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Speaking of John Cena, my 11 year old has mild autism and is prone to verbal tics where he'll just repeat nonsensical words and phrases at random every now and then. He doesn't even watch wrestling but for a good while his go to was "John Ceee-na!" and I have no idea why. I was going to buy him a Cena action figure until I saw how they expensive they were; at least the ones I found. The other night, I showed him some "stupid wrestling gimmicks" video on YT and he about pissed his pants laughing at the Gobbledee Gooker and Shockmaster. "Why is he wearing a stormtrooper helmet covered in tinfoil?" He wanted to see more weird wrestling stuff and now I'm worried I may have actually gotten him into this stupid poo poo.
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Mar 8, 2022 00:36
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BiggerBoat posted:Speaking of John Cena, my 11 year old has mild autism and is prone to verbal tics where he'll just repeat nonsensical words and phrases at random every now and then. He doesn't even watch wrestling but for a good while his go to was "John Ceee-na!" and I have no idea why.
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Mar 8, 2022 00:47
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BiggerBoat posted:Speaking of John Cena, my 11 year old has mild autism and is prone to verbal tics where he'll just repeat nonsensical words and phrases at random every now and then. He doesn't even watch wrestling but for a good while his go to was "John Ceee-na!" and I have no idea why. I was going to buy him a Cena action figure until I saw how they expensive they were; at least the ones I found. he's already a mark, brother
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Mar 8, 2022 00:54
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shadow puppet of a posted:That audio clip, played abruptly, blown out and distorted was a hot YouTube meme that died only when Tik tok took over. And soundboards died out to be replaced by lip syncs. That would definitely explain it. thanks
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Mar 8, 2022 01:05
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16-bit Butt-Head posted:he's already a mark, brother Gimmick Battle Royal.
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Mar 8, 2022 01:20
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Just lmao at the thought of Brock "The Beast Incarnate" Lesnar being pitched as a babyface, even if he's facing Roman Reigns. drat, breaking up The Shield really was one of the dumber things WWE has done because at least The Shield was over.
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Mar 8, 2022 02:18
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Bogus Adventure posted:Just lmao at the thought of Brock "The Beast Incarnate" Lesnar being pitched as a babyface, even if he's facing Roman Reigns. drat, breaking up The Shield really was one of the dumber things WWE has done because at least The Shield was over. brock is the most unbelievable babyface ever and it owns lmao
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Mar 8, 2022 03:07
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16-bit Butt-Head posted:brock is the most unbelievable babyface ever and it owns lmao When did he become a cowboy?
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Mar 8, 2022 03:43
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I want to do some posts on the history of CM Punk in WWE. It’s a good look at a guy who gave a lot of himself in hopes of reaching his dreams, and certainly was given many accolades over the years, but still felt betrayed and bitter in the end. But before I can get into all of that, I need to talk about the bizarre history of WWE’s ECW, otherwise known to fans as WWECW. Extreme Championship Wrestling existed for several years before succumbing to debt and being bought out by Vince McMahon. ECW was part of the ill-fated WCW invasion storyline, where Stephanie McMahon was depicted as its in-story owner and leader. Once the storyline was finished, ECW was completely defunct. A few years later, WWE released a 3-hour documentary on DVD called the Rise and Fall of ECW. For a WWE documentary (they love rewriting the history that they won), it was especially good and it made them a lot of money. Vince decided to test the waters on ECW’s fanbase by doing a PPV in 2005 called One Night Stand. It was a big ECW reunion show and people loved it. It did so well that not only was there going to be a second one, but it was going to springboard the return of ECW in the form of a third brand, coexisting with Raw and SmackDown. Instead of Superstars and Divas, it would have Extremists and Vixens. WWE’s ECW was a Frankenstein monster when it came to ideas and talent. Various ECW stars of yesteryear were brought in like Sabu, Sandman, and Balls Mahoney. Certain members of the main roster went to ECW with the idea that they could feel at home as ECW talent, such as Kurt Angle, Hardcore Holly, and Big Show. Hell, Big Show appeared at the second One Night Stand to interrupt a throwaway six-man tag and wreck poo poo and the hardcore ECW fans there were completely psyched for it! The brand was also a way to introduce new talent to WWE audiences. This included CM Punk, but I’ll get to him in the next post. To build up the new show, they did a pretty crazy main event at One Night Stand. Rob Van Dam had won the Money in the Bank briefcase at WrestleMania and instead of blindsiding the champion like most would, he announced that he would be taking on Cena at One Night Stand, on what amounted to his home turf. The scene was memorable for the rabid anti-Cena crowd, including a sign saying, “IF CENA WINS, WE RIOT!” There was nobody cheering Cena here and when he tried throwing his shirt