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Empire knights are actually the front line. You charge them in as a roadblock and pull them back ten seconds later when the infantry starts getting up. Done properly they don't take much damage and are huge disruption while your artillery and gunpowder goes wild
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Mar 15, 2022 05:24
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Onmi posted:I really disagree. The main MAIN issue is that for example... what's a better anvil? Spearmen, Swordsmen, Greatswords OR your Lord, Warrior Priests and Captains? The latter, because there is less friendly fire from your Helstorms and your mage. What do you want Cavalry to be able to do? Hammer the enemy, and pull out. Reiksguard and Empire Captains are far too slow for that, and Demigryph Knights are minced by things they rightly shouldn't. Even using them as Anti-Large is hilarious considering how few models they have and how most large units still destroy them. Nothing like... told me how bad the Empire was until WH3 where I go "Oh... Bear Riders are what Demigryphs wanna be. The War Sleds are what the War Wagon wants to be. Tzar Guard is what Greatswords wish they were." This is true of every artillery faction, though(and counts and anyone with shadow/fire magic, because they do the same thing but with Wind of Death/Burning Head/Pendulum/etc). SEMs in TWW have always implemented in a really stupid way where one hero/lord can convince the AI to blob up multiple regiments of dudes for no reason. Of course the optimal lineholders are going to be the nearly unkillable SEMs that you can dump ten thousand nuclear bombs on top of without killing them or even endangering them. Empire troops do an okay job holding the line outside of that context, given their cheap cost; they're not all stars but they're okay. Halberdiers especially honestly have very good stats for how relatively cheap they are. War Wagons are indefensibly terrible, though. Kanos fucked around with this message at 05:48 on Mar 15, 2022 |
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Mar 15, 2022 05:44
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more like snore wagons 
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Mar 15, 2022 05:48
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Onmi posted:I really disagree. The main MAIN issue is that for example... what's a better anvil? Spearmen, Swordsmen, Greatswords OR your Lord, Warrior Priests and Captains? The latter, because there is less friendly fire from your Helstorms and your mage. What do you want Cavalry to be able to do? Hammer the enemy, and pull out. Reiksguard and Empire Captains are far too slow for that, and Demigryph Knights are minced by things they rightly shouldn't. Even using them as Anti-Large is hilarious considering how few models they have and how most large units still destroy them. Nothing like... told me how bad the Empire was until WH3 where I go "Oh... Bear Riders are what Demigryphs wanna be. The War Sleds are what the War Wagon wants to be. Tzar Guard is what Greatswords wish they were." Reiksguard and the Empire heavy cav at large are a perfectly servicable hammer. I'm trusting the wiki here for stats: Reiksguard are 1150 as compared to Gryphon Legion at 1200. The units have the same damage, MA, LD, unit count, and total health. The Reiksguard have 1 less MD too although I suspect that's probably not intentional. Anyway, that extra 50 gold is buying you the fear, a bit more charge bonus, and some extra speed... but that's for a nation that specializes in cavalry. The Empire is getting a pretty OK deal here, I think. If you're firing Helstorms into your own troops then yeah, you're right they won't be a great anvil... but no offense, that sounds like user error and/or personal preference, not a problem with the unit. If you want to mass your giant AOE artillery, then yes you want to use SEM to bunch up the AI. But that's a choice, not a requirement, because the Empire roster is so broad and allows so many different archetypes. If all you want is cheap guys to hold the line for a while while you set up a more traditional hammer, then the Empire state troops do fine. They're certainly better than what Bretonnia rolls out, and in actual combat prowess I think they're better than Kislev too on a cost-for-cost basis (although the Kislev passive makes their units hold when they rightly shouldn't). Cathay beats them when in harmony but that's by design, Cathay is more defensive and less mobile overall so they're expected to have to hold with less support. And even then it's close; the Empire's basic Spearmen are debatably better than Peasant Long Spearmen despite costing 25 less. As far as War Bear Riders, they cost 200 more than Demigryphs so yeah they're going to be a good bit more capable. Ditto for Tzar Guard vs. Greatswords (either 100 or 200 difference, depending on the former's kit). War Wagons aren't on the wiki (lol), so I can't compare costs, but yeah... some units are just bad. It happens, but at least in this case it was to a unit that isn't really emblematic of it's race/ Nobody was really going "yes, the Empire should have really good missile chariots" in the way that Kislev's historical tabletop roster would indicate that War Sleds (or some equivalent) should be a major contributor. That being said, I think that some of the MP folks would argue that they're a bit overtuned at the moment anyway. As you said though, the Empire's premier branch of the army is indeed their ranged. Which is fine, that doesn't make their other units instantly bad - just fairly costed. Although I'd also argue that the Empire has some really excellent light troops in the Free Company and Pistoliers/Outriders, as well as the most flexible artillery corps of any human roster (actually, probably any roster except the Dwarves). orangelex44 fucked around with this message at 06:41 on Mar 15, 2022 |
