|
bad_fmr posted:More Maakuntas for Kepu to grift in The historical destiny of the Finnish peoples is to bring all lands between the Gulf of Finland and the Urals into Welfare Areas and to open them for peat farming, as Kekkonen intended
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 10:10
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 08:13 |
|
|
Ok wait what is this then (sorry if posted already): https://mobile.twitter.com/EchoMskNews/status/1499217810148540420 Translation from Google Translate: "Finland and Sweden, which are not members of NATO, received letters from the Kremlin demanding that Russia provide security guarantees" Is this actually true...? What the gently caress? 
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 10:13
|
|
|
barbecue at the folks posted:Believe me, there is zero appetite in Finland for relitigating the status of Karelia, it's a run down piece of land mismanaged for decades that has worth only as a big supply of pinewood, and we have more than enough of that already, thank you. Even joking about it feels a bit, uh, uncomfortable right now. But we can detach ourselves from the idiotic Ottawa treaty and create a Karelia-sized minefield after taking them trees.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 10:13
|
|
|
Finnish foreign ministry denies receiving such letter.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 10:15
|
|
|
barbecue at the folks posted:It's now well understood that the "constructive ambiguity" around NATO has run its course, we're again neighbours with a belligerent totalitarian state, and the decision to join/not join must be taken soon. There's a cold war looming and unlike in the last one, there has not been a huge existential hot war in Europe that would have allowed Finland to "freeze" its position as a neutral state in the aftermath. Finland has already taken a side and now it only remains to be decided how our political integration to the West is managed. The polls signal a strong support for NATO membership and almost every party in the parliament is more or less open to the idea if not already supporting it, we're gonna see some major shift happen sooner or later. I personally think that since Finland and Sweden are already NATO-in-all-but-name, the decision will be taken jointly and it will be for the membership. But then again, traditionally the biggest party opposing NATO is right now running the government, and several cabinet parties did not do as well as everyone expected on the regional elections. So they do not want to rock the boat for the next nationals, since going to NATO would mean that Kokoomus was right all the time. The prime minister and president both seem to be dragging their feet on the issue in press, and YLE seems to daily dig up some "we did not join NATO earlier because we can live without" -hit piece on the topic for whatever reasons. They are stalling it right now hoping to see the support numbers start to dwindle, because they do not want to do anything that might affect their ratings, and this is more or less the same cabinet that made a mess of all COVID-19 measurements after the initial 6 months when they switched some seats because of Keskusta changing leadership and one minister leaving for maternity leave. So its not absolutely sure yet that we manage to get into NATO before Putin decides that Eastern Finland should be in the Karelian oblast. Der Kyhe fucked around with this message at 10:20 on Mar 3, 2022 |
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 10:17
|
|
|
jaete posted:Is this actually true...? What the gently caress? There's been a bit of discussion over the last few pages, but yeah it's probably not real.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 10:18
|
|
|
Drone_Fragger posted:Anyone ultra focusing on the Azov battalion is falling straight into the fsb and Putin psyops trying to revision the war as being somehow Ukraine's fault. The only people bringing up the Azov battalion as something that actually somehow justifies the war are also not convinced that this war is an existential threat to Ukraine and Ukrainian identity. The messaging and sheer violence of the invasion has apparently not fully convinced everyone that Russia has little interest on the well being of the Ukrainian people.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 10:20
|
|
|
loving lol at all the armchair generals itt (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 10:21
|
|
|
Also if the Azov group is really bugging you please look up the wagner group.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 10:22
|
|
|
I quit following our Leftist twitter completely over the non-stop loving whataboutist Just Asking Questions, If You Support Ukraine Then Why Aren't You Just As Worried About Palestine -style deflecting, handwringing about the Azov battalions and how, somehow, this is all imperialist NATO's fault and how Ukraine apparently should have no agency at all in deciding its own fate as an independent state. It seems that the latent desire to be dominated by someone like Daddy Vova overrides any attempt to deal with the matter at hand.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 10:25
|
|
|
Despera posted:Also if the Azov group is really bugging you please look up the wagner group. Look, everyone knows that only the victim's issues are the problem here. It's Ukraine's fault for having nazis, that's why Russia was forced to invade them using nazis. They were asking for it! (Given the state of discussion I feel I must specify the above is sarcasm)
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 10:26
|
|
|
Kavros posted:a lot of this whole operation on the russan side has felt like evidence that the first generation of people who think they understand war from their time playing video games have now filtered up into command, and they based the invasion on a "hold the capital for 3 turns" win condition meta Nah, people who play video games would know the importance of logistics and total air superiority.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 10:26
|
|
|