into the crowd, it got thrown back repeatedly, usually with some middle fingers gestured his way. In the end, RVD won, thanks in part to interference from Cena’s rival Edge. RVD was WWE Champion and was given the ECW Championship. Unfortunately, it didn’t last too long, as RVD and Sabu were pulled over by police. The wrestlers were high as gently caress and that immediately led to a suspension for RVD and him losing both titles. The ECW Championship went to the Big Show, now considered “The Extreme Giant.” Though Big Show was in horrible shape at the time, there was some charm to his run as champion. Having him shrug off weapon shots, only to slam his opponents through tables was pretty cool. He even did open challenges, where people like Ric Flair would show up on ECW to challenge for the title. It was surreal. This also led to a major strike against the devoted ECW fanbase as they did a show in the Hammerstein Ballroom with a main event of Big Show vs. Batista. The fans poo poo on this extremely hard, including chants of, “CHANGE THE CHANNEL!” Vince was not happy with this and stopped giving ECW its own venues. It became a pre-show to the taped episodes of SmackDown. The big moment of the poo poo hitting the fan was when they decided to give this brand its own PPV. December to Dismember aired on December 3, 2006. It’s considered to be one of the all-time worst wrestling PPVs and while I don’t quite agree with that (I mean, I would if I paid for the PPV as it happened), it was a cocktail of bullshit. 1) It aired ONE WEEK after Survivor Series. Two weeks before Armageddon. 2) Going into the show, only two matches were announced. One was the Extreme Elimination Chamber main event for the ECW Championship. The other was the Hardy Boyz vs. MNM, a match where neither tag team was on the ECW roster. 3) Other than the solid Hardyz/MNM match, the undercard was made up of forgettable matches that would feel like filler on a regular episode of ECW. 4) ECW Original Sabu was found beat up backstage and was replaced with Hardcore Holly in the Chamber match. Nobody liked this idea. This meant that the only ECW people that the fans actually cared about in the match were CM Punk and RVD. 5) Punk and RVD were eliminated from the Chamber match fairly early in hopes that fans would cheer on Vince’s golden boy Bobby Lashley. Paul Heyman, who booked the show, wanted to have CM Punk tap out champion Big Show in the opening minutes only for Lashley to win in the end, but was vetoed. Instead, Lashley was the last man standing with Big Show still in his pod. Then Big Show stepped out and Lashley beat him moments later. 6) This entire PPV was just over 2 hours long. 7) This PPV did the lowest buyrate in WWE history pre-WWE Network. Paul Heyman was the fall guy in this and was fired. ECW ended up embracing its spot as the C-show in WWE. This was arguably a blessing in disguise. The show was better off without trying to relive ECW’s glory days under the WWE umbrella. Instead, it became a prototype for NXT’s best years. It was a place for new talent and older talent in need of a fresh coat of paint to have awesome matches. It was a place for guys like Sheamus, Jack Swagger, and Zack Ryder to figure themselves out in. Where Matt Hardy and Mark Henry could get a new lease on life. Of course, there was still some silly poo poo and controversy. See, Lashley got involved in the big Vince McMahon vs. Donald Trump WrestleMania feud where proxies would battle it out and the losing billionaire would have to shave their head. Vince had Umaga and Trump had Lashley. After Umaga lost and Vince had his head shaved, Vince became obsessed with ruining Lashley. This led to the hilarious stretch where Vince used Umaga interference to help him WIN THE ECW CHAMPIONSHIP. For a wonderful month, we got elderly Vince McMahon wearing a doo rag and carrying the ECW title belt, trolling the remaining ECW fanbase. Lashley did win the belt back, but then got traded to Raw. Since the belt was explicitly about ECW, he had to vacate it. A tournament was put together to crown a new champion. The finals came down to the dream match of Chris Benoit and CM Punk. An episode of ECW ending with the two staring each other down, preparing for the upcoming PPV. Said match would remain a dream. At the PPV Vengeance: Night of Champions, Punk instead faced Johnny Nitro as Benoit no-showed. Commentators used an excuse of a “family emergency,” but they didn’t know the reality of the situation. They wouldn’t until the following night during the infamous Chris Benoit memorial episode of Raw. One night later, ECW would open with Vince explaining that due to the context of Benoit’s death coming to light, there would be no more mention of him ever on WWE TV. ECW remained kicking for the next few years and was a very solid show. Unfortunately, it was still treated as the red-headed stepson of WWE and would rarely get representation at PPVs. At WrestleMania 24, the pre-show had a battle royal to crown a #1 contender, which ended up being Kane. On the main show, he destroyed ECW Champion Chavo Guerrero with a single chokeslam in 11 seconds. Christian carried the show in its latter days, getting to be featured in solid PPV title matches. Even Tommy Dreamer, the heart and soul of ECW itself, got a brief run on top. But all things must come to an end. As Dreamer stepped down from action, there were no ties to the ECW of old. Vince announced that ECW would be closed down and replaced with the fake game show version of NXT. The 193rd and final episode of ECW aired on February 16, 2010. It ended with Christian dropping the belt to Ezekiel Jackson, who went on to do absolutely nothing with the notoriety of being the final ECW Champion. Man, I’m going to have to do a post on the game show era of NXT soon. What a loving weird time to be watching wrestling that was.