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Mar 15, 2022 05:53
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Kanos posted:War Wagons are indefensibly terrible, though. I liked the SFO balance of them which gave them quite good constant DPS against monsters and armoured units, combined with their high shooting position means they're generally good at supporting against big SEMs and monsters in a melee, and also gave them AoE ammo replen ability so you always want to pack one to keep your arty shooting longer. Once you have a reason to bring them you tend to find a reason to use them, even if a unit of outriders would generally be better because yeah, it's dozens of guys with guns vs a few guys in a cart. I don't really know how you manage to make them better than outriders in a pure shooting role TBH unless you wanted to turn them into an actual melee beast chariot which would be weird. So I like them being recast as a support logistics unit that can also shoot. Fits the theme of the empire quite well I think and also is basically the only thing you can do with them without making them not make a lot of sense. I guess if you wanted to you could put, like, hochland long rifles in them and turn them into a jezzail kinda unit? Or hell, give me my 6lb horse guns back from Empire TW. But I think both of those would be supremely annoying to fight against. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 06:08 on Mar 15, 2022 |
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Mar 15, 2022 06:01
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Would you all say you'd like the chaos realm mechanic more if it wasn't a race but just a thing that the player(s) factions could enter with (maybe) the trade-off that the lords army is taken out of the faction strength rating until it returns? Khorne is the only realm where multiple factions makes it more interesting, every other realm is just "first come first serve"
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Mar 15, 2022 06:47
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Ra Ra Rasputin posted:Would you all say you'd like the chaos realm mechanic more if it wasn't a race but just a thing that the player(s) factions could enter with (maybe) the trade-off that the lords army is taken out of the faction strength rating until it returns? Yes I would. I like the RIFT mechanic. I just have no desire to do the realms.
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Mar 15, 2022 06:50
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The Nurgle Realm works as an arena as well. I've killed plenty of armies who were ahead of me there.
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Mar 15, 2022 06:51
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I know it makes sense in-universe or whatever but I will never not laugh at some growly demon voice saying “SLAVES TO CORN” “MARCH FOR CORN” it’s just so stupid, I love it.
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Mar 15, 2022 07:24
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Ra Ra Rasputin posted:Would you all say you'd like the chaos realm mechanic more if it wasn't a race but just a thing that the player(s) factions could enter with (maybe) the trade-off that the lords army is taken out of the faction strength rating until it returns? Not true, I was one turn behind Kairos in the Slaneesh realm. He was stood on the last portal, so when i went through the same one it dumped me on the battle tile and I got to immediately do the battle instead of waiting a turn. If that happened to me as the player i'd have been pissed
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Mar 15, 2022 10:43
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The Chaos race would be fine if like in 2 you just had a final battle against anyone who got all of the souls and winning knocked them out of the competition.
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Mar 15, 2022 12:41
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Just replace all the realms with Khornes realm but different colours with diff rewards at the shrines and that'd be an improvement imo
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Mar 15, 2022 13:08
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Ravenfood posted:Is there a list/wiki of the available frost maiden traits somewhere? I'm just churning through them now trying to get as many as I can to see if I can get some good archetypes. I've only seen one "buff all ranged weapon strength" one and two "buff ice guard by 10" ones and would love to see what I have to chew through. The ones I've seen: - +12% income or -10% construction cost -Perfect vigor, vanguard, stalk -Better assassinate or steal tech - Magic cooldown or something else (wind regen?) -melee damage or missile damage -ice guard melee attack or missile damage - -30% sled Upkeep or little grom Upkeep (seems very common compared to others) -Bolt spell or aoe spell Most of the Ice Witch traits are similar minus the hero stuff. They do get one that boosts local hero success chance and something else I think. I'll try to stack an ice and tempest lord/hero (or vice versa) with embedded spells and things like Upkeep, income, missile damage, etc. Stalk is incredibly strong, particularly on the heroes to keep them from being focus fired. They're not fast enough to make the most of vanguard and you want to slow them when they get within missile range anyway. Perfect vigor sounds nice but even on bears they aren't that tanky.
