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Onmi posted:Since there's way too much to respond to, I do build garrisons in every city I own. Unfortunately, we now move into problem two. The Kislev Garrisons suck poo poo. I don't know which person decided I needed three Kossar Dervishes, but I would very much like to smack them. I should also clarify this isn't a case of "I can't win these battles." I absolutely can. It's that the AI will be a pain in the rear end endlessly but not a threat, because as others have said they have perfect calculations and you can't run them down. If you could engage armies in force march but ONLY if those armies are also in Force March you'd be able to sort it out easily. I pretty much agree with all of this but at this point your best option, rather annoyingly is going to be "Wait for one of those mods that just doesn't let the AI forced march in your territory and for CA to fix Supply Lines" or something along those lines. Vagabong posted:Just make the A.I less skittish about auto-resolve. They did this in 3K and it was a massive improvement! It's so crazy how there's so many issues I have with TW that were apparently fixed in 3K. I really should just try it at some point.
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Mar 11, 2022 11:42
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3K is just a really good game. Play it on normal to start with first, or you'll never get to advance your guys in shield wall "lol gently caress archers" formations effectively. The ai notices immediately and just moves up to shoot your archers instead on harder modes.
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Mar 11, 2022 12:00
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dogstile posted:3K is just a really good game. I haven't played this since around launch, but I've heard they "abandoned" 3K. Has that had any impact on playability or stability? Or is it just a "no more DLCs" kinda thing?
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Mar 11, 2022 13:08
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Deketh posted:I haven't played this since around launch, but I've heard they "abandoned" 3K. Has that had any impact on playability or stability? Or is it just a "no more DLCs" kinda thing? Just no more DLC's. The game as left is very good, albeit Cao Cao was left kind of overpowered. Which is appropriate I guess 
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Mar 11, 2022 13:20
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Yeah, Cao Cao's special mechanics is broken beyond belief.
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Mar 11, 2022 14:05
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Gonkish posted:Caravan is one of the coolest additions that they made to the game. I can't wait to see if they let you recruit, say, Knights Errant or some other mercs into them. The big map has such enormous possibilities. You already do get occasional chances to recruit random mercenaries or heroes into a caravan, it's pretty nice. Anyway recently I find myself pretty frustrated by Cathay. Their walled city siege offers a path to attackers that isn't covered by any towers and leads straight to the two important control points. Getting a little tired of getting stomped on at the great wall by double chaos stacks.
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Mar 11, 2022 15:02
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Vagabong posted:Just make the A.I less skittish about auto-resolve. They did this in 3K and it was a massive improvement! Chucat posted:It's been a thing that's been in these games pretty much since Rome 2/Attila.
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Mar 11, 2022 15:17
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Eschatos posted:Anyway recently I find myself pretty frustrated by Cathay. Their walled city siege offers a path to attackers that isn't covered by any towers and leads straight to the two important control points. Getting a little tired of getting stomped on at the great wall by double chaos stacks. Just chuck a unit of spears there, by the time they've breached the walls you can turn your archers around and they'll just obliterate whatever is going up there. The only important control point is the cap point, everything else is secondary but i've never lost a great wall battle, even if i've just got the garrison stack. Build the +supplies and +ammo building and you'll hold against everything. Failing that, chuck an army in there. The reduced upkeep makes it basically free and once you start hitting the warbands, it's probably profitable.
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Mar 11, 2022 15:23
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3K's recruitment and redeployment systems made losing a stack much less ruinous. So yeah it absolutely was better about having the AI pick fights, but I'm wondering if in an alternate more aggro Warhams universe we're complaining about stacks like this in midgame
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Mar 11, 2022 15:38
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The Chad Jihad posted:3K's recruitment and redeployment systems made losing a stack much less ruinous. So yeah it absolutely was better about having the AI pick fights, but I'm wondering if in an alternate more aggro Warhams universe we're complaining about stacks like this in midgame
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Mar 11, 2022 15:46
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The Chad Jihad posted:3K's recruitment and redeployment systems made losing a stack much less ruinous. So yeah it absolutely was better about having the AI pick fights, but I'm wondering if in an alternate more aggro Warhams universe we're complaining about stacks like this in midgame If that was a high level Grom leading the army, the goblins were of higher rank, there were more missile units, and maybe a handful of higher tier monster/artillery units were included that stack wouldn't be THAT bad.