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Mar 8, 2022 04:38
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Brock Lesnar is the Jiren of wrestling.
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Mar 8, 2022 04:50
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I definitely don't know enough about it to post, but does anyone have an effortpost in them explaining the bizarre final season of NXT that just kinda...never ended?
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Mar 8, 2022 05:08
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Cena’s earlier catchphrase when he was developing into SuperCena was “Hustle, Loyalty, Respect” (which made his Prohibition gangster themed entrance for Wrestlemania 22, guest starring CM Punk, incredibly tone deaf to anyone who actually knew anything about crime in that period. Those people did not have loyalty or respect, not truly, and it’s hardly hustle if you exist in a system where as Ted DiBiase cackled, everyone had a price, and the price was often cheap). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7esVyWfUBQ (Also, man, it's weird to not hear overwhelming booing when Cena comes out, unless WWE sweetened the audio. Once again, it shows, it didn't have to be this way.) So, in turn, to conclude, I want to discuss three things: Cena’s booking, the annoying ease that it could be fixed (and why it wasn’t), and Cena himself. 1) John Cena, “Terrible Wrestler” As mentioned several times, anyone who actually had any ability to understand didn’t really boo John Cena the man, and even weren’t really booing John Cena the character. They were booing John Cena: The Booking Experience. Someone linked Max Landis’ video on Triple H, where he briefly mentions Cena in a negative fashion, mainly how his matches had no stakes or drama because everyone knew no matter what he was going to win, and as said, that mindset and the bitter aspects of it taints everything. As said, Cena wasn’t the first or the last to have a move setpiece: Bret had it, the Rock had it, Shawn Michaels had it, hell even CM Punk had one when he was first starting in WWE, and while you could argue that Cena’s was bad because it made every opponent look stupid and weak (you would think that after a few years that the average opponent, if they started being hit by shoulderblocks, would do something beyond get up and take a swing at Cena, only to miss and allow Cena to grab them for his spinning half powerbomb, which always seemed to stun them for so long that Cena could do a little performance before doing a basic fistdrop on them, but nope, it seemed like Cena had some sort of extreme suggestibility power that made virtually all his opponents do just that), no one complained (or complained to the same degree that Cena got) when Rock did a spinebuster and then did his extended setup for the People’s Elbow, or when Scott Taylor did his bulldog and then his even longer setup and execution of “The Worm”. You could say that Cena’s finisher, a basic fireman’s carry overhead slam, looked weak, but if you ask those types of people what sort of finishers look ‘strong’, you’d probably get an answer of moves that honestly don’t belong in wrestling, or at best should only be used very rarely, instead of weekly. Stuff like the moves on this list, most likely. Yes, taking these moves in front of a crowd of 100 people for 200 bucks is so much truer and better than the Attitude Adjustment. Snark on that aside, that might be the biggest thing that the so-called ‘Anti Cena’ crowd that’s too far up its own butt never recognized: just who Cena’s act did it for. You look at this gif…  And it becomes less sour that Cena’s act is wholly built around doing this. Anyone who gets in the way of young children’s simple, harmless joys is not someone I’d aspire to be. You might know the type. The kind of person who shows up at a Toys R Us for a Pokemon event to get one of those super rare Pokemon, who’s three times older than the average person (ie, a child) there and smirkily talks about how he could destroy every child there in Pokemon battles with his perfectly EV raised Level 100 omega teams. Or someone who basically Black Friday rushes into an opening McDonald’s and mouth-breathingly cackles that he wants some of that “Szechuan sauce” after Rick and Morty made it a THING and McDonald’s brought it back. Or just tell children that Santa Claus isn’t real. It can be tricky. I speak from pseudo-personal experience. I’ve mentioned I was at Wrestlemania 18, and I was pretty smarky back then. When I was arriving with the crowds outside and began hearing constant “Hogan” chants, I was baffled. He’s the bad guy, and worse, what gives? But then we got to the actual match itself. I do wish I could go back to it as I am now, because for half of it I was basically looking around, mouth wide open, hands up in disbelief. What are you people DOING? Don’t you KNOW what this man DID? What you’re cheering? The answer of course is, no, many, many of them didn’t. This was a returning wrestling legend and hero of their childhoods, and they treated it as such. Now, even I wasn’t so up my own rear end that I actually said anything to this extent, keeping it to myself, nor was I so jaded that I didn’t get sucked into it by the end, but really, I do wish I had known better then. I do know better than to Cena and the WWE backstage, the kids covered in Cena merchandise mean more (for different reasons) than my fat, frowning rear end. There was some gif I was once of some stereotypical neckbeard in the front row of a match where Triple H was