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Alchenar posted:I doubt Ukraine is currently being paint transit fees by Russia. I also doubt that Ukraine is currently paying for the gas that they use. If Ukraine stopped gas deliveries through Ukraine, then Russia would end all gas deliveries to Ukraine full stop. Which they still might, but it's probably not as easy as just closing a tap. Nord Stream 2 is so contentious precisely because it would allow Russia to deliver more natural gas directly to Germany and not being dependent on Ukraine and other middlemen.
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Feb 25, 2022 12:35
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Private Speech posted:Also it's funny how everyone rags on EU but US also didn't sanction Russian oil or resource exports which is the most significant part of trade with them, largely for domestic political reasons. It's a US-centric forum and if there's one thing Americans love it's to poo poo on Europe.
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Feb 25, 2022 12:35
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Baconroll posted:Is Germany planning to remove its reliance on energy from Russia, or just continuing to pretend that gas is 'green' ? Until recently they were planning to become more reliant on it, with Nord Stream 2. Now there is at least signals going in the right direction, which in my view means zero gas purchase from Russia. quote:Germany's economy minister, Robert Habeck, told German public radio on Wednesday that his country can meet its energy needs without Russian gas. https://www.dw.com/en/economy-minister-says-germany-can-do-without-russian-gas/a-60883569
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Feb 25, 2022 12:36
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https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1497154062084681730?s=20&t=_ogf96U_KfBSBWLzjI9V0A Map of the battles going on around Kyiv. Red squares are active ground combat, red circles are bombardment, light red areas are where explosions have been heard, and dark red areas are where gunfire has been heard. The live stream I'm watching has cameras near that dark red area (which I think is the government district?) and while I've heard some gunfire, there's been next to no reaction of the people going through in cars or on foot.
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Feb 25, 2022 12:36
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There's, like, a lot of concrete on that thing though right. It'd take a lot more than even an errant tank shell to really damage it. Or maybe I'm just clinging to hope here
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Feb 25, 2022 12:36
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TheRat posted:It's a US-centric forum and if there's one thing Americans love it's to poo poo on Europe. I am european and that's precisely why I poo poo on EU more. 
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Feb 25, 2022 12:38
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cinci zoo sniper posted:It seems to be slowly moving that way. The real question is what Europe’s third largest economy, Italy, will do. 90% of their gas is Russian, which makes them by far the most exposed country on the continent in absolute terms. Is this right? For 2020 it seems like it's closer to 50%, which is still weird to me since they now have the pipeline from Azerbaijan and like 3 LNG terminals https://www.statista.com/statistics/787720/natural-gas-imports-by-country-of-origin-in-italy/
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Feb 25, 2022 12:39
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Hell yeah! https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1497173609957236738
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Feb 25, 2022 12:41
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Like literally felt despair over him not speaking with the Italian PM. I figured he was being repositioned due to the incursion, but it was definitely worrying.
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Feb 25, 2022 12:43
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Nenonen posted:I also doubt that Ukraine is currently paying for the gas that they use. If Ukraine stopped gas deliveries through Ukraine, then Russia would end all gas deliveries to Ukraine full stop. Which they still might, but it's probably not as easy as just closing a tap. I'm not sure on what the hell is happening, but Ukraine can buy gas in reverse mode from Slovakia/Hungary -- it's still Russian gas, but unless Russia stops selling it to Europe to gently caress over Ukraine, they will still have access to it
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Feb 25, 2022 12:43
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Content warning: first I thought there wasn't bodies here, but then I noticed there's a blurred bit at the end. So there's probably a body on ground in the video, but it's blurred out. Russian BM-21 destroyed in Kharkiv: https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1497173473566904324?cxt=HHwWiMC-sfDVg8cpAAAA Grads have a range of 20-40 km so I don't know if they'd been so close to frontline to be ambushed. It could have been Ukrainian counter-battery fire instead. Nenonen fucked around with this message at 12:47 on Feb 25, 2022 |
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Feb 25, 2022 12:44
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Ola posted:Until recently they were planning to become more reliant on it, with Nord Stream 2. Now there is at least signals going in the right direction, which in my view means zero gas purchase from Russia. Its more of a bargaining chip towards Russia than a 180 towards not buying any russian gas. Even if Germany doesn't need any russian gas anymore starting tomorrow they still want it for the low price to keep industrial production competitive. Germany will always buy russian gas.