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Mar 11, 2022 16:13
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One thing some overhaul mods added (which is in stock factions but not the ones that NEED it) is roads. Roads building chains would add bonus movement to armies that started their turn in the province. It would affect the whole province and give a grab bag of other things - not big boosts but you factor that it will stack up to 4x. For Kislev they have the perfect building for this - hallowed woods. Right now it gives bonus farm income, extra ambush chance, and replenishment I think. Just make the research that reduces their construction cost also give +2/4/6% map movement as well. So in an oblast you could potentially have +24% movement, a commandment giving the enemy -20% movement, and extra ambush chance. This massively increases the 'threat range' of your armies.
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Mar 11, 2022 16:57
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Panfilo posted:One thing some overhaul mods added (which is in stock factions but not the ones that NEED it) is roads. Roads building chains would add bonus movement to armies that started their turn in the province. It would affect the whole province and give a grab bag of other things - not big boosts but you factor that it will stack up to 4x. I like this idea. Right now I only build 1 per oblast and stick it in with the farms. I wouldn't mind a reason to build more. But I also have to assume it represents cult worship, not organized Orthodoxy worship, with the way it gives devotees but not supporters and Kostaltyn has a skill that makes them cost 4 times as much to build in return for other pro-orthodoxy buffs. Maybe that gets expanded on in the inevitable Ungol DLC? E: as Katarin I have zero reason to build the +control building. All of your control issues come from corruption so you mostly just spam churches everywhere. They could do something with them and the Akshina slowing down enemies even more too. Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Mar 11, 2022 |
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Mar 11, 2022 17:07
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Honestly I think things like roads and growth and walls should be removed and never return. They are all so beneficial that they are basically required, so you actually remove meaningful choices by having them. 3k limiting growth by having big buildings take large # of turns was the right way to go. Growth exists to make tiering up cities for high level troops and buildings take time, but you can do the same thing with just turns required to build. Then you cut out all the priddly crap like +10 growth buildings or upgrades which are not exciting. It’s the same concept with character ranks. 30 levels of minuscule +4% stats doesn’t feel important. 3ks system of 10 levels where every level mattered was a big improvement. Then you don’t need to build a huge skill tree padded with rinky dink upgrades, but a lower number of more important ones. I don’t expect any of this to actually change in Warhammer, but man, there were so many great design decisions in 3k it really makes going back to Warhammer tough. If only they could port the expanded multiplayer campaign features to 3k.
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Mar 11, 2022 17:08
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Yeah removing growth buildings would be great, as long as it's not just an across the board nerf to growth. But who'd be crazy enough to do that?
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Mar 11, 2022 17:13
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3k was the rare TW game that launched in an amazing state then got shakier over time with DLCs
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Mar 11, 2022 17:15
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dogstile posted:Just chuck a unit of spears there, by the time they've breached the walls you can turn your archers around and they'll just obliterate whatever is going up there. Yeah actually the great wall battles are the exception, that siege map is more reasonable. However I mostly ignored the great wall for 50 turns and left them at T3, which turned out to be a mistake. Got two of them razed and the armies pouring through and loving up other settlements is the real problem, especially since I'm dealing with Snikch and Greasus at the same time while Miao Ying is off in Slaanesh's realm. Just had my capital razed right after I'd filled it with T5 buildings lol.
