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Disappointing lack of a flared base. E: 20 is the amount of aeons my soul will be flayed for this shameful snipe.
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Mar 6, 2022 01:19
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The perfect page starter
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Mar 6, 2022 02:37
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https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/mar/05/light-or-blight-anger-rises-at-plan-for-britains-biggest-solar-farm The deputy council leader. Richard Rout posted:We must put the planet first - its future really is hanging by a thread Richard Rout posted:We recognise that renewable energy is a key part of delivering energy security but it can’t come at any cost or to the detriment of Suffolk or the environment. Local campaigners. Campaigners posted:Campaigners say the Sunnica energy farm, which will span several villages in Suffolk and Cambridgeshire, will change the unique character of a vast area of countryside shaped by farming and horseracing. https://www.saynotosunnica.com/ posted:The Say No to Sunnica action group is not against solar, we are not 'NIMBY's' (Not in My Back Yard) but do not agree with losing our entire back yard to a scheme that is simply too large and too intrusive.
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Mar 6, 2022 08:16
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That's very strong "Not a racist but..." energy
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Mar 6, 2022 10:00
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Marmaduke! posted:That's very strong "Not a racist but..." energy I'm not sure how completely oblivious you have to be to literally say "We're not NIMBYs, but not in our back yard", but they somehow managed it.
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Mar 6, 2022 10:11
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Massive agricultural use change before I was born: probably always there Massive agricultural use change during my youth: exciting Massive agricultural use change after I have become sessile: terrible
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Mar 6, 2022 10:22
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What kind of loving idiot tries to build large-scale solar on an island notable for a) being closer to the arctic circle than the equator, so the sun only gets above 45 degrees for a few hours even in summer and only being above the horizon for less than 8 hours in winter, when electric demand is highest, and b) having total overcast almost 50% of the time? This has to be some sort of grab for subsidies or a Producers-style "Can't possibly make a profit" investor scam. e: Met Office says East Anglia gets 57 hours of sunshine in January. *Has* to be a scam, there's literally no way they can make money on this. goddamnedtwisto fucked around with this message at 10:31 on Mar 6, 2022 |
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Mar 6, 2022 10:23
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goddamnedtwisto posted:What kind of loving idiot tries to build large-scale solar on an island notable for a) being closer to the arctic circle than the equator, so the sun only gets above 45 degrees for a few hours even in summer and only being above the horizon for less than 8 hours in winter, when electric demand is highest, and b) having total overcast almost 50% of the time? I’m all for sustainable energy but yes, I wouldn’t have thought that the UK was ideal for large-scale solar
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Mar 6, 2022 10:32
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Solar works just fine in the UK. It runs off light, not heat and actually gets less efficient in higher temperatures. I don't know how big of a deal overcast weather is - i assume it can't be ideal but it's made up at least somewhat by preventing them getting too hot e: there's an insane amount of energy still in overcast daylight. Imagine the light setup you would need to use to light a football stadium with artificial light in a way that looks like an overcast day jiggerypokery fucked around with this message at 10:35 on Mar 6, 2022 |
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Mar 6, 2022 10:33
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My only arguement would be that solar probably makes more sense as roof installations rather than giving over dedicated land. Solar right now is achieving 7% of our electricity generation.
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Mar 6, 2022 10:36
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Yeah modern PV panels are fine in indirect light, it's solar thermal that wouldn't work at all in the UK. If we take the residents' concerns at face value though, the best option would be small modular reactors and rewilding the surrounding buffer land.
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Mar 6, 2022 10:37
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It's almost certainly also a scam, to be fair
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Mar 6, 2022 10:49
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jiggerypokery posted:Solar works just fine in the UK. It runs off light, not heat and actually gets less efficient in higher temperatures. I don't know how big of a deal overcast weather is - i assume it can't be ideal but it's made up at least somewhat by preventing them getting too hot I'm aware of that, but no matter how good the panels are, they can't generate anything if the sun's literally below the horizon like it is for >70% of the time in winter this far from the equator. It also suffers from the same winter high problem as wind - the coldest days (and hence highest demand for electricity) in the British Isles are when a high pressure system stalls over us resulting in extremely thick overcast and absolutely no wind, a situation that can last for up to a week. There's no advantage in going for PV solar over wind power *anywhere* in the British Isles because the only locations that do get higher-than-average clear or partial-overcast days (basically the east coast and the south-west peninsula) also get extremely reliable winds (and like I say, days they don't tend to be either in summer, when demand is much lower, or in a winter high, when PV is massively less efficient). We need to be working on decarbonising the power sources we need to fill in those gaps, with nuclear, hydroelectric, and geothermal where appropriate (pretty much Cornwall and bits of Northumbria and Scotland), and massively improving grid storage (pumped hydro and other gravity storage, not massive banks of lithium batteries, gently caress off out of here Tesla).
