|
Zore posted:I mean by this definition all games are just puzzles because they have loss conditions? How does Triangle Strategy not count under this definition, you can still get game overs if all your characters die in a map. key word is "all". and yes its still a puzzle, but there are multiple paths to the solution. you can win flawlessly or you can have only one survive and you get the same outcome without any further changes to the rest of the game. thats the flexibility part that i like.
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2022 21:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 22:38 |
|
|
Chapter VIII: That guy with the portrait that screams "I'm going to betray you first opportunity I get" offered to lend Serenoa the aid of his libertarian army, and while I, the player, knew it would be a ruse, I figured the story would be interesting if I nudged my team to take his offer and surprise surprise it was all a ruse to capture Roland.
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2022 21:55
|
|
|
Just started playing this from my demo save. Not sure how much time will go into this given Elden Ring is around, but it's still nice to dump an hour or two into this before going to bed. I realize Serenoa's convictions are a meme now, but the whole system seems unnecessarily opaque to me. That poo poo pops up at the most random times and even when there's no player input. Am I supposed to know which conviction was strengthened from just like... ending an exploration phase or climbing a ladder? I finished a battle yesterday and that thing popped up like four times in row during the end of battle recap. Even when you do get a dialog choice a lot of the time it doesn't feel like the three options all map cleanly to one of the values. I mean, it's fine, I don't care that much. But I find it a really strange decision to have it front and center in the promotional materials and even the name of the game and have it be this obscure. Mustard Iceman posted:Anna and Hughette are definitely S-tier... I find that Roland is way too fragile for a front-line character, though, even with defense upgrades. Hughette gives me extreme Canopus (from Tactics Ogre) vibes in that they're both flying archers that you get extremely early in the game. They are both insanely powerful in their respective games.
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2022 22:40
|
|
|
i personally like the dialogue choices not being immediately obvious since it means you are actually going with your gut the first play through. that being said they aren't too hard to figure out. from what I can tell freedom choices are people focused, morality when ya start talking honor and duty, and utility is concrete terms/dealing with schemers Snooze Cruise fucked around with this message at 22:56 on Mar 7, 2022 |
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2022 22:54
|
|
|
Yeah I actually like the compromise of keeping the systems obscure for the first playthrough for the experience then revealing everything in NG+ to help you see all the content. I know most people don't finish games let alone replay them though, so maybe from the average player POV not having a toggle is a mistake
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2022 22:57
|
|
|
Been having a good time with this game but I really wish the font sizes were adjustable. It's a freakin' font for ants!
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2022 22:58
|
|
|
It seems like a 1st blind playthrough is relatively short for an srpg, my 1st run of tactics ogre LUCT took waaaaay longer than 30 hours
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2022 23:43
|
|
|
Detective No. 27 posted:Permadeath in Fire Emblem is overstated. You don't have to reset. They're usually designed so that you can lose a unit or two in every map and still be able to complete the game. With recruitable characters along the way to keep your roster together. A unit death puts the player in a short term/long term decision making scenario. I mostly agree, but permadeath with limited rewinds is the true pinnacle of design imo You have all the high tension and stakes that come with permadeath, but you're able to rewind bullshit or mistakes, which means you're still encouraged to take risks and be aggressive. It becomes a strategic resource in itself where you might be a bit cautious in the start so that you have plenty of charges left for the end when you start breaking out crazy tactics. Or maybe you go the other way, charging forward at the start and then taking safe wins as your charges dwindle. I never play SRPGs had the highest difficulty but I couldn't get enough of Three Houses on Maddening I'm sure there are still people who reset after running out of rewind charges, but being able to play god - even for a limited amount of time - completely changes the psychology behind it. Somehow I'm way more accepting of a character's death if I at least had the chance to save them. and hey, if you still die after I rewind time like a dozen times, then idk man, maybe it was just meant to be
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2022 00:40
