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Pablo Bluth posted:Must be going well enough that Zelenskyy can get out of whatever basement he's been working from. (Or fog of war old photos) old photos
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Feb 25, 2022 17:44
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ravenkult posted:Must have decorum in the war thread. 
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Feb 25, 2022 17:44
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drunkill posted:russians wanting to read western media use facebook, also putin wants to limit free speech at the moment In terms of organizing protests though.
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Feb 25, 2022 17:45
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canepazzo posted:That BMP was stopped and the occupant(s?) executed, if it makes you feel better. Let's not use sensationalist language frivolously. Execution is a fairly specific thing.
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Feb 25, 2022 17:45
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You guys cant argue in here, this is the war
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Feb 25, 2022 17:45
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Concerned Citizen posted:the terms are fairly mild. it creates a state totally unable to defend itself against russian aggression but is otherwise independent. that's pretty much cold war finland. i don't think ukraine really has much of a choice, it's that or extinction. I don't think it's reasonable to say that Cold War Finland couldn't defend itself. Yes, Cold War Finland could be successfully invaded by the USSR, but they would be able to extract a price on the invaders. That is very different from a state "totally unable to defend itself"
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Feb 25, 2022 17:45
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While Russia seems to be having trouble in other areas (the thread continues to say that resistance at Kharkiv has continued to stymie Russia), the southern front doesn't seem to be going well for Ukraine. https://twitter.com/NotWoofers/status/1497246539047047176
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Feb 25, 2022 17:45
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This is propaganda. Even Kadyrov's own troops know he's not seriously going to pay them bonuses...
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Feb 25, 2022 17:45
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where is the push to remove .ru from root DNS? seems like a good idea
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Feb 25, 2022 17:45
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Update from a student in the Carpathians: "I am really scaerd for my family, now there are many attacks on Ukraine, in my town everything is good." They've been offered help in France and Germany but if her dad stays to fight in the war she doesn't want to leave him. "I will not go without my grandfather, without my grandmother, and my dog." No updates from Chernihiv.
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Feb 25, 2022 17:45
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I do hope that paying bounties for destruction of BMPs and Soviet-type tanks backfires in the obviously hilarious way. e: Zelensky is a guy who deserves big statues of him when this is all over, hopefully in Kiev.
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Feb 25, 2022 17:46
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Dumb question, but is "Russian Oligarch" an actual government title or a catch all term for industry leaders in Russia who have a huge sway in politics?
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Feb 25, 2022 17:46
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ZombieLenin posted:The Hitler comparison is not irrelevant. Putin just two days ago gave a speech about "Greater Russia," called the Ukrainian nation-state a fiction, and very clearly was waxing longingly about re-establishing the Soviet "Empire." Yes, NATO countries are at risk, for a lot of reasons... while we have 'drawn a red line' with NATO territory, Putin is not exactly rational. It remains to be seen if he views his success at keeping NATO 'out' of his Ukrainian adventure as sign that, when it comes down to it, NATO will balk at actually using its military to defend NATO states and 'risk' the nuclear war he keeps threatening. So what are you proposing? That we roll the tanks in to Ukraine, send F22s and F35s to take over the skies? The thing people here don't get is that the free pass has already been given. I am talking about how Ukraine should proceed with trying to survive. All this appeasement is bad talk is just telling the Ukrainians to die and keep the Russians tied up so we don't have to worry about them being able to target someone else next. Which is a bananas proposition and why Zelensky is so bitter when he talks of the West. Sit down and talk because if you don't, you get nothing, nada, zilch. If the terms were basically bullshit and the tanks aren't stopping then you lose literally nothing. I am not talking about NATO or the West right now. We can't even get out sanctions in order. I am talking about the situation from Zelensky 's point of view.
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Feb 25, 2022 17:47
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MikeC posted:So what are you proposing? That we roll the tanks in to Ukraine, send F22s and F35s to take over the skies? The thing people here don't get is that the free pass has already been given. I am talking about how Ukraine should proceed with trying to survive. All this appeasement is bad talk is just telling the Ukrainians to die and keep the Russians tied up so we don't have to worry about them being able to target someone else next. Which is a bananas proposition and why Zelensky is so bitter when he talks of the West. Why do you keep pretending Putin wants to talk about ANYTHING? The demands are already set. Putin is not going to change them, he's winning.
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Feb 25, 2022 17:48
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MikeC posted:I am not talking about NATO or the West right now. We can't even get out sanctions in order. I am talking about the situation from Zelensky 's point of view. Zelensky and Ukrainians seem to have made their point of view pretty clear. They're going to fight the motherfuckers.