fighting Ric Flair, and when Triple H won, the fan huffingly turned his back. Like that meant anything, or like it showed any sort of positive quality about himself. There’s a line about not liking a product and being a drama queen about not liking it, and trust me, the latter is not going to increase your odds of the former changing. Still even taking all of this into account, it’s still very irritating that... 2) The fix for these years long issues are so simple, a computer could do it I remember that for the video game adaption of the rather divisive 2006 film Superman Returns, the makers had an idea to deal with the fact that Superman is supposed to be nigh invincible: give Metropolis its own health bar. So while Superman’s health could barely be moved by most anything and wasn’t too hard to restore, you instead had to focus on protecting the city, the avoidance of damage and repairing of such shifting elsewhere. I don’t think it worked too well, but that’s execution. In concept, that’s a great idea. People are constantly making GBS threads on WWE Creative, but I honestly feel the blame is mostly misplaced. As I keep saying, the buck stops with Vince McMahon. That’s fine if he’s just a filter or an idea organizer, but Vince ain’t that. He’s a tyrant whose buttons change without warning or indication, and he’s liable to throw your work out and demand a restart, or insist on things that only make sense in his brain. Or just because he finds it funny: Katie Vick happened solely because Vince found the punchline utterly hilarious. If you were in such a job, how long would it be before you stopped in any way trying? Just started going through the motions, doing the bare bones, and collecting a paycheck? How long before you would be so crushed under such micro-management nonsense that you would just repeat the same bland formula, or stare at so many wrestlers and have no ideas, because any ideas you have, you just don’t care to try them because it’s wholly arbitrary if they’ll be accepted or not? There’s a reason that the WWE has 20 writers and negative ideas, it’s because they actually only have one writer, and his brain is a messed up, scary place, and he has absolute control of the narrative. That basically renders these suggestions a lovely pipe dream: they happened because that was what Vince wanted. Vince wanted zero variety. Vince saw the audience of kids covered in Cena merch and went “same finish is fine every time”, no matter what. Vince has, once again, forgotten what happened during his first big boom period; he created a new audience, but odds were it was a fad audience. One with a limited shelf life. Kids do grow up. They get older, and start to understand more nuance. Heck, many children understand certain degrees of nuance far more than most adults would give them credit for. Again, turning around and trying to main focus the ‘true audience’ is also not the answer, but this is not a difficult problem. It’s not like we’re trying to have Kevin Nash (and for his sake, we’ll say in the prime of his career) have to rework his whole style to become a Rey Mysterio type high flyer, or to utilize a WWE adjacent sportsman, trying to train Mike Tyson’s voice so he sounds deep and intimidating instead of sounding like he does (and when you can hit like him, think such a voice is in any way a drawback at your peril). These are very easy adjustments, adaptations that could make all the difference. The first and biggest one, the one most brought up, of course, is sometimes, just have Cena lose. Maybe, even once in a blue moon, have him lose clean. Have him fail. Yeah, Hogan never lost, but Hogan’s time is done. You can draw on a classic idea, but you have to adapt it. It’s a little more tricky then just having Cena job every now and then; yes, I believe most of Cena’s child legions wouldn’t give up the WWE, Cena, and all the stuff their parents could buy them just because Cena got beaten a time or two, but trying to make sure just which audience is going to have their Cena legions suffer that disappointment is probably not something that can usually be ascertained as a glance. If not hanging some losses on him, alter his selling. The most hated thing besides Cena’s always winning was him taking a beating, sometimes a really extended one, then springing up, nailing his MOVES OF DOOM, winning, and then celebrating like he’d just gone for a light jog around the ring. He can still celebrate and let the young fans thrill, but have him have to stop, to rest a bit, catch his breath, SELL THE BEATING. The young fans are not going to leave en masse if there’s the slightest hint their hero is mortal. Hell, it tends to make people appreciate their heroes more if they’re a flawed being that can make mistakes: it’s easier to relate to a person then a saint. His MOVES OF DOOM being so drat irritating? Establish that he can have bursts of ferocious offense where he hits like a truck, but if you can stall it out, he’s vulnerable. Have some clever heels counter it. You’re allowed to do that. Rob Van Dam’s finisher, the “Van Daminator” had him throwing a chair to his opponent and then kicking it into their face, and it usually worked. And then one time Tommy Dreamer immediately threw it back at him, and it didn’t. Or one time Sandman caught it, juked backwards to avoid the kick, and then hit RVD with it. Have him mix it up, so not that EVERY DARN OPPONENT decides to try and punch him with a big roundhouse hook after being smacked with shoulderblocks. Have him have a ‘backup finisher’ in case the Attitude Adjustment fails, heck, make it Sean