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Warad posted:It is happening a bit sudden, it's only been a few hours in between the announcement they were getting them and the announcement that they're already on the way. (which happened right I was in the middle of my last post too!) Realistically it probably already happened and the news was delayed. Giving a very specific time frame on a transfer like that would be pretty bad.
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Feb 28, 2022 00:37
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Cicero posted:People can organize poo poo like this behind the scenes before they announce it to the world y’know Ya this was probably in the works since Thursday.
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Feb 28, 2022 00:37
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steinrokkan posted:That tweet sounds like nonsense. No way would they fly these planes over the border to begin with. And there wasn't even enough time to repaint the livery, for crying out loud planes are so freshly from poland that the glove compartments are still crammed full of kabanos
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Feb 28, 2022 00:37
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Vietnom nom nom posted:Matthew Perry got Ukraine invaded! that mother fucker
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Feb 28, 2022 00:38
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There was at least one Ukrainian Su-27 that landed in Romania on the first day of the conflict, so that's at least one plane and pilot they can give to Ukraine relatively quickly.
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Feb 28, 2022 00:38
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TheRat posted:Will they provide trained pilots too? There's enough junk planes in Eastern Europe that the Ucrainian pilots can pilot for another 3 wars
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Feb 28, 2022 00:39
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I can totally imagine Ukranian pilots taking delivery of these planes and joking amongst themselves about the various idiosyncrasies of the Romanian, Polish and East German pilots that had them before them.
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Feb 28, 2022 00:39
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Herstory Begins Now posted:planes are so freshly from poland that the glove compartments are still crammed full of kabanos Inoperable due to rosaries stuck in the throttle quadrant and rudder pedals
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Feb 28, 2022 00:40
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Fill Baptismal posted:A short of shooting war escalation that I could see happening would be western countries using the Ukraine "international battalions" they announced as a way of laundering paramilitaries or special forces into the country. My gut tells me that’s exactly what’s happening. The folks who you really, really don’t want to come across in a battlefield.
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Feb 28, 2022 00:40
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Kraftwerk posted:I can totally imagine Ukranian pilots taking delivery of these planes and joking amongst themselves about the various idiosyncrasies of the Romanian, Polish and East German pilots that had them before them. They’re probably hard at work taking off the translation labels Or turning them upside down like will smith
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Feb 28, 2022 00:40
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OctaMurk posted:do you think they made a snap decision right at the time of the tweet, and there was literally no preparation done for this beforehand? Frankly I don't even believe the donor countries even had any significant number of these planes un-mothballed and in full working order, just ready to go. I'll believe it when I see those planes in Ukraine.
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Feb 28, 2022 00:41
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Telsa Cola posted:Realistically it probably already happened and the news was delayed. Giving a very specific time frame on a transfer like that would be pretty bad. True enough.
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Feb 28, 2022 00:41
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biglads posted:Inoperable due to rosaries stuck in the throttle quadrant and rudder pedals Converted to run on molten Prince Polo
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Feb 28, 2022 00:41
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Lead out in cuffs posted:Yeah it's exactly this. Especially weapons like javelins and manpads that can be easily hidden by partisans and used in ambushes. or the russians run out of money. wars aren't free.
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Feb 28, 2022 00:42
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Vietnom nom nom posted:The problem is you're drawing arbitrary lines in the sand of history. I mean I could just as easily point to the scarring effects of 20+ million people dying in World War 2 for the USSR, or the deep apathy and resignation to having autocratic corrupt leaders due to never having anything but that. No, assurances were given. "Not a single inch eastward," said the US. Certainly it wasn't in what we might call a "treaty". But verbal assurances do mean something. And Gorby was ignored when he floated a Russian NATO relationship. Not that I'm stanning. But there were indeed missed opportunities. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 28, 2022 00:43
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steinrokkan posted:Frankly I don't even believe the donor countries even had any significant number of these planes un-mothballed and in full working order, just ready to go. I'll believe it when I see those planes in Ukraine. They were in front line service for Ukraine, why would you be surprised that other ex-Warsaw countries would be using them?
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Feb 28, 2022 00:43
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I'd not guess this would happen so fast. Even if Poland and other countries are sending older jets, they've got some of the US F16s stationed just in case any escalations. By the looks of it, those jets will be way more useful in Ukraine than where they currently are.
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Feb 28, 2022 00:43
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LionArcher posted:My gut tells me that’s exactly what’s happening. The folks who you really, really don’t want to come across in a battlefield. To be clear, I doubt any significant amount of killing and fighting is going to be done by those people. This isn't a a video game where some sufficiently badass special forces can save the day. But I could see former military from NATO countries who, wouldn't you know, happen to have the exact specific technical expertise and training needed to train the Ukrainians for the weapons that they just got who felt compelled to get answer the call.
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Feb 28, 2022 00:44
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Blitz of 404 Error posted:How is this not uh, like an alliance? Don't take it personally. It's just business.
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Feb 28, 2022 00:44
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steinrokkan posted:Frankly I don't even believe the donor countries even had any significant number of these planes un-mothballed and in full working order, just ready to go. I'll believe it when I see those planes in Ukraine. The Poles, Slovaks, and Bulgarians all have a non-zero number of MiG-29s ready to roll. I wonder if AUSA still has a couple.
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Feb 28, 2022 00:44
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Russian NATO membership is absurd for reasons I think should be obvious and have been discussed ad nauseam already. It's not a social club.
