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cinci zoo sniper
Mar 15, 2013




gently caress SNEEP posted:

people forcing "cope cages" on to wikipedia like it's actual term and not something internet soldiers came up with is really dumb

It’s funnier than half of the jokes people have posted in this thread.

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KitConstantine
Jan 11, 2013

Sweden and Finland having lots of meetings, plan to present a united front regarding the war
https://twitter.com/akihheikkinen/status/1503453096084660226?t=Av4iTRxK8kwG_mvxkrEfNA&s=19
Article: https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/Wj1kkK/uppgifter-regeringen-ska-presentera-nytt-samarbete-med-finland

translation posted:

Anders Lidén, former ambassador to Helsinki, says that contacts between Sweden and Finland have also intensified in the past during security policy crises, for example when Russia invaded the Crimean peninsula in 2014.

Then these political talks increased and it was not least the Finns who were very interested in it then and then the Swedes have also caught up, you could say and become just as interested.

He says that there has previously been a suspicion in Finland that Sweden would do things behind Finland's back - but he says that the deepened contacts between the countries now show that these are new times.

- This is a clear and distinct signal to the outside world that you go hand in hand when it comes to the situation in Ukraine and I think that is a very important signal.

- It is also very important, I think, for both sides, that no one takes a step without the other being fully informed, such as about NATO membership.

cinci zoo sniper
Mar 15, 2013




Willo567 posted:

My fear is that a NATO member calling for one is going to start other NATO members calling for a no-fly zone. Is Estonia influential in NATO?

It’s the smallest member state, and no one will do anything without American consent. Calm down.

slowdave
Jun 18, 2008

Willo567 posted:

It worries me because now a NATO country is calling for one

I would assume a parliamentary vote like that is mostly symbolic and inconsequential since Estonia probably doesn't have a ton of clout inside NATO

Mystic Mongol
Jan 5, 2007

Your life's been thrown in disarray already--I wouldn't want you to feel pressured.


College Slice

KitConstantine posted:

https://twitter.com/RChoongWilkins/status/1503363594049626116?t=S-iy48Pp7LTBXbBIyudERA&s=19
Though one of their main port cities Shenzhen is closed through the 20th for mass covid testing which doesn't help (source: my company's factory in China)

72%!? That can't be right, can it? That's three years of Great Depression numbers.

Mulva
Sep 13, 2011
It's about time for my once per decade ban for being a consistently terrible poster.

Shageletic posted:

Luckily it seems to be occurring naturally as US power rapidly declines abroad.

You will live and die in a world where the United States is the overwhelmingly dominant military, cultural, and economic force. "Rapid" is only true in historical timeframes. In, say, a century of continued decline the United States might be overtaken. As was said, the total combined loss of grain from Russia and the Ukraine could be met by the US stockpiles alone. We also have the logistics to actually move that grain if we wanted to. We are in almost any metric you care to name, except not being evil and/or caring about it's citizens, orders of magnitude ahead of everyone else.

And your master plan is "Just opt out of doing things.". Well, I'm sorry to say that's not going to happen. I mean not sorry, the other one. Incredibly happy.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015

17th Separate Kryvyi Rih Tank Brigade named after Konstantin Pestushko
Look to my coming on the first light of the fifth sixth some day

gently caress SNEEP posted:

people forcing "cope cages" on to wikipedia like it's actual term and not something internet soldiers came up with is really dumb

war is really dumb

https://twitter.com/aduehren/status/1497655699257671695

Doccers
Aug 15, 2000


Patron Saint of Chickencheese

Antillie posted:

What the gently caress is with all that random anti javelin scaffolding all around the turret? I mean, it clearly isn't working and its just hilarious to see all these attempts to defeat modern ATGMs with some metal pipes and a welder fail so completely.

I have heard of them being referred to as "Cope Cages".

And they are not at all effective against javalins.

KitConstantine
Jan 11, 2013

Meanwhile other state sponsored media in Russia is also being really cool and normal
https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1503450577132527622?t=qpFvJMO3ExdPmOQTC9-Iyw&s=19
If anyone has time and patience for this crap i would request an approximate translation

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

cr0y posted:

I can't believe no one went for the "yes you can buy our gold but we are going to keep it physically, I mean you trust us right?" Plan.

