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cinci zoo sniper posted:The reason for this is that the same factories that make tractors for farmers do also make tanks, for the same farmers to drive during war time. American tanks could easily have completely alien design language, as far as controls go. Also Ukraine has had mandatory service for the last 8 years with postings at the front lines in Donbas. A lot of those farmers are probably vets in their own regional defense forces. The media focuses on Kyiv but the regional defense forces have been spun up in every town and city in Ukraine.
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Mar 2, 2022 17:40
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Kraftwerk posted:Like how hard can it possibly be? The only thing issues I can see would be spares, maintenance and training How hard could it possibly be? *points out a bunch of hard poo poo*
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Mar 2, 2022 17:40
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cinci zoo sniper posted:The reason for this is that the same factories that make tractors for farmers do also make tanks, for the same farmers to drive during war time. American tanks could easily have completely alien design language, as far as controls go. Americans are also extremely careful that M1s don't fall into the hands of an enemy. There is some genuinely secret stuff that gets put into those tanks.
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Mar 2, 2022 17:41
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sean10mm posted:I think it depends on how long this drags out. Past a certain point it becomes practical to train Ukrainians on more advanced Western equipment in e.g. Poland and then deliver it. Not particularly a question for you, but for anyone who might know, of the realistic and practical AA that could be sent through, is that something that is hard to train up on, or is that more, drive a truck that has that on the back, near a place that might have planes missiles attacking it, and press the "hey try and stop that poo poo" button. Also side question has there been any movement at all at giving/selling Ukraine the Iron Dome stuff. Like it seems the people in Ukraine are willing to hold out a lot, but gently caress like their cities are getting bombed to poo poo. Like Javelins and nlaws seem great at taking out armour, but it's so horrible that it just seems AA stuff to protect people from getting there cites flattened doesn't seem to b there. Like probably missing something. but, yeah.
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Mar 2, 2022 17:41
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cinci zoo sniper posted:The reason for this is that the same factories that make tractors for farmers do also make tanks, for the same farmers to drive during war time. American tanks could easily have completely alien design language, as far as controls go. Also going from a pretty simple v-12 diesel engine to a gas turbine engine would probably be a learning curve.
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Mar 2, 2022 17:42
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Pook Good Mook posted:Americans are also extremely careful that M1s don't fall into the hands of an enemy. There is some genuinely secret stuff that gets put into those tanks. Also how a fleet of the USA's main battle tank crossing the polish border would look to Russia
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Mar 2, 2022 17:43
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Pook Good Mook posted:Americans are also extremely careful that M1s don't fall into the hands of an enemy. There is some genuinely secret stuff that gets put into those tanks. Its a tank not an F-35, we gave Iraq a fuckload of them
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Mar 2, 2022 17:43
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cinci zoo sniper posted:The reason for this is that the same factories that make tractors for farmers do also make tanks, for the same farmers to drive during war time. American tanks could easily have completely alien design language, as far as controls go. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-aT2Bf5UhM Find a guy who can speak Ukranian and I give it a week before they can drive the things. But yeah I overlooked MX and Spares and top secret info. So its not tenable.
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Mar 2, 2022 17:43
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Zephro posted:Hell, America spent literally trillions of dollars in a failed war in Afghanistan after 9/11. There's no rational economic calculus under which that could possibly have been worth it. They could have covered half of lower Manhattan in World Trade Centres and made all the families of the dead millionaires and had a whole bunch of change left to spend on hospitals or chip factories or ice cream shops or literally any sort of halfway-productive economic investment, but they didn't. They blew it all up, quite literally, in Afghanistan. Of course there is. That trillions of dollars went to American defense contractors. The US War on Terror was good for business. So is crisis capitalism generally.  It really is a different thing altogether, for a whole host of reasons (including nothing about this war is good for Russian business), for a large advanced industrial country like the Russian Federation to turn itself into a hermit kingdom, when the Russian people have gotten used to a particular standard of living. On top of that, unlike one of the World Wars, there is no 'enemy' you can beat to return the economic lives of regular Russians back to normal. That was that carrot before the nationalistic horse for most countries under war austerity during the First and Second World Wars. ZombieLenin fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Mar 2, 2022 |
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Mar 2, 2022 17:43
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Charlotte Hornets posted:What are American squatting laws? How long can you squat in a sanctioned oligarch penthouse in NY or hold boat parties somewhere in Florida till it's legally yours? If squatting was illegal in those homes, the russians could never stay there 
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Mar 2, 2022 17:44
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dr_rat posted:Not particularly a question for you, but for anyone who might know, of the realistic and practical AA that could be sent through, is that something that is hard to train up on, or is that more, drive a truck that has that on the back, near a place that might have planes missiles attacking it, and press the "hey try and stop that poo poo" button. No. Put any of that hardware next to a city and what do you think will happen? And it would indeed be a provocation to start supplying that sort of poo poo. Besides, the asymetric success that individual-served stuff is creating is mind blowing to me.
