Ukraine: The Aristoblyats

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Nick Soapdish: Apr 27, 2008

psydude posted:

It doesn't. Conscripts cannot serve outside of Russian territory.

Congratulations to all of Ukraine now considered Russian Federation territory

# ? Mar 9, 2022 16:09

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# ? Jun 5, 2024 19:31

Marshal Prolapse: Jun 23, 2012; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

KitConstantine posted:

Mmmmmm that's some good direct action!
https://twitter.com/Jake_Hanrahan/status/1501569532003033094?t=9AA5GsnKUfmXOHOL1tPBcA&s=19
Now do the Kremlin

That's not something you often see in Moscow.

# ? Mar 9, 2022 16:31

Tuna-Fish: Sep 13, 2017

Xakura posted:

So, are russian conscripts allowed to serve abroad?

No. In principle, only contract soldiers are supposed to be deployable. Of course, there are tons of reports of conscripts being literally ordered to sit in a room and not given food or water until they sign contracts, but hey...

Interestingly, the reports of troops who were only conscripted in last November being forced to fight in Ukraine is probably not because of Putin's callousness, but because of relatively low-level officers being corrupt. Contract soldiers are supposed to be paid wages. Those wages go through the battallion leaders, who are supposed to maintain (for example) 3 companies worth of men on contracts. However, whenever they are called to military excercises, only one company is called out of each btn. So, what the battallion leaders do is only maintain one company worth of contract troops, and pocket the difference. Then when there was suddenly a war on, no-one warned the officers early enough, and suddenly all three companies needed to be deployed and they were in a position where they have to admit to Putin that his army is half air. So instead, they just pressganged some poor bastard conscripts into signing contracts.

# ? Mar 9, 2022 16:34

Alan Smithee: Jan 4, 2005; A man becomes preeminent, he's expected to have enthusiasms.

Enthusiasms, enthusiasms...

Torrannor posted:

I thought for a moment they meant Ukrainian conscripts.

Same

Because why would you admit to being this self owned lmao

# ? Mar 9, 2022 16:35

Churchill: Nov 27, 2007; Winston

Alan Smithee posted:

Same

Because why would you admit to being this self owned lmao

As it is being published by russian state media, my guess is laying the groundwork for either putting the blame on some stooge or to explain to russian mothers why their conscript son suddenly came home in a zinc coffin (or turned in to ash in a mobile crematorium) somewhere in Ukraine. Probably a bit of both.

# ? Mar 9, 2022 16:45

Sentinel: Jan 1, 2009; High Tech
Low Life

Marshal Prolapse posted:

That's not something you often see in Moscow.

Finding out your friends got killed in a meaningless conflict tends to rile up the youth.
With how unpopular the war is i bet theyll find even more ways to give putin the finger.

# ? Mar 9, 2022 16:48

Stultus Maximus: Dec 21, 2009; USPOL May

psydude posted:

Curious about this. Is a NATO reserve unit just a normal US military reserve component unit with NATO as its operational command instead of a normal reserve command?

Basically yeah. Mine usually goes to Bydgoszcz JFTC for AT but lol pandemic I got stuck at NATO ACT in Norfolk last summer.

# ? Mar 9, 2022 16:50

Comrade Blyatlov: Aug 4, 2007; should have picked four fingers

Why are/were the coffins zinc?

# ? Mar 9, 2022 16:54

Churchill: Nov 27, 2007; Winston

Also it's certainly within the realm of possibility that Putin was told and in fact believed that only contract soldiers would take part in the invasion and that the omnipresent rat fuckery and corruption hid the reality from him. As has been frequently discussed lately, achieving a position of power both politically and militarily in Putins Russia has naught to do with competence, drive or initiative, the only thing that matters is loyalty and not rocking the boat, whether in regards to Putin or the larger system itself.

# ? Mar 9, 2022 16:55

Churchill: Nov 27, 2007; Winston

Comrade Blyatlov posted:

Why are/were the coffins zinc?

It was a reference to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, iirc zinc was cheap and wouldn't deteriorate like wood with the added bonus of being welded shut thus making it more difficult for the soldiers families to find out what killed to their sons or indeed if there actually was a body in there at all. I'm om my phone so I can't find a source but lions led by donkeys mentioned that the coffins would often be dumped outside the families homes without explanation or warning. So much for keeping up morale on the home front.

# ? Mar 9, 2022 17:04

Marshal Prolapse: Jun 23, 2012; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Sentinel posted:

Finding out your friends got killed in a meaningless conflict tends to rile up the youth.
With how unpopular the war is i bet theyll find even more ways to give putin the finger.

True, I'm just expecting stuff like this outside of Moscow (if at all). I'd figure the cops are heavily deployed currently in the city. Still it's good to see and I hope more start taking this type of action. You can hide a protest, but a building burnt down is visible for quite a while.

