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canada jezus posted:Has anyone effort posted about (early) cathay army comp? I got whooped in the mirror match as the favored daughter. Battle took forever as well. In the early game Dragon LLs are busted as hell and other Cathay Lords are weak. You can have Meow move ahead of your army and force an advantageous engagement and heal it off while their infantry gets bad charges and blobs, moves out of position, etc. Your ranged can get better focus off, your infantry will get their charges in on their infantry, you can fire your artillery or cast spells into the blob and if it starts to go bad Meow can change into a dragon and will automatically be flying after the six second animation. If you want Meow to provide her own blob destroying spell you'll want to level her for the spell Night Talons. Zhao wants Dragon Breath, Fire Wall, Constellation of the Dragon and/or Final Transmutation. All are great at AoE so it's your choice, though he can keep using Dragon Breath if he shifts to Dragon form. Meow is great at defense but a slow killer in early game. Don't neglect her huge range cheap snare spell, slowing and ranged focusing a cavalry ruins its day. Your artillery is also a big difference. Starting artillery is an enormous QoL feature on any army because you control the pace of engagement. Line your guys up at the minimum distance for your artillery to take free shots and experiment with weakening the enemy. If things are very even you can go for one good hit on as many enemy squads as you can get, or if they have a Very Good unit you can hit them 2+ times. After you shoot a zero artillery army a few times they will march to engage you if they were waiting for you before so you control pace of engagement and always get that free damage in. If things were even, pew pew, now they're not. This also helps a lot with fights where they're a little ahead of you. I've won fights I shouldn't against the likes of Greenskins because they had two black orcs but I focused tower and spell fire on them since everything else was T1-2 at best. Another way to tip the scales is to always maintain Balance on the campaign map. The Ancestral Warriors summon is fantastic. Basically a Jade Halberds unit with 75% damage reduction unless you throw them up against magic damage foes. Even then they do a great job even vs Tzeentch armies, just be sure to summon them on top of something you don't want shooting for the next 10+ seconds. AR won't account for this summon but you really will have 21 dudes in your stack and you can use this summon to snipe enemy artillery, backlines or with timing practice have them appear in front of closing cavalry and interrupt their charge with an anti-large halberd unit. They can also be thrown point blank into the approaching enemy front to make them blob and lose formation the same way your Dragon LL can. If you launch a good aoe spell into it though hitting them will shred them fast, so make it count or mind your aim. Speaking of Balance it's easy and important to maintain it. Ranged unit near Melee unit does it. Harmony is like a flat +6 Melee Defense for the front and +6 Reload for the ranged. Remember that any unit in Cathay provides harmony. You can place the balloon above a gap in the front if you're ranged light, etc. Meow or Zhao's presence makes the buffs better so that's +12 to The Good Stats if they're fighting with the front or chilling under say your Skyjunk at the start. This also means Cathay benefits enormously from forcing the enemy to meet them instead of you moving to meet them. I think Cathay also has a racial passive for holding their ground, not to mention the charge reflection their spears can get. Meow starts with Celestial Guard which are a T4 Spear Infantry and a T5 AP Crossbow. Celestial crossbows might be the best crossbows in the game. And as for an early unit summary: Peasant Longspears: Super cost effective spear chaff. When they hold their ground and fight in harmony they're going to hold like T2s. Huge unit size, anti-large, expendable, charge defense, if you're using a lot of them or following your Dragon LL around with a chaff stack you want at least one recruiting district with a paired yin/yang building for peasant recruiting because it's a free +6 rank and makes them cost next to nothing to initially recruit. Peasant Archers: Nothing special. Your standard T1 archers. Good archer play in even numbers always beats the AI so if you're having trouble practice your TW fundamentals. In this case have 2+ of your archers focus down their archers one at a time(make them break and run, don't chase