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Feb 25, 2022 12:44
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God, his social media game is stronk! I really hope he stays in the country till the end. I cant imagine that ending well for him if he does, but the morale effect of him staying to face the Russians would be incalculable.
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Feb 25, 2022 12:46
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Somaen posted:Is this right? For 2020 it seems like it's closer to 50%, which is still weird to me since they now have the pipeline from Azerbaijan and like 3 LNG terminals I was wrong. I did haphazardly misread this article. quote:Italy imports 90% of its gas requirements, with Russia a key supplier. cinci zoo sniper fucked around with this message at 13:09 on Feb 25, 2022 |
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Feb 25, 2022 12:47
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Private Speech posted:Also it's funny how everyone rags on EU but US also didn't sanction Russian oil or resource exports which is the most significant part of trade with them, largely for domestic political reasons. How do you know what reason energy wasn't sanctioned? Could it be that the US didn't want to take energy out of the hands of the EU? We don't need Russia for oil, at all.
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Feb 25, 2022 12:48
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Young Freud posted:While it's likely contaminated dirt being exposed via lots of armor going through, the area around the Sarcophagus has been spiking as well. Yeah, about that: https://twitter.com/SirSaGGi/status/1497159688361816075
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Feb 25, 2022 12:48
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TheRat posted:https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1497119590245343238 Yeah, investors seriously overestimated the stiffness of the US, Germany's and Italy's spines. It's just a huge 1m long earthworm wriggling in there TheRat posted:Also Russian gas to Europe went uphttps://twitter.com/business/status/1497149774692298754 Tracks with what Putin said at the Summoning of the Oligarchs. Russia's interest in not damaging the world economic order correlates with the level of their level of involvement in it. Russia will continue to try to stay in it, and the world will oblige due to fear.
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Feb 25, 2022 12:50
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I will say, despite it all, I feel a tinge of satisfaction from the simple fact that even Putin, despite his obvious delusions of grandeur, will die one day. Money and power may be able to prolong his life, but death is inevitable. He WILL die. And knowing Russia, his legacy will be swept away within years of that death.
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Feb 25, 2022 12:51
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alg posted:How do you know what reason energy wasn't sanctioned? Could it be that the US didn't want to take energy out of the hands of the EU? We don't need Russia for oil, at all. From the U.S Treasury department statement about the sanctions: https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/jy0608 US Treasury posted:The sanctions and license package has been constructed to account for the challenges high energy prices pose to average citizens and doesn’t prevent banks from processing payments for them. With regards to an exemption for several resource sectors from the sanctions. IIRC the main concern is oil rather than gas. Private Speech fucked around with this message at 12:54 on Feb 25, 2022 |
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Feb 25, 2022 12:51
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Charlz Guybon posted:Only because they foolishly shut down their nuclear power plants That's demonstrably untrue, why keep repeating it?
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Feb 25, 2022 12:52
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fuctifino posted:Yeah, about that: The reply to that is pretty succinct. You can guess what is said... https://twitter.com/Dexruus/status/1496980580189147137?s=20&t=qm-Oz2-gC5arZFjMXPe24g BigglesSWE posted:I will say, despite it all, I feel a tinge of satisfaction from the simple fact that even Putin, despite his obvious delusions of grandeur, will die one day. Money and power may be able to prolong his life, but death is inevitable. He WILL die. And knowing Russia, his legacy will be swept away within years of that death. That day is probably coming sooner than he thinks.
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Feb 25, 2022 12:53
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Americans forget that gas central heating is a thing, and think it's all going to power plants.
