|
Kraftwerk posted:What are a million men going to do under relentless artillery attack that they have no equipment with which to counter? Without air support it's like shooting fish in a barrel unless they run out of rockets/shells. Worked for the Soviets against the Nazis!
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 05:42
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 05:45 |
|
|
Kraftwerk posted:What are a million men going to do under relentless artillery attack that they have no equipment with which to counter? Without air support it's like shooting fish in a barrel unless they run out of rockets/shells. Russia has the advantage in the air, but they don't have air superiority yet.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 05:43
|
|
|
Kraftwerk posted:What are a million men going to do under relentless artillery attack that they have no equipment with which to counter? Without air support it's like shooting fish in a barrel unless they run out of rockets/shells. NATO isn't going to run out of Stingers/Javelins to give them
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 05:43
|
|
|
WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:Breakthrough, sabotage, deny, decline attack, and decisive strike. Those are very easy verbs to say, much harder to actually perform in real life. Especially for untrained civilians who were handed a rifle a week ago.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 05:44
|
|
|
Scapegoat posted:EU sanctions question. The EU is quite united in it's sanctions at the moment, would they need a similar unity to dismantle the sanctions? Can Putin weasel away at one member to get things loosened or the boulder rolling now and it needs everyone to stop it? Depends on the specific wording, there could be several options. In neither of them a rebel state could do anything.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 05:44
|
|
|
Saint Kyivanka posted:Worked for the Soviets against the Nazis! I'm like 80% sure the Soviet Union had planes and tanks in World War 2.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 05:45
|
|
|
Gripweed posted:Those are very easy verbs to say, much harder to actually perform in real life. Especially for untrained civilians who were handed a rifle a week ago. Okay but we're talking about the ukranians not Russian conscripts. All jokes aside, there's a lot of trained soldiers in these cities. Most men in the country have been rotated in and out of Donbass over the last 8 years. So "untrained civilian" may be true for some, but not all the non unit based armed units.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 05:45
|
|
|
WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:Okay but we're talking about the ukranians not Russian conscripts. I was also talking about the Ukranians.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 05:46
|
|
|
Gripweed posted:Those are very easy verbs to say, much harder to actually perform in real life. Especially for untrained civilians who were handed a rifle a week ago. We've gone over this a bunch but as others have pointed out due to recent events in Ukraine and the fact they do/did conscription there's going to be a sizable amount of the civilian population with military experince. And while its probably not as great as professional soldiers it's still something.q
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 05:46
|
|
|
Putin is nuts. Wonder what those letters looked like. oh its bullshit /sigh
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 05:47
|
|
|
Gripweed posted:I'm like 80% sure the Soviet Union had planes and tanks in World War 2. They did ultimately, but when countering the initial Nazi success, they relied on A LOT of bodies being sent into the meatgrinder to help slow, pause, then reverse Germany's attacks.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 05:48
|
|
|
So there is a RC-135V Rivet Joint and a RC-135U Combat Sent up at the same time in the same area along with a NATO E-3. That NEVER happens. I assume that the Odessa landings are about to start but that is pure speculation on my part.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 05:48
|
|
|
It will be really interesting to see how far India and China are willing to support Russia if their economy continues to sink.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 05:48
|
|
|
NEXTA had pushed several dubious stories in the recent days. I’d exercise some caution with taking their stuff at face value.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 05:49
|
|
|
BoldFace posted:It will be really interesting to see how far India and China are willing to support Russia if their economy continues to sink. It might be a smart move because they have a chance to make Russia heavily dependent on them and their imports.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 05:49
|
|
|
I'll probably hunker down and watch a "man these russians are hosed up" movie since it'll be so different and take my mind off stuff
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 05:50
|
|
|
the popes toes posted:I'll probably hunker down and watch a "man these russians are hosed up" movie since it'll be so different and take my mind off stuff It is important to take breaks and do something distracting during times like these because you can burn out hard. Make sure you all take care of yourselves.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 05:51
|
|
|
Saint Kyivanka posted:They did ultimately, but when countering the initial Nazi success, they relied on A LOT of bodies being sent into the meatgrinder to help slow, pause, then reverse Germany's attacks. There’s probably a big difference between rallying to kill nazis who invaded your country and known for killing pows by the millions among other things vs going to kyiv to murder grandma
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 05:54
|
|
|
If anybody is looking for a movie to watch, I strongly recommend The War Game. Classic BBC documentary from the 60s. Definitely worth tracking down.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 05:54
|
|
|
Telsa Cola posted:It might be a smart move because they have a chance to make Russia heavily dependent on them and their imports. Also, probably in their best interest to try to give some measure of stability to their belligerent nuclear neighbor.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 05:54
|
|
|
What's the outlook for Russia if this drags on for 6 months? a year? 5 years? The sanctions aren't going to lift as long as Putin's there, and the Russian economy is in a 600 mph vertical dive. How are they going to maintain an occupation with an absolutely demolished domestic economy? Given who Putin is, does he have an offramp from this misadventure, or will it take an outright collapse to get Russia out of Ukraine?