Fun story: at the start of the Spanish Civil War Stalin made a very generous offer to the Republicans to store the Spanish gold reserves in Russia for safekeeping.

Yes exactly what you think happened happened.

Eric Cantonese
Dec 21, 2004

You should hear my accent.

Mystic Mongol posted:

72%!? That can't be right, can it? That's three years of Great Depression numbers.

It's right. Chinese stocks have always been super volatile and recent legal and policy changes by the CCP (as well as trouble in the real estates development sector) are also contributing to the overall downward trend she is citing.

This is like a 72% decline from peak, not like a 72% overnight drop.

Antifa Poltergeist
Jun 3, 2004

"We're not laughing with you, we're laughing at you"



Mulva posted:

You will live and die in a world where the United States is the overwhelmingly dominant military, cultural, and economic force. "Rapid" is only true in historical timeframes. In, say, a century of continued decline the United States might be overtaken. As was said, the total combined loss of grain from Russia and the Ukraine could be met by the US stockpiles alone. We also have the logistics to actually move that grain if we wanted to. We are in almost any metric you care to name, except not being evil and/or caring about it's citizens, orders of magnitude ahead of everyone else.

And your master plan is "Just opt out of doing things.". Well, I'm sorry to say that's not going to happen. I mean not sorry, the other one. Incredibly happy.

Depends, moving the grain where?

Murgos
Oct 21, 2010

ZombieLenin posted:

I am just going to assume the 30mm autocannon on a BMP cannot penetrate the side armor of a T-72.

Again, I’m going to assume that’s the case with no real idea.

I seem to recall that one of the big surprises of the GW1 was that the 25mm Autocannon on the Bradleys/LAVs were, in fact, able to penetrate the side armor on T-72's.

Issaries
Sep 15, 2008

"At the end of the day
We are all human beings
My father once told me that
The world has no borders"

cinci zoo sniper posted:

It’s the smallest member state, and no one will do anything without American consent. Calm down.

This is Iceland erasure!

But yeah. Estonia small too.

Majorian
Jul 1, 2009

Mulva posted:

You will live and die in a world where the United States is the overwhelmingly dominant military, cultural, and economic force.

China's GDP is projected to overtake the U.S.' by as early as 2030.

Farking Bastage
Sep 22, 2007

Who dey think gonna beat dem Bengos!
Does anyone else remember when Trump fired Marie Yovanovitch with zero justification? https://www.npr.org/2020/01/25/799611011/take-her-out-in-new-recording-trump-heard-discussing-firing-ambassador-to-ukrain

Certainly clarifies a few things given current events.

TulliusCicero
Jul 29, 2017



Shageletic posted:

The US has a history of intervention in India including actual military clashes in the 1970s. Indian policy of non alignment has been around since the country has been independent. Non adherence and skepticism of US power is not exactly a head scratcher.

Yeah no, this not the wrong take whatsoever

India has (honestly very shrewdly and wisely) always taken the middle unaligned route during the Cold War, honestly to their great benefit

Add in India's history of...less than good relations with Europe and you can see how culturally India has charted a course of neutrality (very armed neutrality).

Modi is a shithead compared to past Indian governments, but this has been their stated intentions since independence in terms of diplomacy. India is aligned with India's interests, first and foremost.

Rust Martialis
May 8, 2007

by Fluffdaddy

(and can't post for 7 days!)

Willo567 posted:

It worries me because now a NATO country is calling for one

Historically, and I say this without malice, everything worries you.

Tomn
Aug 23, 2007

And the angel said unto him
"Stop hitting yourself. Stop hitting yourself."
But lo he could not. For the angel was hitting him with his own hands

Shageletic posted:

Cool.

Nope. Europe should be able to decide their own future, without the overwhelming overbearance of US military hegemony. Luckily it seems to be occurring naturally as US power rapidly declines abroad.

E: that's not to say I don't have a lot of criticisms about, say, German hegemony over the Greek economy, etc. But either way that situation will not be bettered by the American military industrial complex

Eh, I have more to say about this but it'd be getting off-topic and I'm not sure how much I really want to take this to PMs. Suffice it to say that I think you underestimate the positive influence America is capable of, even with no more than defensive guarantees to prevent other, more aggressive and repressive empires from getting funny ideas. Like, none of this would even be happening now if the stars had moved and Ukraine managed to get NATO membership.

