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I like that choosing something for moral reasons can backfire. Just being the "good guy" isn't enough in Triangle Strategy. Frederica's path, for example Serenoa makes a "moral" choice by completely abandoning everything everyone else fought for to free the Roselle and straight up dies. Oftentimes a utilitarian choice has a better outcome but at the end of the day you don't really know until you know. Nothing in the game is written so clear cut IMO. There's nothing really "stupid" about the Scales and nothing is written so badly as that poster's example.
Levantine fucked around with this message at 12:58 on Mar 14, 2022 |
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Mar 14, 2022 12:56
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The salt smuggling thing was an easy "nope" because I'm not Japanese and don't see helpful favors as heavy debts I must repay, and also those guys are scumbags so I feel zero guilt taking their food and supplies and then telling them to gently caress off when they try to make me their debt slaves. And yes it is really stupid that Serenoa doesn't actually get a vote. The scales thing is just a political form of gameplay to add some variety between fights and the outcomes are how you have branching story paths so they had to do something. I would have been just fine with a linear story and more fights but I guess that's why they added mock battles. I spend a lot of time doing those because they're fun and I can make my homies stronger and buy rings and stuff. Anyway the choices in the game are meaningful but to a limited degree. This is a strategy war game so I know that I can always fight my way out of any struggles I create through my choices of "not being a scumbag". Like giving up the prince? Regardless of what I do I know I can always fight to protect him and he's a good combat unit so I'm going to keep him. Silvio was going to fight me no matter what my choice was and I crushed him so what was the point of giving me a choice?
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Mar 14, 2022 13:50
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There’s some good bits of writing that I really enjoy surrounded by a lot that is meh. The “Yet you participate in war. Curious!” part made me especially roll my eyes
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Mar 14, 2022 14:00
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I recall Serenoa getting a vote in the original demo, they probably took that out because it made it too easy to control the choice. They decided to go with a system that forces you to come up with convincing arguments based around each character’s personality. You also are incentivized to talk to every NPC and learn as much as you can. I like it the way it is.
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Mar 14, 2022 14:08
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Man it's so weird to see people write off decisions as obvious when I chose the opposite believing it to be just as obvious. Giving away Roland was a no brainer, he's not dying as long as he's a useful puppet and I don't know what effect the battle would have on my civilians even though I knew I was going to win. Besides he even wants to give himself up. And smuggling salt was also a no brainer, I want to know who's buying the salt on the other side and actually have real evidence when I bring it against the Saintly Seven. Serenoa not getting a vote is thematic really. He's meant to be the arbiter so maintaining impartiality keeps people onside even if they don't like the way the vote has gone.
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Mar 14, 2022 14:11
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Natural 20 posted:Man it's so weird to see people write off decisions as obvious when I chose the opposite believing it to be just as obvious. I feel the same way. Contextually there's no way to know how anything will play out and every side in the argument carries weight whether I'd agree personally or not. I felt the same way about taking the salt - gathering evidence first made way more sense than charging into a potentially hostile kingdom and tattling on one of their highest ranking politicians with nothing but an accusation. Total no brainer to me. But that's the game - weighing cost and consequences. From a story perspective I think it works perfectly. Levantine fucked around with this message at 14:21 on Mar 14, 2022 |
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Mar 14, 2022 14:16
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Roland isn't going to die no matter what you choose so why not keep him to help you fight? He's a dumb kid so tell him "you're being dumb" and help him through his poo poo instead of letting him self exile like a moronic goth kid. You're going to have to fight Hyzante regardless of whether or not you have conclusive proof of salt smuggling and even if you have proof Sorsley is rich and powerful so nothing is likely to happen so why not skip all the bullshit and go right after him since you're going to have to fight him anyway? I'm not saying anyone's choices are wrong but it's weird to think that having solid proof that a billionaire committed crimes will result in justice or that it's a great idea to let your best friend leave your protection because he's dumb.
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Mar 14, 2022 14:30
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Interesting thing about going after Sorsley immediately is that there are two different battles depending on whether you answer Benedict’s questions correctly. If you fail to answer correctly, you immediately get arrested. Not sure what the battle is because I reset after loving it up. If you answer correctly, you sneak into the compound to steal the secret ledger and have to fight your way out after being discovered.