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 05:55
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:If they don't join nato they can help Ukraine directly Time to get Petsamo back!
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 05:56
|
|
|
SaTaMaS posted:NATO isn't going to run out of Stingers/Javelins to give them Yes- but your stingers javelins aren't going to stop them from bombarding you with rockets and artillery that have a longer effective range than the entrenched positions from which you'd be firing these. They will be blowing you up while having sufficient men to maintain a consistent line that can pressure you with mechanized equipment. If you so much as drop a javelin missile from hip height, it no longer works. Pressure waves from explosions can gently caress up their guidance systems as well. It's a good system that forces the Russians to be selective about when they use their mechanized equipment but without some way to press for speed or provide sufficient cover from artillery your javs will never have line of sight to lock onto the launchers and more conventional tube artillery. A 152MM howitzer of modern make has guidance systems built into the shells and even a "dumb" round can level an entire McMansion and half the neighboring one with a single direct hit. This is not nice stuff and if the Russians are getting their poo poo together they will mass as much artillery as they can and blast holes into the Ukranian lines with relentless bombardments and then see if they can create an opening to attack/encircle with. Sitting there and waiting for them is untenable. You need some way to counter attack or they'll just burn you out eventually. Stingers likewise depend on fragile stuff like battery packs that contain an argon gas cannister to cool the missile seeker head sufficiently for operation. Hardcore shelling and bombardment with thermobaric weapons and other explosives will destroy a lot of this equipment as people run to take cover or get suppressed from their positions. That's when the tanks move in and it's probably how the Russians are gaining territory as these things start misfiring or everyone is too shell shocked to respond and has to retreat because they're too punch drunk from all the explosions. The longer you occupy a single position the more likely they'll just kill you with arty. I'm sure the Ukrainians have ways to fight with fast moving maneuver warfare but there's no time left to replenish and rebuild whatever is being destroyed. There's not enough fortifications and bunkers beyond what you might be able to do in a city which would obviously be under siege to starve you out first. The Ukranians need an airforce with ground attack capability and anti-radiation missiles. Without that they're basically pinned down short of some miracle they can exploit and then try to hit the rear ecehelons with.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 05:56
|
|
|
Gripweed posted:If anybody is looking for a movie to watch, I strongly recommend The War Game. Classic BBC documentary from the 60s. Definitely worth tracking down. I was looking for Talvisota and realized that some of my sources were, er, unavailable. drat your eyes, Mr Putin!