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Feb 25, 2022 12:54
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Ola posted:Until recently they were planning to become more reliant on it, with Nord Stream 2. Now there is at least signals going in the right direction, which in my view means zero gas purchase from Russia. Nord Stream 2 doesn't change anything about how reliant the country is on Russian gas, it's just another pipeline. And Nord Stream 1 didn't protect Ukraine either, so all the people claiming routing gas through Ukraine would protect the country were entirely wrong. And transitioning away from natural gas has been a political goal for a while now, it's not a sudden change because Russia decided to invade.
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Feb 25, 2022 12:55
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alg posted:How do you know what reason energy wasn't sanctioned? Could it be that the US didn't want to take energy out of the hands of the EU? We don't need Russia for oil, at all. Well, need is a strong word, but a fuckton of Russian crude is bought by Europe, specifically by the Dutch, gets refined in Rotterdam mainly, and sold for a large profit. It's a huge part of the economy of multiple countries and the largest multinationals in the world (after the tech companies basically). The neoliberal governments of the EU will never stop buying Russian crude. Even if another source of oil could be provided for a similar price per barrel, it will likely be more difficult to transport, and it will definitely have a different composition. Which leads to a (significant) decrease in profit and downtime to change supply lines and refineries. Again, this will not be accepted by those same stakeholders.
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Feb 25, 2022 12:56
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Specifically regarding US imports of Russian oil: https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenroberts/2022/02/24/russia-is-united-states-top-source-of-imported-gasoline/?sh=6c8c87d31b18 Forbes posted:The United States imported more gasoline and other refined petroleum products from Russia than any other country in 2021.
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Feb 25, 2022 12:57
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Nothingtoseehere posted:Americans forget that gas central heating is a thing, and think it's all going to power plants. Gas like natural gas? We use that too. But we don't need Russia for it, which is what I was saying. We could have sanctioned it but probably wanted to leave that to the EU since they get theirs from Russia.
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Feb 25, 2022 12:57
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alg posted:How do you know what reason energy wasn't sanctioned? Could it be that the US didn't want to take energy out of the hands of the EU? We don't need Russia for oil, at all. Russia supplies 7% of crude oil imports to the US, it would absolutely affect the US as well.
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Feb 25, 2022 12:58
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https://twitter.com/rianru/status/1497177100943564803 Russian state media reporting that Putin is ready to begin negotiating.
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Feb 25, 2022 12:58
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TheRat posted:I don't share your optimism at all. I think it would cause riots and political upheaval. Yeah, this. Don't know about Germany, but I can't see domestic consequences going down well in France. The last time they thought petrol prices were too high, it started a nationwide unrest movement. It's pretty easy to call out 'limp bureaucrats', but they're juggling with a lot more than a keyboard, and every single sanction will have far reaching consequences for years. Were it up to me, we'd be nationalising oligarch assets, but then, that's just my naive thinking. There'd probably be issues/repercussions with that that I can't think of, and at the end of the day, I'm glad it's someone else's job to think this through. That said, it doesn't make it any less harrowing to see Ukraine pretty much abandoned to itself in the short-term...
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Feb 25, 2022 12:59
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Zelensky isn't pulling many punches when it comes to talking about how abandoned he feels. That foreign minister dude too. While obviously the end result here is that Zelensky's government gets deposed, I can't imagine any Ukranian leaders looking at the West quite as favourably as they had been even a week ago.