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Mar 15, 2022 13:35
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Panfilo posted:The ones I've seen: edit: \/\/\/\/ yeah having two with +7% missile damage and +10% Ice Guard missile damage in Katarin's stack is just hilarious AAAAA! Real Muenster fucked around with this message at 13:48 on Mar 15, 2022 |
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Mar 15, 2022 13:41
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Stacking the missile damage one's leads to very lopsided battles.
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Mar 15, 2022 13:44
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I played a bit of vanilla TWWH2 and man it is just so much smoother. Kinda frustrating tbh
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Mar 15, 2022 13:53
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Ice Witches also have an option for -10% Infantry Upkeep, which is a favorite of mine. Stack that with the blue line discounts and a few Iron Mines and you have really cheap Kossar stack. If you also have a hero or two with the Grom and/or Sled discount you can end up having a pretty cheap but effective stack. I still need to actually get around to doing a meme stack with three -30% Grom discounts.
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Mar 15, 2022 13:57
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Ravenfood posted:I have never seen one get both of these.
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Mar 15, 2022 14:02
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jokes posted:I played a bit of vanilla TWWH2 and man it is just so much smoother. Kinda frustrating tbh TWW3 has some legitimate unit control issues that did not exist in TWW2 and it's very strange and perplexing. I posted it upthread a while back, but: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXF1l3dDfn8 Infantry in particular react to orders extremely slowly compared to previous entries, and seem to have to slowly shuffle and turn in place to face a new direction before beginning to move instead of turning while moving.
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Mar 15, 2022 14:28
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And also just, like, performance-wise. It’s significantly smoother in TWWH2.
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Mar 15, 2022 14:34
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Kanos posted:Infantry in particular react to orders extremely slowly compared to previous entries, and seem to have to slowly shuffle and turn in place to face a new direction before beginning to move instead of turning while moving.
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Mar 15, 2022 14:37
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:I have one saved, its great. Now that I have the cash it's time to just keep pumping them out I guess. With my luck it'll be on an ice caster.
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Mar 15, 2022 14:59
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I finally popped into a realm to stop the Northern Territories from claiming the last soul (Of course it's Tzeentch) which is also a reminder that doing the realm on the first open is actually a very viable strategy. The first open realms are like a 5 unit stack for every enemy army. Super easy to kill through, lots of money (because Daemons) and it's basically a free realm. At turn 150, going into Tzeentch's realm as my first realm, enemies have Soul Grinders... Which is unfortunate, since I had to enter in Forced march.
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Mar 15, 2022 14:59
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Only one version of each soul can be claimed per cycle right? That is, if I grab Nurgle's soul this cycle, nobody else can, right? I had to skip a cycle and both the demon prince and kugath are one ahead of me. If that works out then I can at least keep the Prince from getting one this cycle but afterwards i think I'm going to somehow pin down Kugath and keep him from getting his 4th or into a portal in the round after. Somehow.
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Mar 15, 2022 15:09
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Ravenfood posted:Only one version of each soul can be claimed per cycle right? That is, if I grab Nurgle's soul this cycle, nobody else can, right? I had to skip a cycle and both the demon prince and kugath are one ahead of me. If that works out then I can at least keep the Prince from getting one this cycle but afterwards i think I'm going to somehow pin down Kugath and keep him from getting his 4th or into a portal in the round after. Somehow. Yes once the soul is claimed it boots everyone else out of the realm
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Mar 15, 2022 15:11
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Onmi posted:
Lmao. I take back all criticism about this game. That is fantastic. Eschatos fucked around with this message at 15:19 on Mar 15, 2022 |
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Mar 15, 2022 15:16
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:What is especially weird is that the AI doesnt have the same problems. If I drop the starter Lore of Tempest spell that I cannot remember the name of (drops ice shards kinda like Lore of Metal's starter spell drops metal) in front of a moving AI infantry unit, it can immediately stop, turn around, and march away from the area of effect. Meanwhile if the AI drops one on my infantry and I see it instantly, my infantry never react in time and just eat the damage.
