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re: some of the Moira discussion above, Paul O'Brien has a typically excellent, if belated, review of Inferno that points at a plausible explanation for one of the series' bigger flaws, namely that the reveal of Moira's ultimate plan isn't particularly clear. Basically, COVID may have hosed everything up.quote:Does the Moira reveal work, though? A big part of the problem is that it’s never really clear exactly what’s being revealed. It’s rather tiptoed around. Reading between the lines, the suggestion seems to be that she was going to get all the mutants together on Krakoa and generously let them live out their days in paradise while quietly drugging the world with Krakoan medicines to get rid of future generations of mutants. This always seemed like a possible direction, given that we knew as early as House of X #2 that (1) Moira had developed a cure for mutant powers in an earlier life, and (2) Krakoan drugs were very, very emphatically for humans only.
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Mar 7, 2022 16:37
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Yeah, the idea that Krakoan drugs are making humans "sterile" to having mutant children is not something I gleaned from anything on the page. But to be fair: it is very confusing what the gently caress the Moira twist was about and so any dot-connecting is probably as good as anything else.
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Mar 7, 2022 17:29
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And a small quip on Lives/Deaths of Wolvie... It's very weird to me that one of the things set up at the end of Inferno is Moira's Warlock Arm and she gets rid of that like 5 minutes after getting away from Krakoa. Why set that up at all if her solution is "welp just gonna cut off this arm too! i'll get another cyborg arm later!"
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Mar 7, 2022 17:38
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Maybe it was just to show Doug's kindness in that moment. But I seriously doubt that's the reason. Moira asked Doug was this so Krakoa could track her. Even though Doug said no, Moira is paranoid enough of it in the first issue of Deaths that she chopped it off. While I was hoping she would keep the warlock arm I can see why they ditched it so quickly. Also, can't remember but did she get rid of it before Phalanx-Logab was tracking her?
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Mar 7, 2022 17:47
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I get the in-story reason for her to lose it... It's just dumb to have it be a setup coming out of your last major story only to ditch it a month later at the beginning of your next major story. What's the point of setting it up if you weren't going to use it?
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Mar 7, 2022 18:10
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another example of how ruthless this Moira is, she chopped off her own arm rather than risk having a prosthetic that could be used to track her.
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Mar 7, 2022 22:31
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I think Moira's arm is a cool way to show different character perspectives; Mystique is ruthless and calculating so she chops Moira's arm off to play with Xavier and Magneto, Doug is kind even to people who may harm him, so he gives Moira a Warlock arm; Moira is also ruthless, desperate and paranoid, so she chops the arm off again. It works on that level enough, that I don't mind that it's not setup for further plots.
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Mar 8, 2022 13:10
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radlum posted:I think Moira's arm is a cool way to show different character perspectives; Mystique is ruthless and calculating so she chops Moira's arm off to play with Xavier and Magneto, Doug is kind even to people who may harm him, so he gives Moira a Warlock arm; Moira is also ruthless, desperate and paranoid, so she chops the arm off again.
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Mar 8, 2022 18:55
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The newest X Deaths of Wolverine kind of gives some logic to Moira heel turn. F you guys. I lived X lives trying to save Mutants and now you get your own land/culture and you gently caress me over.
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Mar 9, 2022 15:26
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Nessus posted:It also makes Doug "Best Friends With An Alien Nanomachine Guy And Also Married A Large Resident of a Pocket Dimension Wife" Ramsey out to be the least deranged and vicious person in the room. looking forward to getting more Bei
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Mar 9, 2022 16:08
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 Moria's reunion with Banshee sure is something.Still I hope that she won't bite it in the end. Would feel like a waste to kill her and leave her character like that.
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Mar 9, 2022 18:46
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Njashi9 posted:
Yeah, X Lives and X Deaths is a lot. In Sabretooth news, I wonder how Third Eye managed to break Krakoa's first law. Are condoms a pit-worthy offense?
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Mar 10, 2022 00:07
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Chinston Wurchill posted:Yeah, X Lives and X Deaths is a lot.
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Mar 10, 2022 01:28
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x lives is pretty boring apart from wolverine boning omega
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Mar 10, 2022 01:58
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If a mutant who isn't Moira gets hit with Forge's depowering gun and they die they can just be rezzed back to normal right?
