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to me, the funny thing with nuclear is that back in the 60s ontario, and other provinces to a lesser extent, decided that nuclear was a good way to meet at least part of their growing energy demand. and as a result a program to develop a reactor design that could be built with the limited heavy industry available in the country was setup. and it did design a working reactor, which was built quite a few times, and which has had, as far as i know, a pretty good safety and uptime record over the past 50 years. and which accounts for like a quarter of ontario's energy needs today somehow today that's just an impossible feat. i mean yes the country's gdp is ostensibly 10 times larger than it was back in 1980, but it's simply impossible to marshal the resources needed to do something like that. a pipe dream at best
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Mar 9, 2022 01:25
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infernal machines posted:i didn't know you were NDP I can't believe Horwath is still in charge
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Mar 9, 2022 01:30
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Oh, joy Convoy 2: Electric Boogaloo is coming to my town. https://www.cheknews.ca/large-scale-rolling-convoy-planned-for-victoria-to-protest-vaccine-mandates-971113/ quote:“We’re coming to defend your lawful freedom of choice,” said James Bauder, founder of Canada Unity and one of the organizers of Freedom Convoy 2022 to Ottawa. Lessons learned include: Ottawa is bloody cold in the winter, we should protest somewhere warmer.
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Mar 9, 2022 01:30
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skewetoo posted:I can't believe Horwath is still in charge she's gonna ride that party to the grave there's an election in a little under three months, i'm not sure anyone's told her yet
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Mar 9, 2022 01:32
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Deep Dish Fuckfest posted:to me, the funny thing with nuclear is that back in the 60s ontario, and other provinces to a lesser extent, decided that nuclear was a good way to meet at least part of their growing energy demand. and as a result a program to develop a reactor design that could be built with the limited heavy industry available in the country was setup. and it did design a working reactor, which was built quite a few times, and which has had, as far as i know, a pretty good safety and uptime record over the past 50 years. and which accounts for like a quarter of ontario's energy needs today It's sad that objectively good things will never happen if it doesn't make somebody already wealthy even more wealthy to do it.
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Mar 9, 2022 01:34
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Deep Dish Fuckfest posted:to me, the funny thing with nuclear is that back in the 60s ontario, and other provinces to a lesser extent, decided that nuclear was a good way to meet at least part of their growing energy demand. and as a result a program to develop a reactor design that could be built with the limited heavy industry available in the country was setup. and it did design a working reactor, which was built quite a few times, and which has had, as far as i know, a pretty good safety and uptime record over the past 50 years. and which accounts for like a quarter of ontario's energy needs today the problem is that in between then and now we decided that the state isn't allowed to do stuff anymore, and the private sector isn't interested in building nuclear
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Mar 9, 2022 01:37
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Killin_Like_Bronson posted:It's sad that objectively good things will never happen if it doesn't make somebody already wealthy even more wealthy to do it. it's not even that; it won't happen if it doesn't make someone as wealthier as they could possibly be doing any equivalent thing. it's not good enough that number goes up. number must go up as fast as possible, and ideally how fast number goes up should also go up as fast as possible, and so on. the cult of the market demands it
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Mar 9, 2022 01:42
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Deep Dish Fuckfest posted:to me, the funny thing with nuclear is that back in the 60s ontario, and other provinces to a lesser extent, decided that nuclear was a good way to meet at least part of their growing energy demand. and as a result a program to develop a reactor design that could be built with the limited heavy industry available in the country was setup. and it did design a working reactor, which was built quite a few times, and which has had, as far as i know, a pretty good safety and uptime record over the past 50 years. and which accounts for like a quarter of ontario's energy needs today The goal of the next nukes in Ontario is to build them smaller and more automated. Less upfront capital cost (only after they start mass production) and less maintenance cost (fewer jobs lol). You know they'll actually build them because they generate less jobs than before.
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Mar 9, 2022 02:02
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where's all that nuclear waste going? right now it's just sitting in containers on the surface while we wait for some town in the Shield to be dumb enough to host a deep geological repository.
