk II stalling risked the threat remaining, it had to be dealt with. The military build up was part of trying to reach a diplomatic resolution. Do you think it’s like the West Wing when everybody appeals to Liberal virtues? No - mobilization and wargames are the diplomatic equivalent of “this is worth going to war for us, please negotiate”. Zelensky gave them the finger over and over and over again.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 17:45
|
|
|
MLSM posted:Hey buddy are you familiar with the last 30 years of nato expansion towards russia that might have something to do with it lol sure but maybe don’t solve that by invading another country
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 17:45
|
|
|
I don't think Russia should get a veto on whether an independent country wants to join NATO. There were certainly dumb things NATO/western countries have done, and have had their own missteps. They don't justify a military invasion of another country or the demand to create new independent countries out of that country.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 17:45
|
|
|
brugroffil posted:Ukraine was not in NATO. If Ukraine was in NATO, that would not justify military invasion. Lol this guy is so ignorant.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 17:45
|
|
|
The other thread is wild just full on bloodlust that makes the coolzone at the peak of the protests look normal. Sicko poo poo and those pussies still wont pull up in the Ukraine to join their nazi ilk.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 17:45
|
|
|
Harry Potter on Ice posted:This threads gonna get a Lot more funny as more Americans start posting in it as they realize what's happening I eagerly await the meltdowns that are going to happen itt.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 17:45
|
|
|
i do not think anyone here does not think the west goaded russia into this by expanding nato and loving about in ukraine since euromaidan
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 17:46
|
|
|
Torpor posted:sure but maybe don’t solve that by invading another country So they should have waited until Ukraine joined a military alliance with nuclear weapons then ?
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 17:46
|
|
|
            
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 17:46
|
|
|
Did you all know that putin is bad and very right winged?
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 17:46
|
|
|
WoodrowSkillson posted:hm yes thinking killing a bunch of Ukrainians is bad means the west is blameless no but this is the end result of a long, open, and very concerted push by the US media, diplomats, and advisors to push Russia into doing exactly this. including preemptive sanctions, sending more anti-tank and anti-air weapons to ukraine, and cutting diplomatic ties one by one. their dipshit plan succeeded, unfortunately now a bunch of ukranians are gonna die so langley can brag about pwning their enemies. it’s gross and it didn’t have to play out this way
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 17:47
|
|
|
brugroffil posted:I don't think Russia should get a veto on whether an independent country wants to join NATO. calling ukraine an independent country, good grief, please educate yourself
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 17:47
|
|
|
dead gay comedy forums posted:ahahahaha oh my god
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 17:47
|
|
|
brugroffil posted:I don't think Russia should get a veto on whether an independent country wants to join NATO. hey buddy I think you meant to be posting in GBS
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 17:47
|
|
|
tldr
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 17:47
|
|
|
AnimeIsTrash posted:Did you all know that putin is bad and very right winged? hosed up
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 17:48
|
|
|
MLSM posted:So they should have waited until Ukraine joined a military alliance with nuclear weapons then ? Maybe everyone loving sucks but right-wingers doing an imperialism is always bad
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 17:48
|
|
|
John Charity Spring posted:it doesn't and no-one says it does We must be reading different threads
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 17:48
|
|
|
Terminal autist posted:The other thread is wild just full on bloodlust that makes the coolzone at the peak of the protests look normal. Yeah there are some posts that have pretty clearly crossed the line imo.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 17:48
|
|
|
Fly Molo posted:no but this is the end result of a long, open, and very concerted push by the US media, diplomats, and advisors to push Russia into doing exactly this. including preemptive sanctions, sending more anti-tank and anti-air weapons to ukraine, and cutting diplomatic ties one by one. yeah, this whole thing loving sucks, and originates with the west's actions, but im not going to just think putin had no other choice. NATO was not going to invade Russia, MAD still exists.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 17:48
|
|
|
Frosted Flake posted:Yes it does - to prevent NATO ascension. The breakaways were the first, rushed attempted in 2014. Minsk II stalling risked the threat remaining, it had to be dealt with. I don't think "this country will join NATO" justifies Russian invasion and overthrow of their government. Ultimately force rules at the end of the day so it doesn't matter what's "justified" or not, but it was Putin's choice to invade. I'm also not sure that there's good reason to believe that even full Minsk 2 and NS2 coming online would be enough. The rhetoric and demands from Putin over the last couple of weeks are way more expansive than that. WoodrowSkillson posted:yeah, this whole thing loving sucks, and originates with the west's actions, but im not going to just think putin had no other choice. NATO was not going to invade Russia, MAD still exists. Yeah this basically. There is plenty of room for criticism of the west's actions over the past decades, but this is not a "defensive" invasion by Russia and there's no justification for it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 17:48
|
|
|
WoodrowSkillson posted:i do not think anyone here does not think the west goaded russia into this by expanding nato and loving about in ukraine since euromaidan there have been ton of posts basically saying that putin is only doing this because he is a deranged lunatic.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 17:48
|
|
|
Good news! With raytheon's PeaceMaker™ Mk. V Guided Munitions Delivery System, you can!
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 17:49
|
|
|
MLSM posted:Hey buddy are you familiar with the last 30 years of nato expansion towards russia that might have something to do with it lol Appreciating the strategic encirclement and isolation of Russia by the west is important to understand the geopolitical basis of Russia's actions--as opposed to treating them like some inscrutable Mordor. It's possible to do that without, in an extremely stupid and misguided way, sympathizing with the Russian state as some kind of anti-imperialist or leftist influence in the world. But, leftists are, as with everyone else, ~80% loving idiots, and live in a world they are fundamentally incapable of understanding, so here we are.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 17:49
|
|
|
Fly Molo posted:no but this is the end result of a long, open, and very concerted push by the US media, diplomats, and advisors to push Russia into doing exactly this. including preemptive sanctions, sending more anti-tank and anti-air weapons to ukraine, and cutting diplomatic ties one by one. it isn’t super hard to denounce invading another country. Russia was not bound by the string of fate to invade, it was a choice by Putin.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 17:49
|
|
|
I don’t think signing Minsk or anything would have made a difference long term. Putin made it pretty clear that he considers Ukrain's existence as a state to be a mistake in need of correction, and one of his advisors was saying back in December that they were going to be taking action this month. The only two acceptable outcomes to Moscow are going to be annexation or a return to client state status (with likely some territorial concessions now). Even if a diplomatic outcome had been reached the Russians would have just shifted strategy to get the outcomes they found acceptable.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 17:50
|
|
|
https://mobile.twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1496884388868595714
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 17:51
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 19:52 |
|
|
If your "I'm a Marxist and I hope Russians loving BLEEEEEEEEED" post keeps getting quoted by people saying "I'm not a Marxist, but I totally agree!" then maybe it's time for some self-reflection jfc
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2022 17:51
|
|