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Feb 28, 2022 00:44
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The population of Ukraine might have more anti tank/ anti air weapon systems dispersed among them then any other country in the world right now Have fun trying to "occupy" that
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Feb 28, 2022 00:44
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Vietnom nom nom posted:
Why didn't Joey stop him?
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Feb 28, 2022 00:45
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steinrokkan posted:Frankly I don't even believe the donor countries even had any significant number of these planes un-mothballed and in full working order, just ready to go. I'll believe it when I see those planes in Ukraine. They do. It's anecdotal and I'm a random stranger from the Internet, but my home town is within 50km from one of the bases in Poland. Even in times of peace you could see both F16s and rarely other jets in the air. The chatter I heard from people I trust mentioned that the frequency of those flights was slowly increasing even before the invasion.
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Feb 28, 2022 00:46
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Mustard Iceman posted:They were in front line service for Ukraine, why would you be surprised that other ex-Warsaw countries would be using them? Because judging from my country and what I've seen of other Eastern European militaries, they are all extremely cheap and most of their inventory doesn't work without extensive maintenance because of it, especially the old stuff. Maybe Poland is an exception to some extent, but I'm very skeptical about this.
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Feb 28, 2022 00:47
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:The Poles, Slovaks, and Bulgarians all have a non-zero number of MiG-29s ready to roll. Sadly all scrap or Museum pieces by now I think. Now those Su-27s they were thought to have as well the "extras" still sitting in Groom Lake though...
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Feb 28, 2022 00:48
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Lead out in cuffs posted:Yeah it's exactly this. Especially weapons like javelins and manpads that can be easily hidden by partisans and used in ambushes. The Iraqi insurgency was carried out by people from all different walks of life. It was not just religious extremism
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Feb 28, 2022 00:48
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I'm guessing that the Polish Fulcrums have had Ukrainian decals on for at least a few days now in readiness. Poland gets to support the Ukranians without risking Polish pilots, give the Russians a bloody nose and presumably get sent some shiny new F 16s to replace their aging Migs. I wouldnt be surprised if there are some keen polish pilots too. The Poles do have a proud track record of contributions in the air.... Polish pilot contributions in WWII
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Feb 28, 2022 00:48
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kaaj posted:They do. It's anecdotal and I'm a random stranger from the Internet, but my home town is within 50km from one of the bases in Poland. Even in times of peace you could see both F16s and rarely other jets in the air. The chatter I heard from people I trust mentioned that the frequency of those flights was slowly increasing even before the invasion. Yes, F16s are the current equipment, not the mostly deprecated stuff that is being given to Ukraine.
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Feb 28, 2022 00:48
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Vietnom nom nom posted:The problem is you're drawing arbitrary lines in the sand of history. I mean I could just as easily point to the scarring effects of 20+ million people dying in World War 2 for the USSR, or the deep apathy and resignation to having autocratic corrupt leaders due to never having anything but that. like all things in the last 400 years of world history, this is of course ultimately the result of england kicking its tenant farmers off their land for conversion to sheep pastures.
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Feb 28, 2022 00:49
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What's Putin's saving grace or plan at this point? Hope that Belarus attacks and that once his troops are organized they'll attack Kiev in hope they get Zelinsky or he'll surrender?
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Feb 28, 2022 00:49
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kaaj posted:I'd not guess this would happen so fast. Even if Poland and other countries are sending older jets, they've got some of the US F16s stationed just in case any escalations. By the looks of it, those jets will be way more useful in Ukraine than where they currently are. And there's 4 danish F-16s under the Baltic Policing umbrella. And since Denmark has been cutting down on their fighters in preparation for the massive new fleet of 27 F-35s, I'd imagine we have a handful mothballed in a hangar they can have.
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Feb 28, 2022 00:49
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:What's Putin's saving grace or plan at this point? Hope that Belarus attacks and that once his troops are organized they'll attack Kiev in hope they get Zelinsky or he'll surrender? Belarus troops are already helping Russia so I am not sure they have anything else to send, maybe another Russia puppet?
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Feb 28, 2022 00:50
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:What's Putin's saving grace or plan at this point? Hope that Belarus attacks and that once his troops are organized they'll attack Kiev in hope they get Zelinsky or he'll surrender? Win the war (which Russia is still likely to), then wait for the West to get bored and cancel sanctions.
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Feb 28, 2022 00:51
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https://twitter.com/phildstewart/status/1498081949675663362 So efficient at counting votes!
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Feb 28, 2022 00:52
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Lots of people questioning where pilots would be found. This may be a dumb question, but is it strange to expect an air force to have more pilots than planes? It feels like they'd maybe train some extra guys?
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Feb 28, 2022 00:52
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TulliusCicero posted:The population of Ukraine might have more anti tank/ anti air weapon systems dispersed among them then any other country in the world right now
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Feb 28, 2022 00:52
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:What's Putin's saving grace or plan at this point? Hope that Belarus attacks and that once his troops are organized they'll attack Kiev in hope they get Zelinsky or he'll surrender? Given that Belarus has erupted into protests, I don't think Belarus, much like Kazakhstan, can afford to use their troops to pacify Ukraine.
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Feb 28, 2022 00:53
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kaaj posted:https://twitter.com/phildstewart/status/1498081949675663362
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Feb 28, 2022 00:53
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after napoleon and hitler it was only fair for russia to be on the other end of doomed overambitious campaigns
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Feb 28, 2022 00:54
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