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 05:58
|
|
|
ethanol posted:There’s probably a big difference between rallying to kill nazis who invaded your country and known for killing pows by the millions among other things vs going to kyiv to murder grandma I think you're misinterpreting the conversation. The response was that one million Ukrainians coming up to engage the Russian invasion forces, won't have enough impact because Russia is the more well-equipped force. I simply pointed out that the Soviets were able to begin countering early Nazi success by effectively throwing troops constantly into battle, even at a time when Germany had a superior air force and more advanced tanks. Effectively the same circumstances now: the invaded country has a potential personnel advantage due to the population. Obviously there's 80 years of time in between, but with how many weapons the West is sending into Ukraine, it's not necessarily as different as one might think. Edit: And I think "We hate Russians AND they're invading our country/killing our grandmothers/killing our children" is just as good of a motivator as what the Soviet citizens had vs. the Nazis. Saint Kyivanka fucked around with this message at 06:00 on Mar 3, 2022 |
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 05:58
|
|
|
America is one presidential election from potentially having a Putin puppet in charge (again) so I’m guessing Putin is aiming hard for any and all sanctions to be stripped away on Jan 21, 2025.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 05:58
|
|
|
Saint Kyivanka posted:I think you're misinterpreting the conversation. Oh I misread sorry, I thought you were saying the Russians can just throw soviet numbers at this.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 05:59
|
|
|
Saint Kyivanka posted:They did ultimately, but when countering the initial Nazi success, they relied on A LOT of bodies being sent into the meatgrinder to help slow, pause, then reverse Germany's attacks. The Russians didn't send bodies into the meatgrinder. Losses were awful because war is awful, the idea of soviet just throwing bodies at the problem is a lie. They used support fires, they had planes, they had tanks and they made efforts to use them even early in the war. Throwing a bunch of people with rifles and ATGMs at an Army is not a strategy that "worked" in the eastern front and its not a strategy that Ukraine should try and replicate, it will get a lot of people killed.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 05:59
|
|
|
Hmmm... According to the NASA fire map there were zero fires in the Ukraine in the last 24 hours....  I guess that might be weather conditions, or do you think they might be filtering it for some reason...?
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 06:00
|
|
|
All 3 of those recon planes being near Odessa is a bad sign.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 06:01
|
|
|
Ciprian Maricon posted:The Russians didn't send bodies into the meatgrinder. Losses were awful because war is awful, the idea of soviet just throwing bodies at the problem is a lie. They used support fires, they had planes, they had tanks and they made efforts to use them even early in the war. Throwing a bunch of people with rifles and ATGMs at an Army is not a strategy that "worked" in the eastern front and its not a strategy that Ukraine should try and replicate, it will get a lot of people killed. This isn't true. To break the various sieges that some of the cities were under, they absolutely kept sending troops in, and suffered substantially higher casualties relative to the German army, excluding even civilian casualties. Edit: Also a bit of  that equipping anyone who could hold a rifle, with a rifle, and having them defend against the Nazis, wasn't sending them into a "meatgrinder", and just that "war is awful". War can be awful AND still be accurate in saying that sending untrained/poorly trained residents to defend against an invasion force is sending bodies into a meatgrinder. Saint Kyivanka fucked around with this message at 06:08 on Mar 3, 2022 |
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 06:02
|
|
|
Fray posted:Pleasure to meet you Mr. Carlin. Shes Not Impressed posted:This is exactly how Dan Carlin is thinking about this right before he dives into NATO expansionism gently caress, I don't know who that is. Hope he's not an rear end in a top hat, all I saw on a quick google search was a white middle aged podcaster in a black baseball cap and those aren't usually great signs. It did seem to work alright as an analogy, with all the usual imperfect caveats that those come with, though.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 06:02
|
|
|
cinci zoo sniper posted:NEXTA had pushed several dubious stories in the recent days. I’d exercise some caution with taking their stuff at face value. It looks like they got it from here... Still, wait and see it good advice. https://twitter.com/EchoMskNews/status/1499217810148540420
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 06:06
|
|
|