|
|
|
Ojetor posted:Just started playing this from my demo save. Not sure how much time will go into this given Elden Ring is around, but it's still nice to dump an hour or two into this before going to bed. Once you get to new game plus it explains exactly what buffs what. Like I know investigating objects raises Utility.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2022 01:06
|
|
|
Was gonna say, Three Houses has the best approach to permadeath by letting you get X opportunities to undo a mistake so you don't have to restart the whole mission if someone dies, yet still has it so you want to avoid letting anyone die if possible (unless you're on Casual of course). Likewise, Into the Breach works great despite giving you perfect information, though it helps that since it's a roguelike if you mess up you just start a new hour-ish run completely. Different styles work for different gameplay systems, and TS's plan of "no penalties for unit deaths beyond losing them for the rest of the battle" works well for what that game's battles do. I don't think permadeath is good or bad by itself, it's how the game is designed in general that determines whether it works well or not. I think permadeath works great for Fire Emblem battles yet I'm glad Triangle Strategy doesn't have it since it's not really designed around it, as otherwise every battle would be constant turtling since healing opportunities are limited.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2022 01:10
|
|
|
Natural 20 posted:Well my NPC suicided into the opposing team and cost me my first victory after I had them wiped. As I said before, this is a successor to Tactics Ogre. That includes mission vital NPCs with a death wish. Huxley posted:Every fight is like a JRPG boss, in that I want to have a really tough time and feel like a genius when I figure it out and beat it, but also I never want to lose a boss fight under any circumstances. Please stop reading my mind and posting my thoughts without my permission.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2022 01:18
|
|
|
Cephas posted:I think permadeath made more sense when it was like, these units are unique people, but the roles they fill in combat are easily filled by someone else. In modern Fire Emblem games you spend 15 hours raising skill levels and getting unique promotion abilities to create the perfect soldier, and then there's the whole dating system which promotes game-long investment. As much as I love Fire Emblem games, there definitely got to be a point where the permadeath for realism was directly clashing with things like timewarp bubbles that let you eugenics a perfect child soldier. I agree. I suppose my sentiments in my post apply more towards classic Fire Emblem. The series always put faces and names to your soldier, making them hard to let them go, it's even harder in the modern games when they're in cutscenes, have voice acting, and have tons of fan art.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2022 01:31
|
|
|
All that being said I would feel like doing an ironman run of this game would be absolutely hilarious. Edit: Also I really appreciate the game's choices now. It keeps nailing me over and over again on what I will sacrifice in the name of practicality and I've finally come to a line I won't cross. So yeah, good job game. Natural 20 fucked around with this message at 02:01 on Mar 8, 2022 |
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2022 01:58
|
|
|
Natural 20 posted:All that being said I would feel like doing an ironman run of this game would be absolutely hilarious. What is it?
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2022 02:31
|
|
|
MonsterEnvy posted:What is it? My pink haired wife will never dye her hair brown for the sake of political convenience.  Serenoa's convictions have been strengthened.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2022 02:45
|
|
|
Levantine posted:It's super cool to win without using the traps but it feels like such a let down that there are no extra rewards for doing so. All the non-burned houses have people that say "Thanks!" but it feels like a missed opportunity to not put resources in them. Kinda bummed me out. Great opportunity for an extra Medal of Bravery or something. There kind of is. It's theorized to be part of what unlocks the secret 4th ending, which requires you to make a certain set of decisions throughout the game. For those curious about this: Refuse to give up Roland, don't use the traps, agree to Sorsley's plan, reveal Roland's identity to Svarog, defend the Roselle and find the hidden thing, go home to Wolffort. willing to settle fucked around with this message at 03:08 on Mar 8, 2022 |
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2022 03:02
|
|
|
Out of curiosity, I looked up who the super-late joining plot characters are and I wanna know what they play like. I know Milo has a "make a second super jump move" and she's... well, a dancer so I anticipate buffs and debuffs. Travis and Trish I've fought against, Travis is a melee bruiser and Trish is an archer. Cordelia seems like a healer/buffer to me?