Paladinus
Jan 11, 2014

heyHEYYYY!!!

KitConstantine posted:

Meanwhile other state sponsored media in Russia is also being really cool and normal
https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1503450577132527622?t=qpFvJMO3ExdPmOQTC9-Iyw&s=19
If anyone has time and patience for this crap i would request an approximate translation

This might be the wrong clip. Here he's rambling about how many subscribers and concurrent viewers his stream is getting across different platforms.

RottenK
Feb 17, 2011

Sexy bad choices

FAILED NOJOE

i don't have a translation by going by the comments the twitter person attached a wrong video to their tweet

https://twitter.com/OctopusFractal/status/1503454261472112640

russian alex jones sounds incredibly mad about losing some of his wealth

Telsa Cola
Aug 19, 2011

No... this is all wrong... this whole operation has just gone completely sidewaysface

Rust Martialis posted:

Historically, and I say this without malice, everything worries you.

Wilo these type of threads aren't great for you man.

PederP
Nov 20, 2009

Mystic Mongol posted:

72%!? That can't be right, can it? That's three years of Great Depression numbers.

It's not the price which has dropped 72% - it's some metric based on relative profit/earning ratios between US and Chinese stocks. The US is probably pulling levers to make China nervous about their vulnerable real estate sector. The US "China is helping Russia" could very well be agreed upon theater for the benefit of making China seem less of a backstabber when they pull the rug from under Putin.

If Chinese stability starts being threatened by this, Xi will tell Putin to end it before some date, one way or another. I'd put money on China already having given that date and Putin having run out of goodwill in getting it pushed forward. The question is whether Putin will commit all to a make-or-break offensive or whether he will fold and accept Ukrainian terms.

Ukraine might even have been told about the date by US allies, and thus have a significant advantage during negotiations. However this would piss off China and maybe make them give Putin more time. And so forth. But I really don't think China will let this go on for months. Too risky.

In this scenario (a hypothetical Russian deadline): If Ukraine demands Russia give up Donbass, or even Crimea, in the peace talks, they're effectively forcing Putin to go for a full victory before the deadline (which is impossible) or have him accept China pulling support, which would like mean a Russian economic collapse.

Interesting times. Not long ago I thought EU and China held the key to ending this war before either side (or both) was destroyed. EU has proven unwilling to move beyond economic warfare and weapon/monetary aid to Ukraine. So it is China which holds the key now. I'm not sure they want this privilege at all.

headspace
Apr 25, 2014

Shageletic posted:

The US has a history of intervention in India including actual military clashes in the 1970s. Indian policy of non alignment has been around since the country has been independent. Non adherence and skepticism of US power is not exactly a head scratcher.

The US government does a good job of covering it up with flowery "Protect Democracy" rhetoric, but since the end of WW 2 we have actively tried to keep potential rivals in check through balance of power. If someone cant become a regional hegemony, they certainly can't become a global hegemony.

People tend to see our "alliance" with Pakistan as a product of the war on terror, but that actually strained it, and we were allied with Pakistan long before that. Why were we allied with Pakistan? To ensure they had parity with India. The idea being we didn't have to worry about India being a threat if they were busy dealing with Pakistan.

Remember when a bunch of old school neocons freaked out when GWB invaded Iraq? Yeah, that was because he hosed our counterweight to Iran.

Rust Martialis
May 8, 2007

by Fluffdaddy

(and can't post for 7 days!)

gently caress SNEEP posted:

People forcing "cope cages" on to wikipedia like it's actual term and not something internet soldiers came up with is really dumb

"santorum", q.v.

Shageletic
Jul 25, 2007

headspace posted:

The US government does a good job of covering it up with flowery "Protect Democracy" rhetoric, but since the end of WW 2 we have actively tried to keep potential rivals in check through balance of power. If someone cant become a regional hegemony, they certainly can't become a global hegemony.

People tend to see our "alliance" with Pakistan as a product of the war on terror, but that actually strained it, and we were allied with Pakistan long before that. Why were we allied with Pakistan? To ensure they had parity with India. The idea being we didn't have to worry about India being a threat if they were busy dealing with Pakistan.

