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Majorian posted:I knew we should have built a Chernobyl-type sarcophagus over his grave. Wouldn't that just be a regular sarcophagus
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Mar 5, 2022 00:37
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I'm split. these might literally be people trying to survive by taking stuff. IDK.
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Mar 5, 2022 00:37
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Failed Imagineer posted:I wish this thread was a No No Fly Zone Zone Your wish will become true the moment you'll deign to read the OP.
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Mar 5, 2022 00:38
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Failed Imagineer posted:I wish this thread was a No No Fly Zone Zone No, fly zone.
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Mar 5, 2022 00:39
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KillHour posted:It's really hard to match US numbers. 120/100 sounds like it was made up for a sitcom. Burt Gummer is an outlier and should not have been counted.
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Mar 5, 2022 00:39
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Cocaine Bear posted:Rep #7 Now these are the guns I only shoot in Spring time, and these are for Summer shootin, that Mossberg is for Autumn, and these here are for chilly Winter shootin.
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Mar 5, 2022 00:41
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It's passing strange that of all the people who unironically said that it's a moral imperative to punch a nazi, many of the same now say, when faced with a real nazi, we shouldn't. Because they fear getting hurt. Or something.
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Mar 5, 2022 00:41
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KillHour posted:I don't know what else you could possibly think it is. I pointed this out a few pages ago, but 75% of Americans aren't all that stupid. In the 1990's it just meant that USA would occasionally bomb an Iraqi AA system or shoot down a MiG. 75% of Americans think of either that or that it's some new Ben & Jerry's flavour.
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Mar 5, 2022 00:41
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Like, in no small part due to Zelensky's public image and messaging, Germany has completely inverted it's arms export and aid policy. That's success beyond I think anyone expected. As has been said, his peacetime administration wasn't perfect by any measure, but I don't think any nation in crisis could hope to have a better leader than him.
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Mar 5, 2022 00:45
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FishBulbia posted:I'm split. these might literally be people trying to survive by taking stuff. IDK. I think it's a little bit of both, but in the end it doesn't even matter. It's not like these stores will be standing after the Russians have been trough anyway. just take whatever you want.
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Mar 5, 2022 00:46
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Deteriorata, how long until dawn in Kyiv?!  This thread is rough without KitConstantine's twitter posts.
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Mar 5, 2022 00:50
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VorpalBunny posted:Deteriorata, how long until dawn in Kyiv?! Something like four hours I think? Hey, another hate text, cool.
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Mar 5, 2022 00:50
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Vampire Panties posted:Man the CIA/NSA/DoD must be jerking themselves raw with all of this intel. Has any of this poo poo ever been deployed against a parity force before? This is like generation defining information. How they engage, battle plan, the technology, everything. All of Europe scrambling to modernize. Kinda wild to be experiencing something so defining across the world. That fuckin MBS tweet….
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Mar 5, 2022 00:51
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VorpalBunny posted:Deteriorata, how long until dawn in Kyiv?! About 11:15 EST. It's currently 2AM in Kyiv.
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Mar 5, 2022 00:55
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War with Russia? No, fly zone!
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Mar 5, 2022 00:56
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Nothingtoseehere posted:Engaging account of some Journalists almost getting killed by a russian ambush on the outskirts of Kyiv Yeah, the two things that stood out to me most from the video were, first, the sparks from the bullets hitting the metal on the car, but second, the fact that they shouted numerous times "journalist," and there was even a pause in the shooting while they shouted it, but then it began again. That was the part that convinced me it wasn't just someone getting jumpy, it was a real ambush.
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Mar 5, 2022 00:59
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John F Bennett posted:Why is that VDV song so drat catchy. It's been running through my brain all day now. loving right? And the long faced head bopping Colonel Smarm.
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Mar 5, 2022 01:00
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If you donate enough anti-air equipment to the Ukrainian army that will eventually create a no-fly zone.
