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Tell you how loyal your populace is.
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Feb 21, 2022 01:04
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Asproigerosis posted:so what do secret police actually do? If you knew, Comrade, they are no longer secret.
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Feb 21, 2022 01:28
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Sword and shield of the republic.
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Feb 21, 2022 01:45
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Asproigerosis posted:so what do secret police actually do? As far as I can tell, visit peoples homes and ask them how much they support the government. Government support factors into productivity now, I think. There’s also any number of things you can limit to certain thresholds of loyalty, but I haven’t played with the loyalty system enough to know what effects they have. If you don’t have secret police to determine loyalty, it allows anyone to do whatever Thing it is.
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Feb 21, 2022 02:02
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Asproigerosis posted:so what do secret police actually do? 
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Feb 21, 2022 06:48
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Anime Store Adventure posted:As far as I can tell, visit peoples homes and ask them how much they support the government. Government support factors into productivity now, I think. There’s also any number of things you can limit to certain thresholds of loyalty, but I haven’t played with the loyalty system enough to know what effects they have. If you don’t have secret police to determine loyalty, it allows anyone to do whatever Thing it is. Specifically, I think, for workplaces that involve media or teaching, they affect the loyalty of users of the service, so you want an elite core of loyal teachers and media personalities staffing your educational facilities and broadcast centers, in order to pull the loyalty of everyone else up. This is most easily visualized in the media buildings where you will note that early on, you have to devote a lot of time to propaganda to get much of an effect on loyalty, however as you find more loyal people to staff it, the effect of any propaganda you put out will be significantly bigger, so you can start putting other things in the schedule.
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Feb 21, 2022 06:59
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The new city planning tab that is coming soon looks to be really useful. https://www.sovietrepublic.net/post/report-for-the-community-45
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Feb 21, 2022 13:30
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How do I go about extending heating? I have a plant - pump - exchanger set networked, with all functioning properly, but neither the pump nor the exchanger have an input point and neither are getting hot water. E: nvm, small and large don't work together at all. Mandoric fucked around with this message at 20:40 on Feb 22, 2022 |
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Feb 22, 2022 20:37
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This guy has some pretty good videos https://www.youtube.com/c/bballjo
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Feb 22, 2022 20:48
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Pumps don’t have an input or output, think of them more like “repeaters.” Whatever is pumped into them can be extended for another 1000m from one of their connections. Heat is generated at the plant and is “output” from an exchanger. Think of the exchanger as basically abstracting all the local piping. You need to lay the main pipe, but the exchanger lays a whole bunch of hidden small pipe to buildings within 400(?)m of it. Pumps only exist to extend the range of pipes beyond 1000m. For reference, they don’t appear to affect temperature (at least at a meaningful scale) of the water through them - water temp is much more a function of distance from the heating plant. I don’t know exactly how throughput and heating MJs work exactly, so I can’t give too much detail there but it does seem like you can’t really pump two pipes in and two pipes out from the pump. You definitely don’t want to be pumping super far away- as pipes get colder you get a thinner and thinner margin of safety if there’s any dip in temperatures. I *think* the easiest way to balance your system is to add all of the buildings that need heat’s volumes together and subtract that from the heating plant’s volume. If it’s positive, you won’t overwhelm the plant. I assume this is kind of the “worst case” scenario, though. There’s some level of buffer in the system because of water tanks that you may be able to exceed this equation unless it’s absolutely cold as poo poo for a long period of time. That said I don’t know with the new productivity system how much that potentially limits the heating output in joules of a plant. As far as I know there’s nowhere in game to understand what “200MJ heating” means to even a single building versus the ambient temperature or whatever. To be honest, I’m not even 100% sure my tank-size approach is accurate, but it seems to be at least close enough to size whether I need a small, large, or multiple plants for a city. E: also yes, though a large connection can take a small pipe, iirc. You should be able to say, run the large pipe from the plant to a large pump, then run 3 small pipes from the large pump to exchangers.
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Feb 22, 2022 20:52
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Yeah, I got the parts around giving them proper volume of supply but just went "hmm I'm eventually gonna replace this small heating plant with a large one, I'll build large pipes/pumps/exchangers out", and the small plant wouldn't feed into the large system at all.