Remember when a bunch of old school neocons freaked out when GWB invaded Iraq? Yeah, that was because he hosed our counterweight to Iran.

Here's a fun bit of history:

quote:

U.S. diplomatic initiatives

With intelligence reports indicating the Indian cabinet was discussing the scopes of offensive into West Pakistan, on 10 December, the decision was taken by US to assemble a task force at Malacca strait, spearheaded by USS Enterprise. The force was to be capable of overshadowing the four Soviet ships already in the Bay of Bengal.[26]

Deployment

The task force was to be headed by USS Enterprise, at the time and still the largest aircraft carrier in the world. In addition, it consisted of amphibious assault carrier USS Tripoli (LPH-10), carrying a 200 strong Marine battalion and twenty five assault helicopters; The three guided missile escorts USS King (DDG-41), USS Decatur (DDG-31), and USS Parsons (DDG-33); four gun destroyers USS Bausell (DD-845), USS Orleck (DD-886), USS McKean (DD-784) and USS Richard B. Anderson; one ammo ship USS Haleakala (AE-25);one auxiliary fleet supply ship from Subic Bay Naval Base in the Philippines USS White Plains (AFS-4), who loaded over 60 Tons of Mail and Christmas Packages for the Task Force before leaving Subic Bay to join Task Force 74 on 19 December and a nuclear attack submarine.[26] The Enterprise was assigned by the Central authority, while the other ships were assigned by local commanders.[27] Enterprise was at this time at the Tonkin Gulf area. Recovering her airborne aircraft and transferring personnel who were required to stay to the USS Constellation (CVA-64), she prepared to head off. The task force was delayed while the support ships refueled, it held off East of Singapore, and was ordered into the Indian Ocean on 14 December.[27] crossed Malacca straits on the nights of 13–14 December and entered the Bay of Bengal on the morning of 15 December.[26] The group was required to proceed slowly, averaging a speed of 15 knots, both to conserve fuel as well as to allow advance information on its heading.

Stated objectives

The US government announced at the time that the task force could help evacuate Pakistani forces from East Pakistan following a ceasefire.[26] It was, however, to unofficially threaten and attack allied Bangladeshi and Indian forces and prevent the liberation of Bangladesh.[1][2]

Soviet response and standoff

On 6 and 13 December 1971, the Soviet Navy dispatched two groups of cruisers and destroyers and a submarine armed with nuclear missiles from Vladivostok; they trailed US Task Force 74 into the Indian Ocean from 18 December 1971 until 7 January 1972. The Soviets also had a nuclear submarine to help ward off the threat posed by USS Enterprise task force in the Indian Ocean.[28][29]

bUt WHy INdia No LIKe UsA

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

Delicious and Informative!
:3:

slowdave posted:

I would assume a parliamentary vote like that is mostly symbolic and inconsequential since Estonia probably doesn't have a ton of clout inside NATO
Yeah, minor states get to do stuff like this precisely because they're minor. Power constrains your ability to make wild proclamations without consequence, though that same power might delay the consequences, or deflect them unto other states.

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

The blue glow is a feature, not a bug


Pillbug

KitConstantine posted:

Meanwhile other state sponsored media in Russia is also being really cool and normal
https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1503450577132527622?t=qpFvJMO3ExdPmOQTC9-Iyw&s=19
If anyone has time and patience for this crap i would request an approximate translation

"I will destroy you with the Army that cannot destroy a small nation next door!"

TulliusCicero
Jul 29, 2017



Shageletic posted:

Here's a fun bit of history:

bUt WHy INdia No LIKe UsA

Add to this:

India watched in the 50s-60s the US and the Soviet Union carve up the world, and the US in particular stabbing Nasser in Egypt in the back and allowing Israel carte blanche in its wars. They don't want to be Pakistan's Egypt.

India refused to be a colony of imperialism again. The world honestly sleeps on India's growth in recent decades a lot, but their quick trajectory from developing country to regional to borderline world power has been quite impressive to watch.

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

KitConstantine posted:

Another reporter got hosed up in Ukraine
https://twitter.com/CurtisHouck/status/1503446461991854081?t=zz6sxFKC4rfvmchgnzD9tA&s=19
Wonder how Tucker will spin this one

he is gonna get told by corporate to shut the gently caress up real loving quickly probably, especially if the reporter dies.

