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Groovelord Neato posted:One of the accessibility experts blocked me when I asked if someone's memory is so shot they can't write stuff down how would they beat an enemy or boss without prompts for every attack. I wasn't even mean about it lmao it really seems like "game accessibility" has really been hosed up from its original meaning of "compensate for things a given player might legitimately be incapable of doing" to "compensate for things a player is actually quite capable of doing, but they don' wannnaaaa"
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Feb 24, 2022 18:27
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Cowcaster posted:it really seems like "game accessibility" has really been hosed up from its original meaning of "compensate for things a player might legitimately be incapable of doing" to "compensate for things a player is actually quite capable of doing, but they don' wannnaaaa" You know there's quite a big loving range of neurodiversity and physical needs right?
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Feb 24, 2022 18:28
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I played through Dark Souls on release on PS3 and survived Blighttown. I can handle a loving microstutter, just give me the game.
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Feb 24, 2022 18:28
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Leon Sumbitches posted:Is it possible to preload the day-1 patch? Are Steam's servers going to crash due to everyone trying to download at the exact same time? Generally the day 1 patches are baked into the preload, that's why they don't open up preloads until the days before launch
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Feb 24, 2022 18:29
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stev posted:You know there's quite a big loving range of neurodiversity and physical needs right? and when those neurodiversity and physical needs render it impossible to "write things down yourself to keep track" do you think being able to play elden ring is the first priority in that situation
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Feb 24, 2022 18:30
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ymgve posted:Generally the day 1 patches are baked into the preload, that's why they don't open up preloads until the days before launch Ah, that's great if so. I know that the preload was available yesterday, but the patch notes weren't released until this AM, so thought it would be a seperate dl. Thankye
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Feb 24, 2022 18:31
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ooooohhh the discourse i saw a thumbnail video of the faith guy with the extremely cool black cloak and now I'm thinking of betraying my typical dex ways for that amazing cloak
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Feb 24, 2022 18:34
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I'm going all-in on int/faith I think.
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Feb 24, 2022 18:37
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Kaddish posted:I'm going all-in on int I think. One of us. One of us.
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Feb 24, 2022 18:38
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With the game about to release soon I want to take a second to thank all fellow hollowed itt for making the hypetrain the ride it's been. See all ye tarnished in the lands between, stutter or no. Stay safe and pour an estus out for fromsoft fans out there in the real world who have other things to worry about right now due to loving autocrats, warmongers and fascists. gently caress em.
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Feb 24, 2022 18:38
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Elden Ring is 50 fps literally unplayable 0/10 game of the year
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Feb 24, 2022 18:40
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Everyone playing early please report back on how fun magic and/or miracles are this time around At least one review suggested that (gameplay balance stuff, is this a spoiler???) miracles actually kinda suck except for the good ones from the network test but he also didn't talk about non-attack spells and whether buffs/heals/utility spells are good
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Feb 24, 2022 18:42
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stev posted:You know there's quite a big loving range of neurodiversity and physical needs right? Yeah there's a huge range. I have a developmentally disabled gamer in my life who is relatively high functioning but can't read or do math and has bad reflexes. I have to help him with all sorts of games that never seem to get the difficulty discourse. Funny how that works.
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Feb 24, 2022 18:44
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Cowcaster posted:it really seems like "game accessibility" has really been hosed up from its original meaning of "compensate for things a given player might legitimately be incapable of doing" to "compensate for things a player is actually quite capable of doing, but they don' wannnaaaa" As a person with legally-protected memory-related and vision disabilities (and also me saying this does not nullify the opinions of anyone on the contrary side of this discussion bc I realize everyone's abilities and preferences are different), I've always been curious about something related to this; none of the quests are required to complete the game, they're all optional. At what point does the expectation of accessibility stop? Do people expect accessibility options to reach every possible bit of optional content in games? Like, I almost always miss the quests. Sometimes I stumble across them after playing the game for 100+ hours and that's a very nice surprise. I never feel like I'm missing out on the game by missing the quests - I can watch a video or follow a guide if I really want to experience them. I wouldn't want a quest log myself but using accessibility as a reason for wanting a quest log seems silly to me because the quests are effectively just easter eggs that a toooooon of players will never find, regardless of their ability, and that's kind of the point of their design. deep dish peat moss fucked around with this message at 18:48 on Feb 24, 2022 |
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Feb 24, 2022 18:45
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Polo-Rican posted:games have morphed into work... literally just checklists of busywork bullshit. so people are confused when games come out that are actually games (you just freely play with them however you want) and don't attempt to emulate work judging by how many people play souls games by ticking through a walkthrough, it seems some people really do want this
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Feb 24, 2022 18:45
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Harrow posted:Everyone playing early please report back on how fun magic and/or miracles are this time around all you need is SWORD
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Feb 24, 2022 18:46
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i don't think i've ever finished a quest in a souls game and wouldn't even know they existed without outside sources
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Feb 24, 2022 18:46
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I don't see how the game would be hurt by having a way to track quests. Doesn't need to be on the UI or visible all the time, but having it as an optional thing you can access. Like how you can choose to never use the map. So like, why not? If it helps more people get into and experience the game than might not otherwise then that's a good thing. Some people like games that force them to use a guide to experience all the content, some people don't. It's not going to make or break the game either way but it's not exactly an evil or unreasonable ask, people enjoy games differently
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Feb 24, 2022 18:49
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I think a big reason that From Software games end up at the center of this game difficulty debate is because of how mainstream they've (somehow) become. These are weird games and a lot of the games in which they're weird make them difficult for some people to wrap their heads around, often for reasons that have nothing to do with disability or accessibility needs. These are games that are very much Not For Everyone that have gotten so big that it looks like they're supposed to be For Everyone. I've brought up SaGa Frontier in this context before, but that's a weird-rear end game with obscure quests, weird mechanics, and all sorts of rough edges that make it the wonderful little gem that it is. But it's also small, relatively unknown, and easy for someone to look at and go, "ah, this is Not For Me, and that's okay." From Software games are big, beautiful, and mainstream enough to be part of popular gaming discourse, and so people expect them to be For Everyone, and get frustrated when it turns out they aren't.