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2022 03:25
|
|
|
Junpei posted:Out of curiosity, I looked up who the super-late joining plot characters are and I wanna know what they play like. I have one from my first playthrough Trish is Fire based archer/thief. She has a passive that autoattempts stealing consumables (Medina synergy) with every normal attack and a TP free 5-range teleport. Her other actives include Flaming Arrow (fire element shot) + Bullseye (guaranteed hit) her weapon skill is   I'm going for Cordelia this playthrough since she's probably the healer with Regen
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2022 03:55
|
|
|
Chapter VII: Man, that was intense. It took me like three tries, but I eventually managed it by playing keepaway with Ice Wall and spring traps. Julio was essential too, keeping up the party's TP. Even then, I'm not sure I could have managed without the level boost from the failed attempts, seems like it's time to grind.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2022 05:29
|
|
|
This game is so cozy to play before bed. Even if it’s just story beats and no battles, its nice to play for an hour each night.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2022 07:30
|
|
|
MonsterEnvy posted:What is it? Spoilers for Chapter XI, Route is: 3 Green, 7 Yellow, 8 Yellow, 9 Yellow, 10 Red, 11 Green. House Ende of Hyzante was suspected of smuggling salt. I was asked by Hyzante to investigate the smuggling and was requested by Ende to smuggle salt to Aesfrost. I decided to investigate the full extent of the smuggling chain because I thought I didn't have enough evidence to start. So I ended up smuggling salt to Aesfrost. This largely worked because I found a cool ally in Aesfrost as a result of my work. While I did this Hyzante independently uncovered evidence against Ende, so when I got back I was accused of helping them smuggle. Serenoa argued that we were made to smuggle under duress, which is unfortunately not the best claim when instead he could have said that we were actively investigating and gathering evidence. So Hyzante said that in return for House Ende's position distributing salt and a seat as part of the saintly seven we had to give up the Roselle in Wolfort territory. Put simply, over my loving dead body am I sending a persecuted minority back to slavery after I promised to protect them.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2022 13:14
|
|
|
Even though I did chapter VI in the demo, it took me three tries to beat in the real game. I’ve learned a valuable lesson: always assume more reinforcements are coming. Also it isn’t worth sending a unit far away from the main group just to pick up loot. Thankfully Ser Maxwell unintentionally picked it up on my third run.
Blackbelt Bobman fucked around with this message at 13:36 on Mar 8, 2022 |
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2022 13:34
|
|
|
Chapter 13/14 - I chose the "infiltrate the castle route" Roland suggested. I ended up in a fight with the Thalas on a ship that Erika joined as reinforcements halfway through. Really satisfying to dust them off. The second battle was against Avlora in the courtyard of the castle. Ezana was my MVP - made it rain then just kept shocking the water as at least half the army was in there at any time. 50/50 they got paralyzed from the AoE current through the water. Picoletta joined in throwing thunderstones in on her turns. It was one of those battles that just felt really good to fight. Just some thoughts, so far: One thing I've noticed and kinda hate is that enemies are always faster than the bulk of your characters. There's just nothing you can do outside of hoping you get more Vanguard Scarves I guess. I'm growing really attached to my normal army crew but I want to change it up in NG+. Hossabara is a great melee unit that can play backup healer. She's strong and can use pushback. I have her equipped with a regen item and that Black Anklet that raises all stats but poisons so they mostly counteract eachother (aside from the first turn since regen takes place first). Rudolph just plain fucks. Traps that do % damage and kill enemy turns, a sleep shot arrow that hits HARD and sleeps enemies. He needs more movement/speed though so I have him with a speed ring and movement item equipped. Picoletta is kind of amazing for how lovely she is. Enemies just plain beeline for her decoy drawing fire and if they kill it, it explodes doing damage to everything around. Attack items are good too (see the spoiler). Erador hasn't left my group since the battle he joined. He's tanky and his weapon art makes him literally invincible and taunts everything around him. Plus he also has pushback. Jens is a great utility character (but hits like a wet noodle). His traps can really jack up enemy troops at elevation and his ladder is great for funneling enemies into traps they can't get out of. I think there are a lot of ways to play since the game is generally more "balanced" than most of this type. I do like the power fantasy of other SRPGs but this game manages to make every unit relevant in their own way and there are fun synergies between characters. I suspect my next playthrough's army will look significantly different.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2022 14:33
|
|
|
Played up to chapter 5 on a friend's copy. Still mulling over a purchase. About how long is one run looking? I know there's multiple routes but not sure if I'd go for 100% this game or not because in long games especially I don't really like pushing through on story choices I find really lovely, although I guess with the way this game works I might be stuck on an option I don't like if my conviction points are too low to convince enough people?