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Feb 25, 2022 13:00
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Nothingtoseehere posted:Americans forget that gas central heating is a thing, and think it's all going to power plants. I would be fine rationing heating for the next 2 years until we get more LNG terminals if that's what it meant to stop buying Russian gas. Europe is also wayyy warmer than most Americans tend to think; I've never seen anything remotely as cold as it gets every winter in the midwest, even high the Alps. I remember taking a photograph when my (American) car showed a temperature at 0°F, which was at the top of the highest winter-open pass in Switzerland, in late January. We already have systems to ration heat pretty well too--every building I've lived in has the gas heating shut off automatically when the outside temperature goes above... 12°C? 15°C? something like that. Just set gas heating to not work if the outside temperature is above 3° or something. I've also only lived in new buildings, not sure how common this is for places built in the pre-00s. E: Conversely I'd be much less happy to ration electricity, at least not for home or industrial use. I've spent time in enough time in Lebanon, and gently caress that. I can't power my phone by throwing an extra blanket on. Saladman fucked around with this message at 13:04 on Feb 25, 2022 |
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Feb 25, 2022 13:00
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Sir Bobert Fishbone posted:https://twitter.com/rianru/status/1497177100943564803 Yes but his negotiating position is that Ukraine surrenders and disarms. This is purely for domestic consumption to make it look like he's being reasonable.
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Feb 25, 2022 13:02
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For those that want to see details of import/export of goods to Russia, this is a wonderful source: https://oec.world/en/profile/country/rus Scroll down to make breakdowns per item and/or country. For instance, here's the breakdown of petroleum exports, refined and crude:  
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Feb 25, 2022 13:03
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Samopsa posted:For those that want to see details of import/export of goods to Russia, this is a wonderful source: The Netherlands (sorry, maybe that should just be "Netherlands") takes 10x more refined petroleum from Russia than Germany? I mean I don't doubt the data, just that's very surprising. What's the explanation?
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Feb 25, 2022 13:05
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Saladman posted:The Netherlands (sorry, maybe that should just be "Netherlands") takes 10x more refined petroleum from Russia than Germany? I mean I don't doubt the data, just that's very surprising. What's the explanation? The Dutch have a major oil company and the Germans don't.
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Feb 25, 2022 13:06
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FishMcCool posted:Yeah, this. Don't know about Germany, but I can't see domestic consequences going down well in France. The last time they thought petrol prices were too high, it started a nationwide unrest movement. Saladman posted:The Netherlands (sorry, maybe that should just be "Netherlands") takes 10x more refined petroleum from Russia than Germany? I mean I don't doubt the data, just that's very surprising. What's the explanation?
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Feb 25, 2022 13:07
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Saladman posted:The Netherlands (sorry, maybe that should just be "Netherlands") takes 10x more refined petroleum from Russia than Germany? I mean I don't doubt the data, just that's very surprising. What's the explanation? All those dildos. I'm sorry
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Feb 25, 2022 13:07
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Samopsa posted:For those that want to see details of import/export of goods to Russia, this is a wonderful source: Maybe it's because that's from 2019 whereas the Forbes numbers are from 2021? I don't think Forbes just makes poo poo up whole cloth. e: possibly pandemic-related, when oil consumption was way down
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Feb 25, 2022 13:08
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alg posted:How do you know what reason energy wasn't sanctioned? Could it be that the US didn't want to take energy out of the hands of the EU? We don't need Russia for oil, at all. Biden explicitly said he’s worried about domestic optics on petrol prices. As much oil as the US had access to, pulling the rug on Russian oil imports would’ve had ramifications.
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Feb 25, 2022 13:09
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Saladman posted:The Netherlands (sorry, maybe that should just be "Netherlands") takes 10x more refined petroleum from Russia than Germany? I mean I don't doubt the data, just that's very surprising. What's the explanation? The Netherlands is correct. Source: im dutch and hold a masters in chemical engineering I explained above. The Netherlands has a huge petrochemical industry combined with the 3rd largest port in the world, good relationships with basically the entire world, the lowest corporate taxes outside of Bermuda, a highly educated workforce, a great infrastructure for trains, trucks, and river-based transportation. A fuckton of the worlds oil will pass through the Netherlands at one point or the other. E: and yes this started with our own very rich gasfield in the north of the country, which has almost run dry (and causing earthquakes in the poor cities above the now empty caverns) but gave us a good 40 years of virtually free heating and a steady inflow of cash. We never really had our own major oil source, a couple of sea platforms but nothing mayor like Norway or something. Samopsa fucked around with this message at 13:13 on Feb 25, 2022 |
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Feb 25, 2022 13:10
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