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Feb 24, 2022 18:49
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Zeron posted:I don't see how the game would be hurt by having a way to track quests. Doesn't need to be on the UI or visible all the time, but having it as an optional thing you can access. Like how you can choose to never use the map. So like, why not? If it helps more people get into and experience the game than might not otherwise then that's a good thing. Some people like games that force them to use a guide to experience all the content, some people don't. It's not going to make or break the game either way but it's not exactly an evil or unreasonable ask, people enjoy games differently If Elden Ring's quests are anything like Souls quests, even an in-game tracker probably wouldn't help you "experience all the content." They probably have a bunch of obscure little triggers and fail states and bad endings you can end up in because you killed Boss A before Boss Q and didn't know it would progress quests in some invisible way. If anything I bet having a quest tracker would make them more frustrating because it would imply that you're expected to complete all the quests, when, in all likelihood, you're not really expected to even find many of them on a first blind playthrough.
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Feb 24, 2022 18:51
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Quest talk derailing the hype train
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Feb 24, 2022 18:54
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Zeron posted:I don't see how the game would be hurt by having a way to track quests. Doesn't need to be on the UI or visible all the time, but having it as an optional thing you can access. Like how you can choose to never use the map. So like, why not? If it helps more people get into and experience the game than might not otherwise then that's a good thing. Some people like games that force them to use a guide to experience all the content, some people don't. It's not going to make or break the game either way but it's not exactly an evil or unreasonable ask, people enjoy games differently for some reason i feel like the souls series isn't really hurting for getting more people into it and experiencing them considering they've permanently altered a decades worth of videogame zeitgeist with their popularity
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Feb 24, 2022 18:55
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Zeron posted:I don't see how the game would be hurt by having a way to track quests. Doesn't need to be on the UI or visible all the time, but having it as an optional thing you can access. Like how you can choose to never use the map. So like, why not? If it helps more people get into and experience the game than might not otherwise then that's a good thing. Some people like games that force them to use a guide to experience all the content, some people don't. It's not going to make or break the game either way but it's not exactly an evil or unreasonable ask, people enjoy games differently It has potential to harm the game early on around launch time. A big part of this series for many of its players is the community side of things right around launch - rumors, mystery, intrigue, people trying weird things and finding out 'holy poo poo the world reacts to that'. The lack of information leading players to compare notes and work together to try and find new things is one of the raddest parts of the game. And yeah it would be possible to develop a quest log that spoils as little as possible and obfuscates facts and things like that, but either way the quest log is still taking a lot of the nebulous mystery of the game's NPCs and crystallizing it in a verifiable thing, whether you as a single player were using it or not. Kind of like how MMOs were infinitely more fun before everyone just datamined and knew everything about them, being completely lost in an alien environment is a part of oldschool game design that barely exists these days and at least for me, that exact kind of oldschool game design and lack of assisting tools is exactly what draws me to this game. Asking for a quest log, even if it's optional, is misunderstanding the series. Yeah it would give it wider reach and let it reach new audiences, but it would be a step away from what makes these games special.
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Feb 24, 2022 18:55
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have you considered that making your soulsgame more like skyrim, it would be as popular as skyrim?
