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Really like how Elida is basically "now make sure you don't break her, I want to savor her fall, bwahahaha!" While her keeper is like "well, actually..." Then stops when she realizes she's not listening. Meanwhile, The novices are out preparing her meals for her and calling her mother, accepted are going to her for advice and comfort, and even Aes Sedai are starting to ignore her refusal to give them the courtesies.
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Mar 4, 2022 21:32
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Nitrousoxide posted:Really like how Elida is basically "now make sure you don't break her, I want to savor her fall, bwahahaha!" While her keeper is like "well, actually..." Then stops when she realizes she's not listening. Elaida really is the Trump school of leadership. Doesn't even register to her that she might be stupid and clueless. She is the Protagagonist of Reality and you are lucky to be in her presence. Why check to see how your plan is going? It's going fine, it's your plan, a perfect one from the beginning!
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Mar 4, 2022 22:49
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I forgot Juilin was banging Amathera  No monarch left behind 
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Mar 5, 2022 00:51
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Re: Samitsu, Sumeko and Nynaeve Samitsu is probably the best healer in the world at the Aes Sedai standard version of healing, aka Age of Legends battlefield healing. She's really good at it and has spent basically forever mastering it. She's probably better than Nynaeve at specifically that version of healing. The healing that Sumeko and Nynaeve do is fundamentally different to regular Aes Sedai healing and they're both unbelievably talented at it. It's also a much more effective version of healing as well. Basically the the only person they'd be arguably second to in that would be Semirhage. Natural 20 fucked around with this message at 02:32 on Mar 5, 2022 |
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Mar 5, 2022 02:01
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IIRC, Flinn is right up there with Samitsu/Nynaeve/Sumeko, too.
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Mar 5, 2022 02:32
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Khizan posted:IIRC, Flinn is right up there with Samitsu/Nynaeve/Sumeko, too. Definitely. Not an Aes Sedai though, technically. They both independently figured out how to heal stilling, so that alone should have them be considered the finest healers of the Age.
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Mar 5, 2022 06:10
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I just knew there was more than one and also the talent vs. Talent distinction And lmao at the ones who thought they were the bestest because Cadsuane said so
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Mar 5, 2022 13:30
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Hexel posted:I just knew there was more than one and also the talent vs. Talent distinction She even thinks to herself that she knows she's just stoking Samitsu's ego to get her to take ahold of herself, if I recall a later chapter right.
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Mar 5, 2022 13:54
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A thought I had on Galina, since she showed up again in KoD: it seems clear that RJ is using her to test the reader's limits on what constitutes acceptable revenge. We're meant to hate her, she put our boy in a box and beat him, and is Black Ajah to boot. We probably all felt satisfaction when she first got snapped up by the Shaido. But the increasingly brutal treatment Therava inflicts on her feels like RJ using the reader as a vessel to ask: at what point does the punishment outweigh the crime, however heinous?
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Mar 5, 2022 23:14
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I'm listening through Fires of Heaven again and noticed that after Nynaeve and Elayne escape Ronde Macura they use forkroot to dose her and her apprentice, and then later on forkroot only affects channelers. What the heck, RJ. Fix this glaring oversight!
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Mar 6, 2022 00:32
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Pleads posted:I'm listening through Fires of Heaven again and noticed that after Nynaeve and Elayne escape Ronde Macura they use forkroot to dose her and her apprentice, and then later on forkroot only affects channelers. When does forkroot not make a non-channeler sleepy?
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Mar 6, 2022 01:55
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Jedit posted:When does forkroot not make a non-channeler sleepy? I think it does make non-channelers sleepy, just much less effectively and only at much higher doses even then.