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Mar 6, 2022 10:57
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We have a lot of wind and a lot of sea so surely all renewables investment should purely focus on turbines and tidal generation? Solar seems inefficient here, like is it even worthwhile getting domestic solar panels installed if the government aren't subsidising/paying the cost?
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Mar 6, 2022 11:16
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Just to give you an idea of what’s coming down the line - a tank of heating oil here in NI that cost us 250 last year cost us 440 last week and has now gone up to 630
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Mar 6, 2022 11:19
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Jedit posted:I'm not sure how completely oblivious you have to be to literally say "We're not NIMBYs, but not in our back yard", but they somehow managed it. The contrast is even better given they spell out the acronym "We're not NIMBYs (Not In My Back Yard), but not in our back yard"
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Mar 6, 2022 11:21
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keep punching joe posted:We have a lot of wind and a lot of sea so surely all renewables investment should purely focus on turbines and tidal generation? Solar seems inefficient here, like is it even worthwhile getting domestic solar panels installed if the government aren't subsidising/paying the cost? Not until recently but the calculation might have changed now that energy prices are fully insane.
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Mar 6, 2022 11:26
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Tidal seems to be permanently beset by problems. There's a hub off Cornwall that they've been trying to hook stuff to for a decade and it's still not generating anything afaik.
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Mar 6, 2022 11:29
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Lungboy posted:Tidal seems to be permanently beset by problems. There's a hub off Cornwall that they've been trying to hook stuff to for a decade and it's still not generating anything afaik. It's not without irony that two of the most productive environments for energy production — the sea and the deserts — are some of the most difficult environments to build long-lasting infrastructure. The sea especially is a very hard place to build moving things that need to be mechanically robust.
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Mar 6, 2022 11:45
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Where’s the Manhattan Project for renewables?
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Mar 6, 2022 11:51
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Lungboy posted:Tidal seems to be permanently beset by problems. There's a hub off Cornwall that they've been trying to hook stuff to for a decade and it's still not generating anything afaik. Large-scale tidal is probably dead. I mean you can understand the appeal when you're looking at millions of tons of water moving at speed in a completely predictable way but once you actually try and extract that energy you end up with everything covered in barnacles and also massive environmental impact (including silting up of the barrages) because you're loving up those flows. Wave power *might* be more practical, especially the schemes that keep the actual generating kit out of the water (the combination tidal-defence schemes, that use a reinforced concrete box with a wind turbine mounted horizontally in the top that gets moved by the air movement caused by waves coming in and out, are particularly efficient and easy to maintain), but you quickly run into the same problem of them being reliant on wind.
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Mar 6, 2022 11:52
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Tidal power is basically lunar power
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Mar 6, 2022 12:04
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keep punching joe posted:We have a lot of wind and a lot of sea so surely all renewables investment should purely focus on turbines and tidal generation? Solar seems inefficient here, like is it even worthwhile getting domestic solar panels installed if the government aren't subsidising/paying the cost? My parents have them and say it was an insanely good investment, and they have gotten much better since. They charge their hybrid car with it, can literally drive for free. It runs things like dishwasher, washing machine, electric oven, anything like that they can choose to run during the day. It charges batteries, I don't know how much they run off them, but they work at night too. They turned to profit just selling excess back to the grid after 10 years or something, but the savings on fuel and other stuff must have added up way before that
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Mar 6, 2022 12:14
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jiggerypokery posted:I don't know how much they run off them, but they work at night too.  Even a full moon gives considerably less than 1 lux of illumination, you'd need a football pitch of PV panels to even charge a phone. In practice internal resistance means PV panels just don't produce any power at all at such low levels.
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Mar 6, 2022 12:22
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They charge the batteries during the day, and the batteries last for some stuff during the night. Not the panels
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Mar 6, 2022 12:31
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jiggerypokery posted:My parents have them and say it was an insanely good investment, and they have gotten much better since. Friend of mine is the same. He was showing me the stats last week and he was generating 6kw of power per hour during the day from his panels which was going to his batteries and his car. They are going for days not drawing anything from the grid
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Mar 6, 2022 12:43
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goddamnedtwisto posted:
You've staked a big claim here on "PV panels don't work in Northern Europe" but this reply is pretty thin, bordering on the obtuse
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Mar 6, 2022 13:03
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I'm in Australia now but trying to persuade my mum to install panels in Yorkshire. My solar array here with a battery (in one of the less sunny parts of Australia) could power probably 4 or 5 houses and I've forgotten what a power bill is. Would produce less in the UK but still significant.
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Mar 6, 2022 13:08
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I'd have thought that solar plants would be a good idea even if not economical because eggs/baskets The problem with renewables is consistency & storage, & sunny-but-still days exist, so having some solar as well as wind should reduce our dependency on fossils, no?