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Mar 2, 2022 17:45
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i am a moron posted:They are not the US Army What are they?
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Mar 2, 2022 17:45
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Kraftwerk posted:The engine runs on loving bunker fuel if you need it to so it's not like Ukraine is a hostile environment to this kind of stuff. no, the abrams has a turbine engine that runs on a mixture of diesel and kerosene based jp-8 jet fuel. it is iirc the only MBT that uses a turbine. it definitely will not run on bunker fuel. its a bit of a maintenance hog and a poor candidate for just giving to a friendly force in the middle of active combat, unless you intend for the things to be effectively disposable. otherwise you'd have to set up a whole supply chain of parts, mechanics, training programs for the mechanics, so on etc as was stated earlier, the far better thing to hand over in the middle of a war is small arms and easily integrated weapons systems like shoulder fired rockets and the like. night vision goggles and ammunition and so on. things that are of immediate benefit right now and not things that would require weeks to learn how to use properly, and by weeks i don't just mean learning how to drive the thing but how do you load the gun? how do you care for the treads? what do you do when this red warning light comes on? and so forth Mr. Fall Down Terror fucked around with this message at 17:49 on Mar 2, 2022 |
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Mar 2, 2022 17:46
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dr_rat posted:Not particularly a question for you, but for anyone who might know, of the realistic and practical AA that could be sent through, is that something that is hard to train up on, or is that more, drive a truck that has that on the back, near a place that might have planes missiles attacking it, and press the "hey try and stop that poo poo" button. AA "systems" are not something that are made to be learned quickly and they use dedicated operators. It is not as simple as driving someplace, unpacking, and turning it on. For starters, you're expecting the only thing in the sky to shoot at is Russian, when we know that isn't the case. Unit level AA is much simpler to train, disburse, and use. Iron Dome-esque things might be nice but Ukraine already has a similar system for shooting down missles and planes. Also, and probably more important, there's strong evidence that Russia has pretty much used most of their guided and slower munitions and are now left with "dumb" projectiles that are much harder to stop or intercept.
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Mar 2, 2022 17:46
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dr_rat posted:
Unless you've got Israel-level hardware and compact areas to defend against less sophisticated foe it's extremely hard to do a total defense from planes, rockets and cruise missiles. Also Russians have missiles that are designed to take out radar emitters. What Ukrainians can do now is probably switch on radar for a quick moment, shoot the missile and GTFO before counter fire gets to your position. And what you've witnessed with troops using short range portable IR seeking weapons.
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Mar 2, 2022 17:48
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CW: Military shooting towards unarmed civilians. It's a twitter rando, but it looks like authentic footage (Zs on the artillery): https://twitter.com/Den_2042/status/1499059572190949376[ "русский мир" Blurred fucked around with this message at 17:54 on Mar 2, 2022 |
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Mar 2, 2022 17:49
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https://twitter.com/FirstSquawk/status/1499063780688687105
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Mar 2, 2022 17:50
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Rassle posted:Now with audio... Now with text: Sultan Mehmed IV to the Zaporozhian Cossacks: As the Sultan; son of Muhammad; brother of the sun and moon; grandson and viceroy of God; ruler of the kingdoms of Macedonia, Babylon, Jerusalem, Upper and Lower Egypt; emperor of emperors; sovereign of sovereigns; extraordinary knight, never defeated; steadfast guardian of the tomb of Jesus Christ; trustee chosen by God Himself; the hope and comfort of Muslims; confounder and great defender of Christians – I command you, the Zaporogian Cossacks, to submit to me voluntarily and without any resistance, and to desist from troubling me with your attacks. — Turkish Sultan Mehmed IV The Cossacks' reply came as a stream of insulting and vulgar rhymes: Zaporozhian Cossacks to the Turkish Sultan! O sultan, Turkish devil and damned devil's kith and kin, secretary to Lucifer himself. What the devil kind of knight are thou, that canst not slay a hedgehog with your naked arse? The devil shits, and your army eats. Thou shalt not, thou son of a whore, make subjects of Christian sons. We have no fear of your army; by land and by sea we will battle with thee. gently caress thy mother. Thou Babylonian scullion, Macedonian wheelwright, brewer of Jerusalem, goat-fucker of Alexandria, swineherd of Greater and Lesser Egypt, pig of Armenia, Podolian thief, catamite of Tartary, hangman of Kamyanets, and fool of all the world and underworld, an idiot before God, grandson of the Serpent, and the crick in our dick. Pig's snout, mare's arse, slaughterhouse cur, unchristened brow. Screw thine own mother! So the Zaporozhians declare, you lowlife. You won't even be herding pigs for the Christians. Now we'll conclude, for we don't know the date and don't own a calendar; the moon's in the sky, the year with the Lord. The day's the same over here as it is over there; for this kiss our arse! — Koshovyi otaman Ivan Sirko, with the whole Zaporozhian Host Edit: Cheer's for the responses on my AA question! Makes sense, sort of expected it, but would of been good if it was other. 