them) when you're both in range of each other(you want the enemy to engage you!) Cathay relies primarily on ranged power to advance even in settlement fights so don't be afraid to have bulk P. Archers and to replace them. Better to have archers following a pair of Jade Swordsmen up a settlement corridor than to be short on harmony buddy pairings. Peasant Horsemen: If anybody ever tells you "cavalry bad" they don't use cavalry, I find. These guys are cheap and efficient, the "dogs" unit other factions have for running down and maintaining routing status(and making it broken) on significant enemy units, providing fast flanks, interrupt the enemy backline and they're all-stars with the new settlement play. If you have 1-4 Horsemen in your army and the settlement is wide open with multiple entrances you should play with splitting your guys up and using gaps to cap supply zones or their speed to draw enemy attention and just get out of there while your Dragon LL reinforced core advances and destroys splintered forces a piece at a time. I guess the issue with Cathay Cavalry is Jade Lancers add virtually nothing(+100 armor, great, but slower? Still bad stats? Oh no. At least they're "free" in garrisons sometimes!) and Longma are fantastic but T5 is a long way away from early game shenanigans. The other issue is it's almost impossible for Cathay cavalry to benefit from harmony because they have no skirmish cav, hope a DLC patches that gap. Sometimes Caravan Masters will gen with Longma! Jade Swordsmen/Halberds/Crossbows: Their building chain is very cheap and fast. They're good for all the reasons Peasant Longspears are good and Cathay infantry are good but better armored and better base stats. Having a line of Jade Halberds is really great if you need to deal with a priority anti-large faction like Ogres or Nurgle. Crossbows are significantly better than Peasant Archers and the shielded variant trade really well even with Tzeentch. It's also a good idea to have Jade Swordsmen for dealing with Tzeentch, 30% protection from flaming BS beats 0%. Iron Hail Gunners: A big risk/reward unit. Their short range is super annoying but they annihilate what they can safely attack. If you've ever used Warpfire Throwers or Irondrakes you get the idea. Micro intensive or you need a really sweet set-up and choke, or you can use them as regular ranged to focus down enemy large who'll be targeted because they're taller then your infantry, or if you're blessed and you get a hill map they can shoot at normal-sized units regularly too. They're not bad they just ask a lot. Artillery: All ground-based Cathay artillery is excellent and T3 isn't a bridge too far in early game. Sky junks are great too. Sky Lanterns are technically T3 and are.. OK. They're kinda fun to use especially in defense if you have tower defense brain but they don't justify their cost and upkeep much. They also can't defend themselves at all from enemy air so they can only supplement a ranged block, not replace it, as you'll need your own ranged to provide cover fire. Lords: I think the magistrate/shogunate pulls Empire Captain weight if you invest in him but it's so much easier to get faster and as good or better results from the dragon-blooded spell caster lords, both Yin and Yang schools being good and the free bound spells both having good option spreads. Both are squishy to start but spike dramatically with mounts(Warhorse on Magistrate, Longma on Caster) and they provide good offense even early, you just have to exercise standard squishy SEM rules(i.e. have them help turn a T1 vs T1/2 infantry fight on the line into a win.) Note that being good at using the Magistrate as a discount melee hero is useful because you have to use them in Caravan fights. Get them on a Horse ASAP for +30 armor and big speed, yellow line and items to get them out of D-tier stats. Heroes: The Astromancer is kind of dull but a caster is always better than no caster if you have a Magistrate Lord, and an occupied slot is better than an empty slot even if you put the freebie from starter quests in Meow's stack. Alchemists are very good if you want Lore of Metal and very good besides with their passive buffs, they'll get you +movespeed in that army. You can retire Astromancers to rift closing duty once you're more set-up on assigning exactly what you want. Doomykins fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Feb 25, 2022 |
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Feb 25, 2022 15:00
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:You have to own Erengrad, Praag, and the city of Kislev for 10 turns, then you get a popup about the quest.