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Mar 5, 2022 01:00
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Sorry if people are completely sick of the no fly zone stuff, but I don't quite get if it's a completely impossible idea automatically as such by itself, or if it's just that a NATO-mandated no fly zone is the impossible thing (which it obviously is). What would happen if some EU or NATO country decided to implement a no fly zone over Ukraine by itself (after being asked to do so by Ukraine of course)? So no help from EU or NATO, and some kind of explicit promise to Russia that it's not a NATO action, or even an EU action? Could that work? Well, I guess it would still be impossible in practice though, since Russia, being comically untrustworthy itself, also will not trust any such promises as all, and thus would consider it a declaration of war by NATO or some poo poo (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 5, 2022 01:00
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Crows Turn Off posted:War with Russia? Notification of the no fly zone will be handed to Russia on a business card to give them a simple grammatical loophole to exploit rather than ending the world?
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Mar 5, 2022 01:00
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FishBulbia posted:I'm split. these might literally be people trying to survive by taking stuff. IDK. gently caress that. The city is going to be under siege, I am more concerned that people have access to some of the poo poo they need—even if they need to break some glass—than I am about the store owners inventory, which is likely going to get blown up anyway.
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Mar 5, 2022 01:00
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A no-fly zone is a declaration of war. You're declaring you're going to shoot at aircraft and bomb anti-air systems.
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Mar 5, 2022 01:01
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HonorableTB posted:Can we get a ban on posting Russian propaganda? I get that most of the content here is Ukrainian propaganda but there's a difference between propaganda that consists of factual reporting confirmed by outside sources vs the propaganda of an aggressive invader that channel is absolutely anything but Russian propaganda and if you ban propaganda therewill be like 1% of posts left in this thread. Now banning un-marked propaganda, that's a different story.
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Mar 5, 2022 01:01
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Even if NATO did decide to impose a no-fly zone, what good would that do? The consensus is that Russia isn't making much use of its air force anyway, this is a war being fought with land forces.
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Mar 5, 2022 01:02
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Crazyweasel posted:This is like generation defining information. How they engage, battle plan, the technology, everything. All of Europe scrambling to modernize. Kinda wild to be experiencing something so defining across the world. The west better get this right because there's no way Russia doesn't learn from this, improve their tactics and not gently caress it up next time they want to invade someone.
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Mar 5, 2022 01:03
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Alchenar posted:Even if NATO did decide to impose a no-fly zone, what good would that do? The consensus is that Russia isn't making much use of its air force anyway, this is a war being fought with land forces. It would keep them from using helicopters to support ground forces at the very least.
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Mar 5, 2022 01:04
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Alchenar posted:Even if NATO did decide to impose a no-fly zone, what good would that do? The consensus is that Russia isn't making much use of its air force anyway, this is a war being fought with land forces. A no-fly zone is really a "we are enforcing our own air superiority" zone. It would involve wrecking Russia's AA capabilities and free the Ukranian airforce to do whatever they want, basically. That 5 billion mile long convoy would suddenly be a burning streak of charred metal through the countryside. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 5, 2022 01:04
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Alchenar posted:Even if NATO did decide to impose a no-fly zone, what good would that do? The consensus is that Russia isn't making much use of its air force anyway, this is a war being fought with land forces. The lack of air superiority gives those fighting on a ground a huge advantage or at least puts them on a near equal footing. Assad might not be in power if it wasn't for the Russian Air Force.
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Mar 5, 2022 01:04
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I think there's probably a million better ways the west could help Ukraine short of a no fly zone. Like I wonder how many long range artillery systems Ukraine has? It seems those miles long convoys of Russian vehicles would be sitting ducks for artillery barrages but it doesn't seem like that's happening. If Ukraine is short on artillery systems I bet countries like Poland and Romania have plenty of old Soviet guns they could donate.
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Mar 5, 2022 01:05
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FishBulbia posted:I'm split. these might literally be people trying to survive by taking stuff. IDK. Yeah, while I'm sure there is a whole ton of unscrupulous looting by greedy people and criminals... this isn't quite the same thing as a blackout or flood in the United States, where there's a local disaster, but the country as a whole is fine and the wheels of governance continue to spin. If those cities fall to the Russians, which they likely will, those looted goods can serve as good bribes to Russian soldiers to allow families to leave, or for better food, and such. And yeah, if the cities fall, the Russian soldiers will take a lot of the stuff anyway.