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Mar 6, 2022 02:18
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Pulling up old stuff to respond to again (I'm pretty much caught up with this thread-history now...)th3t00t posted:Bunch of disjointed thoughts below. Apologies This right here was a major gripe of mine in the finale....they find the MacGuffin and it's like "oh they found a MacGuffin and the bad guy took it I guess...what else is going on?" In comparison, I distinctly remember reading the analogous scene in the books when I read it for the first time in 1991 when I was 15 because it was that memorable. "They found the Horn of VALERE?!  "And it felt like that because you said they mentioned the horn...what, "like 100 times by the time they even made it to Shadar Logoth? So I did some text searches in The Eye of the World. In 800 pages, the word "Valere" appears 5 times (one of which when they actually found it), and the phrase "Great Hunt" appears 6 times, 4 of which are in chapter 26, when we learn that Illian has called up a new Great Hunt and we get the most background on what it is. I really think the show could have given finding the Horn a similar emotional weight by mentioning 2-3 times during the season. I could even suggest a few brief seconds of dialog in existing scenes: When the Grinwell girl offers Mat her Birgitte doll: "I can't take your doll. Birgitte will need you to help her find the Horn of Valere and save the world." When Maigan is info-dumping world events on Moiraine in the bathroom: "...And in Illian, they've called for a Great Hunt for the Horn, so all the fools and would-be heroes in the world are caught up in the dream of finding the Horn of Valere and blowing it to summon the Heroes of the Ages to fight the Last Battle. You can imagine the chaos." You don't need much to really build this kind of detail into the world, and the Horn is one example of the show kind of dropping the ball on that. The Heron-marked sword is another. The only time anybody even mentions it is in the last episode when Ishamael asks him where he got one of those, without explaining what it signifies. Before that, I'm not sure how anybody's supposed to guess that it even is significant beyond just "Tam's sword has this mark on it! Look, see he had the same sword at the Blood Snow". How much set-up for season 2 stuff could they have built into a scene where Rand and Mat run into some whitecloaks from Geofram Bornhad's crew on the road to Tar Valon (now separated from Valda), and one of them notices and goes "Heron-mark, be careful men" and they just back off after taking a look at it. Especially if they'd included a short bit of explanation with Lan in episode 2 of what it takes to earn a heron-mark sword, and how much training Rand's going to have to do to be worthy of it. quote:They were upset the book prologue was cut. They liked that it started to explain what's at stake, as the show hasn't really attempted to explain the stakes at all and is a major weakness. I think the biggest problem with the adaptation, and also with comparisons to Game of Thrones, comes down to the structure of the story. Wheel of Time as a whole seems like it would inspire a great TV series adaptation in the same way A Song of Ice and Fire did (at least for the early seasons), because it's got a huge ensemble cast of memorable characters inhabiting a well-developed and richly detailed imaginary world. However, unlike Game of Thrones (the book) Eye of the World is very conspicuously NOT that. It's got the richly imagined world, but the story is ALL about Rand, and the rest of the cast is just there to support him and his adventure tale. That's kind of incompatible with how they need to cast (and pay for the cast) for a show like this if they're serious about getting past the first season. They really did need to tear the story apart and put it back together to make room for the rest of the ensemble to shine as much as Rand for this season, and I understand why they made choices they did in this context, but I think they went too far in basically cutting out ALL of Rand's story and character development to make room for the remaining cast. If they were able to make the "Who is the Dragon" mystery pay off better it might have worked, but they really didn't. When they finally made the reveal it wasn't "oh, this is how all the clues from the rest of the season piece together" it was "yeah, we just didn't show you this massively character-founding scene in episode 1 that was supposed to inform basically everything Rand did or thought about for the whole season until now." And they don't just drop that scene, they almost completely erased the constant struggle with his identity and wondering who his father is. The only scene of his that even touches on it is when Loial calls Rand an Aielman in episode 5, and he just seems kind of bemused brushes the comment aside as if it has no significance instead of being distraught at another reminder that he might not actually know who he is or where he really comes from. There's the other bit where Thom tells Mat some things about Aiel and how red hair is kind of their thing, but Rand's not in that scene, so even if we're supposed to associate him with that we don't get to see him react to it. That said, I think episode 5 was the best of the lot. I LOVED the world-building and future-plotting of Lan's and Moiraine's stories through the lens of what Stepin was going through. Episode 4 was the second-best. Logain was amazing. Nynaeve was stellar throughout the whole show, as were Moiraine and Lan. Sad about Mat because he was fantastic too. Perrin was good, but I don't think his story was adapted as well as it could have been. In the books he's kind of a nothing-burger before the party splits and he meets the wolves and kills the whitecloaks, and really starts wrestling with controlling his violent side, so I agree with moving that violent outburst for him to struggle with to earlier to give him interest for the first few episodes, but I agree with what Sanderson said about making it wife to fridge was going too far, and they should have had him accidentally kill Master Luhan or something similar. I didn't care for the relationship angst with Egwene either, although I can see how that can be read in the book (I had a slightly different take on their dynamic, but I can definitely see why anyone might think he was holding a candle for her, in the Tinker camp chapters). At any rate, this makes me a little concerned for season 2 because The Great Hunt is ALSO all about Rand, albeit with a substantial B-plot of "what's going on with Rand's girlfriends". It's not really until book 3 that the Ensemble really starts breathing on its own without him (and he's almost completely absent from that book). Combining books 2 and 3 will possibly help. My big prediction for Season 2 by the way, is that we're going to need to coin the term Caem-rhien, because I can think of a lot of production and budget and audience-comprehension reasons to combine the major story beats from both of those cities into one or the other and basically no back-breaking story reasons from the books not to. I don't know which city they'll pick, but Rand will get there in Season 2 to meet Elayne, reunite with Thom, and get indoctrinated in the Great Game before heading out west to Falme. St0rmD fucked around with this message at 03:56 on Mar 6, 2022 |
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Mar 6, 2022 03:38
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goethe.cx posted:A thought I had on Galina, since she showed up again in KoD: it seems clear that RJ is using her to test the reader's limits on what constitutes acceptable revenge. We're meant to hate her, she put our boy in a box and beat him, and is Black Ajah to boot. We probably all felt satisfaction when she first got snapped up by the Shaido. But the increasingly brutal treatment Therava inflicts on her feels like RJ using the reader as a vessel to ask: at what point does the punishment outweigh the crime, however heinous? I don't know, we're privy to Galina's internal monologue and she never shows any remorse for her sins or desire to be anything other than a hateful, despicable tyrant. Every time we check in on her she's not merely begging for relief from her punishment, but conniving to put herself back in the position of power so that she can be the one inflicting pain and suffering on others. Even when Faile and co show kindness and mercy toward her by putting their necks on the line to steal Therava's oath rod and help her escape her situation, instead of repaying the kindness, she instantly betrays them. IMO she rejected every opportunity for redemption she was ever presented with and therefore deserved exactly what she got, and the only thing I wished for when her arc ended, was that she had gotten it sooner. St0rmD fucked around with this message at 08:20 on Mar 6, 2022 |
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Mar 6, 2022 03:50
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Pleads posted:I'm listening through Fires of Heaven again and noticed that after Nynaeve and Elayne escape Ronde Macura they use forkroot to dose her and her apprentice, and then later on forkroot only affects channelers.