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Mar 11, 2022 17:20
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Sinteres posted:Yeah removing growth buildings would be great, as long as it's not just an across the board nerf to growth. But who'd be crazy enough to do that? Though keep in mind there are no recruitment buildings. Recruiting new units is 99% locked behind tech and/or general level, no buildings required. There are 1 or 2 exceptions to this where certain buildings unlock the recruitment of a specific faction-unique unit for those specific factions. As a map nerd that enjoys the strategic layer of building an empire, I absolutely love the 3K city management. It could of course use a few tweaks but overall the three different ways to earn money from a city are fairly balanced, the way garrisons work is interesting and sensible, and non-econ buildings are pretty cool to the point that I spent more time than I'd like to admit agonizing over building a School, a Forge, or a Conscription Center (or something like that). edit: so no I'm not saying I think it would work in Warhammer without major changes, I'm just saying its nice and I'm sure CA could do something if they wanted. They experimented with it a little bit with the Wood Elves update - the Major Tree main building upgrade simply costs lost of cash, no growth. You needed growth for econ and wizard buildings, if I remember correctly? AAAAA! Real Muenster fucked around with this message at 17:30 on Mar 11, 2022 |
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Mar 11, 2022 17:27
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First of all the fact that Khorne cannot make roads of skulls(or bones, if the skulls must go to the thrones) is an obvious omission. Keeping in the current must-haves and adding more would actually balance itself out. Right now I can argue for the use of garrisons/walls, +trade, +income, +growth, +replenishment, +control/-corruption and some other important side buildings like +meat on Ogres or balancing harmony. There's also some viability at times for having recruitment buildings though they become secondary with enough experience or are concentrated in majors entirely. Adding +roads would continue giving you more choices then you have slots in minors, keeping it a meaningful choice. I also like how Ogres have two garrison buildings and you can stack them. Really I'd always rather have too many good choices then a bunch of mediocre ones. There will always be a meta pick that anyone with enough experience in the game picks up on and always differences in opinion and needs in what you actually build because it addresses your wants and needs. Roads are also an interesting case of self balance in that they're next to useless in your heartland if it is safely buffered. You can build roads to provide movement in contested zones and replace them when things are under control. I think city building doesn't need to be too complex but if it makes me consider my options past "wall, +growth, +income" then it is a win. My first Ogre province I used +meat buildings to get the lads a good starting buffer as I fought newbie enemies and got to good positions for my first two camps. Once the province was secure I demolished the meat and got an economy province going. Repeat for new provinces as I move out. I decided to try Greasus Domination because I am determined to throw reason to the wind. I locked down the Ivory Road starting province and then went hard south to take the Thunderguts coastland, pop into Khorne's realm to decapitate Skarbrand and immediately left without explaining myself like a true big gut Chad. I needed to act fast to destroy the Lizardmen holdouts and lockdown the province, pacifying both Dragon LLs, any extra Cathay sub factions, my neighboring Ogres that survived my starting rage, and even broker peace with the Darkland Orcs.. before I start devouring the southern mountains, obliterating the Moon Howlers and setting my sights on some appealing Dwarf-flesh. Ogres are an insanely feel good faction once you get accustomed to them. I was also surprised by Greasus' limited but potent niche usefulness. The community has (rightly) determined that he is an awkward combat slouch in most cases, overshadowed by a leveled Tyrant. What impressed me is that in Greasus one niche use he is a quite swole: fighting Large. My man actually defeated Skarbrand 1vMostly1 with an assist from poison via the Hunter and some adjacent My Army but mostly they traded blows and with the Scepter of the Titans steroid my dude the Overtyrant won. This is very good in my eyes because one of the biggest dangers to me in this game is Skarbrand. His faction scales absurdly well and his doomstack can actually derail and end your game and your "just ambush them at the Forge" shenanigans. He can chunk non-combat twinked heroes and lords in 2-3 hits. He is a Big Deal and I love him because it's something I have to wake up and pay attention to the entire game. Very thematic for lore nerds and very engaging for gameplay nerds. This is also very good to me because that fight was weighted against me winning it and not even in a "lol AR" way so getting that earlier banish on more units swung the tide as my boys took and gave heavy casualties. The free super trade income is not bad either. Meat/10, will play again in IE, please CA do not sleep on only having 2 Ogre LLs.
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Mar 11, 2022 17:29
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Doomykins posted:Meat/10, will play again in IE, please CA do not sleep on only having 2 Ogre LLs.
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Mar 11, 2022 17:33
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Golgfag Maneater(didn't he get a name update? Doesn't come up on a casual googling) is the most famous Ogre mercenary of the modern era, so infamous that Maneater is the commonly known term. Real easy excuse to put an Ogre LL literally anywhere on the map and spin up a bunch of flavored mechanics for being opportunistic, traveling, using Maneaters/shooters in your army, etc. Bragg the Gutsman isn't a good choice to lead ogres lore-wise but it's nothing a touch up or hand wave can't fix. Hell, it's not like Skragg is an enlightened statesman to begin with. There are dozens of tribes with really prominent <has characteristic> to write and grow OCs from and personally I think there is an enormous gut-sized hole begging to be addressed with a Firebelly cult leader OC LL, seeing as it's such a prominent part of their religion(what is meat without fire!?) and a widely recognized and respected part of Ogre culture. Seeing as Cylostra went over so well and GW helped CA make 1.5 factions out of thin air expanding Ogres is just a matter of desire on their part. Doomykins fucked around with this message at 17:45 on Mar 11, 2022 |
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Mar 11, 2022 17:40
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In his few mentions in Total War lore blurbs for the slayer king and one other entry I forget, he was renamed to Golfgang. edit: found them again https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/163509/legendary-lord-ungrim-ironfist https://m.facebook.com/TotalWar/photos/a.125554144186461/916268701781664/?type=3&locale2=ar_AR Terrible Opinions fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Mar 11, 2022 |
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Mar 11, 2022 17:42
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mods wen
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Mar 11, 2022 17:53
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I really like the idea of legendary heroes and I think Bragg the Gutsman would be great as one for ogres. Probably make him a great duelist for 1v1 executions.