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Feb 24, 2022 18:56
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Cowcaster posted:it really seems like "game accessibility" has really been hosed up from its original meaning of "compensate for things a given player might legitimately be incapable of doing" to "compensate for things a player is actually quite capable of doing, but they don' wannnaaaa" There's a specific flavor of terminally online white cishet person who can't participate in any argument without first coming up with a (possibly imaginary) token minority so they can align their personal bullshit with some progresive cause. See also insane kpop teenagers who claim that criticizing their favorite star for making a bad song or saying a homophobic slur or w/e is anti-asian racism.
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Feb 24, 2022 18:56
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my opinion on accessibility is that all (single player) games should have accessibility focused cheat engine menu discourse is bad tho and i want to it to stop
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Feb 24, 2022 18:56
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Zeron posted:I don't see how the game would be hurt by having a way to track quests. Doesn't need to be on the UI or visible all the time, but having it as an optional thing you can access. Like how you can choose to never use the map. So like, why not? If it helps more people get into and experience the game than might not otherwise then that's a good thing. Some people like games that force them to use a guide to experience all the content, some people don't. It's not going to make or break the game either way but it's not exactly an evil or unreasonable ask, people enjoy games differently Something like RDR2's journal might be a good compromise, like a diegetic little book that adds a page with "met a weird little hosed up man in a cave today" whenever you stumble across something like that, maybe you get a little sketch to go along with it. Then you can flip through the book 70 hours later and suddenly remember about the weird dude in the cave and you go back there and he's dead and then you have to look up how to do the quest online anyway.
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Feb 24, 2022 18:57
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Mr. Funktastic posted:https://twitter.com/Nibellion/status/1496865957255553031?t=1BopYQrPnztMBGcDF9MdTg&s=19 i bet no one is gonna notice this poo poo just like no one noticed any, ahem "frame pacing" (word that isnt real) issues in bloodborne until DF poisoned people.
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Feb 24, 2022 18:57
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Zeron posted:I don't see how the game would be hurt by having a way to track quests. Doesn't need to be on the UI or visible all the time, but having it as an optional thing you can access. Like how you can choose to never use the map. So like, why not? If it helps more people get into and experience the game than might not otherwise then that's a good thing. Some people like games that force them to use a guide to experience all the content, some people don't. It's not going to make or break the game either way but it's not exactly an evil or unreasonable ask, people enjoy games differently them mfers can go play another game, then. there's plenty of products for them to consume that have little laundry lists for them to work through, let us have our one bigger developer that makes more interesting poo poo
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Feb 24, 2022 18:58
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Cowcaster posted:and when those neurodiversity and physical needs render it impossible to "write things down yourself to keep track" do you think being able to play elden ring is the first priority in that situation Oh is neurodiversity the new safe word for moron?
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Feb 24, 2022 18:58
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Most side quests don’t even matter in From games
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Feb 24, 2022 19:00
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Au Revoir Shosanna posted:Something like RDR2's journal might be a good compromise, like a diegetic little book that adds a page with "met a weird little hosed up man in a cave today" whenever you stumble across something like that, maybe you get a little sketch to go along with it.  This would be a rad compromise.
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Feb 24, 2022 19:00
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For my closing statement I will say that asking for an actual skyrim-style quest log in Elden Ring (idk if anyone is doing that) would be like asking for an edited version of a horror movie that has all the scary scenes cut out 
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Feb 24, 2022 19:02
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someone explain to me what a quest journal for meeting kaathe in ds1 would look like, lol
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Feb 24, 2022 19:03
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Willfrey posted:Oh is neurodiversity the new safe word for moron? it's a word that means something but is often abused to mean something else
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Feb 24, 2022 19:03
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Vikar Jerome posted:i bet no one is gonna notice this poo poo just like no one noticed any, ahem "frame pacing" (word that isnt real) issues in bloodborne until DF poisoned people. I absolutely noticed and I have no idea what DF is lol
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Feb 24, 2022 19:04
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deep dish peat moss posted:For my closing statement I will say that asking for an actual skyrim-style quest log in Elden Ring (idk if anyone is doing that) would be like asking for an edited version of a horror movie that has all the scary scenes cut out i think a closer comparison would be a netflix horror film with an optional checkbox that enables a warning icon at the top of the screen that tells you whenever a jump scare is about to happen
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Feb 24, 2022 19:04
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I mean it was noticeable on Cohhs stream when it was freezing and causing deaths, even through a restart of the game. So I don't think nobody will notice.
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Feb 24, 2022 19:05
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I'm gonna notice because I'm not a moron and I can notice things when they happen in front of me.
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Feb 24, 2022 19:07
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grieving for Gandalf posted:them mfers can go play another game, then. there's plenty of products for them to consume that have little laundry lists for them to work through, let us have our one bigger developer that makes more interesting poo poo This is what I don’t get about the complainers - just don’t play it. I pretty much only play FromSoft games when it comes to single player stuff because I like the way they do things. Those folks have every other developer doing what they like and Horizon 2 just came out.
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Feb 24, 2022 19:07
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