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Feb 25, 2022 15:05
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I haven't conquered a major settlement that isn't a Kislev city yet (well, I did take Hellpit in a previous game but forgot) but can you get t5 recruitment buildings there? If not you're going to be hardcapped to 6 Frost Maidens, 1 base, 2 from research, and 1 each from the t5 ice guard recruitment building. That certainly makes Ice Witches more useful. Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 15:42 on Feb 25, 2022 |
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Feb 25, 2022 15:35
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Finishing a realm of chaos, either through getting a soul or getting kicked out, should reward you in some way based on how much you did towards the major objective for that realm. Khorne should give you a free unit of some sort based on how much you killed, slaanesh can give you straight cash or ancillaries, tzeentch gives magic items or gives your lord a free spell, nurgle gives traits that give +replenishment or reduce army upkeep or something. Just something so that its worth going into the non-slaanesh realms even if you know you can't get the soul.
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Feb 25, 2022 15:42
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Is there a reason people consistently misspell Miao as "Meow"? Is it just the standard racist "lol different name sound funy" thing?
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Feb 25, 2022 15:46
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Muscle Tracer posted:Is there a reason people consistently misspell Miao as "Meow"? Is it just the standard racist "lol different name sound funy" thing? :3
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Feb 25, 2022 15:47
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iron hail gunners are pretty nasty in settlement defense. set them up on a barricade perpendicular to an infantry unit and they will shred things
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Feb 25, 2022 15:48
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Muscle Tracer posted:Is there a reason people consistently misspell Miao as "Meow"? Is it just the standard racist "lol different name sound funy" thing? get out
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Feb 25, 2022 15:49
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i really wish the dang rats i allied with ever built the building for death globes rats cuz they'd probably just be drat near invincible on those platforms.
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Feb 25, 2022 15:50
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What's the logic about portal waves trigger? It's around turn 125 for my campaign and I'll should have 4th roar now. Looks like it will be at least one more until someone (probably me) gets the 4 souls. Are they fixed at specific turn numbers, or need some trigger for first/subsequent launches?
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Feb 25, 2022 15:50
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Muscle Tracer posted:Is there a reason people consistently misspell Miao as "Meow"? Is it just the standard racist "lol different name sound funy" thing? 
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Feb 25, 2022 15:53
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Why does everyone keep fatshaming the ogres, is it bigotry?
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Feb 25, 2022 15:55
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The ogres are incredibly problematic
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Feb 25, 2022 15:56
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I'll have you know that my faction of "gaz from down local" isn't fat. It's all muscle. Somewhere.
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Feb 25, 2022 15:57
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Broken Cog posted:Speaking of, how long does it take to get the Boris unlock quest? I didn't get it in the time I had to play so far. 10 turns after having all 3 cities. Which can be as early as you confederate the group that already likes you. you can attack them but well they like you and fighting Kislev makes you lose supporters
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Feb 25, 2022 16:00
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MEAT
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Feb 25, 2022 16:02
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Doomykins posted:Peasant Longspears: Maybe the best spear chaff in the game. When they hold their ground and fight in harmony they're going to hold like T3s. For the record this isn't so. They've a base MD 24 and leadership 55 and according to the unit browser Battle Harmony is +6 to MD and leadership with a max of +12 (via amplifiers). Ordinary unshielded T0 Empire Spears are MD34 and leadership 60 and the same unit size - and T1 shielded spears are MD42. And it's the same unit sizes. They're just your standard spear chaff and not that good at it. quote:Jade Swordsmen/Halberds/Crossbows: Their building chain is very cheap and fast. They're good for all the reasons Peasant Longspears are good and Cathay infantry are good but better armored and better base stats. Having a line of Jade Halberds is really great if you need to deal with a priority anti-large faction like Ogres or Nurgle. Crossbows are significantly better than Peasant Archers and the shielded variant trade really well even with Tzeentch. It's also a good idea to have Jade Swordsmen for dealing with Tzeentch, 30% protection from flaming BS beats 0%. The other place Jade Warriors are much better at surviving damage is that they are armour 80 while peasants are armour 15 - or (after some irritating math) jade warriors on average ignore 60% (between 40% and 80%) of non-AP damage while peasants ignore on average 11.25% of it. Blue Horrors are 13 base damage and 2 AP at range - which means that against peasant warriors the average shot does 13.5 damage while against unshielded jade warriors it does 7.2 damage and against shielded does 5.0 damage. (Peasant archers are 14 base damage and 1 AP at range). And blue horrors in melee have some of the worst AP for a melee unit in the game at 21 normal, 3 AP. And even Tzeentch Forsaken (monsters that they are) are 44 normal, 14 AP damage.