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Feb 22, 2022 20:55
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Mandoric posted:Yeah, I got the parts around giving them proper volume of supply but just went "hmm I'm eventually gonna replace this small heating plant with a large one, I'll build large pipes/pumps/exchangers out", and the small plant wouldn't feed into the large system at all. You could maybe make a temporary pump that accepts 3 small pipes from the plant and has one large out to the greater system! E: funny enough I am probably going to experiment shortly with a more “extreme” case of a heating plant as I’m about to make a city that should go well over the “tank size” rule I use. I’m interested to see if there’s actually a meaningful stretch beyond that… I mean the large plant has how many pipe outputs? I’m guessing at some point when the temp goes to deep freeze eventually the plant is running at 100% and then buildings start to cool, but if it was slight enough that it didn’t approach dangerous until it had a chance to recover, it should be fine! Anime Store Adventure fucked around with this message at 21:03 on Feb 22, 2022 |
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Feb 22, 2022 20:57
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I have just been looking at heating plant output and when red bar get full build new heating plant.
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Feb 22, 2022 21:02
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OwlFancier posted:I have just been looking at heating plant output and when red bar get full build new heating plant. I mean ultimately I guess this is what I’m doing in the end too, I’m just trying to have some sort of way with the numbers given to me to estimate if the town I’ve laid out will fill the red bar or not. It does seem like once you start getting to more than 4 large heat exchangers to one large plant (which is as close as you can get tank-size wise) you’re already stretching distance and probably want another plant based on that alone.
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Feb 22, 2022 21:07
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Yeah I think I usually only use two heat exchangers (running two pipes into each) on each plant, plus as many single segment connectors as I can manage. After that point I just build another plant on the other side of the city, saves faff with running the pipes.
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Feb 22, 2022 21:10
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Yeah I mean coal is usually something you produce very early and unless you’re penny pinching around buying or using steel, there’s not much reason to avoid placing another plant if you’re getting anywhere near needing it, and if you are, you definitely have the workforce to spare 20 people and a few trucks/busses. That said, I always want to strive for maximum efficiency!
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Feb 22, 2022 21:21
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Do the plants use the same amount of coal regardless of actual demand? I assumed it throttled down if it wasn't using the water, as they do turn off in summer. You have to pay for the plant to be sure, but you're also presumably mitigating losses due to distance.
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Feb 22, 2022 21:41
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OwlFancier posted:Do the plants use the same amount of coal regardless of actual demand? I assumed it throttled down if it wasn't using the water, as they do turn off in summer. No it’s definitely variable. I don’t know that there’s any “distance heated vs coal” function. I think it heats the water to 90C according to demand and sends that water out. It might only arrive at 60C, but it doesn’t request any more heated water since it’ll still arrive at 60C, if that makes sense. It only heats in proportion to what’s needed, even if distance reduces that - I think. I don’t know what happens in some weird edge cases though.
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Feb 22, 2022 21:50
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Huh, I thought that it would always heat to max, but the further away you were, the slower it would do that.
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Feb 22, 2022 21:57
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OwlFancier posted:Huh, I thought that it would always heat to max, but the further away you were, the slower it would do that. As far as I can tell, no. There’s not really any downside to it being lower, though, since it seems like until you get to like the high 40s (iirc) does it start to get close to an issue. And even then I think the issue is more that if there’s any blip in the system you can lose the actual building heat at a safe level much faster and gain it back slower. I try to avoid that, though. I want all my citizens to have hot showers and I’ve got to imagine there’s some loss from the main to the shower head. *Caveat being I have no idea if these central heating systems are also used for hot water or if they further boosted the heat with a local boiler (but let the central plant do most of the work.)
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Feb 22, 2022 22:37
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It tries to heat to the max, but the theoretical max gets lower the further it goes. The heating plant does absolutely throttle down on coal consumption, the game assumes a perfect conversion of coal to energy, and both a lossless process and a perfectly insulated tank. I think.
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Feb 22, 2022 23:18
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Volmarias posted:It tries to heat to the max, but the theoretical max gets lower the further it goes. This was a much smarter and succinct way to explain my understanding also.
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Feb 23, 2022 08:55
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Sorry I kind of garbled my idea. My understanding was that the heat pipes are basically a sort of "heat charger" for the hot water tank in a building, and the further from the plant you get, the more difference there is between the rate output at the plant, and the rate received at the destination. So all tanks will heat to max under normal weather conditions but if they are too far away, the rate of loss caused by lower ambient temperatures (which determines the rate of loss) will overcome the rate of gain and the building will get too cold. Not sure if combining multiple pipes into one will help with that, I sometimes run two large pipes into a repeater and then one out, which I assume helps to make sure that one pipe has better heat but I don't know as the game doesn't give you precise throughput indicators.