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Mar 5, 2022 01:06
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steinrokkan posted:What should we rename The Lebowski The Putin
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Mar 5, 2022 01:06
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Alchenar posted:Even if NATO did decide to impose a no-fly zone, what good would that do? The consensus is that Russia isn't making much use of its air force anyway, this is a war being fought with land forces. It is pretty remarkable that Ukraine is still contesting the airspace over a week in but really feeding intelligence directly to the Ukrainian military to enable them to hit Russian logistics units effectively is arguably more significant at severely limiting the fighting capability of the Russian army at this stage and carries way fewer escalatory risks.
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Mar 5, 2022 01:07
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I think that the debate over an American-led no fly zone sort of misses the reality that NATO is dumping MANPADS into the country as fast as Ukraine can receive them.
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Mar 5, 2022 01:07
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Charliegrs posted:I think there's probably a million better ways the west could help Ukraine short of a no fly zone. Like I wonder how many long range artillery systems Ukraine has? It seems those miles long convoys of Russian vehicles would be sitting ducks for artillery barrages but it doesn't seem like that's happening. If Ukraine is short on artillery systems I bet countries like Poland and Romania have plenty of old Soviet guns they could donate. This is speculation but the fear might be that Russia would respond with counter artillery in roughly the same direction, causing a bunch of collateral damage. The counter to the argument is they're already doing that.
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Mar 5, 2022 01:07
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That was a rhetorical question, I'm saying that it would be going to war with Russia in order to do something almost completely ineffectual with regards to the conflict. Now if you want to say 'we are going to bomb anything we want that's within Ukrainian territory but no land forces and no strikes elsewhere unless you escalate first' that's equally high risk (and not going to happen) but at least poses an escalation dilemma for Russia.
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Mar 5, 2022 01:08
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KillHour posted:A no-fly zone is really a "we are enforcing our own air superiority" zone. It would involve wrecking Russia's AA capabilities and free the Ukranian airforce to do whatever they want, basically. Jesus christ why do you want nuclear war so bad
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Mar 5, 2022 01:08
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Did those Ukrainian pilots allegedly flown to Poland ever come back with new jets? The pro move would be to give them a 2 week crash course in flying F-16s or something so they can get replacement planes and missiles direct from the US. Enable Ukraine to fire modern anti radar missiles and there won't be any need to enforce a NFZ. How long does it take to learn to fly a new type if you've already got quite a bit of experience in other planes?
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Mar 5, 2022 01:08
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https://mobile.twitter.com/WarintheFuture/status/1499891142107693057 An interesting implication here is that the Russians may not have enough troops to fully encircle Kyiv: it'd take 90 of their BTGs to do so, and they may not have that many left. So it would have to be a looser encirclement that still allows supplies to flow in. The numbers I saw was that there were maybe 30-50 BTGs involved in the entire front, some of which will be needed for other operations beyond the city itself. But extrapolating his numbers elsewhere, I don't see how Russia can fight multiple urban battles at once. Which they need to do to take over the country.
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Mar 5, 2022 01:09
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jaete posted:Sorry if people are completely sick of the no fly zone stuff, but I don't quite get if it's a completely impossible idea automatically as such by itself, or if it's just that a NATO-mandated no fly zone is the impossible thing (which it obviously is). It's very simple. Once that country shoots down a Russian plane they are now at war with Russia, and the full implications of being at war with Russia begin to unfold. If that country is a NATO country it will probably be treated by Russia as a NATO attack. It's anyone's guess how Russia would respond, but I would assume they'd at minimum move to nuclear war footing and escalate the conflict. A no-fly zone means you're shooting down opposition aircraft in a particular area. If you don't actually follow up with shooting them down then you're just threatening to use military force, which is still pretty likely to expand the war.
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Mar 5, 2022 01:09
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yaffle posted:If you donate enough anti-air equipment to the Ukrainian army that will eventually create a no-fly zone. Peacetime Zelenskyy will probably mandate that every Ukrainian is required to keep a javelin in the closet and have to certify yearly.
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Mar 5, 2022 01:10
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