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Feb 25, 2022 16:18
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Jarvisi posted:How do you deal with the insane ai focus on you as demons of chaos? You start the game with Kislev being able to see you so there's no escape. Don’t go to Bay of Blades like the game wants you to. Get your capital then immediately march north and take Altar of Spawns. By NOT having any coastline you will avoid the AIs notice (mostly) while you secure the Helspire Mountains. Once you have the Helspire Mountains you go Bay of Blades and secure your starting province. Done right you have two full provinces by turn 18-20, you can now actually afford a passable home defense stack that can reinforce garrisons, and you’ll be positioned to do the first rift set no problem. I’ve beaten Daemon Prince on both Hard and Very Hard so far.
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Feb 25, 2022 16:21
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Man, northern provinces are like Eshin in the old Imrik campaign if you're playing as Kairos. While you're struggling to field 1.5 stack, they're running around with 4-5 full 20-stacks. Also, why can't I use teleport stance in my starting province? Is that explained anywhere?
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Feb 25, 2022 16:21
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Broken Cog posted:Cheers! Guess I'll aim for that next
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Feb 25, 2022 16:29
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Quest battle pro tip: never stay in your deployment zone and never do what the advisor says, because assholes will spawn behind you
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Feb 25, 2022 16:37
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neonchameleon posted:For the record this isn't so. They've a base MD 24 and leadership 55 and according to the unit browser Battle Harmony is +6 to MD and leadership with a max of +12 (via amplifiers). Ordinary unshielded T0 Empire Spears are MD34 and leadership 60 and the same unit size - and T1 shielded spears are MD42. And it's the same unit sizes. They're just your standard spear chaff and not that good at it. You are correct, the last time I hovered over the harmony icon it said +12 and I took that for granted as the default. Checked in-game and it's a flat +12 if a Dragon LL is nearby for the +100% bonus to harmony. And you're correct about comparing T1 vs T1 units, though I consider Peasant Longspears to be actual chaff units, i.e. T0. I use them the same way as I would Skavenslaves, Peasant Mob or Zombies and they recruit from base settlement buildings with Jade Warriors being T1 Barracks building. And for chaff they're great. The +6 free ranks or super cheap recruit cost buildings are themselves ultra cheap and fast to build as well and once you have enough settlements Peasants global recruit at regular cost and in 1 turn. Peasant Longspears may also pull a bit ahead as they have Expendable and Charge Defense Against All. Edgar Allen Ho posted:Quest battle pro tip: never stay in your deployment zone and never do what the advisor says, because assholes will spawn behind you Necrotic Missiles quest on Ku'gath is wild. Doomykins fucked around with this message at 16:42 on Feb 25, 2022 |
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Feb 25, 2022 16:39
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This game sure likes crashing. Quicksave often
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Feb 25, 2022 16:41
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I’ve never had the game crash.
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Feb 25, 2022 17:01
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Ethiser posted:I’ve never had the game crash.
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Feb 25, 2022 17:05
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Doomykins posted:
Does expendable actually do anything?
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Feb 25, 2022 17:07
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genericnick posted:Does expendable actually do anything? I thought expendable meant that when they broke they don’t affect your other units morale.
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Feb 25, 2022 17:10
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genericnick posted:Does expendable actually do anything?