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Feb 25, 2022 17:48
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Hiro Protagonist posted:Dumb question, but is "Russian Oligarch" an actual government title or a catch all term for industry leaders in Russia who have a huge sway in politics? It's a catch-all term for billionaire (and upper end millionaire) entrepreneurs who participate in state politics, in Russian context. It's not an actual title, no.
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Feb 25, 2022 17:48
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ravenkult posted:Must have decorum in the war thread. You can't fight in here, etc. Feels like there's been relatively small progress by Russia today, got to say I'm impressed at Ukraine holding out as strongly as they have so far.
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Feb 25, 2022 17:48
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Captain Beans posted:Is it such a burn really? Sure Finland bloodied the USSRs nose but they eventually capitulated. It was more than a bloody nose, it's one of the better known modern Pyrrhic victories. More to the point - Finland maintained sovereignty (albeit after ceding territory). The most important point has already been made though - Putin warned Ukraine not to join NATO, then invaded even when they didn't. Finland now has nothing to lose by joining NATO and are in a position to do so rapidly, splitting Russia's attention. This was a massive unforced error on Putin's part.
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Feb 25, 2022 17:48
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Josef bugman posted:Also I don't think dropping AK-47's is a good idea. Not least because, well, arming people who have no experience of using firearms is likely to result in an awful lot of people either killing their families, each other, or forces on their own side that they are confused about.
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Feb 25, 2022 17:49
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Pablo Bluth posted:Must be going well enough that Zelenskyy can get out of whatever basement he's been working from. (Or fog of war old photos) FishBulbia posted:old photos from december https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukrainian-president-zelenskiy-holding-talks-with-biden-adviser-says-2021-12-09/
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Feb 25, 2022 17:50
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Hiro Protagonist posted:Dumb question, but is "Russian Oligarch" an actual government title or a catch all term for industry leaders in Russia who have a huge sway in politics? its an actual government title and SUMMONING THE OLIGARCHS is a constitutional ritual steeped in history and tradition dating back to Kyivan Rus'
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Feb 25, 2022 17:50
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Hiro Protagonist posted:Dumb question, but is "Russian Oligarch" an actual government title or a catch all term for industry leaders in Russia who have a huge sway in politics? It's not a specific title. Oligarch comes from the Greek form of governments outlined by I want to say Plato? Rule by the one is either Tyranny or Monarchy, rule by the few is Oligarchy or Aristocracy, rule by the many is Democracy. Usually Plato holds that Aristocracy is best.
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Feb 25, 2022 17:50
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Am I understanding correctly that the bulk of Russian forces are still engaged east of the Dnieper? Did they push across the Belarusian border as well?
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Feb 25, 2022 17:51
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Dwesa posted:Conscriptions in Ukraine ended in 2013, but there are probably many people that still remember how to use firearms Conscription restarted in 2014 after the start of the civil war.
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Feb 25, 2022 17:51
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Shooting Blanks posted:It was more than a bloody nose, it's one of the better known modern Pyrrhic victories. More to the point - Finland maintained sovereignty (albeit after ceding territory). Yeah if a glut of nations want to suddenly join NATO right now Putin's way too bogged down to do much about it. The veiled threat of the iron fist is gone: it's already elsewhere punching
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Feb 25, 2022 17:51
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punishedkissinger posted:Am I understanding correctly that the bulk of Russian forces are still engaged east of the Dnieper? Did they push across the Belarusian border as well? The bulk of the russian forces are not engaged. 2/3rds of the forces moved to the Ukranian border are still waiting to be deployed.
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Feb 25, 2022 17:52
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Dwesa posted:Conscriptions in Ukraine ended in 2013, but there are probably many people that still remember how to use firearms I still think arming people who are out of uniform seems, erm, worrying from a lot of different perspectives. I understand why its happening, but I am still not exactly sure it is going to end well.
