Ukraine: The Aristoblyats

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Internet VFW > Ukraine: The Aristoblyats

A Festivus Miracle: Dec 19, 2012; I have come to discourse on the profound inequities of the American political system.

El Mero Mero: That line of logic is the same one used by Vidkun Quisling.

Go tongue a cops boot if you love pacifism so much. Some things are worth dying for.

# ? Mar 2, 2022 02:12

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Jun 1, 2024 04:32

Comrade Blyatlov: Aug 4, 2007; should have picked four fingers

I mean, the excuse of reuniting ethnic language speakers as a justification for a land war in Europe was last used by Adolf loving Hitler, and this is literally the only time when I don't think the Godwin's Law applies because again - land war in Europe.

# ? Mar 2, 2022 02:14

Crab Dad: Dec 28, 2002; behold i have tempered and refined thee, but not as silver; as CRAB

It�s lions nature for them to eat others. The slave already let himself become a slave so it�s his role to feed the lion.

gently caress Russia.

# ? Mar 2, 2022 02:15

BIG HEADLINE: Jun 13, 2006; "Stand back, Ottawan ruffian, or face my lumens!"

Radical 90s Wizard posted:

The slave should just give up and avoid further bloodshed

Sovereignty is *such* a burden. They're really better off being vassals.

:jerkbag:

# ? Mar 2, 2022 02:16

Handsome Ralph: Sep 3, 2004; Oh boy, posting!
That's where I'm a Viking!

El Mero Mero posted:

Yelling at people because they aren't supporting the slave in the lion vs slave gladiator competition kinda misses the point of the criticism.

quote:

I live in a small town in Montana and my extremely lib neighbor has a Ukrainian flag in his window. I'm going to throw a rock thru it

Nah seriously, gently caress these people.

# ? Mar 2, 2022 02:17

Marshal Prolapse: Jun 23, 2012; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Comrade Blyatlov posted:

I mean, the excuse of reuniting ethnic language speakers as a justification for a land war in Europe was last used by Adolf loving Hitler, and this is literally the only time when I don't think the Godwin's Law applies because again - land war in Europe.

Also claiming people and countries never really existed is also the domain of the Nazis.

# ? Mar 2, 2022 02:18

lightpole: Jun 4, 2004; I think that MBAs are useful, in case you are looking for an answer to the question of "Is lightpole a total fucking idiot".

El Mero Mero posted:

It's not rooting, it's a mix of doomposting, pointing out that there's a massive power asymmetry, regardless of how well things look right now, and criticism of participating in war rhetoric.

The fall of kiev or even the complete levelling of it remains a likely/very highly possible tragic outcome and "rah-rah you can beat them" rhetoric is sick in that context.

Yelling at people because they aren't supporting the slave in the lion vs slave gladiator competition kinda misses the point of the criticism.

1) the lion is there willingly, having manufactured this scenario. The slave is not.

2) the slave gets eaten either way, laying down won't mitigate the suffering.

3) the slave can inflict enough damage that the lion won't survive or won't be able to digest its meal.

4) if you aren't supporting the slave and looking to thwart the lion because esoteric argument, you should spend some time in quiet self reflection while you pull your head out of your rear end

# ? Mar 2, 2022 02:18

El Mero Mero: Oct 13, 2001

um. so to clarify, since it clearly needs to be said? Putin can go gently caress himself and the Ukrainians are clearly correct and right to be defending themselves in a war of aggression that's being released on them and they shouldn't surrender and allow themselves to be conquered. They are also very brave and doing better than anyone expected in defending themselves, which is A Good Thing.

I never said they should surrender. I said that a negotiated outcome should be what people are screaming for, rather than blood.

# ? Mar 2, 2022 02:22

Grip it and rip it: Apr 28, 2020

El Mero Mero posted:

I've played the russians in enough video games now to know that seemingly unreasonable lopsided losses of disposable troops and tanks are a core character feature. They're basically the zerglings in every single game ever.

Not sure why this well known fact isn't showing up more frequently in sober checkmark twitter analyst discussions.

lol just joking about conscripts being murdered by their incompetent government. Another victim of CSPAM brain.

Edit: lol get the gently caress out of here with that faux concern for human lives nonsense. You can't tell people that they're cheering for the wrong outcome while comparing actual deaths to your favorite RTS you clown

# ? Mar 2, 2022 02:23

El Mero Mero: Oct 13, 2001

Grip it and rip it posted:

lol just joking about conscripts being murdered by their incompetent government. Another victim of CSPAM brain.

sounds like you love russians

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ? Mar 2, 2022 02:25

Hekk: Oct 12, 2012; 'smeper fi

El Mero Mero posted:

It's not rooting, it's a mix of doomposting, pointing out that there's a massive power asymmetry, regardless of how well things look right now, and criticism of participating in war rhetoric.