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Feb 25, 2022 17:10
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Here are my official Collapsing Farts rankings. All of these armies are viable and it's not particularly hard to win the campaign with any of them, but there's a very noticable difference between them imo. Factions that are ridiculously good in campaign battles: Ogres, Kislev, Khorne These three factions, without any sort of cheesing or optimizing, will just dunk on loving everything Factions that are good but can be better: Tzeentch, Cathay Both of these factions are good, but Tzeentch needs a lil bit of optimizing to feel really good because of poo poo-tier replenishment and a weird frontline selection. Cathay is overall good but feels like it is carried a lot by the two legendary lords and adherence to the harmony mechanics. The rest of the roster is super solid but not spectacular. Factions that are mediocre: Nurgle Slow and dull, most fights consist of tarpitting the enemy while you try to heal stuff while you fart and puke on them. They rely on plagues to be fun imo, like If you use plagues a lot of things get easier (vanguard deployment, extra replenishment) but without plagues the army is mostly tedious, especially in settlement battles. And I'm super lazy so gently caress spamming everything with plagues every round Factions that are bad: Slaneesh A 100% melee army with no ranged options and no fliers except furies. They rely on speed and have no armor. Unfortunately you gotta flank everything to get equal value with them... and their marauder meatshield frontline troops aren't fast so they don't feel like they belong to the same doctrine (  ) and ALSO don't have armor so it's a really weird setup that doesn't gel with itself... so it's high effort gameplay for mediocre results. Some of the chariots seem to be bugged because they barely deal damage which upsets me because they look awesome
Collapsing Farts fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Feb 25, 2022 |
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Feb 25, 2022 17:11
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Ethiser posted:I’ve never had the game crash. I have it crash if i've had it open for a few hours. Performance degrades and then it just dies.
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Feb 25, 2022 17:12
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Plagues have big classical RTS macroing your bases energy. I haven't gone very far in a Nurgle campaign yet, but I enjoy it myself. I do think they need some DLC help on the battle map though.
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Feb 25, 2022 17:21
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What are people using for Cathay doomstacks? The top tier crossbows and some artillery/terracotas?
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Feb 25, 2022 17:30
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terrorist ambulance posted:What are people using for Cathay doomstacks? The top tier crossbows and some artillery/terracotas? My doomstack was Celestial Dragon Halberds, Celestial Dragon Crossbows, and three artillery. Terracottas are nice, but they block my arrows. Miao's faction and personal buffs to ranged units along with a 100% boosted harmony bonus meant that with 3 artillery and 7 archers very few enemies even reached my lines
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Feb 25, 2022 17:34
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Slaanesh seem really good to me just over costed. A daemonette costs nearly twice the upkeep of an ogre bull
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Feb 25, 2022 17:43
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Ravenfood posted:I haven't conquered a major settlement that isn't a Kislev city yet (well, I did take Hellpit in a previous game but forgot) but can you get t5 recruitment buildings there? If not you're going to be hardcapped to 6 Frost Maidens, 1 base, 2 from research, and 1 each from the t5 ice guard recruitment building. You can build all of the red and blue line buildings in major settlements besides the three cities. They use the same building tree as your minor towns, only they can obviously go up to tier 5. That includes Hellpit, though Occupied Hellpit has garbage building slots. Fun thing, the line for War Sleds and Little Grom increases all income from the specific settlement by 10%, which can be quite wortwhile both for the three cities and some other major settlements. (+10% to Drakenhof's gold mine, T3 farm+wood and T5 market? Ain't gonna say no to that!)
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Feb 25, 2022 17:55
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Magni posted:You can build all of the red and blue line buildings in major settlements besides the three cities. They use the same building tree as your minor towns, only they can obviously go up to tier 5. That includes Hellpit, though Occupied Hellpit has garbage building slots. Fun thing, the line for War Sleds and Little Grom increases all income from the specific settlement by 10%, which can be quite wortwhile both for the three cities and some other major settlements. (+10% to Drakenhof's gold mine, T3 farm+wood and T5 market? Ain't gonna say no to that!) Perfect, thanks. Kicking over Mannfred was my next plan anyway. +/- on giving everything but Drakenhof back to Ostermark in the hopes that they get big enough to become powerful military allies but I doubt it.