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Mar 9, 2022 02:02
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Karach posted:where's all that nuclear waste going? right now it's just sitting in containers on the surface while we wait for some town in the Shield to be dumb enough to host a deep geological repository. Worldwide I think lots of places are just storing it on site at the reactor? No need to drive it around to places, the reactor sites already have security and stuff.
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Mar 9, 2022 02:05
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Karach posted:where's all that nuclear waste going? right now it's just sitting in containers on the surface while we wait for some town in the Shield to be dumb enough to host a deep geological repository. just pour it in the ocean like we do with everything else
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Mar 9, 2022 02:13
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Facebook Aunt posted:Worldwide I think lots of places are just storing it on site at the reactor? No need to drive it around to places, the reactor sites already have security and stuff. NWMO is already implementing the Adaptive Phased Management plan. The problem is they can't actually find a site willing to host the geological repository. The existing containers in the surface storage system only last 50 years and the fuel has to be moved into new containers whenever the old ones are worn out, which seems pretty problematic if nuclear is adopted on a wide scale across Canada.
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Mar 9, 2022 02:18
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aren't there plenty of native reserves up north?
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Mar 9, 2022 02:24
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Another Bill posted:Let's be honest too: Living in Canada you're already incredibly privileged and wealthy, the worst effects of climate change will not be visited upon us. don't mind me just quoting this so i can find it later when it has ripened like a fine milk
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Mar 9, 2022 02:28
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Karach posted:where's all that nuclear waste going? right now it's just sitting in containers on the surface while we wait for some town in the Shield to be dumb enough to host a deep geological repository. We're either going to crack fusion and burn the waste up in plasma furnaces, or society will collapse and future people will just stay away from the Cursed Lands (old storage sites).
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Mar 9, 2022 02:40
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blatman posted:don't mind me just quoting this so i can find it later when it has ripened like a fine milk
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Mar 9, 2022 02:40
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skewetoo posted:Better things are not possible If I work hard enough I might be able to afford some nice stuff tbh (not a house though lol)
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Mar 9, 2022 02:42
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Isizzlehorn posted:We're either going to crack fusion and burn the waste up in plasma furnaces, or society will collapse and future people will just stay away from the Cursed Lands (old storage sites). "avoid these caves kids, you'll die in 30 years. Now lets drink our heavy-metal tainted waters and watch the lake set on fire as the sun sets behind the mountains that got exploded"
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Mar 9, 2022 03:03
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e: nm
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Mar 9, 2022 03:09
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yeah, i gotta say with the way things are going, dealing with nuclear waste doesn't seem like as much of an insurmountable problem as, say, not making the entire planet uninhabitable thanks to climate change i'm also not sure what proportion of the waste generated by typical nuclear plants is actually fissile materials (eg, plutonium) that could be used as fuel. ideally you'd reprocess the waste to get that stuff, but there's the whole "nuclear proliferation" concern that makes this a touchy subject. kind of a shame; the best case scenario would be being able to burn all the low-level and mid-level radioactive isotopes as fuel, and turn as much of it into the super radioactive isotopes, because that means they decay really fast and you don't have to worry about storing them for nearly as long as other stuff
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Mar 9, 2022 03:12
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if nuclear power was discovered a hundred years previous to when it was historically everyone would be burning all their waste and it would be better than burning coal and poo poo
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Mar 9, 2022 03:40
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Facebook Aunt posted:Oh, joy Convoy 2: Electric Boogaloo is coming to my town. I don't think this dude can organize his way out of a wet paper bag TBH. I'll be shocked if this one ends up with anything more than slightly more honking downtown during Saturday's scheduled downtown honk fest.
