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Yeah, Detective Burnnotice doesn't have the charm of Fantana, but seems to be coded as a rule bender and as raged as Stabler
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Feb 25, 2022 05:48
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Stabler at least seemed to do it out of a sense of outrage at the crimes Burnnotice seems to just get high on the authority.
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Feb 25, 2022 05:51
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muscles like this! posted:It really felt like they were trying to thread the needle with Det Burnnotice. He was conservative but they made sure to point out that he wasn't racist or a thin blue line chud. I felt like we were encouraged to take Cosgrove's statements about being not racist the same way that Bernard did, a kind of "suuuure you're not." I'm pretty sure Bernard also rolls his eyes at Dixon's complaint about politics. Also McCoy as an old decayed liberal fits with his arc through the Cutter years. Relatedly: just saw that next week's episode is titled "Free Speech" so hang. on. to. your. butts.
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Feb 25, 2022 05:55
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This didn't feel much like og L&O. A very dumbed down plot and generally badly acted in exaggerated ways. Style wise, there's way too much music, in almost every scene, and the camera work is far more frenetic and flourished than it used to be. L&O was a verite, sparse show with long single takes that felt the opposite of forced and flashy like everything else. Granted, I don't like any of the spin-offs because they largely abandoned that style for a more bluntly dramatic approach, and even the flagship show started drifting into this in the last few seasons. But this was a pretty poor episode by any standard.
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Feb 25, 2022 07:09
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I haven’t gotten to the part of vanilla with Bernard in it yet so it’s interesting hearing about how he used to be vs now, especially in contrast with Detective Burnnotice. I really liked Maroun and the Order side a lot, and am looking forward to seeing more of them. My partner was like “wow, they’re leaning really hard on this subject” and thought the dialogue was terrible 💀 OC is firmly in guilty pleasure territory for me now, it’s so loving ridiculous and I am here for it. The hacker group’s dorky loving flat caps and Wheatley looming over MClane all “I love the smell of fentanyl in the morning  ” just  Also I hate vanilla’s new theme tune too 
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Feb 25, 2022 07:28
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This was a pretty rough first episode and the new cast is weak. Agreed about the directing style being all over the place and not feeling like Law & Order. If someone had told me L&O had moved to CBS and was being run by the army of robot producers who do all their shows I would have believed it.
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Feb 25, 2022 07:38
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That was okay, I guess with so many new people to they didn't want to do big establishing introduction scenes for them all. Not near peak L&O but more like that show than anything else on TV since, hopefully it finds its feet soon.
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Feb 25, 2022 09:59
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I re-watched some older episodes a few weeks ago having not seen them for like 20 years, and I was struck by how just about every single word out of Lennie Briscoe's mouth was either sarcastic, cynical, or some kind of world-weary. Like, the opener is always gallows humour but the way he delivers all of his lines so matter-of-factly, it's a really understated performance and all the more effective for it. For me, he's the quintessential TV Cop.
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Feb 25, 2022 13:08
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I watched it this morning and thought it was okay. It wasn’t anything special, but it stuck to their old formula and did a decent job of a first introduction of the new characters and showing how Bernard is different from a decade ago. Kalko posted:I re-watched some older episodes a few weeks ago having not seen them for like 20 years, and I was struck by how just about every single word out of Lennie Briscoe's mouth was either sarcastic, cynical, or some kind of world-weary. Like, the opener is always gallows humour but the way he delivers all of his lines so matter-of-factly, it's a really understated performance and all the more effective for it. For me, he's the quintessential TV Cop. Briscoe is usually included in the discussion of greatest TV characters of all time for a reason. Particularly when looking at network shows and not more recent “prestige” stuff like Breaking Bad or pay cable stuff.
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Feb 25, 2022 15:26
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Idle thought: I don't know if Camryn Mannheim was told to show Dixon as always in motion or something because there were a few points where it felt like her arms were flapping about like she was conducting an orchestra.
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Feb 25, 2022 15:57
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Also hating the new theme, but weren't season 19 and 20 a similar (different) take on the original theme? Edit to say the best version is the early years where the intro took its time.
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Feb 25, 2022 18:33
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I dunno, I thought the S19/20 version was just a slightly (more) trimmed down of the original theme?