|
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2022 14:36
|
|
|
Zerilan posted:Played up to chapter 5 on a friend's copy. Still mulling over a purchase. About how long is one run looking? I know there's multiple routes but not sure if I'd go for 100% this game or not because in long games especially I don't really like pushing through on story choices I find really lovely, although I guess with the way this game works I might be stuck on an option I don't like if my conviction points are too low to convince enough people? I'm at around 40 hours and maybe 3/4 of the way through the game. I have never failed to convince one person to choose my selected path. Your conviction points matter but so do your conversation options. You need to remember that you're talking with the characters, not to them - they have opinions and you have to know what they'll respond to. On a first playthrough it feels very organic IMO. Bear in mind almost all cutscenes can be skipped so NG+ doesn't need to be nearly as long if you don't want it to be.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2022 14:40
|
|
|
Finishing up my first playthrough, i'm a little disappointed that (late-game spear user) Maxwell is a recruitable party member and not Jerrom , but I guess it makes sense because they're both the same archetype. Honestly there probably should have just been more recruitables in general depending on the route you take, but I am pretty happy that the ones you do get have some lines. (Chapter 15 village recruit) Trish is probably my favorite because of her ability to emote and be more likable than lukewarm milk Although I do wish that both Rudolph and Corentin would have more dialog in the main story, considering the player is guaranteed to have one of them. Zerilan posted:Played up to chapter 5 on a friend's copy. Still mulling over a purchase. About how long is one run looking? I know there's multiple routes but not sure if I'd go for 100% this game or not because in long games especially I don't really like pushing through on story choices I find really lovely, although I guess with the way this game works I might be stuck on an option I don't like if my conviction points are too low to convince enough people? I'm on the last chapter and i'm about 35 hours in. It might take me 1-2 more hours depending on how much prep I want to do before the final fight. I was at one point unable to pick the option I wanted to do (Chapter 13), but I wasn't stuck with the option that I didn't want to do. On NG+ I'm pretty sure everything is available because your convictions are already sky high. Arrrthritis fucked around with this message at 16:04 on Mar 8, 2022 |
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2022 15:53
|
|
|
Arrrthritis posted:Although I do wish that both Rudolph and Corentin would have more dialog in the main story, considering the player is guaranteed to have one of them. Yeah that woulda been neat imo. Like everyone else just getting character stories is fine but considering you pick one of those guys up early and in the main story it would be neat to have them occasionally pop up again. Don't need to be part anything major, hell just have them on the walk around maps.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2022 16:38
|
|
|
Snooze Cruise posted:Yeah that woulda been neat imo. Like everyone else just getting character stories is fine but considering you pick one of those guys up early and in the main story it would be neat to have them occasionally pop up again. I did the chapter 18 mission on the Morality route, and It would have been great for Corentin have any reaction at all to the revelation that the place he used to work turned roselle bodies into the equivalent of dynamite. I don't think it's like, a major strike against the game though, just a pretty big missed opportunity.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2022 17:03
|
|
|
Can you choose dialogue stuff relatively freely, or will you suffer from now "min-maxing" a specific "orientation"? I've been just choosing the stuff that I prefer so far, but hopefully you don't have to go heavily into a specific angle to qualify for things.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2022 20:23
|
|
|
Ytlaya posted:Can you choose dialogue stuff relatively freely, or will you suffer from now "min-maxing" a specific "orientation"? There are recruitable character events that don't show up until you reach specific thresholds. The points also make Scales of Conviction persuasion checks easier. Unless you are RPing, it's better to spread your points around so you can grab as many recruits as possible on your first playthrough. I got every character except 3 and the route specific ones on my first run. I got the rest (besides route ones) early in NG+ I capped this screen that shows all your missing recruits + current points yesterday. You can access Scout Information as a NG+ feature 