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Mar 10, 2022 03:39
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Synesthesian Fetish posted:If a mutant who isn't Moira gets hit with Forge's depowering gun and they die they can just be rezzed back to normal right? Yeah.
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Mar 10, 2022 03:44
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It's weird how four issues each in X Lives and X Deaths are still two halves of one story but X Lives is just outright dire while X Deaths has some fun stuff each issue
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Mar 10, 2022 03:53
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Synesthesian Fetish posted:If a mutant who isn't Moira gets hit with Forge's depowering gun and they die they can just be rezzed back to normal right? Moira, we knew you were coming back to try and restore your powers. Okay... But then why did you not only leave the mutant depowering guns intact, but fully loaded and unattended? Im starting to think Xavier is bad at planning.
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Mar 10, 2022 18:39
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Mameluke posted:It's weird how four issues each in X Lives and X Deaths are still two halves of one story but X Lives is just outright dire while X Deaths has some fun stuff each issue It is because x deaths has a story. X lives suffers from the fact that its story is basically a serious version of a Rick and Morty sketch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvxRnNucaeo
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Mar 10, 2022 18:41
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Am I to believe that the first page of this week's X Lives implies that Wolverine had Venom in his blood during the Weapon X experiment? Did Donnie Cates write this bullshit?
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Mar 11, 2022 00:07
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danbanana posted:Am I to believe that the first page of this week's X Lives implies that Wolverine had Venom in his blood during the Weapon X experiment? Later in the issue they note that it comes from Web of Venom: Ve'nam #1, which yes was written by Donny Cates, but I don't remember that one shot at all.
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Mar 11, 2022 00:10
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danbanana posted:Am I to believe that the first page of this week's X Lives implies that Wolverine had Venom in his blood during the Weapon X experiment? Web of venom, Ve'nam is wack poo poo. Nick Fury needs a supersoldier, they find the grendel symbiote in scandanavia and he shoves bits of it onto five guys then sends them into Vietnam as special forces. Shockingly this does not go as planned. As a result he calls in Wolverine and sends him into Vietnam in order to hunt down the soldiers before things get more out of hand. Wolverine gets infected at some point in the comic, then gets it burned off him. I think the running theory is that he has some leftover in him when he is getting studied.
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Mar 11, 2022 00:19
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Caros posted:Web of venom, Ve'nam is wack poo poo. OK... The end of this issue of X Lives seems to imply that Cornelius was originally going to weaponize the symbiote in Logan and only did the adamantium thing after that went bad. Which sucks. Also, does this shift the Weapon X thing to the 70s, since it is post-American involvement in Vietnam? Was that previously the case?
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Mar 11, 2022 00:26
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Wait is it actually Vietnam or that fake war Mark Waid invented in Complete History of the Marvel Universe to detach characters with Vietnam War origins like Punisher and Iron-Man from the actual Vietnam War?
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Mar 11, 2022 00:55
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danbanana posted:OK... The end of this issue of X Lives seems to imply that Cornelius was originally going to weaponize the symbiote in Logan and only did the adamantium thing after that went bad. Skwirl posted:Wait is it actually Vietnam or that fake war Mark Waid invented in Complete History of the Marvel Universe to detach characters with Vietnam War origins like Punisher and Iron-Man from the actual Vietnam War?
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Mar 11, 2022 01:02
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Endless Mike posted:Having just now read a synopsis of Web of Venom: Ve'Nam and not the comic (someone correct me) it seems that took place before he was in Weapon X and we know he ends up in the covert ops team with Sabertooth and Maverick before he ends up in Weapon X, as well, so no, I don't think this places Weapon X in the 70s, really, since the implication is he had the symbiote hanging out in his blood for awhile. So are you saying that Weapon X takes place even later? Sliding timescale and all that but I always got the impression that Wolverine got the adamantium in the mid-20th century. But I guess the Black Ops stuff fits in awkwardly then, even when it was introduced in the 90s...
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Mar 11, 2022 02:40
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danbanana posted:So are you saying that Weapon X takes place even later? Even more than the Joker, Wolverine's origin makes more sense as multiple choice.
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Mar 11, 2022 02:49
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Skwirl posted:Even more than the Joker, Wolverine's origin makes more sense as multiple choice. But there's THREE Jokers and only... *counts* Whoa.