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Mar 6, 2022 13:21
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Failed Imagineer posted:You've staked a big claim here on "PV panels don't work in Northern Europe" but this reply is pretty thin, bordering on the obtuse They extremely sloppily phrased their post, making the apparent claim their parents solar panels worked at night, and then clarified it. Also I've not claimed they *don't* work, just the work they do is pointless because their highest output almost by definition comes at the times when demand is lowest and vice versa, and as we have a finite amount of space and resources to devote to decarbonising the economy that *large scale* projects should concentrate on power sources that work much better in our conditions and in ways of filling in the gaps left by those conditions. If someone wants to install PV on their roof and it works for them fair play to them. It's still no more of a solution to the energy problems of the country as a whole than a rain butt is a solution to drought.
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Mar 6, 2022 13:21
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You know black coffee and Southern Comfort go well together. And I am surprised the west coast of Ireland isnt covered in wind turbines, there are places where the trees point in the same horizontal direction due to the near constant wind. happyhippy fucked around with this message at 13:43 on Mar 6, 2022 |
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Mar 6, 2022 13:25
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Borrovan posted:I'd have thought that solar plants would be a good idea even if not economical because eggs/baskets It'd be better to expend money and energy on things that are either completely consistent (nukes, geothermal) or inconsistent but on an opposite cycle to wind (hydro), and most of all on grid-scale storage (pumped hydro, etc). Like we *could* replace every single road vehicle in the country with hybrids and BEVs and make a massive dent in our carbon emissions, but that money would be much, much better spent on electric trains and buses for a much bigger drop in both direct emissions and also the emissions involved in creating the vehicles.
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Mar 6, 2022 13:32
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happyhippy posted:And I am surprised the east coast of Ireland isnt covered in wind turbines, there are places where the trees point in the same horizontal direction due to the near constant wind.
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Mar 6, 2022 13:32
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It's literally free power that falls from the sky, you're leaving money on the table to spite the hippies
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Mar 6, 2022 13:42
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It's raining solar panels now?
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Mar 6, 2022 13:50
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goddamnedtwisto posted:There's no advantage in going for PV solar over wind power *anywhere* in the British Isles because the only locations that do get higher-than-average clear or partial-overcast days (basically the east coast and the south-west peninsula) also get extremely reliable winds (and like I say, days they don't tend to be either in summer, when demand is much lower, or in a winter high, when PV is massively less efficient). This is ignoring that there are huge parts of the UK that cannot host wind turbines, for a variety of reasons (too close to houses, too close to airfields, etc). Solar is an alternative in those areas, even if it isn’t as efficient as in other areas of the world, because the alternative in those places is nothing.
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Mar 6, 2022 13:58
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I'd love solar panels but I'm put off by both the upfront cost and my neighbour's complete inability to control their leylandii. Apparently one of the previous residents on the street used to wait until they'd gone on holiday and take a chainsaw to the trees. The Surrey solar farms seems weird but as far as domestic use goes, it's the only renewable source available. I would love to see as many houses as possible get solar panels, because we're only getting more dependent on electricity. Especialy as summers get hotter, in a couple of years we're going to start seeing more demand for domestic air conditioning.
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Mar 6, 2022 14:06
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There's a few fields full of solar panels just off the A171 south of boro, been there quite a while though you can barely see them cos the road has trees on the side and there's no other roads or houses on the other side. Noticed them a few times when you drive past in winter you can see snippets of the through the trees. Dunno how much they generate but they're quite big, probably a couple of square miles of them I would guess. E: looking it up apparently they generate about 5MW Which is "enough to power 1300 homes" but were proposed shortly after they were going to build five wind turbines (presumably on the ridgeline northeast of roseberry topping, which is just scrubland at the moment) and those would have "powered 10000 homes" but they were blocked because of MUH HOUSE PRICES lmao. https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/plans-guisborough-solar-farm-could-8953463 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-26047106 E: wait no apparently they were literally going to put the turbines where the solar panels are now, on the other side of the bypass road from the town, which makes sense cos you'd probably get shadow flicker if you put them on the ridgeline. https://www.banksgroup.co.uk/2013/07/25/proposed-guisborough-wind-farm-plans-updated/ Maybe they were going to be a bit further north? Ther's a wide sort of shallow valley on that side of the road that leads up to a hill, you can barely see it from anywhere as far as I know cos of how the land slopes. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 14:29 on Mar 6, 2022 |
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Mar 6, 2022 14:13
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Trees grow in the UK, we could just use them for solar power and burn them
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Mar 6, 2022 14:19
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Consider the following: a huge dish that catches rainwater and funnels it into a turbine what could go wrong
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