O’Haire’s “Reverse Attitude Adjustment”. When Cena won the U.S title and began doing open challenges, more opponents started kicking out of the A.A; I really think they should have made it so that Cena was starting to slow down and his moves didn’t hit with the same oomph that they did before. Oh, and of course, don’t have everyone present Cena as the Greatest Great Who Ever Greated, but that’s probably asking way too much for the simple minds who force people to say that. None of this is difficult. Add some doubt and some variety and I’m pretty sure most of the issues that just got worse and worse over the years wouldn’t have gotten out of the starting gate. And here’s the thing. I said that wrestlers tend to get into the business either as a job or a calling, and for Cena, it seemed to be a calling. He was well aware of the intense negativity, and he seems understanding enough to know how to respond to it. No Ultimate Warrior here, who supposedly had no interest at all at becoming any better at his job. Once he got firmly established, I’m sure he could have done any and all of these things, and that it could very well have occurred naturally to him. Which leads me to the final point that I don’t think is considered much when it comes to the John Cena problem. 3) Who IS John Cena? Two things here. One was the time that Cena felt that a wrestler, Matt Sydel, who wrestled in WWE under the name Evan Bourne, was being underutilized and told the WWE he needed to be better so. So for about two or three weeks, Bourne got some focus…and then it dropped right back off and Bourne was just ‘a guy’ again. You’d think Cena would have to go backstage and go “Hey, Bourne! Come on guys!” Yet, he didn’t. He gave one brief push, and then went back to his own endless thing. The other was mentioned before in the thread, on an episode of Total Divas where Cena’s girlfriend, Nikki Bella, tried to use the kitchen in Cena’s empty, alarmingly clean house, only for him to have a mild freak out, clean up the kitchen, and say they were going out to eat. But the moment I think of more was them being filmed talking in a car, and Cena was just so…hollow sounding. Blank. None of the energy of John Cena: The Character, or John Cena: The Inspirier who has granted hundreds of Make-A-Wishes. But hey, he’s human. Humans have limits. He’s allowed to be tired…except between that moment, the kitchen moment, and the ‘once asked then dropped’ thing above, mixed with the fact that many people say that John Cena, the man, seems to be a legit good guy for the most part, and well… Cena’s been constantly compared to Hulk Hogan, but really, that’s a bad comparison. Cena’s really more of an Anti-Hulk Hogan. Hogan went backstage and used all his ways and tricks and crap to twist the show to be all about him. Cena did the opposite; he did whatever the office wanted, without question or complaint. When it seems like he should have enough awareness to, you know, ACTUALLY DO THAT. There’s a story on how when Cena was part of the team facing the Nexus in the Summerslam main event how he talked about how he was going to get DDT’d on the concrete and then get back up two minutes later to do his usual FIVE MOVES, win, and celebrate, and both Chris Jericho and Edge told him it was a terrible idea. He did it anyway, and when he came backstage he told them “You were right, it was a bad idea and I shouldn’t have done it.” But he did. Was that Cena’s hand in the booking? Or did it come from Vince, who never wanted Cena to look weak, no matter what, and Cena just followed along. That big empty mansion? That wasn’t the half of it. Cena, I believe, was indicated to basically be supporting his whole family on his efforts, which is a lot to hoist on someone even if they make as much money and get as much fame and attention as Cena does. I said that the Ultimate Warrior character might have utterly consumed the man, Jim Hellwig, and Cena has said one of his regrets is becoming a big star under his real name instead of a stage name, like Steve Williams becoming Steve Austin, or Terry Bollea becoming Hulk Hogan. And I think that somewhere along the line, something just like that happened. John Cena, the Character, consumes all of Cena, the man’s, energy. He gives 110 percent, the first to show up and the last to leave, going to near ludicrous degrees to give devotion to his fans. He holds the largest Make A Wish wish grants for the charity by miles, over 650 of them (Hulk Hogan topped out in the 200’s). His work ethic is ridiculous. Too ridiculous. It doesn’t exist in a vacuum, and I feel it leaves virtually nothing for whoever John Cena is when he’s not in front of a camera or trying to help someone out. John’s extraordinary life has consumed virtually everything normal that John could have, and if you know what you’re looking for, it’s frighteningly obvious. Why doesn’t he try and tweak his character? Or his matches? Why does he just do whatever the backstage told him to do, even when it was clear that it was doing as much potential harm than good? Why did he give the likes of Sydel and maybe others one mention and then never again? Because he just doesn’t have the energy. The energy goes to John Cena: The Character. John Cena, the man, is left that drained, husk-like fellow we saw driving that car. And this isn’t even getting into Cena’s potential flaws, like him maybe stringing along a woman in a relationship for nearly ten years while having affairs (Mickie James is a name I’ve heard in that regard, but again, hearsay), and then when they finally did get married (in 2009), it only