ronya posted:I'm sad that I kept seeing posts asking what the endgame is, so I idly sketched what the endgame could be, and nobody told me how stupid that sketch is. So here it is again: I think Putin is past the point of 'easy offramp'. Russia will have to start getting real bogged down in order for him to find those conditions acceptable, and if that is the case I find it diffilcult to believe Ukraine will be willing to meet those if they have Russia in a stalemate. The current and still accepted peace settlement for Putin is the demilitization of the Ukranian Army and the denazification of the government, whatever exactly that entails I do not think their will be peace until Putin thinks those conditions are met.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 10:27
|
|
|
Young Freud posted:Why would want to be associated with the lovely, poor morale Z troops and not something like V or X? Because they need all the support they can get.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 10:27
|
|
|
uXs posted:Nah, people who play video games would know the importance of logistics and total air superiority. People don't play RTS as much these days, it's all fps now.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 10:31
|
|
|
Kraftwerk posted:Speaking of winter war, I wonder if Sabaton will make a song about this war eventually? I'm like 30 pages late on this one, but Sabaton seem to be pro-Putin at least in some caliber. They held a concert for Putin's biker gang Night Wolves in Crimea after its been annexed. Since the war broke out their fans have been asking them to condemn Russia's actions to which 5 days into the war they posted that they sing about war but there should be no more bloodshed, without mentioning Russia or Ukraine etc. So don't be surprised if the song about this will be something weird.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 10:31
|
|
|
barbecue at the folks posted:I quit following our Leftist twitter completely over the non-stop loving whataboutist Just Asking Questions, If You Support Ukraine Then Why Aren't You Just As Worried About Palestine -style deflecting, handwringing about the Azov battalions and how, somehow, this is all imperialist NATO's fault and how Ukraine apparently should have no agency at all in deciding its own fate as an independent state. It seems that the latent desire to be dominated by someone like Daddy Vova overrides any attempt to deal with the matter at hand. It's always good to remember that these people are a small, insignificant force in western society. Hanging around on Twitter or SA seriously distorts the perspective of how serious the problem is.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 10:32
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:Look, everyone knows that only the victim's issues are the problem here. It's Ukraine's fault for having nazis, that's why Russia was forced to invade them using nazis. They were asking for it! it's also true
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 10:32
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:People don't play RTS as much these days, it's all fps now. or lovely battle royale games. I hate that such a crappy genre became that popular.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 10:33
|
|
|
Dick Ripple posted:The current and still accepted peace settlement for Putin is the demilitization of the Ukranian Army and the denazification of the government, whatever exactly that entails Subjugation as a puppet state, brutal popular suppression, and a re-orientation of existing ukranian natural resources and industry towards kleptocratic coffers in the appropriate circles.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 10:33
|
|
|
ronya posted:I'm sad that I kept seeing posts asking what the endgame is, so I idly sketched what the endgame could be, and nobody told me how stupid that sketch is. So here it is again: The vast majority of Russian speakers in eastern Ukraine don't want to be part of Russia. You gonna force them to live there against their will?
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 10:33
|
|
|
Russia threatens Finland: https://youtu.be/z7_pVrIshxA
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 10:33
|
|
|
Dick Ripple posted:I think Putin is past the point of 'easy offramp'. Russia will have to start getting real bogged down in order for him to find those conditions acceptable, and if that is the case I find it diffilcult to believe Ukraine will be willing to meet those if they have Russia in a stalemate. The current and still accepted peace settlement for Putin is the demilitization of the Ukranian Army and the denazification of the government, whatever exactly that entails I do not think their will be peace until Putin thinks those conditions are met. Where "denazification" means purging of all elements opposed to Russian rule. But yeah it isn't clear a peace is possible short of total defeat for one side or the other. Ukraine is too motivated to keep fighting because theyll be purged by putin anyway if they stop, Putin cannot admit defeat or risk looking weak and losing power.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 10:34
|
|
|
If I was Ukrainian and looked at the other Russian client states like Belarus or Chechnya i would not want to fall under their thumb at all.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 10:35
|
|
|
jaete posted:Ok wait what is this then (sorry if posted already): This is not covered by Swedish media at all so is 99.99% sure to be fake lilljonas fucked around with this message at 10:38 on Mar 3, 2022 |
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 10:36
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:Where "denazification" means purging of all elements opposed to Russian rule. ah I'll think you'll find that Russia had to strike first otherwise the slavering nazi hordes stashed in the reichsbunkers across Ukraine would have been unleashed on the poor Russians https://twitter.com/francska1/status/1499307312191844353
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 10:36
|
|
|
Sandweed posted:If I was Ukrainian and looked at the other Russian client states like Belarus or Chechnya i would not want to fall under their thumb at all. Fwiw Chechnya is not independent, it's a part of the Russian federation.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 10:37
|
|
|
Paracausal posted:ah I'll think you'll find that Russia had to strike first otherwise the slavering nazi hordes stashed in the reichsbunkers across Ukraine would have been unleashed on the poor Russians Basically Ukraine was wearing a really, really short skirt (with a swastika on it)
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 10:38
|
|
|