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Feb 25, 2022 18:06
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My end game Meow doomstack was 5 Celestial Spears, 4 Celestial Bows, 1 Skyjunk and 9 Terracotta. Being able to spam Earthblood on Terracottas makes them pretty efficient, you just need to have the death ball engage far ahead of your troops. With that said I yield. I've deleted my Nurgle campaign again before turn 50. What went wrong? Settlement Transferred. Fine, I'll try to game it by reloading. Settlement Transferred, and I need to win an 8 minute(triple speed sure but zzz) manual defense against a Khorne rift stack in my home town. I literally can't lose it but two load screens and a few minutes wait per try. Settlement Transferred. Fine. I'm a big boy, I will loving declare war on a new random faction, take my second defense nurgling spam + a few real units stack over, siege and plague and attrition it down and auto resolve that fucker right back into my grasp. I'm Nurgle, I'm ready for a nice slow campaign. 3 turns later: Settlement Transferred. Fine! I've got 10 turns of a busted Slaanesh super buff left, I get 100% replenishment everywhere at any time. Colonized ruins? We're ready. AR to 10% hp on everything? Surprise, idiot, I was horny in the past. I will not be stopped. I have super plagues. I can plague my army and have plaguebearer summons. I can plague my towns and have +150 growth for 10 turns cycling to one another and renewing those ten turns. I can plague my doomstack and give it another 20% physical DR because I needed to be even tankier. Settlement Transferred. 3 turns pass. Settlement Transferred. I am being targeted, on cooldown, by at least 2 Tzeentch factions for a Settlement Transfer. I haven't seen one of them since the game started. The other I've burned through down to 1 settlement that is under a death siege by Khorne stack. I thought if I powered through losing a T3 major settlement earlier and sieging it back and just saying OH WELL DIDN'T WANT 12K DARK FAVOR ANYWAY and start building it back up from T1 and I'm at war with an 8 settlement faction well, you know, it's gonna be a slow campaign!!!!!!!!!! But I'm being reasonable! Taking it on the chin! Settlement Transferred. My Slaanesh buff is about to run out. I can't doomstack AR my way through this poo poo faster than it comes with intentionally busted, super overpowered buffs. Maybe not literally unable to do so. Maybe if I toughed this out for 200+ turns I'd just about overcome it all, destroy every Tzeentch faction in the Chaos Wastes, look to my south and be bowled over by the Order factions I've never been above 10/90 yellow/red on strength rating against all game. Settlement Transferred. This is 4 of them within 20 turns. This is 4 of them between rift cycles. I can't actually build anything that isn't in my starting province past T3. OK CA, you win, Tzeentch sure is a cagey scheming fellow, I'm waiting for a patch or a mod. Or maybe there's a trick here, but a trick that isn't really loving stupid like "just be at war with your neighbors 100% of the time, all of them, lol." gently caress you. Doomykins fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Feb 25, 2022 |
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Feb 25, 2022 18:22
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Can someone give me an rundown on the Ogres? In particular I'm wondering where to plonk down my war camps
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Feb 25, 2022 18:26
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PerilPastry posted:Can someone give me an rundown on the Ogres? In particular I'm wondering where to plonk down my war camps First warcamp, somewhere safe. It is your recruitment building. Later warcamps, where ever you want. Delete them and move them as you need but you can get a lot.
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Feb 25, 2022 18:45
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Playing a game as Daemon Prince right now with that Slaanesh Paramour follower that buffs growth in your main provinces and reduces enemy public order by 50 in enemy territories is a blast even if I'm a soul behind in the Great Game. I'm honestly not sure I can win the soul race long term but being able to teleport to the leader's capital and start a chain of rebellions when the portals open does spice the game up. Is the game over if a faction makes it into the forge of souls before me though? Cathay currently has three souls, and I'm not exactly sure how intercepting then works since going into the Forge of Souls just puts you on a platform that you can't move from. I assume that if another faction makes it in before me with all four souls, I can't actually catch them.
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Feb 25, 2022 18:45
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