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Feb 26, 2022 00:48
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- Coming out of the gate with a Cosby episode was something. Dick Wolf, always swinging for the fences. - I liked Bernard quite a bit. He feels like a decade-older version of his character, I liked the aura around him of "man when did I turn into Lupo?" - Detective Burn Notice suuuuuuuucked. All the bad qualities of a Stabler with none of the charisma. The Judge just being like "well, I'll just give a jury instruction, it's fine." was kinda wack. - I liked Price a lot too. Him asking for low bail and then deciding to toss out the bogus confession was a good establishing moment for him. - Jack looked so old. I kinda didn't like seeing him so wheezy and tired. Also, his line about Defund the Police stunk. This may turn into a leave the memories alone thing. - I appreciated that they stuck in the line about requesting a short sentence at the end, but was it weird to anybody else that nobody ever even brought up the idea of a plea?
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Feb 26, 2022 06:16
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MJeff posted:- Jack looked so old. Sam Waterston is now three years older than Steven Hill was when he left the show following season 10.
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Feb 26, 2022 08:01
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Timby posted:Sam Waterston is now three years older than Steven Hill was when he left the show following season 10. Yeah. I get how you have to have Jack for this (I even said in the OP, they had to do this before Waterston retired for good) but man, I dunno. I wish they'd just done this revival like five years ago.
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Feb 26, 2022 18:11
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I missed the first half, Jeffrey Donovan's character is a bit hamfisted introduction but I am ok with him. It's like how they introduced Curtis as a hot headed conservative too. I hope they wait for a few episodes to do the cop prosecution episode to give Donovan a chance to find his character a bit.
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Feb 26, 2022 19:07
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If Jack McCoy dies off mid-season they can always bring back Ben Stone! Michael Moriarty is only 80.
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Feb 27, 2022 02:44
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Former Human posted:If Jack McCoy dies off mid-season they can always bring back Ben Stone! Michael Moriarty is only 80. Given that SVU had his funeral like 4 years ago, that’d be tricky.
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Feb 27, 2022 02:50
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Former Human posted:If Jack McCoy dies off mid-season they can always bring back Ben Stone! Michael Moriarty is only 80. Waterston only signed for a year (as did Anderson; everyone else in the main cast signed deals with options for more seasons), a "McCoy dies" storyline isn't out of the question.
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Feb 27, 2022 02:52
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Former Human posted:If Jack McCoy dies off mid-season they can always bring back Ben Stone! Michael Moriarty is only 80. Did you watch Game of Thrones, Michael? We really don't have anything to worry about any more.
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Feb 27, 2022 02:54
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Timby posted:Waterston only signed for a year (as did Anderson; everyone else in the main cast signed deals with options for more seasons), a "McCoy dies" storyline isn't out of the question. McCoy retires, leading to new DA Michael Cutter 
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Feb 27, 2022 02:56
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fartknocker posted:Given that SVU had his funeral like 4 years ago, that’d be tricky. That was his evil twin!
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Feb 27, 2022 02:59
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fartknocker posted:Given that SVU had his funeral like 4 years ago, that’d be tricky. Jamie Ross was a judge. They don't seem to care that much for continuity.
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Feb 27, 2022 03:09
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muscles like this! posted:Jamie Ross was a judge. They don't seem to care that much for continuity. Look, if they’re gonna bring anyone back from the dead, make it hologram Lennie Briscoe. Twist is the hologram is based on this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6F29JppmaaQ
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Feb 27, 2022 04:25
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I have no relation to the main Law and Order show, I don’t even remember anything about it other than the title theme, but the first episode felt like such a cliche that it was almost a parody, and I only made it 20 minutes into the first episode.
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Feb 27, 2022 16:52
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Oasx posted:I have no relation to the main Law and Order show, I don’t even remember anything about it other than the title theme, but the first episode felt like such a cliche that it was almost a parody, and I only made it 20 minutes into the first episode. I'll preface this by saying this was definitely not a great episode by Law and Order standards. That said, L&O basically invented the modern procedural TV show including the cliches so it comes with the territory. Also, you only watched the cop half of the show, which was definitely the weakest. The court poo poo was much better.
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Feb 27, 2022 17:33
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Jose Oquendo posted:I'll preface this by saying this was definitely not a great episode by Law and Order standards. It honestly felt like a pilot episode of Law and Order but if it premiered in 2022 if that makes any sense.
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Feb 27, 2022 17:53
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muscles like this! posted:Jamie Ross was a judge. They don't seem to care that much for continuity. A friend reminded me of this: New York has popular elections of judges, they aren't appointed. It's entirely possible that Ross lost her bid for re-election. (Look up how long ago Trial by Jury ended if you want to feel old.) What still bugs me is that she went back to being an ADA, when everything we know about the character says she would have gone back to private practice. And nothing about the story required, nor was it improved by, her being a prosecutor again.