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Mar 11, 2022 18:32
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It's always fun to reread a full Warhammer character bio from time to time, particularly the more outrageous ones. Golfgang would fit into WH3 like a glove, having an established rivalry with Ungrim and teasing an expansion of Empire factions, or brand new factions for racial DLC in the Border Princes in his history with Lorenzo Lupo. There's also a distant possibility of an additional Greenskin LL with those connections, though Greenskins don't really want for content atm. There was a hiccup of data-mining on Reddit about "new assets for Marienburg", though that could just be a unique settlement map for fighting. Build-A-Demon lends itself to Build-A-Prince and further adventures in customization and a one size fits all tent for all the desired "humanity but not the empire" factions could be cast. Or you could bolt Lorenzo onto Empire as a 5th LL, or just release Golfgang as FLC. Golfgang's Maneaters were in Dogs of War in 5th ed, another faction that lends itself to odds and ends and underdog picks for a post-Chorfs world of eager wallets. quote:When the Dwarfs finally opened the dungeon some months later, they were startled to find Golfgang still alive. He had eaten every other inmate of the dungeon, including the rest of the Ogres, apart from Skaff. Out of respect for his oldest drinking buddy, Golfgang had only, so far, eaten one of Skaff's legs. A great pile of Orc, Goblin and Ogre bones lay in one corner. When he heard of this, Ungrim Ironfist was so impressed that he ordered Golfgang to be taken a long way away and released. *wipes away a single tear*
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Mar 11, 2022 20:51
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They'd be nuts if they didn't continue developing the build-a-lord thing they have going with the Daemon prince. Right now the feature is slightly underwhelming because so much of the gear you get is garbage, but the idea is neat. I'd like it for all my lords  Let me choose between 5 different gigantic hats with different effects for my chaos dwarf please
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Mar 11, 2022 21:03
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At the very least I think it should be extended to all generic lords. Give them something to compete and be cool alongside the legendary counterparts.
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Mar 11, 2022 21:05
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I just had a pyrrhic autoresolve against Kislev turn to a valiant defeat after I seduced a unit of Streltsi. What?
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Mar 11, 2022 21:21
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Terrible Opinions posted:In his few mentions in Total War lore blurbs for the slayer king and one other entry I forget, he was renamed to Golfgang. oh no it's golfgang how kill golfgang???? Doomykins posted:Bragg the Gutsman isn't a good choice to lead ogres lore-wise but it's nothing a touch up or hand wave can't fix. Hell, it's not like Skragg is an enlightened statesman to begin with. The better choice for Bragg would be to have him as a Legendary Hero who pops up every once in a while and leaves your faction after 30 turns, much like Gotrek and Felix. Kaiju Cage Match fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Mar 11, 2022 |
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Mar 11, 2022 21:30
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How! posted:I just had a pyrrhic autoresolve against Kislev turn to a valiant defeat after I seduced a unit of Streltsi. I guess the streltsi was too weak, so it died and caused you to go over an army loss threshold?