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Feb 23, 2022 08:59
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OwlFancier posted:Sorry I kind of garbled my idea. I know this isn’t how it works at least unless they majorly changed the way it works since I tested it. I don’t think they have. I tested it in sandbox like this: I built a plant and every 250 meters in one direction put a pump, then connected the pumps to each other in a daisy chain out to a kilometer. At a kilometer, I connected the chain to an exchanger. In the opposite direction I ran a single pipe out to an exchanger one kilometer away. If I recall, the temperatures were functionally the same. Running it through a pump did actually reduce the temperature slightly, but not dramatically. The largest variable by an order of magnitude was range. If you pump water 1km away, you lose some amount of max possible temp and while pumps may (or may not) affect this today, but it’s negligible in any realistic situation. (Funny enough, I did this test pre-buried pipe patch or mod, and I wanted to test if using the heating pipe road overpass was actually killing my towns heat because it ran through like 6-8 of them on the way to the exchanger. If I recall it didn’t help, but it wasn’t the major factor.) I don’t think there’s any way to beat range, because everything tells me that’s a hard limit, but I’m not sure. The only edge cases I can think of are things like having a small heating plant locally, but a larger heating plant further out, and combining the inputs of both using a pump. I’m not sure if it has too much real utility, but it might let you get creative if you had an absolutely massive city and didn’t want to put the big plants near houses for pollution and put them on the edge of town as a low level “charge” for local plants. I should experiment again in a more controlled way but I don’t think multiple inputs does anything at all, unless you do multiple small pipes into a large pipe, or vice versa. Honestly it’s weird, I enjoy the heat system as an idea and the challenge it poses but they really need to explain the numbers and behaviors better because if you try much other than “put too big of a plant pretty close to your houses” it gets really wonky to understand really fast.
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Feb 23, 2022 09:16
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It would admittedly make more sense if greater distance reduced the maximum water temperature, as you can not, in real life, add two liters of 60C water together to get 1 liter of 120C water.
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Feb 23, 2022 18:05
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How do passengers work? I have a small city with two big bus stations within a housing 'core' and I decided hey maybe they'll like to go back and forth or whatever so I opened up the stations to passengers and set a line. So I get hundreds of passengers to just go back and forth... but I don't know what they are even doing because it just seems like their only purpose is to stand at the station. So where are 'passengers' trying to go? My goal was to ultimately make a downtown needs center where I'd just bus people too that are too out of range to walk but apparently that doesn't work and people are morons that just spend their free time at the station and never get their needs met. Would have liked to not have to make cookie cutter school/shop/entertainment for every block of homes. Asproigerosis fucked around with this message at 14:15 on Feb 24, 2022 |
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Feb 24, 2022 13:51
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Asproigerosis posted:How do passengers work? I have a small city with two big bus stations within a housing 'core' and I decided hey maybe they'll like to go back and forth or whatever so I opened up the stations to passengers and set a line. So I get hundreds of passengers to just go back and forth... but I don't know what they are even doing because it just seems like their only purpose is to stand at the station. So where are 'passengers' trying to go? Passengers are generated when citizens are on their free time where they look to fulfill shopping, sports, culture, etc. Passengers will only disembark if they find their needs at the stop. I feel like they may not even board a line that doesn’t, at some stop, provide the need they’re looking to fulfill. (I have a line to ferry a small neighborhood to my services and it seems like everyone looking for ‘prayer’ just times out standing at the station.) I’d check the people who are standing around and not appearing to get on a bus (for example, check some passenger’s wants right after a bus with empty space leaves the platform they were standing at) to see why they’re standing there, it might give you some insight into what’s missing. The whole “I can’t find a church so I’m going to time out at the station” can create problems and is an extremely weird way to handle the situation, but given the way they’ve formulated supply and demand I suppose it’s the least problematic approach. Also as a heads up I think the only “service” or education you absolutely must provide locally are kindergartens. I don’t believe you can centralize those, but I might be wrong.
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Feb 24, 2022 16:08
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Anime Store Adventure posted:Passengers are generated when citizens are on their free time where they look to fulfill shopping, sports, culture, etc. No, frustratingly, I don't think you can bus infants into the city.