The fall of kiev or even the complete levelling of it remains a likely/very highly possible tragic outcome and "rah-rah you can beat them" rhetoric is sick in that context.

Yelling at people because they aren't supporting the slave in the lion vs slave gladiator competition kinda misses the point of the criticism.

Kindly shut the hell up with whatever loving idiocracy you are leaking into this thread.

Edit - To be clear, I didn't dish out a 6er for your dumb take (although it's pretty stupid). I gave you a 6er for doubling down and shitposting when you were rightly called out.

Hekk fucked around with this message at 02:37 on Mar 2, 2022

# ? Mar 2, 2022 02:25

Comrade Blyatlov: Aug 4, 2007; should have picked four fingers

Hekk posted:

Kindly shut the hell up with whatever loving idiocracy you are leaking into this thread.

Ily hekk <3

# ? Mar 2, 2022 02:26

NJersey: Dec 1, 2008

"Negotiate this Javelin up your loving rear end Putin"
- Ukraine

# ? Mar 2, 2022 02:31

Arsenic Lupin: Apr 12, 2012; This particularly rapid💨 unintelligible 😖patter💁 isn't generally heard🧏‍♂️, and if it is🤔, it doesn't matter💁.

I have no military knowledge. How ridiculous is the Russian loss of equipment up to this point? I don't have anything to compare it to, so I have no sense of the order of magnitude.

# ? Mar 2, 2022 02:33

Comrade Blyatlov: Aug 4, 2007; should have picked four fingers

Arsenic Lupin posted:

I have no military knowledge. How ridiculous is the Russian loss of equipment up to this point? I don't have anything to compare it to, so I have no sense of the order of magnitude.

Ridiculous.

# ? Mar 2, 2022 02:34

Zamujasa: Oct 27, 2010; Bread Liar

haste makes waste, and they're russian, so

:dadjoke:

# ? Mar 2, 2022 02:36

FrozenVent: May 1, 2009; The Boeing 737-200QC is the undisputed workhorse of the skies.

Negotiated settlement:

Russia goes back to its 2014 borders, and in exchange�

Nah I really don�t see how there�s a negotiated settlement possible here.

# ? Mar 2, 2022 02:36

orange juche: Mar 14, 2012

Arsenic Lupin posted:

I have no military knowledge. How ridiculous is the Russian loss of equipment up to this point? I don't have anything to compare it to, so I have no sense of the order of magnitude.

It's wild, and even if the casualty figures are 50% overinflated, it's already running a close second place to the 20 years long count of the US during Iraq/Afghanistan. If the casualty figures are anywhere close to accurate, then it's already outstripped GWOT.

E: actually, no I was wrong. If you count all US troop KIA/MIA in Iraq and Afghanistan, you get 6,832. Russia isn't there yet, but they're getting a pretty brisk start.

orange juche fucked around with this message at 02:39 on Mar 2, 2022

# ? Mar 2, 2022 02:36

CBJSprague24: Dec 5, 2010; another game at nationwide arena. everybody keeps asking me if they can fuck the cannon. buddy, they don't even let me fuck it

Arsenic Lupin posted:

I have no military knowledge. How ridiculous is the Russian loss of equipment up to this point? I don't have anything to compare it to, so I have no sense of the order of magnitude.

Yes.

The expectation by pretty much everyone was that the Russians would Cakewalk into Ukraine and would have their win in less than a week, yet here we are.

# ? Mar 2, 2022 02:38

Eej: Jun 17, 2007; HEAVYARMS

It's wild and it lends credence to the theory that the reason why things are happening the way they are is because the Minister of Defense got replaced a few years ago with a useless yes man and Putin did not expect and/or know how to prepare and execute an actual war rather than a one sided beating of a tiny state with overwhelming power.

# ? Mar 2, 2022 02:39

Icon Of Sin: Dec 26, 2008

Arsenic Lupin posted:

I have no military knowledge. How ridiculous is the Russian loss of equipment up to this point? I don't have anything to compare it to, so I have no sense of the order of magnitude.

That's the thing: none of us really have a scale to compare to. Javelins haven't seen this level of use ever, although they were used in a few battles in Iraq (notably Debecka Pass: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Debecka_Pass). Even then, US SOF only fired about 20 of them, iirc.

# ? Mar 2, 2022 02:41

ASAPI: Apr 20, 2007; I invented the line.