dr_rat fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Mar 2, 2022 |
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Mar 2, 2022 17:50
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Blurred posted:It's a twitter rando, but it looks like authentic footage (Zs on the artillery): Can you please spoiler that, as its certainly traumatic.
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Mar 2, 2022 17:50
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Warbadger posted:The heavy Ukrainian units have been conspicuously absent up until this offensive. They had a bunch of them tied up at the border with the contested regions that Russia planned to encircle on day 1, and it looks like they just broke a chunk out of the anvil while the hammer was stuck in traffic. dr_rat posted:Not particularly a question for you, but for anyone who might know, of the realistic and practical AA that could be sent through, is that something that is hard to train up on, or is that more, drive a truck that has that on the back, near a place that might have planes missiles attacking it, and press the "hey try and stop that poo poo" button. Zero_Grade fucked around with this message at 18:01 on Mar 2, 2022 |
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Mar 2, 2022 17:50
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Pook Good Mook posted:Americans are also extremely careful that M1s don't fall into the hands of an enemy. There is some genuinely secret stuff that gets put into those tanks. It's a tank for which the basic hull was designed in the 70s. It's not super science. Saudi Arabia has managed to operate them about as competently in Yemen as the Russians have theirs in Ukraine, though at a smaller scale.
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Mar 2, 2022 17:50
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cinci zoo sniper posted:Unlikely. Obviously, I'm not a Patriot operator, but my understanding is that a lot of NATO poo poo require university degree to operate, which is why we've been flooding Ukraine specifically with missile launchers that a goat farmer can be trained into over a bottle. You can become an Apache pilot in the US army right out of high school, its $40 milliom flying death machine. In many cases NATO equipment is actually easier to operate than Russian equipment.
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Mar 2, 2022 17:51
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Pook Good Mook posted:Obviously this can't be verified, but deep in your heart, you know it's real. Russian tank tries to cross crappy rickety bridge near a village, goes as you'd expect. Can't some military tech uber nerd look at the tracks and say "Ah yes this is a T-whatever mainly used by X side"?
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Mar 2, 2022 17:51
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Randarkman posted:It's a tank for which the basic hull was designed in the 70s. It's not super science. Saudi Arabia has managed to operate them about as competently in Yemen as the Russians have, though at a smaller scale. Yes, but we do not give them the fully upgraded/modern variant that the United States Army uses.
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Mar 2, 2022 17:52
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Abrams require support that's just not really feasible for Ukraine ATM. Their fuel consumption is heavy, the engine requires trained units for maintenance, and JP-8 fuel is expensive as it is. With tooling, you can run the Abrams on anything (Australia runs them on diesel), but there are still plenty of T-series tanks sitting around Eastern Europe that can use existing knowledge and infrastructure.
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Mar 2, 2022 17:52
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What? Today?
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Mar 2, 2022 17:53
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What's the likelihood of establishing the requested "safety corridors?" https://twitter.com/IuliiaMendel/status/1499055380239990792?t=q3o6kMqK6GtKbUPCvehhcw&s=19 From what I've seen the language has shifted away from asking for a no fly zone to requests like the above, safety corridors to evacuate noncombatants and bring in humanitarian aid. I think I already know the answer 
KitConstantine fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Mar 2, 2022 |
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Mar 2, 2022 17:53
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Xachariah posted:Can't some military tech uber nerd look at the tracks and say "Ah yes this is a T-whatever mainly used by X side"? The problem with that is that a lot of Russia's T-whatevers were built in Ukraine.