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Feb 25, 2022 03:58
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Volmarias posted:No, frustratingly, I don't think you can bus infants into the city. The infants are filthy capitalists. I’d be interested - not as a big critique or anything, just curious - to understand how the land usage breaks down in the game versus a real city (or a Soviet city, if we can get that level of data.) My current town uses a hell of a lot of room for education in general compared to shops and pubs and things. Government buildings seem heavy too, but to be fair, smaller cities in Workers kind of get extra “overhead” with some of that, considering even the smallest courthouse and police station I have are too much for the city. The thought comes to me because it seems like I have to have 4x the land for kindergartens, then we pack them in like sardines for primary school, and then skip high school for hybrid secondary school/university where land usage gets huge again but is also combined with high rises.
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Feb 25, 2022 04:42
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The numbers are all kinds of made up and all over the place, I have to assume that actual housing usage is even larger in reality, but that shops, offices, and government facilities (school, health, police, etc) can have smaller options (minute clinics, local doctors) rather than "HOSPITAL OR NOTHING, PERISH REACTIONARIES" without using mods.
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Feb 25, 2022 04:48
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Yeah, mod options for education and government and media buildings are suuuuuuper useful because having only one size of each available in vanilla is incredibly frustrating. Sometimes it's nice to be able to have a smaller city hall or a bigger but much 'denser' kindergarten.
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Feb 25, 2022 10:10
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So my last city in this same spot turned out to be an abject disaster. I tried to 'break out' from what I knew worked and ended up with a horribly broken city. I ended up redoing it (on a new save) more traditionally, but with similar influences. I'm not quite ready to show the whole thing off, but I did get the center square with the secret police, Communism Headquarters (university), courthouse, theatre, and city hall all done up nice. You can use these workshop assets to make super beautiful squares and parks, but by god you shouldn't.      This took so drat long. I'm happy with the results, at the very least.
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Feb 26, 2022 03:27
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wanna thank our very own Anime Store Adventure for gifting me a copy of this game. I've spent several hours after playing the ingame tutorials trying to build some towns. A Tutorial LP I watched basically consisted of guy building everything he needed while he was paused. How much "city" do I need before letting things start on their own? Im not sure if its like Simcity 4 where you start within your means and slowly build things for your population, or if people just straight up starve if I dont buil them grocery stores. Ill also take any suggestions for LP's/tutorials that are a bit more friendly for new people. What I found was either a mixture of bad narration or outdatedness.
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Mar 5, 2022 06:42
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People straight up starve. Do make sure there's a grocery store at least, and auto buy food The nice thing about the game is that, until you can produce things yourself, you can auto import, and even auto build. The frustrating thing is that for some buildings, there's no in between; you either buy a whole rear end hospital, or your people die from lack of healthcare and pollution. You'll want to import all of your goods in the beginning, import power, build a grocery store and clothing store (you can skip meat and electronics, for now, but you will want them later). If you aren't playing with things like education etc on easy (read: off) you'll need a variety of ancillary things. Kindergartens at first, then schools, then a university once you can afford it. Heating can usually wait until the season changes if you have seasons on. I recommend turning fires from "frequent" to normal, they're just spammy and annoying at a certain point. Eventually, the goal is that you can build and produce everything yourself, but for now, auto import resources for building at the relevant buildings; you want to get gravel going as soon as possible, and have your own workers build, since those are usually the two biggest costs (and importing gravel is ruinously expensive because you pay by the kilometer-ton for everything). For actual currency inflow, Oil exports are pretty good and can run by themselves in the beginning; they don't require workers and neither does the transportation. You'll gently caress up the first few games, but that's alright, the game has an extremely steep learning curve but once you understand it, it becomes much more reasonable.
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Mar 5, 2022 08:40
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You can also manually import by sending the proper vehicle to a customs post. Fiddly, but more realistic, saves a bunch of money on shipping, and most importantly lets you transition super-easily from 'truck fetches at the border and brings to a depot' to 'truck fetches from the factory and brings to a depot' when you do get local production online.
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Mar 5, 2022 10:30
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Volmarias posted:No, frustratingly, I don't think you can bus infants into the city. Infants, of course, should count as aggregate.
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Mar 5, 2022 13:22
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OwlFancier posted:Infants, of course, should count as aggregate. Disappointing that I cannot load them like gravel via a conveyor belt.