lasted a few years. Or his relationship with Nikki Bella, especially when contrasted with Nikki’s twin Brie and her relationship with Bryan Danielson; while the latter two seemed well matched to each other and have been married for eight years with two children, Cena and Nikki seemed to have trouble forming a true connection, again, perhaps, because Cena had no energy for it. It says a lot that Cena finally did ask Nikki to marry him after a match at Wrestlemania 33, only for them to split a year later, a month before the actual wedding. Nikki and John say it was because they loved each other but had accepted that each saw their lives and careers as permanently at a crossroads and going away from each other, and maybe that’s true, but I wonder. When Cena returned in 2016 to have a ‘passing of the torch’ match to Roman Reigns, Reigns’ promo spliced in real life by accusing Cena of having a ‘golden shovel’ and ‘burying talent’. On one hand, Reigns is wholly talking out his rear end, or maybe he hallucinated and thought Cena was Paul Levesque. Cena never buried anyone, or at least, he didn’t do it as the concept is usually accepted as. It makes sense. Joe A’anoi is not a ‘calling’ wrestler. If he had a choice, I suspect he would have wanted to be a professional football player. But that didn’t work out, so he went into the family business. It really showed in interviews when the Anti-Roman reactions were getting to Cena level intensity and Roman/Joe seemingly just did not get why they were reacting this way, instead thinking that the fans, who had at first supported him and had ‘just as suddenly’ stopped doing so, were fickle and ungrateful (see also: Rhoda Rousey). He had no proper instinct for the business and its ways, not realizing they were less turning on him as letting the people in the backstage know They Did Not Like This Or How This Is Being Done. But you sure as poo poo ain’t gonna get the writers or the likes of Kevin Dunn (and ho boy I might get to him) to come out so the crowd can poo poo on THEM, so Roman gets the brunt of it. And yes, Vince comes out, but he’s so far gone that no angry crowd is ever going to reach him. The only thing that will is vanishing money, and Vince and co have managed to bumble and fail upwards to the point where it doesn’t really matter if the crowds stop coming and the PPVs don’t crack five digit sales, because that’s not where the money is any more and they’d latched firmly onto the new teat. At the same time though, Reigns WAS right. Cena could have, should have, done more. But maybe, he just can’t. Maybe all his essence goes solely into John Cena: The Character, and John Cena: The Helper. It would take John Cena: The Man to do such things, and he has nothing to give. I do worry a bit for what will happen to Cena when his career in all things entertainment starts winding down and the world no longer needs everything and more from John Cena: The Character. And it’s deeply ironic that the first lines of Cena’s most well know entrance music, sung by him, is “Your time is up, my time is now.” Cena directed that at his opponents, but I can’t help but think he ended up directing it mainly at himself. Cena the Man’s time would go away, leaving just Cena the character. Quite frankly, that fact to me is much worse then any failing in the business Cena ever committed. To be a pale shadow of a lifelong character. And his name, most horrifyingly…is (also) John Cena. Though for one thing he did do for me: he made me try Fruity Pebbles, which wasn't sold where I live until recently. I discovered, much to my surprise...it basically tasted the same as Fruit Loops. Go figure. — Also, I never heard the start of Cena’s theme as “Rapidoo” or “Apple dough” or stuff like that, as I didn’t hear it as a “AAA-VUH-DOH” sound. I heard it as “A VOODOO!” as the syllable sound to me sounded like, well, “AHH-VUH-DEW”, an “Ew” sound instead of an “Oh” sound. It’s actually saying “Amadou”, and is sampled from this song. --- Szyznyk posted:When did he become a cowboy? According to an interview, that's more or less the real him. He was born a country hick and he says that he's country hick at his core at the end of the day. Ghost Leviathan posted:Brock Lesnar is the Jiren of wrestling. This is a very apt analogy. Gavok posted:Man, I’m going to have to do a post on the game show era of NXT soon. What a loving weird time to be watching wrestling that was. TheSwizzler posted:I definitely don't know enough about it to post, but does anyone have an effortpost in them explaining the bizarre final season of NXT that just kinda...never ended? I was going to bring this up myself. NXT The Game Show at least made some sort of sense under a general 'reality show' concept. NXT Season 4-Ever on the other hand, was...something else entirely. (Although I believe the basic answer was something like "They had licensing agreements to provide certain stations with certain amounts of content, and it was cheap to just do the endless Season 4 and use that and hence you got that strange fever dream spinning of wheels.") Cornwind Evil fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Apr 8, 2022 |
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Mar 8, 2022 05:10
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In 2009 I got curious about wrestling again after a long hiatus, and watched the death throes of ECW. I actually really loved Christian as the veteran face and William Regal as the villain. The young guys too, Ryder and Yoshitatsu among others, were solid. I even have a soft spot for Zeke even though he was not popular.