# ? Mar 9, 2022 17:05

BIG HEADLINE: Jun 13, 2006; "Stand back, Ottawan ruffian, or face my lumens!"

Alan Smithee posted:

we are no longer the Wagner group

we are the Rohm group

"World-class experts in rear echelon penetrations." :heysexy:

# ? Mar 9, 2022 17:08

Baconroll: Feb 6, 2009

UK is sending another 1600 NLAWs, some Javelins, and more interestingly some Starstreak MANPADs. Not sure whether the starstreak has ever been used in anger. Its not fire and forget but does in theory have benefits.

Guess we'll see...

# ? Mar 9, 2022 17:09

psydude: Apr 1, 2008

Churchill posted:

It was a reference to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, iirc zinc was cheap and wouldn't deteriorate like wood with the added bonus of being welded shut thus making it more difficult for the soldiers families to find out what killed to their sons or indeed if there actually was a body in there at all. I'm om my phone so I can't find a source but lions led by donkeys mentioned that the coffins would often be dumped outside the families homes without explanation or warning. So much for keeping up morale on the home front.

I was involved in several military construction projects in Afghanistan, and we were still finding the bodies of Soviet troops and working to repatriate them. We found two ourselves (both Ukrainians, actually), and the unit that we replaced found another 4.

# ? Mar 9, 2022 17:10

Comrade Blyatlov: Aug 4, 2007; should have picked four fingers

Churchill posted:

I'm om my phone so I can't find a source but lions led by donkeys mentioned that the coffins would often be dumped outside the families homes without explanation or warning. So much for keeping up morale on the home front.

loving hell.

# ? Mar 9, 2022 17:10

mlmp08: Jul 11, 2004; Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration; Nap Ghost

Now that the transcript is up, a little more clarity on what the SDO said reference combat power.

SDO posted:

No appreciable difference in change in the combat power that Mr. Putin has in. We still assess, basically, he's got nearly 100 percent. There might be a battalion tactical group or two that he doesn't have committed, but -- but essentially, he's got 100 percent of his -- of his amassed combat power inside Ukraine. We are not seeing indications that he is pulling from elsewhere in the country to add to that combat power. That combat power is largely intact, quite frankly. We would estimate, you know, the -- with all -- with everything he's got, he still has nearly 95 percent of the combat power that he started with. So 100 percent of the forces are in, or nearly 100 percent, I should say, and the combat power available to him, if you -- if you count his estimated losses just in terms of aircraft and vehicles that are either inoperable or not moving or not available to him, he still has a lot of combat power available.

The same could be said for the Ukrainians. I mean, they still have the vast majority of their combat power available to them, although they certainly don't have the -- the physical numbers that the -- the Russians do.

quote:

Q: I want to just come back to your assessment you made at the top about the -- he's got roughly -- he's got nearly 100 percent of his combat power in country but you're assessing he still has 95 percent of that -- is still usable. So that would in -- that -- that five percent delta would include what the military would consider combat-ineffective units, not just those that have been damaged or destroyed but -- but are basically stuck in convoys, wherever they might be, or just not -- not usable in combat? That's my first question.

SENIOR DEFENSE OFFICIAL: I -- I think it would be more either things are destroyed or are rendered inoperable, Eric. I mean, if a unit is intact, maybe it's stuck, but it's intact, hasn't been attacked, hasn't been degraded militarily, we wouldn't count that as -- as degraded combat power. It's still available, they just may not be using it.

Source:
https://www.defense.gov/News/Transcripts/Transcript/Article/2960227/senior-defense-official-holds-a-background-briefing-march-8-2022/

# ? Mar 9, 2022 17:13

Churchill: Nov 27, 2007; Winston

Comrade Blyatlov posted:

loving hell.

For more heart warming stories like that and other rather topical examples of Soviet military competence, I thoroughly reccomend listening to their 7-part series on the Soviet Afghan war. In fact, I think I'll do just that tonight.

# ? Mar 9, 2022 17:16

Nick Soapdish: Apr 27, 2008

Stultus Maximus posted:

Basically yeah. Mine usually goes to Bydgoszcz JFTC for AT but lol pandemic I got stuck at NATO ACT in Norfolk last summer.

That sounds like a wonderful AT (to Poland). When I was going through JFTC I saw someone in blueberries and was like "what's your deal?" and she told me and I was very jealous

# ? Mar 9, 2022 17:18

ASAPI: Apr 20, 2007; I invented the line.

Been seeing lots of posts/articles about a cold front moving through Ukraine.

It seems that the convoy of doom might have an issue with soldiers freezing in their vehicles.