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Mar 6, 2022 05:38
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silvergoose posted:On the other hand, in her mind she probably wasn't betraying the dark one in that moment? Just removing an oath, she could still remain loyal. If the sisters are questioning her and she refuses to remove the oaths, she could very well believe it's the hour of her death. goethe.cx posted:A thought I had on Galina, since she showed up again in KoD: it seems clear that RJ is using her to test the reader's limits on what constitutes acceptable revenge. We're meant to hate her, she put our boy in a box and beat him, and is Black Ajah to boot. We probably all felt satisfaction when she first got snapped up by the Shaido. But the increasingly brutal treatment Therava inflicts on her feels like RJ using the reader as a vessel to ask: at what point does the punishment outweigh the crime, however heinous? The difference between the real world and this world is that Galina was pledged to actual, real, Satan SSJ_naruto_2003 fucked around with this message at 06:24 on Mar 6, 2022 |
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Mar 6, 2022 06:20
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Hexel posted:this day is just way too bizarre IMO, she's not on my mood board for Cadsuane, but she'd be a perfect Renaille or Harine.
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Mar 6, 2022 08:29
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St0rmD posted:IMO, she's not on my mood board for Cadsuane, but she'd be a perfect Renaille or Harine. In the reread I did last year she was my mental casting for Sorilea, I think she would do well in that role
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Mar 6, 2022 11:53
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CainsDescendant posted:In the reread I did last year she was my mental casting for Sorilea, I think she would do well in that role That's one I imagined her in when that tweet popped up last year. I always imagined Sorilea with that gravely voice.
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Mar 6, 2022 13:25
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Honestly she would have to be a big name character, not interchangeable Aes Sedai #312. Plus the ageless face thing. So my money would be on a Wise One
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Mar 6, 2022 13:47
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gently caress Galina No one puts Rand in a box 
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Mar 6, 2022 16:15
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Data Graham posted:Honestly she would have to be a big name character, not interchangeable Aes Sedai #312. Plus the ageless face thing. For 70 years old she seems active as gently caress and kinda in demand with another series in post production right now, currently filming a movie, and another thing in pre-production. Here's to hoping she materializes in WoT season 3 or 4.
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Mar 6, 2022 16:21
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St0rmD posted:Pulling up old stuff to respond to again (I'm pretty much caught up with this thread-history now...) I agree that they needed to make it more of an ensemble story than the Book version of Eye... but I feel they did a terrible job of that. They didn't just cut from Rand, they cut from the entire EF5 to add more to Moiraine and Lan and supporting characters. The Stepin stuff was fine and would have been better received in like a 10- 13 episode season. But at 8 episodes it felt gratuitous.
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Mar 6, 2022 16:27
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Ultimately, Rafe was right....they needed more than eight episodes. The compromises they had to make to squeeze it all down to eight really hurt them. Here's hoping that Amazon will loving listen to the man for future seasons and give the show the time to breathe it needs.
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Mar 6, 2022 16:49
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Data Graham posted:Honestly she would have to be a big name character, not interchangeable Aes Sedai #312. Plus the ageless face thing. It would be neat to see her playing a Forsaken though.
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Mar 6, 2022 18:18
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calandryll posted:That's one I imagined her in when that tweet popped up last year. I always imagined Sorilea with that gravely voice. I totally have pictured Sorilea with a gravely voice too. That tweet between Rafe and s.a. seems a little more tongue in cheek to me that they already have had talks going. Either way ill be happy with her in the series.