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Mar 11, 2022 03:37
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I've always adored this exchange about this story  https://twitter.com/CerebroCast/status/1502107736544362505
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Mar 11, 2022 03:48
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BrianWilly posted:I've always adored this exchange about this story this is great the new cerebro episode about sabertooth has the sabertooth writer on to discuss it and it's a very interesting interview
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Mar 11, 2022 03:56
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Based at least on X Lives of Wolverine, the titular "Ten Lives" are, in chronological order: Logan I - "1900, Northern Canada" - Teenage Logan saves "Captain Benedict Xavier", an unspecified ancestor of Charles, probably his grandfather but maybe they're trying to give themselves leeway Logan II - "American West" - Only shows up in a montage and data page Logan III - "World War I France" - Only shows up in a montage and data page Logan IV - "1945 Japan", Charles's father Brian Xavier is a Lieutenant in the US Military Logan V - "Many Years Ago ("WWII in the Rearview") - Logan is in Japan with Itsu, who is pregnant with Daken Logan VI - [????] Westchester NY, Charles Xavier's birth Logan VII - "Many Years Ago", Columbia - Team X Logan (with bone claws), Wheelchair bound adult Charles Xavier is giving a speech about saving the rainforests Logan VIII - "Many Years Ago" - Logan is being experimented on by Weapon X Logan IX - "Middle East" - Wolverine has his first appearance looking yellow and blue costume, has only shown up in a montage/data page Logan X - Present Day Wolverine on Krakoa In terms of sliding timescale, obviously things like "1900" and the World Wars are fixed in time, and Daken was previously established as being born in 1946 in Wolverine: Origins and that seems to have stuck in later comics.. Even if you cram Logans 4-6 into a very tight space, it means Charles was born after World War II, which works well enough if you assume Magneto (in their respective first bodies) is 10-15 years older than Charles, since with each retelling Magneto's time in Auschwitz has been dialed back from "full grown adult" to "teenager" to "youth". Then you can lump Logans 7-9 into whatever sliding timescale you want, though the recent History of the Marvel Universe mini-series (the source of the Sian Cong retcon) does throw some actual dates/mile markers into the mix: not actually directly relevant to the above posted:Destiny and Mystique were adult lovers prior to the outbreak of World War I, which makes them at least 120 years old, which makes them the oldest mentioned mutants besides Selene (dawn of humanity), Apocalypse (about 5000 years ago), Mutants next pop up when the book establishes the Team X --> Weapon X Experiment --> Escape Into the Wilderness period of Wolverine's life all took place before the Siang-Cong conflict started, with specific dates added in the back: 1961: "Logan joined the black ops Team X as Wolverine... Logan served on Team X until 1968. At some point, Logan was captured by the Weapon X program." From there, everything proceeds pretty much in the order it happened in the publication history of the comics with no real references to real-world time. Web of Ve'Nam explicitly establishes that whole business with Wolverine fighting the Knullified US Soldiers With Bits of The Historical Grendel Monster from Beowulf In Them as taking place in 1966, so it would have been smack in the middle of his Team X days, but before Weapon X.
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Mar 11, 2022 04:17
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danbanana posted:So are you saying that Weapon X takes place even later? Edit: of course E&C has a much better post than me.
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Mar 11, 2022 04:25
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I wish someone told me I could have just skipped the entirety of X Lives. I guess it has pretty art?
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Mar 11, 2022 15:50
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BrianWilly posted:I've always adored this exchange about this story I got a hearty laugh out of this.
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Mar 11, 2022 20:15
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JordanKai posted:I got a hearty laugh out of this. Cerebrocast is good.
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Mar 11, 2022 21:51
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I'm so far behind on it, like months and months because the episodes are just too long.
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Mar 11, 2022 21:53
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Thanks to my long commutes, I'm almost caught up with Cerebro, and it's been a delight. Probably going to check out Jay & Miles while waiting on new episodes.
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Mar 11, 2022 22:02
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I listen to them during cardio so I like that they're pretty long. I am way behind though.
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Mar 11, 2022 22:03
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Yeah they are long, I remember listening to an early episode and the host was apologizing for going so long and looking through the rest I think that episode was the last one that was less than 2 hours.
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Mar 11, 2022 22:49
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I only listen to the episodes that interest me either because of the character or the guest (sup, Spencer Ackerman!) and I don't think I've ever finished an episode but I enjoy my time immensely when I listen. I cackled while raking leaves, listening to Conner and his guest talked Selene.
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Mar 12, 2022 01:50
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