# ? Mar 9, 2022 17:22

mlmp08: Jul 11, 2004; Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration; Nap Ghost

Detsch is tweeting the SDO updates. He�s been good, though speed tweeting is not as precise as reading comments in full later.

https://twitter.com/jackdetsch/status/1501594460521742338?s=21

https://twitter.com/jackdetsch/status/1501592906532016129?s=21

# ? Mar 9, 2022 17:28

Rude Dude With Tude: Apr 19, 2007; Your President approves this text.

Marshal Prolapse posted:

Also water is wet.

https://twitter.com/deitaone/status/1501560078658379776?s=21

Well you know it's fine it's not like anyone important said there aren't conscripts there, that'd be really embarras... oh.

https://twitter.com/hardcastIe/status/1501593836849664002

# ? Mar 9, 2022 17:33

BeastOfExmoor: Aug 19, 2003; I will be gone, but not forever.

^^ Interesting that the "forced to sign contracts" conscripts don't really allow Putin to weasel out of what he said here. Seems he was trying to reassure people that if someone you know was conscripted they're not in Ukraine right now which is completely untrue.

Churchill posted:

For more heart warming stories like that and other rather topical examples of Soviet military competence, I thoroughly reccomend listening to their 7-part series on the Soviet Afghan war. In fact, I think I'll do just that tonight.

For anyone who's interested in this, it's episodes 55-61 here: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9waW5lY2FzdC5jb20vZmVlZC9saW9ucy1sZWQtYnktZG9ua2V5cy1wb2RjYXN0 (or in whatever app you use for podcasts)

BeastOfExmoor fucked around with this message at 18:00 on Mar 9, 2022

# ? Mar 9, 2022 17:57

madeintaipei: Jul 13, 2012

psydude posted:

I was involved in several military construction projects in Afghanistan, and we were still finding the bodies of Soviet troops and working to repatriate them. We found two ourselves (both Ukrainians, actually), and the unit that we replaced found another 4.

I remember some pics from the very early part of this latest Syrian war, where non-government forces found an whole-rear end uniformed Russian in a chest freezer at a Syrian military base.

I think about that sometimes. Who was he? Did someone dress him up before or after freezing his body? hosed around in the wrong place and time?
Random casualty meant to be shipped home but the Russians entrusted his body to the Syrians? Was there a sign on their lawn saying, "Dead Russian storage?"

# ? Mar 9, 2022 17:59

Bored As Fuck: Jan 1, 2006; Fun Shoe

Churchill posted:

It was a reference to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, iirc zinc was cheap and wouldn't deteriorate like wood with the added bonus of being welded shut thus making it more difficult for the soldiers families to find out what killed to their sons or indeed if there actually was a body in there at all. I'm om my phone so I can't find a source but lions led by donkeys mentioned that the coffins would often be dumped outside the families homes without explanation or warning. So much for keeping up morale on the home front.

Pretty sure the book was called Zinky Boys

# ? Mar 9, 2022 18:07

psydude: Apr 1, 2008

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/03/09/russia-ukraine-war-news-putin-live-updates/#link-OERDCESV6NBGFIL5AB53MB372U

quote:

Putin demands prosecutors probe why order not to send conscripts to Ukraine was disobeyed, Kremlin says

A day after Russian President Vladimir Putin declared there were no Russian conscripts serving in Ukraine and none would be sent, his defense ministry admitted Wednesday that wasn’t true.

Russian defense ministry spokesman Igor Konashenkov announced that “several facts” confirming the use of conscripts in Ukraine had been found.

The revelation raises questions about how much Putin knows about other problematic aspects of the war in Ukraine, including civilian casualties, Russia’s military losses and casualties, and apparent logistical and morale problems on the Russian side.

Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said Putin had categorically ordered the military not to send conscripts into battle in Ukraine. Putin on Wednesday ordered military prosecutors to investigate who was responsible for disobeying the order, he said.

Konashenkov offered no details on how many conscripts had been sent to Ukraine or from where. He said “almost all” conscripts in Ukraine had been withdrawn to Russia.

In recent days, officials in Ukraine have posted videos of prisoners. Many said they had been on a training mission and were not told they were going to war until the last minute. There is no way to assess whether they were coerced into speaking, and Ukraine has been criticized for releasing the videos.

Konashenkov said a number of servicemen, including conscripts, had been captured in Ukraine.

“Currently, comprehensive measures are being taken to prevent the deployment of conscripts to combat areas and the release of captured military personnel,” he said.

The Russian military has been highly secretive about casualties in its military operation, announcing a week ago that 498 servicemen were killed, with no announcements made since.

A senior United States military official, Lt. Gen. Scott D. Berrier, director the Defense Intelligence Agency, told House lawmakers Tuesday that an estimated 2,000 and 4,000 Russian servicemen may have been killed.

I'm wondering what's actually prompting this. Maybe the coffins are starting to arrive, and the families receiving calls from their captured conscripts are starting to complain to the point where they can't deny it?