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Mar 11, 2022 21:32
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The Door Frame posted:What? Aggressive timers are meant to discourage turtling and encourage more aggressive play and your example, XCOM 2, is the perfect example of this design ideology. The first game had nothing to discourage the player from inching forward on overwatch, so the sequel added timers, some of them pretty aggressive, so that the optimal strategy is no longer to inch forward on overwatch every mission. Ya I've seen lots of people say its not as bad as I remember it in XCOM2, maybe need to give it another chance. I think there are other ways to incentivize the player to play aggressive. In games like Fire Emblem enemy gets reinforcement in your flanks after a certain amount of turns. This is better than timer goes to 0 = fail state. You still get to play if you try to cheese and play slow but you get punished for it. Onmi posted:Yeah, Kislev has no ability to chase down enemy armies which in turn makes it impossible to patrol your lands. They have no block army, there is STILL no solution to the "LMAO I can force march and attack your settlements and run off like a giggling school girl." the enemy AI has. Oh they have a province command to reduce enemy movement? Be a shame if you didn't own the whole province! Ya kinda annoying to play as them despite them having a fun roster. It seems with all the constraints on them it's just putting one fire out after another. Reminds me of TTW2 Dwarfs before they got some buffs. But they had less public order issues and the book of grudges was usually easy to fulfill unlike getting supporters early on.
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Mar 11, 2022 21:34
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XCOM2 doesn't take you to a fail state though. If the bar fills up it just gives you a special mission to make the bar go down.
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Mar 11, 2022 21:41
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Terrible Opinions posted:XCOM2 doesn't take you to a fail state though. If the bar fills up it just gives you a special mission to make the bar go down. The individual missions in XCOM2 have a timer that often acts as a failstate for that mission (the crates are detonated, the hack goes through, etc)
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Mar 11, 2022 21:42
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Ulio posted:Ya kinda annoying to play as them despite them having a fun roster. It seems with all the constraints on them it's just putting one fire out after another. I just don't understand this. Putting one fire out after another is why they are fun! I really like Kislev's campaign because I thought they did an awesome job at making you feel like you're always under seige and scrambling. I like it. Even the Realms fit well with their campaign specifically I think, even if with they don't with others and would get repetitious. If you want to just have steamroll campaigns you've got things like Khorne (and maybe some of the other demons I haven't played with yet). The variety of campaign feel is a huge strength of the game, and the TW games in general.
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Mar 11, 2022 21:56
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Ulio posted:Ya I've seen lots of people say its not as bad as I remember it in XCOM2, maybe need to give it another chance. I think there are other ways to incentivize the player to play aggressive. In games like Fire Emblem enemy gets reinforcement in your flanks after a certain amount of turns. This is better than timer goes to 0 = fail state. You still get to play if you try to cheese and play slow but you get punished for it. Supporters isn't really hard. If you put a support building in each province of East Oblast that's usually enough to completely steamroll past the Great Orthodoxy. I think invoking Salyak on Turn 2 is the best option as it lets you negate the loss from fighting against the Ropps, getting +2 Supporters with each level for your two characters.
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Mar 11, 2022 22:20
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Onmi posted:Supporters isn't really hard. If you put a support building in each province of East Oblast that's usually enough to completely steamroll past the Great Orthodoxy. I think invoking Salyak on Turn 2 is the best option as it lets you negate the loss from fighting against the Ropps, getting +2 Supporters with each level for your two characters.
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Mar 11, 2022 22:31
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Ravenfood posted:Ursun gets you 5/settlement and if you move fast you can finish off the Roppsmen with only one field battle (-2) and 4 settlement battles (+12). From a pure supporters gain I think its better, but Salyak might be better for the growth and replenishment anyway. I think it's worth taking the detour to get rid of the ogres. which can be 2 more battles. and if you level upon each of them each battle is +2. That said some fights you can get more than just 1 level each, I think fighting the Ogres got me +3 levels in a single fight on Kat. That said I have not experimented with Ursun, Tor or Dazh. Dazh's supporters for buildings could also be good provided you build ASAP, and you do fight a number of battles for Tor to maybe be worth it.
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Mar 11, 2022 22:37
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Dazh is incredibly strong when you're first taking the oblast because you should be making GBS threads out super low build time churches and money buildings everywhere.
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Mar 11, 2022 22:49
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Terrible Opinions posted:XCOM2 doesn't take you to a fail state though. If the bar fills up it just gives you a special mission to make the bar go down. No. If the bar fills up and you are unable to bring it down in 2 in game weeks you lose.
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Mar 11, 2022 22:51
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I've only played Miao Ying and Katarin but I feel like both of them have... Too much? Like you've got the bastion and the yin yang, and Sim Caravan Manager, on top of the usual stuff and it's just a lot of things to balance while doing the soul race.
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Mar 11, 2022 23:03
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