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Mar 9, 2022 04:31
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just put the nuclear waste on the moon so when it inevitably explodes you give les landau something to do
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Mar 9, 2022 04:32
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jsoh posted:if nuclear power was discovered a hundred years previous to when it was historically everyone would be burning all their waste and it would be better than burning coal and poo poo had the same thought. see also: air travel
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Mar 9, 2022 04:43
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vyelkin posted:You don't have to be cynical to post here and I admire you for wanting to push the Green Party in a better direction. I think it is a larger fight than just who their leader is, because the impression I have formed of the Green Party is that it fundamentally exists for people who care about the environment but also want nothing to change in their current lives. They don't want to take the bus instead of driving or live in an apartment building instead of a suburb, which is why it's the Teslas and solar panels party, not the nuclear power and degrowth party. I think electing an ecosocialist leader is more likely to destroy the party than to refashion it as an anticapitalist one because the majority of its supporters would just go vote Liberal instead if the Greens started criticizing capitalism, and that is why I personally use my limited amount of time and political power to try and push the NDP left rather than to do any kind of entryism in the Green Party, because I think the NDP's history of being at least open to anticapitalist ideas makes it more likely (read: still not very likely!) to become an anticapitalist party than the Green Liberals. The (federal) Green Party has all kinds of supporters with inconsistent views on basically every major issue - and for that matter, they barely vet their candidates, so the same can be said of them. There are Tesla Tories and hippies and anti-vaxxers and incoherent contrarians and ???, so I think they could continue to exist (and be irrelevant) with an ecosocialist leader. The argument for 'taking over' the Green Party is that it's a lot easier to do then trying to push the NDP in any direction. The official platform is member-determined, fairly easy to amend, and most leaders respect it in campaigns, occasionally omitting the parts they don't like rather than outright contradicting them. Pretty much any old idiot can become a candidate, as I know two personally (looking at you, my unnamed goon BFF), and don't have much of a smoky backroom. The most compelling argument, however, is that taking over the Greens from the left would also push the NDP in that direction, allowing for an eventual merger. This would be a great opportunity to change the NDP's stale name and return, at the least, social democracy to the party constitution. Most importantly, the party branding could change to orange, green and white, guaranteeing support from the crucial Irish, Indian, Nigerian and Cote d'Ivoire-ian nationalist constituencies.
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Mar 9, 2022 06:34
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bump
Futanari Damacy has issued a correction as of 14:16 on Oct 29, 2022 |
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Mar 9, 2022 09:23
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there's like a billion chemical compounds that cause birth defects, including nearly every component of gasoline. its possible to handle dangerous materials safely and you are being a idiot about this one
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Mar 9, 2022 10:54
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Deep Dish Fuckfest posted:to me, the funny thing with nuclear is that back in the 60s ontario, and other provinces to a lesser extent, decided that nuclear was a good way to meet at least part of their growing energy demand. and as a result a program to develop a reactor design that could be built with the limited heavy industry available in the country was setup. and it did design a working reactor, which was built quite a few times, and which has had, as far as i know, a pretty good safety and uptime record over the past 50 years. and which accounts for like a quarter of ontario's energy needs today We have a SMR program but that's not anywhere on the scale of CANDU
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Mar 9, 2022 12:45
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Futanari Damacy posted:I hope if any of you saw even one depleted uranium baby you'd say "yeah gently caress this" and not go well actually it's not that dangerous you turned out just fine
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Mar 9, 2022 14:21
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jsoh posted:there's like a billion chemical compounds that cause birth defects, including nearly every component of gasoline. its possible to handle dangerous materials safely and you are being a idiot about this one a new study found half of American adults have lead levels in their bodies high enough to cause developmental problems. The problem is that our existing economic system is extremely cavalier with our regulation of all pollutants that cause harm to human beings and other animals, not anything specific to nuclear waste in particular. It's also particularly frustrating because we have proven in certain cases that we know how to build things safely. Look, for instance, at the flood control systems built to protect London and the Netherlands, which are overengineered to have failsafe after failsafe because if they were to ever fail it would be catastrophic. We know how to build things safely, it's just expensive, so anywhere that we don't allocate enough resources because we don't see it as a priority, or anywhere that we contract in the free market but don't have extensive oversight to prevent it from cutting corners, we end up with shoddy and potentially dangerous work. This isn't an engineering problem, it's a human problem relating to how our economic system encourages cutting corners and faking results and passing the buck to the next person.