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Mar 8, 2022 05:31
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Gavok posted:WWE’s ECW You totally forgot the best part. Raw was on Spike TV. Smackdown was on UPN. Where does ECW go? Sci-Fi Channel. That's a pretty drat odd pairing at first glance, but at least one person in charge somewhere was aware of that fact.  This is The Zombie, played by the late Tim Arson. The Zombie was... a zombie. He stumbled into the ring, grabbed the microphone from the ring announcer, and cut one of the top 5 promos in WWE ever. You already know what you're going to see here, don't you? Also included in the video is ECW veteran The Sandman coming down through the crowd, and beating The Zombie up with a kendo stick, essentially sending a couple messages out there to the audience about what to expect out of "WWE's version of ECW, on Sci-Fi Channel." This actually became a recurring segment on ECW. They'd come out with various gimmick characters and have Sandman beat them up. They quickly stopped having much to do with "Sci-Fi elements" and were more just whatever random comedy poo poo they could come up with. Like... Macho Libre - A cross between Nacho Libre and Macho Man Randy Savage And my personal favorite, Big Dick Johnson.  I searched for images and this one came up from our very own forums. Big Dick Johnson was already a sort of established character in WWE, courtesy of Vince McMahon wanting to see a big fat male stripper character for some reason, and getting one of the writers to portray it. It actually was kind of well received, so WWE would bring him out every now and then, including on ECW where this happened.  This even became my forums avatar for quite some time!  Now as far as other sci-fi elements would go, I believe there might have been a guy dressed as an alien or something, but there were actually two larger presences on the show that would represent "sci-fi" pretty strongly. The first was Kevin Thorn.  No, this isn't a member of My Chemical Romance. Kevin Thorn was a wrestling vampire.  How original! There was also Ariel, a tarot card reader... for like one or two episodes. Then Kevin Thorn bit her and she became his vampire valet.  There's a lot more to say about Thorn and Ariel's times in WWE, but that's a whole other story and maybe someone better than me could talk about them since it was right around that time I stopped watching. Also if anyone remembers any more sci-fi things they included in the show, or any other stuff regarding what kinda show ECW was (Kelly Kelly's sexpose or whatever comes to mind), those would be some great additions too. Jamesman fucked around with this message at 07:33 on Mar 8, 2022 |
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Mar 8, 2022 07:30
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Jamesman posted:There was also Ariel, a tarot card reader... for like one or two episodes. Then Kevin Thorn bit her and she became his vampire valet. Wow, Big Titty Vampire Wrestler is a fetish I did not know I had until now...
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Mar 8, 2022 07:47
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Sounds like WWE has a very particular brand of bad management where there's an unquestionable boss who's a mix of micromanaging control freak and coked up child with ADHD who makes it basically impossible to actually make any plans because he'll get bored or pissed off at something arbitrary and tear everything up. Like what I hear about Chris Roberts. You get the same result where the creative teams basically just give up and do the bare minimum because it doesn't matter what they actually do or get invested in, it's probably going to get thrown out or random changes demanded anyway so you just throw together poo poo at the last minute when it's too late for Vince to decide it all has to change again. (probably)
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Mar 8, 2022 07:53
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Bogus Adventure posted:Wow, Big Titty Vampire Wrestler is a fetish I did not know I had until now... Big Titty Vampire is a fetish everyone is born with so I think you're lying. Maybe the Wrestler part is new for you though. I dunno.
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Mar 8, 2022 08:15
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WWE's booking of John Cena was so bad that it permanently warped the way wrestling fans discuss his run as they are unable to talk about him or his booking by just saying it made him seem boring, his opponents look weak and made the product really suffer they need to have existential discussions about how the booking eroded his soul or whatever. Anyway, history has vindicated all the children that loved John Cena because turns out he was in fact much cooler than guys like Triple H that older fans supported and a way better wrestler, basically about as good as most of his opponents throughout his run especially after the first few years. He even managed to end up seeming like a half-decent guy for a WWE Main Eventer while still being insane and weird, which is very important for being a cool wrestler imo. Probably the last real huge star the WWE has made and I don't think there'll be any more.
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Mar 8, 2022 08:27
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I NOTICE A DISTINCT LACK OF RAW REPORTS *cough*
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Mar 8, 2022 08:54
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SyntheticPolygon posted:WWE's booking of John Cena was so bad that it permanently warped the way wrestling fans discuss his run as they are unable to talk about him or his booking by just saying it made him seem boring, his opponents look weak and made the product really suffer they need to have existential discussions about how the booking eroded his soul or whatever. No, that's just me. Really though, it's like (ho boy man oh man am I making wrestling seem so much more lofty than it us) the debate that because there is suffering, there cannot be an all knowing, all powerful, all loving God, because suffering disproves each claim. If Cena is smart enough to recognize the issues, and seems like a good enough guy to actually want to fix them, then...why doesn't he? The only other option is that we've misread him completely and he really is Hulk Hogan with More Colorful Shirts. Which I suppose is just as likely. I wouldn't know unless I could have a personal talk with the man. Cornwind Evil fucked around with this message at 09:00 on Mar 8, 2022 |
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Mar 8, 2022 08:56
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Jamesman posted:Big Titty Vampire is a fetish everyone is born with so I think you're lying. It's definitely the wrestler part. I was always down with Elvira and Vampirella.
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Mar 8, 2022 09:00
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I do wonder if Cena's bookings were so formulaic because attempting anything more out there had Vince throwing a fit.
