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Edgar Allen Ho posted:The egyptians were quite good, but it's still very odd because they'll have shockingly modern medical advice right next to straight up magic spells. There are spellbooks describing controlled experiments. "Yeah the magic sigil is supposed to go on frankincense which you eat to cure scorpion stings, but i did a study with a bunch of substances and it turns out the sigil is the active ingredient, doesn't matter what you put it on"
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Mar 7, 2022 03:53
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:The egyptians were quite good, but it's still very odd because they'll have shockingly modern medical advice right next to straight up magic spells. Yeah iirc the Edwin Smith papyrus, which is largely a manual of how to diagnose and treat traumatic injuries like conks on the head, sucking chest wounds and broken limbs, has a few magic spells on the back side.
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Mar 7, 2022 14:47
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I was pulling articles for a request some time ago and came across the Chinese Journal of Non-Evidence-Based Medicine or something like that, and I had to ask, what are they just throwing darts at a dartboard? Even bad medicine must have some evidence behind it.
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Mar 7, 2022 15:47
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China basically has an entire cottage industry of bullshit journals set up to "prove" all their traditional medicine definitely works and totally isn't just huffing ground up rare animals.
Sweevo has a new favorite as of 22:06 on Mar 7, 2022 |
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Mar 7, 2022 16:40
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Is TCM all modern huckster bullshit? It's a whole other level from chewing on bark to relieve headaches, or cleaning wounds with maggots, cuz those help. I can even see why nasty poo poo like maggots or treppaning a conscious person would add credence to harmful stuff like bleeding.
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Mar 7, 2022 17:02
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basically it goes back to Mao needing doctors, not having enough doctors, and deciding he could fill the gap with propaganda
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Mar 7, 2022 17:16
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Tunicate posted:Mao needing doctors, not having enough doctors
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Mar 7, 2022 17:46
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AvesPKS posted:I was pulling articles for a request some time ago and came across the Chinese Journal of Non-Evidence-Based Medicine or something like that, and I had to ask, what are they just throwing darts at a dartboard? Even bad medicine must have some evidence behind it. It's really easy to manufacture evidence for bad medicine.
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Mar 7, 2022 18:20
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Seems like some people ITT are having a surprisingly large amount of trouble trying to grasp what "non-evidence-based" means.
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Mar 8, 2022 02:12
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People today and people ages ago both use non-evidence-based reasoning all the time, therefore, it is still interesting to know why or how they came to these conclusions, because they weren't dumber than us.
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Mar 8, 2022 03:21
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“Evidenced-based medicine” is a bit like “baby-friendly hospital”, in that it sounds like an unalloyed good, but when you look at what the practice actually entails, there are substantial negative consequences. That said, I know nothing about that journal, only that EBM has some real problems.
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Mar 8, 2022 03:25
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So, you prefer evidence free medicine?
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Mar 8, 2022 21:06
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Sure medicine is all well and good but it could do with some more mystery.
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Mar 8, 2022 21:22
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:People today and people ages ago both use non-evidence-based reasoning all the time, therefore, it is still interesting to know why or how they came to these conclusions, because they weren't dumber than us. for example, Timothy Dexter would have made an excellent poster
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Mar 8, 2022 21:48
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Platystemon posted:“Evidenced-based medicine” is a bit like “baby-friendly hospital”, in that it sounds like an unalloyed good, but when you look at what the practice actually entails, there are substantial negative consequences. I like the implication that there are hospitals where doctors are just unapologetically mean to babies. gently caress off baby, you stupid shithead
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Mar 8, 2022 21:50
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I swear to god, if I see one more baby I'm gonna lose it! I'M GONNA LOSE IT JERRY!
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Mar 8, 2022 21:52
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christmas boots posted:I like the implication that there are hospitals where doctors are just unapologetically mean to babies. It's where all of the antisocial-workers go.