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Mar 5, 2022 20:18
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Even though you probably don’t want the challenge, it might actually be useful to understand what the “cosmonaut” start is. There’s a steam guide for it. That style of start kind of shows you the absolute, bare minimum you have to auto build. Generally, I auto build a small town of about a 1500-ish pop. This includes education - kindergartens, schools, university. It includes shops, but I don’t autobuy electronics, just clothes, food, and meat. It has culture, it has sports, it has a pub. I give it a single bus stop in the center so that any excess workforce goes right there. After that town, there’s sort of a logical build order based on the ease of getting something running and need. As Volmarias mentioned, gravel is probably the first and easiest. Gravel uses two mines that do not need workforce, just excavators - that’s not well communicated, but they’ll fill dump trucks that can unload at a gravel processor and that produces gravel. Definitely make an aggregate truck loader after your gravel storage. Gravel is also a very useful first thing because several other construction goods use it and every construction uses gravel directly in large amounts, so you’ll save a ton on delivery of tons and tons of it. After that I usually set up a concrete plant and an asphalt plant, either autobuying or importing Bitumen and cement. Buildings almost always use both of these and you’ll save money by only importing the bitumen and cement. Once you have that, it’s a bit dependent on what resources you have nearby and what you’d like to do. I prefer to set up coal, which you need for heat, (probably) power, bricks, and cement. You need shitloads of bricks for a lot of buildings, so self producing those from the ground is a huge savings and you can stop paying for the constant heat and power costs in currency. You can also move into food and alcohol very easily. Both only need crops. This takes a lot of open land, and while valuable to export, requires a ton of grain storage if you want to actually export it. (You could import grain just to support the industry.) Meat is also easy after that, then you’re supporting your citizens pretty well on your own feet. The biggest issue getting into these other industries will quickly become apparent and reveals the two key “now we’re doing real independent communism” industries: Steel and Fuel. You can save on fuel by using trains, but they’re expensive to buy, and boy do those tracks use a lot of steel. You can save on steel for trains, but you’ll use a lot of fuel for trucks and busses. Fuel is expensive to import. As you expand you need either/both trucks and trains in increasing numbers. I like to get fuel going early - it’s a very easy chain since it’s just oil to fuel and bitumen and that also solves your asphalt chain as well. Fuel and bitumen exports can support you easily while you get the rest of your good self produced. (Just a heads up, a refinery can use up to 36 wells of oil!) Steel is the real crown jewel, and should probably come “last” before you get into advanced industry.
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Mar 6, 2022 07:25
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I generally get a refinery running before I set up steel. A steel plant requires an enormous, steady supply of iron and coal, which means mines of each, plus the smelting infrastructure for each (sufficient to match the demand), plus the many conveyors involved, to say nothing of transport if you're not placing the mill near them. Then there's issues of staffing the mines, refineries, ancillary industry that branches off the coal so that you can supply other things like panels and bricks that will be used in fits and spurts, the storage space for the raw ore, refined ore, etc (and the relatively tiny output storage for steel!). And, this all needs to be planned out. Meanwhile, the oil refinery is "many oil pumps in an oil field get sent through pipelines to 3-to-1 forwarding pumps, which eventually end in an optional buffer tank adjacent to the refinery" for inputs, "buffer tanks, flow pumps, and truck / train loading outputs for fuel and bitumen" for outputs, and you only need to worry about staffing the refinery itself. Everything else goes on automatic without additional oversight. You can definitely simplify the steel mill process, but at the point that you're making it there's little reason to just plop it somewhere and truck in resources unless you really, really need to and you're not particularly close up a border (in which case, why are you trucking in raw resources instead of just the steel that you need?) Refinery step best step, as it also allows for a less ruinously expensive helicopter construction infrastructure. Only by means of energy efficiently stored in hydrocarbons can we create a giant concrete
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Mar 6, 2022 09:17
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TRYING to play Cosmonaut, but not being afraid to plop x thing you forgot or call on Uncle Joe to snap things like replacement power infrastructure into existence during an upgrade due to how painfully duplicative switchovers are, is honestly a great way to learn. Really rubs in that your primarily limiting factor is days of fed, housed, and transported labor. It's also useful to flowchart what leads to what. Ignoring services like police, secret police, and higher education, and advanced industry, it's roughly: 
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Mar 6, 2022 10:04
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