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Feb 25, 2022 17:52
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MikeC posted:So what are you proposing? That we roll the tanks in to Ukraine, send F22s and F35s to take over the skies? The thing people here don't get is that the free pass has already been given. I am talking about how Ukraine should proceed with trying to survive. All this appeasement is bad talk is just telling the Ukrainians to die and keep the Russians tied up so we don't have to worry about them being able to target someone else next. Which is a bananas proposition and why Zelensky is so bitter when he talks of the West. Reason dictates that the guys who have invaded you in 2014, keep tearing up your agreements and invaded you two days ago will not bother respecting any agreement you make with them now. Any sort of agreement done now is essentially capitulation and total occupation by Russia, because this is essentially what Russia has been telling everybody as their objectives, loud and clear. The alternative is to keep fighting, make occupation as costly as possible, take away any veneer of justification for this war and hope Russian public support (or at least the Oligarchs' support) sufficiently tanks that they have to pull back. Obviously this takes a heavy toll on the Ukrainian population, but any agreement with Russia now means the end of Ukraine today, or a second war for freedom in 10 years.
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Feb 25, 2022 17:52
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punishedkissinger posted:Am I understanding correctly that the bulk of Russian forces are still engaged east of the Dnieper? Did they push across the Belarusian border as well? Yeah. 2 troop groups entered through Belarus, and 2 more are massing inside Belarus (towards Lviv, rather than Kyiv).
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Feb 25, 2022 17:52
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being a non-NATO member and gambling heavily on being merely sufficiently politically close to the US to fold into NATO in 90 minutes no longer seems a safe bet either Russia is demonstrating that it's insane and paranoid; the US is demonstrating that it does indeed intend to give being in an actual alliance of mutual defence or not being in that alliance some teeth given its newfound political weariness (and wariness) with boots on the ground. If anything, the post-Cold-War downsizing of militaries has increased this danger, since it makes a commitment to a limited but still overwhelming (for a small periphery country) strike plausible. plus, with the Baltics, Sweden and Finland no longer have a monopoly on being the only nominally independent front that can border the Soviet Union MikeC posted:... Which is a bananas proposition and why Zelensky is so bitter when he talks of the West. ... I mean, he does need to motivate his people to fight rather than hope for an intervention
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Feb 25, 2022 17:52
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This would absolutely be the perfect time for rapid membership for anyone else wanting to join NATO along with equally rapid deployment of defensive international troops.
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Feb 25, 2022 17:52
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TulliusCicero posted:Yeah if a glut of nations want to suddenly join NATO right now Putin's way too bogged down to do much about it. How veiled? After all that's happened I can only say I'm less convinced Putin wouldn't just throw his hands up and start lobbing nukes as a final 'gently caress You' to the world how dare you think you're going out above me!
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Feb 25, 2022 17:52
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Josef bugman posted:I still think arming people who are out of uniform seems, erm, worrying from a lot of different perspectives. I understand why its happening, but I am still not exactly sure it is going to end well. Yeah I really really hope it doesn't come to this, but 'all military aged men are part of the resistance now' definitely has troubling ramifications.
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Feb 25, 2022 17:53
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Josef bugman posted:I still think arming people who are out of uniform seems, erm, worrying from a lot of different perspectives. I understand why its happening, but I am still not exactly sure it is going to end well. I would agree, fwiw, I get why but I can't help but think it's just going to lead to a lot of dead people who might otherwise not be.
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Feb 25, 2022 17:53
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cinci zoo sniper posted:Yeah. 2 troop groups entered through Belarus, and 2 more are massing inside Belarus (towards Lviv, rather than Kyiv). this seems really tenuous strategically, for Ukraine
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Feb 25, 2022 17:53
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TulliusCicero posted:Yeah if a glut of nations want to suddenly join NATO right now Putin's way too bogged down to do much about it. i mean finland is speeding towards nato memembership now. https://twitter.com/ichbinilya/status/1497189863522652160 gently caress putin.
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Feb 25, 2022 17:53
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CommieGIR posted:Why do you keep pretending Putin wants to talk about ANYTHING? The demands are already set. Putin is not going to change them, he's winning. Because there is a better alternative for him than full time occupation?
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Feb 25, 2022 17:54
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Hiro Protagonist posted:Dumb question, but is "Russian Oligarch" an actual government title or a catch all term for industry leaders in Russia who have a huge sway in politics? Most of them were in positions of power/influence during the dissolution of the Soviet Union, and bought (sold themselves) state industries for a nickel.* * may be a gross oversimplification, at least for the current crop of oligarchs.
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Feb 25, 2022 17:54
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https://twitter.com/EJ_Burrows/status/1497252061678813187?s=20&t=zaDN7AZ6ymOyyiKgRV8j4Q We have suffered no casualties. Believe us.
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Feb 25, 2022 17:54
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I also must note that I'd rather we all didn't die in a nuclear war. So anything that'd prevent that would be great.
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Feb 25, 2022 17:54
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