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Mar 8, 2022 09:00
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Cornwind Evil posted:No, that's just me. I dunno dude just likes the WWE and is probably fine with following their booking even if he realises it kinda blows at times. He's a company guy all in all. Like he's said in interviews he wasn't always a fan of the comedy stuff he often did but dude seemed to like being Super Cena, he liked doing Make a Wish stuff and i'm pretty sure he liked the money he was making. Hell the guy even seemed to like the boos.
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Mar 8, 2022 09:44
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Not gonna lie, I like John Cena and his theme song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxxB3Du16QI
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Mar 8, 2022 10:08
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Bogus Adventure posted:Wow, Big Titty Vampire Wrestler is a fetish I did not know I had until now... Ariel vs Kana for a battle of who made the least appealing soft porn movie is a fight for the ages.
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Mar 8, 2022 12:15
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Something I remember with Kevin Thorn and Ariel was that at an ECW house show, whenever he would go for a pin and the opponent would kick out, the crowd would yell "ONE! TWO! AH-AH-AH!" Also, the fans chanted "SHE'S GOT HERPES!" which at first annoyed Thorn, but then he got concerned. He pulled the referee away mid-match, pulled down his bottom lip and had the ref inspect it.
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Mar 8, 2022 14:35
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Cena's run was boring and held no interest to me but his Cinematic match with the Many Phases of Cena was some high concept stuff that was a decent change. I get the feeling he went with the SuperCena stuff because gently caress. Who is he to tell Vince otherwise.
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Mar 8, 2022 17:05
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great av material: https://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/gallery-heres-how-every-wwe-2k22-wrestler-looks-compared-to-2k20/
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Mar 8, 2022 17:28
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windham's reward for that cinematic match with cena was being booked so atrociously he won Worst Gimmick that same year, then was fired the next year despite being one of the bigger merch sellers in wwe anyway the stuff with orton and alexa was gross
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Mar 8, 2022 17:40
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I really want to read an in-depth autopsy of Bray Wyatt/The Fiend.
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Mar 8, 2022 17:53
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Cornwind Evil posted:No, that's just me. The Gnostic Gospel of Thuganomics contains the answers you seek.
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Mar 8, 2022 18:08
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Ad by Khad posted:windham's reward for that cinematic match with cena was being booked so atrociously he won Worst Gimmick that same year, then was fired the next year despite being one of the bigger merch sellers in wwe anyway I'm kind of afraid to ask
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Mar 8, 2022 20:01
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Svensken posted:I'm kind of afraid to ask Made all the more creepy by her Harley Quinn gimmick (being corrupted by The Fiend).
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Mar 8, 2022 20:14
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The discussion of Cody Rhodes and how having a pro-wrestler be in charge of booking basically amounts to handing them The One Ring reminded me of an anecdote where once Vince asked Bob Holly what direction he would go with his character if it was up to him. And Bob, knowing that there was zero connection between an idea being good and Vince going with it, just said as a matter-of-fact, "Well, I would have all the championships, and I would never lose".
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Mar 8, 2022 21:40
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SirPhoebos posted:The discussion of Cody Rhodes and how having a pro-wrestler be in charge of booking basically amounts to handing them The One Ring reminded me of an anecdote where once Vince asked Bob Holly what direction he would go with his character if it was up to him. And Bob, knowing that there was zero connection between an idea being good and Vince going with it, just said as a matter-of-fact, "Well, I would have all the championships, and I would never lose". just imagined kevin nash as isildur and started loling
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Mar 8, 2022 21:48
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Svensken posted:I'm kind of afraid to ask 
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Mar 8, 2022 22:28
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Mar 8, 2022 22:31
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I fail to see the issue with crazy people killing Randy Orton.
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Mar 8, 2022 22:59
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If anyone has knowledge about the super early days, like when it went from people legitimately wrestling at the local carnival to "hey we can make more money if we fix the outcome" and on to "hey we can fix every move so we don't get hurt and add theatrics to draw more people" I'd be interested in reading about that. I saw a documentary about Jack Johnson, the first black heavyweight boxing champion awhile ago and it turns out old timey fighting is really interesting to me, the style of boxing they used back then was very different from what you would expect from a boxing match today.
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Mar 8, 2022 23:13
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GokuGoesSSJ3 posted:If anyone has knowledge about the super early days, like when it went from people legitimately wrestling at the local carnival to "hey we can make more money if we fix the outcome" and on to "hey we can fix every move so we don't get hurt and add theatrics to draw more people" I'd be interested in reading about that. I saw a documentary about Jack Johnson, the first black heavyweight boxing champion awhile ago and it turns out old timey fighting is really interesting to me, the style of boxing they used back then was very different from what you would expect from a boxing match today. I think the short version is that they started scripting matches where they had a big, bad tough wrestler (a "hooker", a guy with very strong legitimate skill) who'd take open challengers from the crowd and utterly kick their rear end, and then they'd have a planted guy who would challenge him and win to make sure the crowd left on a happy note Gambling was almost certainly involved Edit: Apparently Abe Lincoln did a fair bit of wrestling in the carny sense
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Mar 8, 2022 23:33
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