Gyoru fucked around with this message at 20:35 on Mar 8, 2022 |
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2022 20:31
|
|
|
Ytlaya posted:Can you choose dialogue stuff relatively freely, or will you suffer from now "min-maxing" a specific "orientation"? Its kind of mixed? The checks aren't super high except for some very specific characters and you can technically grind out infinite conviction (don't actually do this). Most of the optional characters are also locked behind mixed conviction scores so you need like 215 Morality and 400 Liberty etc for their sidequest to pop up. For reference each time you pick a dialogue option you get 50 points to the associated score and you get +1s for tons of small stuff. There are 3 side characters that you only reasonably get if you beeline a single conviction for most of the game as they require 1600.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2022 20:31
|
|
|
Ytlaya posted:Can you choose dialogue stuff relatively freely, or will you suffer from now "min-maxing" a specific "orientation"? if your choices didnt matter then why bother? The game is full of exclusive choices that you only qualify for based on your convictions. this includes story beats, recruitable characters, which battles you'll see, and of course the eventual ending. you are welcome, and probably intended in a first play through, to choose any option you want, but you will not see the entire game or get all the characters without unlocking the specific requirements through your choices in NG+ playthroughs.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2022 20:36
|
|
|
Yeah just go with your gut. it's not about rping just engaging with the game on its level. it wants you to make your own choices
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2022 20:45
|
|
|
ate poo poo on live tv posted:if your choices didnt matter then why bother? The game is full of exclusive choices that you only qualify for based on your convictions. this includes story beats, recruitable characters, which battles you'll see, and of course the eventual ending. Oh, I'm fine with them mattering. I was just wanting to avoid a situation where you somehow lose out by mixing up choices between different convictions categories (which apparently isn't the case). I will continue to choose things freely.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2022 20:59
|
|
|
What we need is a game with the art style and production values of this game and the gameplay of Fell Seal: Arbiter's Mark. Then we will have a truly great sjRPG
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2022 23:28
|
|
|
Oof, Chapter 16 spoilers Roland's path, I assume. I'm in the Norzelia mines having to navigate mine cart bullshit while also trying to defuse bombs enemies drop. You have 70 turns (each character movement counts as a turn) and they lay them all over the damned place. The only cool thing is the tracks seem like they also carry electrical current so your Lightning mages/thunderstone tossers can get some work done at long range It's not the most fun of maps tbh.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2022 00:18
|
|
|
BabyRyoga posted:What we need is a game with the art style and production values of this game and the gameplay of Fell Seal: Arbiter's Mark. Then we will have a truly great sjRPG I should probably dust that off and give it another go.That said, I want so many more games in this vignette art style. I love love love it. I’d say my biggest criticism is that the ‘mind battles’ or whatever are way more boring and uninteresting so far than any of the story battles. Kind of bored of flat rectangles already.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2022 00:33
|
|
|
mental battles do diversify, they start having ones with objectives and stuff too
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2022 00:39
|
|
|
Here's something I just shat out (assuming Elite promotion + final Weapon skill) S Tier Medina Quahuag A+ Tier Anna Benedict Hughette Julio (story spoiler) -Maxwell- (story spoiler) -Cordelia- (story spoiler) --Avlora-- A Tier Frederica Erador Geela Jens Narve (story spoiler) ----Milo---- (story spoiler) ---Travis--- (story spoiler) ---Trish--- B+ Tier Serenoa Roland Corentin Lionel Piccoletta Groma Flanagan B Tier Rudolph Archibald Ezana C Tier Hossabara Giovanna Decimal Class balance is pretty good overall
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2022 01:29
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 22:38 |
|
|
The only place I'd immediately disagree on is Picoletta because Decoy destroys entire offenses.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2022 01:52
|
|