barbecue at the folks posted:I quit following our Leftist twitter completely over the non-stop loving whataboutist Just Asking Questions, If You Support Ukraine Then Why Aren't You Just As Worried About Palestine -style deflecting, handwringing about the Azov battalions and how, somehow, this is all imperialist NATO's fault and how Ukraine apparently should have no agency at all in deciding its own fate as an independent state. It seems that the latent desire to be dominated by someone like Daddy Vova overrides any attempt to deal with the matter at hand. I've unfollowed quite a few accounts recently for the same reason. I got sucked into a bad content bubble when the conflict kicked off that pumped me full of lovely opinions like the ones you mentioned. (Thank you everyone for piling on me when I made my first post in the other thread. I needed that wakeup slap) I've since spent a fair bit of effort debating with some of the tankier types within my social circle, and it seems that they are under the illusion that Putinism is going to somehow create a communist USSR 2.0 utopia, be it by Putin himself or some mysterious 5th column that is going to magically rise up and overthrow him. This thought seems to make them so drunk that it destroys their logic circuits. It's just logical fallacy after logical fallacy, and them throwing literal Kremlin propaganda back as evidence. It's like talking to brainwashed cult members. I genuinely don't get it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 10:38
|
|
|
slowdave posted:Fwiw Chechnya is not independent, it's a part of the Russian federation. On paper only, it's mostly autonomous. The moment the current Putin backed warlord croaks they are going back to it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 10:40
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:Where "denazification" means purging of all elements opposed to Russian rule. including the actual nazis. we can appreciate the difference of what denazification can mean depending on whos talking when we compare the amount of nazis left in positions of power in east and west germany, after the second world war. do you think the western view on denazification was preferable?
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 10:41
|
|
|
lollontee posted:including the actual nazis. we can appreciate the difference of what denazification can mean depending on whos talking when we compare the amount of nazis left in positions of power in east and west germany, after the second world war. do you think the western view on denazification was preferable? There is an overwhelming military force pushing right now to conquer a sovereign country in Europe and erase its identity.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 10:48
|
|
|
fnox posted:There is an overwhelming military force pushing right now to conquer a sovereign country in Europe and erase its identity. tell me more about how this erasure of identity is happening? because there are identities that definately should not exist. like nazi identity
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 10:50
|
|
|
Paracausal posted:ah I'll think you'll find that Russia had to strike first otherwise the slavering nazi hordes stashed in the reichsbunkers across Ukraine would have been unleashed on the poor Russians I mean, the Berlin wall was unironically refered to as the "anti-fascist protection barrier" by the GDR. Supposedly it wasn't there to keep the Warsaw pact population imprisoned but to keep the deeply fascists West out
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 10:50
|
|
|
Yes the example of East and West Germany actually tells us that only the West have a poo poo about punishing the Nazis at all, even though it was very flawed. A trend continued by fake anti-imperialist trolls stabbing by ultra nationalist jackbooted fascist this to this day.
steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 10:53 on Mar 3, 2022 |
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 10:51
|
|
|
lollontee posted:including the actual nazis. we can appreciate the difference of what denazification can mean depending on whos talking when we compare the amount of nazis left in positions of power in east and west germany, after the second world war. do you think the western view on denazification was preferable? I think making excuses for Putin's rhetoric in the current invasion right now is not excusable. Putin has very clearly stated he wants to commit a genocide in Ukraine right now.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 10:51
|
|
|
lollontee posted:including the actual nazis. we can appreciate the difference of what denazification can mean depending on whos talking when we compare the amount of nazis left in positions of power in east and west germany, after the second world war. do you think the western view on denazification was preferable? The 'far-right' received ~2% of the vote, not passing the minimum threshold and have no seats in parliament (https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/europe/.premium-the-far-right-just-got-humiliated-in-ukraine-s-election-but-don-t-write-it-off-1.7563138). How on earth is that stretched to be 'denazification is a matter of perspective', it's basically reciting FSB propaganda. And then comparing to the amount of nazi's after WW2? Please go do some reflection on how absolutely insulting that is to the people of Ukraine.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 10:52
|
|
|
lollontee posted:including the actual nazis. we can appreciate the difference of what denazification can mean depending on whos talking when we compare the amount of nazis left in positions of power in east and west germany, after the second world war. do you think the western view on denazification was preferable? i don't think putin is actually interested in removing "nazis" in a serious manner.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 10:53
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:I think making excuses for Putin's rhetoric in the current invasion right now is not excusable. if you think that debating russian objectives in THEE ukraine is making excuses for Putin, id call that a bit of an emotional kneejerk reaction. also, um... genocide?
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 10:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 08:13 |
|
|
Paracausal posted:https://twitter.com/Nrg8000/status/1499299827183931395 I want to see more evidence
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2022 10:54
|
|