Seems like he's setting himself up for an offramp by scapegoating someone for "illegally expanding the special operation" beyond its intended purpose.

psydude fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Mar 9, 2022

# ? Mar 9, 2022 18:24

Churchill: Nov 27, 2007; Winston

https://mobile.twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1501593272187301892

Anecdotal, needs verifying and all that, but I'm sure those logistics will unfuck themselves any day now

# ? Mar 9, 2022 18:33

Icon Of Sin: Dec 26, 2008

Churchill posted:

https://mobile.twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1501593272187301892

Anecdotal, needs verifying and all that, but I'm sure those logistics will unfuck themselves any day now

Toss another war crime on the pile.

pillaging

# ? Mar 9, 2022 18:40

pmchem: Jan 22, 2010

psydude posted:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/03/09/russia-ukraine-war-news-putin-live-updates/#link-OERDCESV6NBGFIL5AB53MB372U

I'm wondering what's actually prompting this. Maybe the coffins are starting to arrive, and the families receiving calls from their captured conscripts are starting to complain to the point where they can't deny it?

Seems like he's setting himself up for an offramp by scapegoating someone for "illegally expanding the special operation" beyond its intended purpose.

house rep. kweisi mfume just said live on npr that intelligence briefings say russia is incinerating the bodies of their own dead servicemen in ukraine

# ? Mar 9, 2022 18:40

Herstory Begins Now: Aug 5, 2003; SOME REALLY TEDIOUS DUMB SHIT THAT SUCKS ASS TO READ ->>

Churchill posted:

https://mobile.twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1501593272187301892

Anecdotal, needs verifying and all that, but I'm sure those logistics will unfuck themselves any day now

this is old: It appears to be some ancient, colorized footage of the three stooges conducting an over-the-top cliched chicken heist

# ? Mar 9, 2022 18:41

Alan Smithee: Jan 4, 2005; A man becomes preeminent, he's expected to have enthusiasms.

Enthusiasms, enthusiasms...

psydude posted:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/03/09/russia-ukraine-war-news-putin-live-updates/#link-OERDCESV6NBGFIL5AB53MB372U

I'm wondering what's actually prompting this. Maybe the coffins are starting to arrive, and the families receiving calls from their captured conscripts are starting to complain to the point where they can't deny it?

Seems like he's setting himself up for an offramp by scapegoating someone for "illegally expanding the special operation" beyond its intended purpose.

"I am shocked. SHOCKED to find conscripts in the special operation force!"

"here are your 10,000 additional conscripts sir!"

"spasiba"

# ? Mar 9, 2022 18:43

Alan Smithee: Jan 4, 2005; A man becomes preeminent, he's expected to have enthusiasms.

Enthusiasms, enthusiasms...

Churchill posted:

https://mobile.twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1501593272187301892

Anecdotal, needs verifying and all that, but I'm sure those logistics will unfuck themselves any day now

russian twitter: "no no you see it is ukraine stealing own chicken"

# ? Mar 9, 2022 18:44

McGavin: Sep 18, 2012

Churchill posted:

https://mobile.twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1501593272187301892

Anecdotal, needs verifying and all that, but I'm sure those logistics will unfuck themselves any day now

Those chickens were Nazis.

# ? Mar 9, 2022 18:46

mlmp08: Jul 11, 2004; Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration; Nap Ghost

Icon Of Sin posted:

Toss another war crime on the pile.

pillaging

I can�t tell who is joking or not any more.

# ? Mar 9, 2022 18:47

psydude: Apr 1, 2008

pmchem posted:

house rep. kweisi mfume just said live on npr that intelligence briefings say russia is incinerating the bodies of their own dead servicemen in ukraine

No that's just the evening bread bake.

# ? Mar 9, 2022 18:50

Comrade Blyatlov: Aug 4, 2007; should have picked four fingers

McGavin posted:

Those chickens were Nazis.

The chicken was not a chicken. It was evil incarnate.

# ? Mar 9, 2022 18:53

Discussion Quorum: Dec 5, 2002; Armchair Philistine

Churchill posted:

For more heart warming stories like that and other rather topical examples of Soviet military competence, I thoroughly reccomend listening to their 7-part series on the Soviet Afghan war. In fact, I think I'll do just that tonight.

I just listened to their 2-parter on the 2008 Russo-Georgian war because uhhh it seemed topical. It's about 2.5 hours total, and for the first 2 hours you could basically edit in "Ukraine" for every mention of "Georgia." Just amazing.

Icon Of Sin posted:

Toss another war crime on the pile.

pillaging

Just imagine how bad things must be if a 21st century army is pillaging chicken coops

At least the dude attempting to loot the electronics store had a modern touch to it

# ? Mar 9, 2022 18:53