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Mar 14, 2022 14:36
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I enjoyed basing my opinions on characters from their portraits before the game even lets you know they're bad news. Sorsley, Telliore and the Aesfrostian Three absolutely look scheming and evil in their portraits. It's not subtle.
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Mar 14, 2022 14:36
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I do like that a lot of the choices have reasonable arguments for both/all sides except maybe the Silvio one. Saying one is “obvious!!!!!!” is weird unless you’re approaching it from a meta-gameish standpoint
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Mar 14, 2022 14:39
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Yeah I’ve been enjoying that my actions have consequences I didn’t foresee and the complications that arise. I’m also reasonably annoyed sometimes when my folks don’t vote how I want but then I remember the game is meant to be played through more than once and that even having a choice that affects anything in-game is a huge step up from normal rpgs so eh
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Mar 14, 2022 14:40
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Blackbelt Bobman posted:Interesting thing about going after Sorsley immediately is that there are two different battles depending on whether you answer Benedict’s questions correctly. If you fail to answer correctly, you immediately get arrested. Not sure what the battle is because I reset after loving it up. If you answer correctly, you sneak into the compound to steal the secret ledger and have to fight your way out after being discovered. Weird I thought I chose the correct answers but still got arrested immediately What were the right answers??? The fight is you fight sorsely on an arena surrounded by spikes and if you answer the trial questions correctly you get a grounding amulet
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Mar 14, 2022 14:41
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Elephant Ambush posted:Roland isn't going to die no matter what you choose so why not keep him to help you fight? He's a dumb kid so tell him "you're being dumb" and help him through his poo poo instead of letting him self exile like a moronic goth kid. So Hyzante might well be true if you just believe that there's absolutely no justice at all in Hyzante because the dude's a billionaire. But notably, you're also a billionaire and a valuable asset to them as well. There is, at least to me, a much better chance that you conclusively stop Ende if you have a real understanding of his Salt business. As it turns out, in game that ends up not mattering because even more evidence is unearthed against him and the real value of following the route is in investigating who is actually buying up all that salt illegally. In terms of Roland. The key part isn't Roland, the key part is that I do not want war at my doorstep. Even if it is a war I can win.
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Mar 14, 2022 14:46
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Natural 20 posted:So Hyzante might well be true if you just believe that there's absolutely no justice at all in Hyzante because the dude's a billionaire. But notably, you're also a billionaire and a valuable asset to them as well. I respect your role playing  I'm gonna metagame.
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Mar 14, 2022 15:06
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My first playthrough so far has been the "gently caress Hyzante" route, but I was pleasantly surprised to find out the decisions here, unlike in Tactics Ogre, aren't simply Law vs. Chaos, or even faction vs. faction vs. faction. In some cases, I didn't even have a strong idea in mind of which option to choose, so I let the discussions play out and the chips falling where they fell. Just in reading some of these alternate paths, sure, some of the story beats might be slightly contrived, but it's done so for the sake of gameplay variety--not poor writing--so that gets a pass from me. I'm in Chapter XVI, having chosen to follow Benedict's plan. Based on my gameplay so far, I have a few suspicions as to what is considered the "Golden Route," but we'll see. For me, right now, this game is sits above the Tactics Advance series, but below Final Fantasy Tactics (which is below Tactics Ogre: LUCT). Edit: Also, regarding Chapter XV Part I's choice: Who, in your opinion, is the best recruitable person in this route? I really wanted the female bandit--I assumed it would be her or the spearman--but I am risk adverse and holy crap Milo is basically a flyer. No idea about Cordelia--never seen her in battle compared to the other two.. Prowler fucked around with this message at 15:15 on Mar 14, 2022 |
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Mar 14, 2022 15:11
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I think it would have been better from a story perspective if the consequence of giving up Roland was made after you choose not to charge recklessly into the castle. What is the point for going into the castle, seeing Aesfrost lie to your face, then you flee with Roland (but without the rest of the royal family for reasons?) then immediately give up Roland anyway? If instead you chose "not to get involved with the affairs of glenbrook", like a coward, then when Avalore comes to your Demense you obviously give up Roland because you are a coward and you don't get the choice anymore. Basically bring the scales of conviction to decide whether you sneak into the castle or not.