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Feb 27, 2022 18:22
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Timby posted:What still bugs me is that she went back to being an ADA, when everything we know about the character says she would have gone back to private practice. And nothing about the story required, nor was it improved by, her being a prosecutor again. I dunno, I think we can make it fit. The story of the episode is about evincing a deep faith in procedural justice. The case is about a woman taking 'justice' into her own hands, the threat to the case is Cosgrove twisting things to 'get the bad guy', it ends with Price looking up at the statement of justice inscribed on the courthouse. You can even fit McCoy's complaint about 'defund the police' and Dixon's complaint about politics in there: justice is about letting the institutions work. Within this, Ross being ADA makes sense two ways. The first is that it makes sense to have an ADA who has lost faith in the system as a secondary antagonist (and I wonder if we see her as a recurring secondary antagonist). The second is that her character makes an interesting complement/counterpart to Cosgrove. A complement because she represents Cosgrove's attitude fully integrated into the 'order' side of the show. A counterpart because she represents Cosgrove's same 'get the bad guy' attitude but from a (by the show's standards) liberal feminist perspective. So I think Ross being ADA is at least being used by the show. I'll stop short of saying it's good (though I think I might've convinced myself), but it's doing something.
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Feb 27, 2022 18:32
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Oasx posted:I have no relation to the main Law and Order show, I don’t even remember anything about it other than the title theme, but the first episode felt like such a cliche that it was almost a parody, and I only made it 20 minutes into the first episode. I haven’t watched the new episode yet so I can’t say if this applies but one thing that often throws people off who don’t know the show are the literal political/issue discussion between characters. If one of the things that turned you off was the two detectives discussing #MeToo or whatever, that’s classic L&O.
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Feb 27, 2022 18:38
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fartknocker posted:McCoy retires, leading to new DA Michael Cutter Cutter being his same crazy self and Price having to try and be the cooler head to him would be a delightful inversion of the usual DA-EADA dynamic. Timby posted:Waterston only signed for a year (as did Anderson; everyone else in the main cast signed deals with options for more seasons), a "McCoy dies" storyline isn't out of the question. One episode in, I kinda hope they manage to keep Anderson long term, he was like the only part of the Law side of the show I actually liked. 
MJeff fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Feb 27, 2022 |
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Feb 27, 2022 19:47
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Ilene Chaiken has stepped down as the showrunner of Organized Crime. Barry O'Brien, who has previously produced such luminous shows as Lincoln Rhyme: Hunt for the Bone Collector, CSI: Miami, Castle and The Following, replaces her effective immediately. Organized Crime has five episodes left to shoot. Also, can we please get a better thread title? If it isn't a Lennie quote, go with an all-timer from Jack. Law & Order: "Never get Freudian on a man holding a pickle."
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Feb 27, 2022 19:56
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If there's a way for the OP to change the thread title, I will, but the last time I tried I couldn't find any way to.
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Feb 27, 2022 22:04
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The thing about Detective Burnnotice is he spends the first half of his screen time being like "I can't hold my tounge and have to speak my mind always" even when it pisses off people he needs to help make his case. And then as soon as they think it's her he just lies to her to get her to confess. If he's smart enough to know lying to her and being kind will get her to confess then he should also know to do that for other people while he's investigating.
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Feb 27, 2022 22:20
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HootTheOwl posted:The thing about Detective Burnnotice is he spends the first half of his screen time being like "I can't hold my tounge and have to speak my mind always" even when it pisses off people he needs to help make his case. Yeah, his character isn't a principled jackass like a Stabler or an unscrupulous douchebag that is at least internally consistent like a Fontana, it's just "do whatever will annoy the audience the most at any given time without actually suffering any consequences for it".
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Feb 27, 2022 22:30
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This first episode felt like it was trying really hard to hit some hallmarks of L&O and stuck hard to the format (thank goodness), but it also seemed like it was written to capture as many buzz words as they could fit into it for social edge. Which I'm not sure it needed or that that piece added much to it. Great to see it going again, but it was only okay as far as L&O episodes go. I think they can do a better job with defining roles for the team as they go on, so much of this first episode felt like it was rushing to inform us who the core cast are, but most of the time the old show just let that come through naturally instead of propped up moments every other scene for them to tell us about it. It seemed a bit rushed with the character work I guess.