KitConstantine posted:

Details on the woman who stormed the set
https://twitter.com/maryilyushina/status/1503452849925242885?t=RBAo98hz3jsRvL9rDBvF5w&s=19
Apparently a top human rights lawyer in Russia is preparing for her defense. At least her name is out there now so she'll be more difficult to "disappear"


drat, braver person then i will ever be. hope she is able to get out of this.

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007



Do Sweden and Finland have some sort of backstabbing rival history?

OAquinas
Jan 27, 2008

Biden has sat immobile on the Iron Throne of America. He is the Master of Malarkey by the will of the gods, and master of a million votes by the might of his inexhaustible calamari.

Dapper_Swindler posted:

he is gonna get told by corporate to shut the gently caress up real loving quickly probably, especially if the reporter dies.


An optimist!
Tucker is their cash cow; they're not going to muzzle him.

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

The blue glow is a feature, not a bug


Pillbug

I'm sorry ahead of time.

TulliusCicero
Jul 29, 2017



OAquinas posted:

An optimist!
Tucker is their cash cow; they're not going to muzzle him.

Tucker will say it's a sad situation, but let's review the facts:

1.Ben was no Angel
2.He really had no place being in the way of Putin's right to shell Ukraine
3.Really Biden is to blame for this in the first place
4.Most Americans don't know where Ukraine is on a map: why should we care?

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

Delicious and Informative!
:3:

KillHour posted:

Do Sweden and Finland have some sort of backstabbing rival history?
I think Swedish backstabbing has mostly been directed at Denmark and Russia. (Though it goes both ways)

Liquid Chicken
Jan 25, 2005

GOOP

KillHour posted:

Do Sweden and Finland have some sort of backstabbing rival history?

Eh, here have some 700 years of history - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finland_under_Swedish_rule

PederP
Nov 20, 2009

CommieGIR posted:

"I will destroy you with the Army that cannot destroy a small nation next door!"

Probably silly nitpicking, and bit unreasonable to make this comment in reply to a (good) joke, but I can't help myself. I know Ukraine is 'small' compared to the US and to the EU combined, but it really isn't that small a nation, neither in population or area.

There's a disturbing tendency across Europe right now where Russia is dismissed as pitiful and weak. People claiming weird stuff like actually small NATO members surely being able to wipe the floor with the Russia military. I think that is a dangerous line of thought and I wish more was done to keep it in check. Ukraine is putting up a monumentally brave and clever defense. They're stretching their quite large army to the breaking point to check the Russian offensive. Sure, a coalition of EU or NATO members could perhaps humiliate the Russian military in a war - but this isn't a cakewalk for Ukraine. Thousands are dying. Ukrainian victory is far from assured despite these efforts.

Again, I am not trying to strawman these claims on you. Your joke just reminded me that there is this dangerous (and frankly disrespectful towards Ukraine) discourse on the rise, where Russia is being painted as completely toothless and inept. Sure, they weren't what we were expecting. Sure, they've shown some incredible failures at all levels. But despite this, they're still doing massive damage to Ukraine and might still achieve some kind of conventional 'victory'. Trying to dismiss Russia as a non-threat is correct if one is sitting in the US, UK, Canada or Australia. But for European nations with sharing borders by land or sea with Russia, it really reeks of hubris and not wanting to acknowledge the massive cost paid by the Ukrainian people right now.

Sorry for being all sour and negative, when you all you did was make fun of someone who deserved it. I'm just a bit saddened by my fellow Europeans who are treating this like Russia is already yesterday's threat and Ukrainian farmers are already doing victory laps in their tractors.

Rinkles
Oct 24, 2010

What I'm getting at is...
Do you feel the same way?
This is the injured Fox News reporter, a few days ago

https://twitter.com/justinbaragona/status/1501329993523204096?s=20&t=1WuBfqFx7d7ITGvJcASRKA

TulliusCicero
Jul 29, 2017




Yeah I checked to see who the dude was: unforunately seems like he was a pretty stand up guy and pushed back on the Putin Crew quite a bit, seems like a standard foreign affairs journalist

Honestly hope he's okay :smith:

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OddObserver
Apr 3, 2009
https://mobile.twitter.com/gkates/status/1503461628179894274?cxt=HHwWhMC-kdOYr90pAAAA

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