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Mar 14, 2022 15:32
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Is there any route where you don't see what happens in the mine? It would be a much more interesting choice if you weren't 100% sure their story about Regna was a lie.
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Mar 14, 2022 15:37
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ate poo poo on live tv posted:What is the point for going into the castle, seeing Aesfrost lie to your face, then you flee with Roland (but without the rest of the royal family for reasons?) The reason is that Roland is right next to the door with you, and the others are across the room with Avlora and Gustadolph between you and them. Reik posted:Is there any route where you don't see what happens in the mine? It would be a much more interesting choice if you weren't 100% sure their story about Regna was a lie. TBH it wouldn't surprise me if Regna actually did have schemes regarding the mine that he just never got the chance to execute. Patriatte does implicate Grani in the embezzlement Julio uncovers, after all. Cattail Prophet fucked around with this message at 15:50 on Mar 14, 2022 |
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Mar 14, 2022 15:45
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Prowler posted:Edit: Also, regarding Chapter XV Part I's choice: Who, in your opinion, is the best recruitable person in this route? I really wanted the female bandit--I assumed it would be her or the spearman--but I am risk adverse and holy crap Milo is basically a flyer. No idea about Cordelia--never seen her in battle compared to the other two.. I just did this part, and I didn't even have an option. I had Milo say she'd go with me, but I haven't seen Cordelia in a couple of chapters and don't even know who the third person you mention is.
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Mar 14, 2022 15:50
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Huxley posted:I just did this part, and I didn't even have an option. I had Milo say she'd go with me, but I haven't seen Cordelia in a couple of chapters and don't even know who the third person you mention is. The first battle of the game.
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Mar 14, 2022 15:51
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Reik posted:The first battle of the game. Oh wow, I think I saw her exactly one more time in the past 35 hours. e; It's neat to think there's a playthrough of this game that goes so differently that those two characters are recruitable at this point and not potentially on their deathbed and completely absent from the narrative, respectively. Huxley fucked around with this message at 15:57 on Mar 14, 2022 |
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Mar 14, 2022 15:53
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Elephant Ambush posted:You're going to have to fight Hyzante regardless of whether or not you have conclusive proof of salt smuggling and even if you have proof Sorsley is rich and powerful so nothing is likely to happen so why not skip all the bullshit and go right after him since you're going to have to fight him anyway? That decision isn't about sticking it to Sorsley, really. It's about how to best find yourself an ally. If you become complicit with Sorsley, you can theoretically gain more funding and have an excuse to see what Aesfrost is up to, but on the other hand it means risking tarnishing your honorable name and committing a high crime against Hyzanthe. Sorsley might try to scapegoat you, but that's unlikely since he's so tied up in black market profiteering. So you would get an uneasy alliance with him. If you go against Sorsley, you risk standing alone in an absolute theocracy against one of its cardinals, but on the other hand if you can prove that he's evil, you'll have secured a vital ally in Hyzanthe. this all makes sense in the context of the plot, where Glenbrook is has "resumed peace" but Wolffort is entirely without allies while a tyrant sits on its throne.
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Mar 14, 2022 15:59
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Huxley posted:I just did this part, and I didn't even have an option. I had Milo say she'd go with me, but I haven't seen Cordelia in a couple of chapters and don't even know who the third person you mention is. When you understand the game isn't going to penalize you for a decision you make by making another path more rewarding, so it is a safe assumption that each choice has equivalent prizes and experiences. That said, it's very clear where you will go and battle based on your decision, and the game more or less outright tells you who you will recruit if you travel back home, saying Milo will be there.. It isn't that hard to figure out who the game is talking about when they mention that bandits are headed to the Roselle village and what their purpose is, considering the stolen book from the library scene that occurred before it.. The only one I don't think you could guess without prior knowledge is Cordelia, since you never see her in battle as far as I am aware.. I know the first two are pretty baller. I'm not sure about the third!