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Mar 9, 2022 00:26
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I supposed I should give an example of evidence‐based medicine losing the plot. Certain proponents of evidenced‐based medicine have of late been suggesting that maybe surgical‐style masks are just as good as N95/FFP3 for protection from pandemic coronavirus and maybe hospitals should ditch N95s or at least allow trials to be run. There actually are a few studies showing N95 respirators working in real hospitals, conducted before the coronavirus pandemic, but that’s not the point. There are solid mechanistic reasons for believing that N95 respirators provide superior protection. Supplying healthcare workers with loose‐fitting surgical masks is like throwing someone out of a plane naked because there have never been randomized controlled trials showing that parachutes work. P.S.: The con to “baby‐friendly” hospitals is that they tend to be awful for the delivering parent, and can be worse for the baby, too, because exhausted, stressed people are not necessarily best able to care for the baby. Dropping babies is not good for their wellbeing. Platystemon has a new favorite as of 02:45 on Mar 9, 2022 |
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Mar 9, 2022 02:38
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christmas boots posted:I like the implication that there are hospitals where doctors are just unapologetically mean to babies. As an ex-baby (now reformed) I say kill 'em all.
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Mar 9, 2022 02:57
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"i reject evidence-based medicine because of covid" is some expanding  poo poo
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Mar 9, 2022 03:08
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moonmazed posted:"i reject evidence-based medicine because of covid" is some expanding
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Mar 9, 2022 03:10
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moonmazed posted:"i reject evidence-based medicine because of covid" is some expanding drat if this is the reading comprehension coming out of schools lately, we’re going to have some real problems.
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Mar 9, 2022 03:26
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No see evidence-based medicine uses the fringed admiralty flag so as a result the rhinoceros was not traveling and the horn was forfeit to a citizen of the land looking to enlarge his penis
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Mar 9, 2022 04:35
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Eh, dropping babies is fine. I fell down a flight of stairs as a baby and aside from a dent in my skull, look how I turned out.
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Mar 9, 2022 04:37
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Platystemon posted:I supposed I should give an example of evidence‐based medicine losing the plot.
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Mar 9, 2022 06:09
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Breetai posted:Really earning that custom text, huh? I’ve had it since July.
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Mar 9, 2022 06:26
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For a good part of 2020 the Danish government advice was against masking in the general population because: A) There was no evidence that it helps (because it hadn't been studied specifically for Covid-19 yet) B) There was concern about the supply.
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Mar 9, 2022 08:23
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NFX posted:For a good part of 2020 the Danish government advice was against masking in the general population because: And then the numbers exploded and it was VERY quickly changed, so yeah.
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Mar 9, 2022 11:44
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Platystemon posted:I supposed I should give an example of evidence‐based medicine losing the plot. In fact evidence based medicine has tools to manage that idea. We have different burdens of evidence for something that you can use as an out of body prophylaxis vs internal medicine. It's also built in to allow changing conclusions based on evidence changing. These are like core benefits of the scientific method applied to healthcare. Call it out as what it is. N95 hand wringing is political and capitalistic abuse of the system to cut corners, justify budgets, or assuage shortage concerns.
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Mar 9, 2022 15:19
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When it comes to covid, "science" conveniently changes to make it so that whatever encourages people to spend money is safe. It's not a problem with evidence itself, it's a problem with politicizing public health bodies. Restaurants are an insane idea during an airborne pandemic, but service jobs are a big sector of the economy, so they declare it's OK to take off your mask in public if you're eating.
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Mar 9, 2022 15:40
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I changed my mind. Actually evidence based medicine is only animal tests and clinical trials. I demand rats be given little tiny N95s strapped to their face and the resulting cute pictures be posted to the internet.
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Mar 9, 2022 15:47
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https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-60662541 The Endurance has been found. Let's all talk about Shackleton instead of fake medicine
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Mar 9, 2022 16:04
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Yeah let's talk about the Endurance and how Shackleton updated his crew's diet and successfully avoided scurvy and fake medicine
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Mar 9, 2022 16:16
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The british polar expeditions were such poo poo shows. The moment they arrive on one of the poles something goes horribly wrong and instead of being a scientific expedition it becomes a desperate struggle to not die.
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Mar 9, 2022 16:45
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Alhazred posted:The british polar expeditions were such poo poo shows. The moment they arrive on one of the poles something goes horribly wrong and instead of being a scientific expedition it becomes a desperate struggle to not die. Look, the missions were to reach the poles.