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Mar 6, 2022 19:30
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So here I am mired in a Perrin pov in CoT constantly fretting about Faile in his internal dialogue and I had a realization. Perrin is a douche. He’s spoken about as reliable by all. He is considered consistent and caring and dutiful. Aram demonstrates that everything we are lead to believe about Perrin is a lie. He does not take responsibility or do his duty. He shrugs Aram off and treats him badly leading to his corruption and death. He doesn't want to lead or care and constantly affirms this internally. He selfishly pursues his own wants and needs. He sets aside Rand’s mission the second Faile got kidnapped and tolerates Masema’s marauding because he needs his men against the Shaido. Contrast this to Mat. The unreliable, gambling drunkard. The man who everyone knows shirks responsibility at all times and definitely would never do his duty. He finds Olver by chance on the side of the road and adopts him. Looks after him, teaches him. He gives Olver everything a child should have albeit in the Mat way. Olver and Aram serve as a fantastic window into who both Perrin and Mat truly are. Hexel fucked around with this message at 02:34 on Mar 7, 2022 |
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Mar 7, 2022 02:30
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Hexel posted:So here I am mired in a Perrin pov in CoT constantly fretting about Faile in his internal dialogue and I had a realization. Perrin is a douche. I don't think Aram and Olver are really a fair comparison because Olver is a child and Aram is the same age as Perrin. Perrin definitely fails Aram in some ways, but uh he also doesn't have nearly the same responsibilities towards him. Notably this stuff is also really tenuously connected to your first paragraph because Mat also totally shirks a ton of his responsibilities, raises an extra-legal military organization that he abandons for months (it is a miracle the Band didn't end up like Masema's group) and constantly pursues his own personal goals while thinking how much he hates responsibility. And even with Olver most of his interactions are fobbing him off onto other people and teaching him some questionable things.
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Mar 7, 2022 03:04
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aram is also fuvking insane
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Mar 7, 2022 03:30
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Natty Ninefingers posted:aram is also fuvking insane He was alright until he met Masema.
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Mar 7, 2022 03:34
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Nitrousoxide posted:He was alright until he met Masema. I mean he was burying himself in violence to cover his anguish at losing everyone he cares about
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Mar 7, 2022 03:52
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:I mean he was burying himself in violence to cover his anguish at losing everyone he cares about That last part isn't entirely true, Raen and Ila are still alive and they despair over what Aram has chosen to do. Still it's clear that the Trolloc and Whitecloak attacks have radicalized Aram against the Way of the Leaf
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Mar 7, 2022 04:22
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goethe.cx posted:That last part isn't entirely true, Raen and Ila are still alive and they despair over what Aram has chosen to do. Still it's clear that the Trolloc and Whitecloak attacks have radicalized Aram against the Way of the Leaf They disowned him to his face. They might still be alive, but their relationship isn't.
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Mar 7, 2022 04:40
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What happened to Aram is spelled out directly by Elyas. When he picked up the sword, it was a rejection of everything he believed in. He lost his religion, his family, and his entire culture all in one decision. In their place, he got the sword, and Perrin. That wasn't enough to fill the void within him, and that made him extremely vulnerable to Maesema's manipulations. Perrin knew full well that something was wrong with Aram. He just didn't have the faintest clue how to fix it. Probably because nobody could have fixed it for Aram - the only thing that would have saved him was him to find a real replacement for what he'd lost.
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Mar 7, 2022 07:41
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If his family didn't pretend he was dead maybe he wouldn't have went insane idk
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Mar 7, 2022 08:44
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Folks in here acting like Perrin should be a licensed therapist specialized in cult deprogramming.
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Mar 7, 2022 09:54
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Devorum posted:Folks in here acting like Perrin should be a licensed therapist specialized in cult deprogramming. TA'VEREN!!!!
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Mar 7, 2022 11:22
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Perrin rarely has the critical capacity to think through why people are feeling the emotions they are even when his nose tells them the exact emotions that flare up in response to his words. He doesn’t have time for people when his nose is like “idk dude that guy’s crazy as hell”
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Mar 7, 2022 13:34
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Is it ever stated why the Seanchan Ogier gardeners don't suffer from the longing?
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Mar 7, 2022 13:58
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Gnoman posted:What happened to Aram is spelled out directly by Elyas. When he picked up the sword, it was a rejection of everything he believed in. He lost his religion, his family, and his entire culture all in one decision. In their place, he got the sword, and Perrin. That wasn't enough to fill the void within him, and that made him extremely vulnerable to Maesema's manipulations. I always thought that was a lovely thing. I mean they try and recruit people who do violence all the time, but if one of their own "falls off the wagon" even once, there's no way back for him. Why? At least they seemed to realize it in the end, but he was long dead by then.
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Mar 7, 2022 14:04
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