BoldFace posted:It will be really interesting to see how far India and China are willing to support Russia if their economy continues to sink. HolHorsejob posted:What's the outlook for Russia if this drags on for 6 months? a year? 5 years? The sanctions aren't going to lift as long as Putin's there, and the Russian economy is in a 600 mph vertical dive. How are they going to maintain an occupation with an absolutely demolished domestic economy? Given who Putin is, does he have an offramp from this misadventure, or will it take an outright collapse to get Russia out of Ukraine? China is going to be the one who is going to is going to be able to stop this and Russia is going to be subservient to and utterly dependent on them. They will look at Russia as cheap slave labor effectively, much how the Soviets looked upon the Chinese at one point. The Chinese will be utterly brutal to enact control and order there too. India doesn't have as much pull with Russia as China does and will. Modi will likely be a lot more vulnerable without Putin as he won't have Russia and the West to play off of each other as he can't pull the same with China. India is going to be in a conundrum in terms of military hardware as well since they have invested quite a bit in modern Russian material. With support and spares likely a lot harder to come by things might change there rapidly.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 06:07
|
|
|
Anubis posted:gently caress, I don't know who that is. Hope he's not an rear end in a top hat, all I saw on a quick google search was a white middle aged podcaster in a black baseball cap and those aren't usually great signs. It did seem to work alright as an analogy, with all the usual imperfect caveats that those come with, though. Listen to a podcast of his. Very good at explaining and really researching into conflicts of the past. Is not a fascist.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 06:08
|
|
|
Anubis posted:gently caress, I don't know who that is. Hope he's not an rear end in a top hat, all I saw on a quick google search was a white middle aged podcaster in a black baseball cap and those aren't usually great signs. It did seem to work alright as an analogy, with all the usual imperfect caveats that those come with, though. He was a radio host and is now an active history podcaster. Makes podcasts called "Hardcore History" where he tries to give you dramatic explanation of what it's actually like to for example fight in the Pacific Theatre of WW2 or what it might've been like to fight the Persian Empire at Marathon. He gives you a lot of details beginning with the politics and cultures of the times and then how those things influenced the way people fought the wars. Basically he makes a very intense effort to show you just how terrifying and awful war is in a way that your history teacher can't.... Like how in the somme the shell holes often filled with water and liquefied chemicals from munitions and gas attacks that create a toxic deadly soup that'll kill you if you sit in it. Or he'll tell you how if you fought the Japanese in Singapore they'd often attack at night when you can't really see them, shouting in English from concealed positions so you aren't sure if friendlies are nearby and secretly sneaking into nearby foxholes and butchering your comrades to death while you sleep and then you wake up and find your buddy got chopped up and his penis has been stuffed in his mouth... Stuff like that... I think the reason why he might be unpopular is because he's taken a "both sides" approach regarding recent political events in the US. He likes to play devil's advocate a lot and I think that pisses people off. Anyway he uses a lot of boxing analogies when describing how great powers go to war. Kraftwerk fucked around with this message at 06:12 on Mar 3, 2022 |
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 06:08
|
|
|
Djarum posted:China is going to be the one who is going to is going to be able to stop this and Russia is going to be subservient to and utterly dependent on them. They will look at Russia as cheap slave labor effectively, much how the Soviets looked upon the Chinese at one point. The Chinese will be utterly brutal to enact control and order there too. If Russia effectively becomes dependent on China long-term, and China pulls Pakistan into its orbit, it seems like India is going to be the odd one out.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 06:14
|
|
|
Aw, the Anonymous Twitter got shutdown? I was kinda excited to see if they'd compromise any exciting Russian systems.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 06:15
|
|
|
Dan Carlin is unpopular for history buffs because hes very obviously doing pop history and because he does pop history his podcasts have all the issues associated with pop history. So for like a detailed overlook of an ongoing world changing crisis I would not recommend. In the A/T ancient history thread his mention basically made everyone groan.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 06:15
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 05:45 |
|
|
This was in The Week. I don't know what the gently caress to believe anymore. It's good psyops at any rate. Wait no, I don't believe it. "We are well aware of the special operation that was to take place directly by the Kadyrovites to eliminate our president. And I can say that we have received information from the FSB, who today do not want to take part in this bloody war," Danilov said. https://theweek.com/russo-ukrainian-war/1010835/ukraine-reportedly-foiled-a-zelensky-assassination-plot-after-a-tipoff
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 06:17
|
|