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Mar 14, 2022 16:18
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Cephas posted:That decision isn't about sticking it to Sorsley, really. It's about how to best find yourself an ally. I don't agree. This whole game spends a ton of time teaching you that, with few exceptions, everyone who's not aligned with Wolffort is a Machiavellian piece of poo poo you can't trust. The game goes out of its way to show you, before you make your decisions, that the people giving you a choice are awful garbage trash and want to gently caress you over somehow. Hell, your own camp merchant is a loud and proud war profiteer. And if he weren't permanently aligned with me because of plot reasons I wouldn't deal with him at all because I wouldn't trust him to not play all sides and sell poo poo to everyone for his own gain. Before he joins you, you see him in a cutscene where he goes to Aesfrost to try to sell stuff to them and I assume he knows that Aesfrost initiated the invasion. And anyway this is a war game so you're going to fight lovely people no matter what choice you make. So if you're the protagonist and can always win then why not just tell all the scumbags to gently caress off and if they wanna gently caress around they'll find out.
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Mar 14, 2022 16:21
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MotU posted:Weird I thought I chose the correct answers but still got arrested immediately The correct answers were: 1. Illicit Salt 2. Secret Ledger 3. Sorsley’s Encampment The first question is a great example of secret information that you can unlock being the wrong choice. Edit: I corrected the wording of the choices Blackbelt Bobman fucked around with this message at 16:38 on Mar 14, 2022 |
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Mar 14, 2022 16:31
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Prowler posted:The only one I don't think you could guess without prior knowledge is Cordelia, since you never see her in battle as far as I am aware.. Yeah, but also tbf to the game at that point who else could you possibly recruit at the capital? That area sorta ran out of characters lmao I didn't logic it out myself though, I immediately went village hoping I would get "the beautiful bandit" which I did.
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Mar 14, 2022 16:36
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Prowler posted:When you understand the game isn't going to penalize you for a decision you make by making another path more rewarding, so it is a safe assumption that each choice has equivalent prizes and experiences. Ahhhh, I never even thought much about it that way. Like, until you said it that way I assumed I was supposed to have two other people standing in the area with them saying, "I will accompany you to X!" and that I had just blocked those options out by prior choices. Next time around I'll know, at least.
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Mar 14, 2022 16:40
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Ch. 15 character Trish hits like a god drat truck, can use fire arrows, has great mobility with Leap, and her weapon skill is Act Twice. She also auto-steals from enemies she hits and will pick up any spoils bags she crosses over while moving.
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Mar 14, 2022 18:00
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I wish there was some sort of marker to let me know when the Encampment gets new items so I don't visit it every time a new scene happens in hopes of getting certain items.
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Mar 14, 2022 18:19
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Not really a ‘trick’ per say, but you can bring a bunch of your underleveled units to a story map (or any map where they are under leveled) and depending on much they are, you can gain a whole level per turn as long as they do anything. I had Benedict out bugging someone for a full level a turn and now everyone is within a level or two of the story map I’m on. Which is also helpful because a big thing I’ve realized about this game is that it’s handy to have more than just an ‘A’ squad. There are maps that melee units with knock back rule. And there are other maps where just two archers mean I’m raining arrows down on units that can’t do dick all about it. I’m defending a village of folks after some salt dealings and Hughette and the Old Man are just causing absolute hell on top of buildings while Erador and a healer are keeping everyone at bay. But normally old man isn’t in my squad. Picoletta also keeps everyone distracted with her clones and running around on the ground while I mop up. It’s been fun ‘solving’ maps. And this is just on normal.
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Mar 14, 2022 19:01
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I just hit the Final Chapter for my first run, is there anything I should do before I finish it and start up a NG+? I know there's a few characters I haven't recruited yet due to convictions, but I figure as long as they're not route specific I should be good? Does anyone know if Maxwell is route specific?