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Mar 9, 2022 16:53
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Alhazred posted:The british polar expeditions were such poo poo shows. The moment they arrive on one of the poles something goes horribly wrong and instead of being a scientific expedition it becomes a desperate struggle to not die. the polaris expedition is legit one of the funniest things that has ever happened. like, the crew split into three completely irresolvable factions, under the three conflicting captains the expedition also had for some reason, before they made it out of port. before they cleared newfoundland they were openly talking about when they were going to give up and clarifying that if any arctic expeditionary firsts were by some miracle accomplished how they'd make sure to cut that other fucker fake captain out of any credit. they credibly at one point might have conspired to just come back and all pretend they made it, poo poo who could tell otherwise. one of the captains fell near fatally ill after drinking a coffee from the ship's doctor (who was his mortal enemy because of a love triangle entirely separate and previous to this expedition), accused him of trying to poison him and refused all treatment and food or drink from him for two weeks until he was gradually convinced by others he was being paranoid, drank a cup of coffee which the ship's doctor had access to and immediately died. the british admiralty accepted the cause of death, you'll never guess who got to decide what that was, although at the trial he also explained that because it was cold out and he'd drank warm coffee who knows maybe his heart exploded. many decades later they dug up the body and found two enormous doses of arsenic in his system, two weeks apart, a mystery for the ages. things pretty much went to poo poo from there. the remaining captians both start getting into the scientific alcohol stores and one of them is constantly drunk. the wikipedia article for it is legit totally great and includes one of my favourite sentences, which is "For purposes unknown, Budington chose to issue the ship's supply of firearms to the crew."
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Mar 9, 2022 17:30
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Trabant posted:Look, the missions were to reach the poles. Sir Shackleton standing on the deck in the Victorian equivalent of a flight jacket and aviators, in front of a big sign that says Jᴏʟʟʏ ɢᴏᴏᴅ sʜᴏᴡ ᴄʜᴀᴘs CoolCab posted:many decades later they dug up the body and found two enormous doses of arsenic in his system, two weeks apart, a mystery for the ages. 
mrpwase has a new favorite as of 17:37 on Mar 9, 2022 |
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Mar 9, 2022 17:33
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A fun fact about the discovery of the northwest passage: Roald Amundsen had to loan a lot of money to get the expedition started. As time went the creditors grew impatient and threatened to seize his ship. Amundsen's solution was to literally slip away at night. When he reached international waters he found some rum and made a toast where he said: "Boys, we've escaped the creditors. Now all that mattes is that everyone does their duty and this will be easy. Cheers!" After three years they found the passage and ran into american whaling captain Charles Hansson, according to legend the captain exclaimed "you're either insane or you're norwegians" when he met them. The creditors had forgiven his debt but Amundsen still wrote them a message and said that after talking to the prime minister of Norway they had agreed that the debt would be paid, either by the government or by Amundsen personally.
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Mar 9, 2022 17:48
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CoolCab posted:the polaris expedition is legit one of the funniest things that has ever happened. like, the crew split into three completely irresolvable factions, under the three conflicting captains the expedition also had for some reason, before they made it out of port. before they cleared newfoundland they were openly talking about when they were going to give up and clarifying that if any arctic expeditionary firsts were by some miracle accomplished how they'd make sure to cut that other fucker fake captain out of any credit. they credibly at one point might have conspired to just come back and all pretend they made it, poo poo who could tell otherwise. Throw in a kraken and you've got Obra Dinn.
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Mar 9, 2022 17:49
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Reminds me I still havent finished watching The Terror. Though you don't need a demon polar bear to murder an Arctic expedition, just an incomplete understanding of nutrition in an environment utterly hostile to those who haven't spent their entire lives learning how to live there. Also it's kind of crazy to me that Endurance, a three-masted tall ship with an auxiliary engine, was built in the very same year as HMS Titanic. Presumably sailing vessels were preferred for exploration duty at the time due to not being utterly dependent on fuel to get out of dodge?
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Mar 9, 2022 19:27
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