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Mar 15, 2022 15:17
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Something to consider about Empire, they have gone through a lot of balancing compared to almost every other race. I remember that for a long time Demigriffs with halberds were an almost unbeatable cav option with the only rival being Blood Knights. Brettonia was considered kind of crap for ages because Empire just flat out had better cav options with Demigriffs. And Greatswords were annoyingly cost-effective, you'd happily trade them into Orc and Dwarf frontlines. After a lot of patching they've become way more of a combined arms faction where they have a lot of options they can bring for every occasion which is their real strength. Give the WH3 crowd some time to get some balance passes and they'll probably get adjusted to the same level.
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Mar 15, 2022 15:19
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Ravenfood posted:Now that I have the cash it's time to just keep pumping them out I guess. Panfilo posted:That's not the reason, the AI can react immediately while the player is usually responding a few seconds into the spell animation. It was like this in WHII with bombardment spells and artillery. As soon as you click the area with hailstorm the AI is moving units out of the way, by the time you see the enemy version 1.5 seconds have passed.
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Mar 15, 2022 15:36
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:And what I'm saying is that even when I see it immediately, the AI clearly can get its troops to move more precisely and quickly than when I try to do the same thing. More AI cheats
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Mar 15, 2022 15:39
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:I do all my ice casters as lords and heroes as Tempest, with a few Ice heroes sprinkled in, in case I want to pop two casters into a Boyar's army. Besides, the AI will not do that if it is engaged in melee or shooting. The easiest way to hit lots of units with hailstorm is to take an ice kitty and run through two units, as soon as they turn towards it drop the spell. Once it starts hitting the ground and stunning enemies you can move the kitty back to safety.
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Mar 15, 2022 16:27
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the only faction I have played are Ogres so my thoughts on empire are that melee gets ignored or crowed to death and Karl Franz can rot in piss
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Mar 15, 2022 16:32
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Panfilo posted:The AI has a head start. By the time you see the spell up in the sky it had been casted nearly 2 seconds prior. Again, this has been a thing since WHII. The AI knows exactly how fast it's units will accelerate and how quickly they turn around. When I fire bombardment spells I'll see the AI start moving units away before the 'cloud' even forms.
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Mar 15, 2022 16:42
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If this game is a prequel to the events of TWWH1 I wonder how the old empire campaign intro plays into it: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z26ipp8WnW0 Note Karl Franz ascending to unite the empire following some kind of military catastrophe in the frozen north. I also think the Immortal Empires game will be basically the internal sequel to the realms of chaos campaign.
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Mar 15, 2022 16:46
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If One was the last and the last DLC was Norsca and the optimal choice was to punt Archaon then canon is Wulfric The Everchosen. Or Throgg.
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Mar 15, 2022 17:05
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Not sure if it’s been discovered but in Slanessh’s realm - if you rush to the portal with the quest battle at the end and just sit there - the AI won’t attack you so you can just wait/replenish/build-up your stack in peace Might not work with the AI that are at war with you but I just did it with Tzarina
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Mar 15, 2022 17:37
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Ritz On Toppa Ritz posted:Not sure if it’s been discovered but in Slanessh’s realm - if you rush to the portal with the quest battle at the end and just sit there - the AI won’t attack you so you can just wait/replenish/build-up your stack in peace Yes, I've had Skrag picking his nose down there four times hoping somebody tries it.
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Mar 15, 2022 18:06
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Twigand Berries posted:Yes, I've had Skrag picking his nose down there four times hoping somebody tries it.
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Mar 15, 2022 18:48
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:I hope he doesnt put that in his pot. I mean his nose would come clean off if we were going by the literal sense.
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Mar 15, 2022 20:20
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| # ? Jun 3, 2024 07:34 |
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my boy here has the gift of tzeentch or some sort of complex or something hope he works it out edit: also diplomacy kind of resets suuuuuper fast because I'm playing this campaign as a do what I want always but sell whatever diplomacy offers come to me and I go from the lowest rating of all (like I peace out for $$ and then attack the next turn) to Super Reliable over and over and the AI keep letting me do the same poo poo over and over. edit2: I think they are terrified so kind of throwing the deals at me like they know it's the End of Days and like what even is money Twigand Berries fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Mar 15, 2022 |
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Mar 15, 2022 22:08
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