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Mar 14, 2022 19:56
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Reik posted:I just hit the Final Chapter for my first run, is there anything I should do before I finish it and start up a NG+? I know there's a few characters I haven't recruited yet due to convictions, but I figure as long as they're not route specific I should be good? Yes You can only get him if you defend the Roselle in Chapter 11. He can then join late game if you have high liberty and morality in Chapter 15 There are only a few other route specific characters. In Chapter 3 you get Rudolph if you go to Aesfrost and Corentin if you go to Hyzante. Chapter 15 has you get 1 of 4 different characters depending on the route choice you make with the Freedom choice additionally branching depending on some of your previous decisions. The 'Golden' Ending route has an additional character join in Chapter 17. Every other recruitable character you get by default or by hitting some level of conviction score and doing a little inter-chapter vignette. If you want all 30 characters you need to replay the game in full four times because of Chapter 15, you can get literally everyone else in a single playthrough technically if you're willing to grind like mad. Any unlocked characters carry over to NG+.
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Mar 14, 2022 20:48
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Saxophone posted:Not really a ‘trick’ per say, but you can bring a bunch of your underleveled units to a story map (or any map where they are under leveled) and depending on much they are, you can gain a whole level per turn as long as they do anything. I had Benedict out bugging someone for a full level a turn and now everyone is within a level or two of the story map I’m on. This game is even more generous with the level catchup mechanism than its cousins. Based on what I've seen--and please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong: 1. You are capped at 100 xp per action if sufficiently low-leveled enough (instant level up), but the experience gained wraps around--so the remainder rolls over to the next level. 2. The amount of experience you gain is not determined by the type of action you take. 3. You get experience for most interactions, including reactions and follow up attacks. 4. The amount of experience gained per action is not tied to the level difference between the two individual participants performing the action; rather, I think, by the average level (or recommended level)? Tactics Ogre and Final Fantasy Tactics would reset your experience value to 0 after each level up. They would also value some actions over others (e.g. landing the killing blow resulted in more experience than doing damage). And, when experience gains are tied to the level difference between participants, support units tend to fall behind. It's overall a much better system--I don't have to game it or grind.
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Mar 14, 2022 20:59
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Prowler posted:This game is even more generous with the level catchup mechanism than its cousins. Based on what I've seen--and please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong: In addition to this. If a character gains a level in the heat of combat, their new abilities/passives are immediately available so for all intents and purposes they are exactly equivalent to any other character that started at that level on the map. (excepting class changes of course).
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Mar 14, 2022 21:24
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do u believe in marigolds posted:I wish there was some sort of marker to let me know when the Encampment gets new items so I don't visit it every time a new scene happens in hopes of getting certain items. They’ll only get new stuff at the beginning of a newly-numbered chapter. Doesn’t count if you go from Chapter III Part I to Part II. But I agree it would be nice to have an indicator.
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Mar 14, 2022 21:50
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I'm annoyed at the limits on weapon upgrades. I got a really cool new character whose weapon I can't upgrade because I've been out of Silver all game and there's nowhere to farm it.
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Mar 14, 2022 22:18
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ate poo poo on live tv posted:In addition to this. If a character gains a level in the heat of combat, their new abilities/passives are immediately available so for all intents and purposes they are exactly equivalent to any other character that started at that level on the map. (excepting class changes of course). Oh! And-- -Failed actions still count towards experience gain in many cases. -Double attacks--or moves that allow you to act on an enemy and then act again like Sticky Arrow, will trigger experience gain twice. I just had a unit go from 22 to 24 in one turn. -Losing a battle isn't strictly a game over; you keep any earned experience.
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Mar 14, 2022 23:26
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I do like the leveling system a lot. Vandal Hearts did it similarly. I'm not using Frederica or Benedict in my current run but I know if I New Game+ this, I'll want to push their levels up before the end of the game so the first battle of NG+ won't be impossible.
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Mar 14, 2022 23:54
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I don't understand why the promotion system exists. It's like they wanted to ape Fire Emblem without understanding anything about why it worked in Fire Emblem, and also that Fire Emblem has since more or less abandoned it anyway. It just feels bad to be leveling up while missing skills?
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Mar 15, 2022 00:24
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One of the mental battles involves making sure Serenoa doesn't die while fighting near some castle gates. It was really easy to bring my entire team up to the same level by beating up the barricades or constantly using their buff skills. It's a cool way to ensure you're not leaving anyone behind and to mix up your teams.
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Mar 15, 2022 00:26
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