Arsenic Lupin posted:

I have no military knowledge. How ridiculous is the Russian loss of equipment up to this point? I don't have anything to compare it to, so I have no sense of the order of magnitude.

The Russian losses up to this point are impressive. If half of what we are hearing is true, it would be impressive.

I don't think I have seen a military fail this badly before.

# ? Mar 2, 2022 02:42

lightpole: Jun 4, 2004; I think that MBAs are useful, in case you are looking for an answer to the question of "Is lightpole a total fucking idiot".

FrozenVent posted:

Negotiated settlement:

Russia goes back to its 2014 borders, and in exchange…

Nah I really don’t see how there’s a negotiated settlement possible here.

Its a bad faith argument. It makes even less sense with the lion and slave analogy, like saying the slave should be negotiating instead of fighting, like the lion gives a gently caress about having a chat.

lightpole fucked around with this message at 02:46 on Mar 2, 2022

# ? Mar 2, 2022 02:42

Kazinsal: Dec 13, 2011

In less than a week Putin has single-handedly shown the world that main battle tanks truly are the �battleships of the land�, in that they can be killed a couple dudes with a missile launcher less than a tenth of the cost of the now smouldering husk they fired at.

I can�t imagine he�s pleased about this.

# ? Mar 2, 2022 02:43

Spoggerific: May 28, 2009

Arsenic Lupin posted:

I have no military knowledge. How ridiculous is the Russian loss of equipment up to this point? I don't have anything to compare it to, so I have no sense of the order of magnitude.

Wikipedia quotes the allies as taking 10,000 casualties (of which 4,414 died) and losing 185 M4 Sherman tanks on D-day. I also have no military knowledge beyond videogames, but the fact that Russian losses (granted, those reported by the other side, which are definitely inflated) appear to be approaching D-day levels after less than a week is... unthinkable.

# ? Mar 2, 2022 02:45

Arrath: Apr 14, 2011

Kazinsal posted:

In less than a week Putin has single-handedly shown the world that main battle tanks truly are the �battleships of the land�, in that they can be killed a couple dudes with a missile launcher less than a tenth of the cost of the now smouldering husk they fired at.

I can�t imagine he�s pleased about this.

There's about to be a whole bunch of money shoveled into further APS R&D, isn't there?

# ? Mar 2, 2022 02:46

Grip it and rip it: Apr 28, 2020

Arsenic Lupin posted:

I have no military knowledge. How ridiculous is the Russian loss of equipment up to this point? I don't have anything to compare it to, so I have no sense of the order of magnitude.

I'm gonna use this website for the numbers I'll be discussing: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1293424/russia-s-loss-in-the-war-in-ukraine-by-type/

It looks like it's using the Ukrainian reports of casualties, so take it with a huge grain of salt. At the top of the list you'll see that they are claiming that there have been nearly 6000 russian troop's KIA so far. To give you a sense of scale, approximately 4,414 Allied soldiers died on D-Day. Of those 4414, 2501 were Americans. So at this point, even if you were to assume that Ukraine has been doubling their KIA count, Russia has suffered losses close to one of the bloodiest days of WWII.

edit: drat, too slow on the draw.

# ? Mar 2, 2022 02:46

madeintaipei: Jul 13, 2012

NJersey posted:

"Negotiate this Javelin up your loving rear end Putin"
- Ukraine

*looks down at control unit*

Which fire mode is that, exactly?

# ? Mar 2, 2022 02:52

orange juche: Mar 14, 2012

madeintaipei posted:

*looks down at control unit*

Which fire mode is that, exactly?

Top attack probably, want to get some elevation first.

# ? Mar 2, 2022 02:53

Soylent Pudding: Jun 22, 2007; We've got people!

Does the javelin have enough range to cross the table?

# ? Mar 2, 2022 02:55

Icon Of Sin: Dec 26, 2008

Soylent Pudding posted:

Does the javelin have enough range to cross the table?

Max range is ~2km...so maybe?

# ? Mar 2, 2022 02:57

bennyfactor: Nov 21, 2008

NJersey posted:

"Negotiate this Javelin up your loving rear end Putin"
- Ukraine

madeintaipei posted:

*looks down at control unit*

Which fire mode is that, exactly?

orange juche posted:

Top attack probably, want to get some elevation first.

Sounds like more of a bottom attack.

# ? Mar 2, 2022 02:57

bees everywhere: Nov 19, 2002

I'm sure those numbers are somewhat inflated (it's hard enough to get an accurate friendly BDA sometimes) but the large amount of video evidence we've seen makes it pretty clear that they're not having a happy invasion.

# ? Mar 2, 2022 02:58