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Mar 9, 2022 14:32
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eXXon posted:The (federal) Green Party has all kinds of supporters with inconsistent views on basically every major issue - and for that matter, they barely vet their candidates, so the same can be said of them. There are Tesla Tories and hippies and anti-vaxxers and incoherent contrarians and ???, so I think they could continue to exist (and be irrelevant) with an ecosocialist leader. imo the difficulty with them not being a party in any traditional sense of shared vision is that there's no real indication that they'd survive having more than a handful of MPs elected. and if everyone is just doing their own thing and can't really be held to vote in any particular direction, how is it functionally different than having those MPs all sitting as independents?
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Mar 9, 2022 14:37
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vyelkin posted:
This is my major problem to be honest. Without strong regulatory overseers and with regulatory capture normally safe heavy industry can become very dangerous. Say remember how the NB government suddenly tried to shut down every single investigation into the mystery brain disease when people started hinting it might have to do with cyanobacteria created by fishing waste
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Mar 9, 2022 14:48
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bump
Futanari Damacy has issued a correction as of 14:16 on Oct 29, 2022 |
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Mar 9, 2022 15:00
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vyelkin posted:a new study found half of American adults have lead levels in their bodies high enough to cause developmental problems. The problem is that our existing economic system is extremely cavalier with our regulation of all pollutants that cause harm to human beings and other animals, not anything specific to nuclear waste in particular. Anecdote but, the government of city I live in in Ontario concluded relatively recently that they "don't know" what percentage of the pipes in our water system are straight up just made of lead, and when asked if the government had any plans of further identifying and/or possibly replacing them for obvious reasons, they responded with "that would cost a lot of money so probably not."
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Mar 9, 2022 15:13
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 these antivax protests are getting ridiculous
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Mar 9, 2022 15:43
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jsoh posted:if nuclear power was discovered a hundred years previous to when it was historically everyone would be burning all their waste and it would be better than burning coal and poo poo Maybe, but science and technology aren't separate from society. What gets funding, interest and seems feasible is not just a result of some platonic ideal of pure knowledge. Research, and dominant technological forms are dependent on the social relations of society. And once a technology is entrenched, there's a group with a strong incentive to defend it's position. Does nuclear power provide any benefit to capital over oil and gas? Does it have lower labour costs? Bigger markets? Easier to monopolize? Timing does have an impact on technological adoption, since an earlier technology will have a capital group behind it with the incentive to protect their position. For instance, oil companies bought exploration rights for areas with uranium, and then slow walked them to prevent development. (Oil companies did the same with oil reserves, to ensure supply didn't swamp demand, and also to gently caress over uncooperative colonial states). But there are examples of superior, more developed technologies being overtaken by less developed technologies which can't yet match in efficiency etc. Water power was smoother, had greater power output, broke down less, was cheaper than coal during much of the industrial revolution. But you had to bring workers to the water which generally meant rural areas. That was fine when you could use orphans, inmates and work them 16 hour days. But once union organizing made that difficult, labour costs became a greater concern than energy and encouraged wide scale adoption of coal. Better to have a plant in a city with a large labour force than to pay premiums to encourage people to move to your country plant. There was also research into further development of water power by building canals, pumping systems etc. But these required lots of cooperation, either between capitalists or with the government. And nobody could easily profit of off water, unlike coal mining. So despite being a better technology at the time, there were few incentives to further develop water power technologies, within the logic of capitalist production. Development of coal power had lots of incentives on the other hand, and therefore had lots of funding and attention.
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Mar 9, 2022 15:49
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Masks coming off in Ontario. Literally not just only figuratively anymore.
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Mar 9, 2022 16:02
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Edmonton still got a mask mandate, came in from Fort McMurray to get a bedframe and Costco and it's nice to be among masked folk again
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Mar 9, 2022 16:43
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skewetoo posted:Masks coming off in Ontario. Literally not just only figuratively anymore. At least they're keeping them on public transit, I was kinda hoping they'd keep them for essential retail too. The whole song and dance with the mask at restaurants is a joke though and I'm glad it's going away.
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Mar 9, 2022 18:58
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I mean I'd still like people who are getting takeout to have masks on but for anyone dining in it was a farce to begin with.
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Mar 9, 2022 20:30
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