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Feb 28, 2022 19:07
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I watched the new episode of L&O on Friday and...I did not really care for it. The writing is, I don't know, too simplistic? Detective Burn Notice was kind of lame, but I don't know if that's more a fault of how the character is written, or if Jeffrey Donovan just isn't a great actor (I haven't seen him in anything else). Something that irked me all through out that even though they were using the same sets (or what looked to be the same sets for the precinct) as before it went off the air, everything looked very sterile. A couple of months ago, I was watching clips of L&O on the official YouTube channel, and something that was pointed out in the comments (I think maybe in regard to SVU) is that when the show was still in 4:3, they would try to fit everything they could into one shot, which did a good job of making the room seem cramped and crowded. Now the squad room looks empty. The lighting also seems too bright, and everything seems too clean. I just can't tell if it's a drop-off in the quality of scene blocking, or if it's just a result of the show now being broadcast in 16:9 and 4K. I guess that was sort of my fear going in; it's been 12 years since the show's been on the air, and when you look at something like SVU, it's sort of degraded in recent year, going from being a police procedural to seeming more akin to a soap opera. It just sort of feels like it designed to be in line with other NBC dramas. I didn't make it through the premiere of Organized Crime, but it just didn't feel like a L&O show. I dunno, though. Maybe I'm off-point with that assessment.
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Feb 28, 2022 23:08
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Max Wilco posted:I guess that was sort of my fear going in; it's been 12 years since the show's been on the air, and when you look at something like SVU, it's sort of degraded in recent year, going from being a police procedural to seeming more akin to a soap opera. It just sort of feels like it designed to be in line with other NBC dramas. I didn't make it through the premiere of Organized Crime, but it just didn't feel like a L&O show. I dunno, though. Maybe I'm off-point with that assessment. I think it absolutely has a different production feel, and yeah SVU/OC no longer feel like L&O to me, which is why i was encouraged by them sticking to the format which I think is huge to the show getting the right feel. First episode was kinda off with the characters/writing, hopefully they find a good zone.
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Feb 28, 2022 23:24
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Max Wilco posted:I guess that was sort of my fear going in; it's been 12 years since the show's been on the air, and when you look at something like SVU, it's sort of degraded in recent year, going from being a police procedural to seeming more akin to a soap opera. It just sort of feels like it designed to be in line with other NBC dramas. I didn't make it through the premiere of Organized Crime, but it just didn't feel like a L&O show. I dunno, though. Maybe I'm off-point with that assessment. Organized Crime breaks the L&O mould, so to speak, by having a continuous plot across episodes and seasons, there's a recurring antagonist who's been in what, every episode?, and there's a (half-assed) focus on Stabler's mental state, for lack of a better word, where these elements are largely absent in SVU for instance. SVU did have some recurring villains, but they tended to get shot after a few episodes. And I guess Olivia went to therapy for a bit. But things like Rawlins's gambling problem etc. were "resolved" fairly rapidly and are sort of throw-away things. OC wants to be a very different kind of cop show, and the result is a bit lackluster. I've kept up with it and I don't think it's bad teevee, but it's definitely flawed.
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Feb 28, 2022 23:24
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The Notorious ZSB posted:I think it absolutely has a different production feel, and yeah SVU/OC no longer feel like L&O to me, which is why i was encouraged by them sticking to the format which I think is huge to the show getting the right feel. First episode was kinda off with the characters/writing, hopefully they find a good zone. I'm guess there's also a whole new team working on the production, which is probably why it feels different. I started watching through the whole run of Criminal Intent back in 2020 when COVID was in full swing, and starting with Season 6, the production changed hands (Rene Balcer left, and Warren Leight took over), and you can tell there's a very notable change in style. Rappaport posted:Organized Crime breaks the L&O mould, so to speak, by having a continuous plot across episodes and seasons, there's a recurring antagonist who's been in what, every episode?, and there's a (half-assed) focus on Stabler's mental state, for lack of a better word, where these elements are largely absent in SVU for instance. SVU did have some recurring villains, but they tended to get shot after a few episodes. And I guess Olivia went to therapy for a bit. But things like Rawlins's gambling problem etc. were "resolved" fairly rapidly and are sort of throw-away things. OC wants to be a very different kind of cop show, and the result is a bit lackluster. I've kept up with it and I don't think it's bad teevee, but it's definitely flawed. I guess it's just a pet peeve of mine when there's things like recurring villains, or when a character's personal drama becomes a major aspect of the episode. For a show/franchise that's largely grounded in reality, those kind of things push into a more unrealistic zone, which I think clashes horribly. Max Wilco fucked around with this message at 23:52 on Feb 28, 2022 |
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Feb 28, 2022 23:50
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