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Mar 2, 2022 17:53
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KitConstantine posted:What's the likelihood of establishing the requested "safety corridors?" Why the gently caress would the Russians let you set up a corridor where you can bring food into a city they're putting under siege? I'm not attacking the residents or leaders of Ukrainian cities, but there is no way in hell Russia does this.
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Mar 2, 2022 17:54
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OctaMurk posted:You can become an Apache pilot in the US army right out of high school, its $40 milliom flying death machine. In many cases NATO equipment is actually easier to operate than Russian equipment. Yeah as I understand it, there's a bit of a popular culture myth regarding the ease of use and reliability of Soviet equipment, it's really only true for some outstanding pieces of equipment from the 50s/60s like the T-54/55, RPG-7 and of course the Kalashnikovs. Outside of that it seems the story with much of it is that it's not reliable and breaks down alot and in general are big maintenance hogs. ZombieLenin posted:Yes, but we do not give them the fully upgraded/modern variant that the United States Army uses. I see, the "monkey model" clause. And Saudi Arabia, as far as I can tell operate the newest versions of the M1A2 variant.
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Mar 2, 2022 17:54
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Xachariah posted:Can't some military tech uber nerd look at the tracks and say "Ah yes this is a T-whatever mainly used by X side"? Hard to tell from the bottom of the tank, the identifying parts are turret/body/wheels and you can't really see that there. The T series often use the same track styles.
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Mar 2, 2022 17:55
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Mr. Fall Down Terror posted:no, the abrams has a turbine engine that runs on a mixture of diesel and kerosene based jp-8 jet fuel. it is iirc the only MBT that uses a turbine. afaik T-80 uses a turbine engine except Ukrainian models which are converted to diesel
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Mar 2, 2022 17:55
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Pook Good Mook posted:What? Today? No, that is their claim for the entire "special operation". 498 dead for Russia, and 1597 wounded. 2870 dead for Ukraine, 3700 wounded for Ukraine, and 572 Ukrainian POWs.
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Mar 2, 2022 17:57
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Pook Good Mook posted:Why the gently caress would the Russians let you set up a corridor where you can bring food into a city they're putting under siege? I'm not attacking the residents or leaders of Ukrainian cities, but there is no way in hell Russia does this. That's what I thought I wasn't sure if there was international rules or something about that kind of thing as opposed to active maintenance of a no fly zone. And cynically it's better messaging because it does sound so much more achievable.
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Mar 2, 2022 17:58
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Pook Good Mook posted:Why the gently caress would the Russians let you set up a corridor where you can bring food into a city they're putting under siege? I'm not attacking the residents or leaders of Ukrainian cities, but there is no way in hell Russia does this. It was a thing that happened in second Chechen war. People that were evacuated said Russian pilots sometimes for fun dropped grenades on them, but most of them did end up evacuating.
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Mar 2, 2022 17:58
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Xachariah posted:Can't some military tech uber nerd look at the tracks and say "Ah yes this is a T-whatever mainly used by X side"? I can only tell by the tracks that it's either a T-80 or T-90 (a massively upgraded form of the T-72) as they're built for those "butterflied" tracks. If I saw the roadwheels I could tell right away.
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Mar 2, 2022 17:58
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Jesus Christ https://twitter.com/IuliiaMendel/status/1499066324995256329?t=pP7Tsy5cmXCBb1NOA41NDw&s=19
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Mar 2, 2022 17:59
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Second round of Russia-Ukraine ceasefire talks seems to have been rescheduled for tomorrow.
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Mar 2, 2022 18:00
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https://twitter.com/MarkLGoldberg/status/1499066498261868547 141 in favor 5 against (North Korea, Russia, Belarus, Eritrea, Syria) 35 abstentions
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Mar 2, 2022 18:00
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OctaMurk posted:You can become an Apache pilot in the US army right out of high school, its $40 milliom flying death machine. In many cases NATO equipment is actually easier to operate than Russian equipment. 10 weeks of basic training, 5 weeks warent officer training(or 12 weeks officer school if your a college boy), and 32 weeks in flight school then 14+ weeks airframe specific training. On top of that it's probably some of the tightest duty fitness requirements in the army. So about a year and a half. You can teach someone to drive a tank in about 4 weeks, but American equipment is high maintenance for high performance.
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Mar 2, 2022 18:01
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