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Yeah I can understand his dislike of the game/certain mechanics even if I disagree. The part he needs to be sheepish about is the tantrum he threw and is continuing to throw. He put up a video yesterday discussing the patch notes and spent the first 7 minutes looking at a poll he put up to see how many people stopped playing for what reason (7% technical reasons, 16% elden ring, 19% realms of chaos, ~50% waiting for IE, 9% still playing regularly, 74000ish votes) he spent a while complaining about how bad it felt that only 9% of his audience were still playing the game he's spent at least a week slamming for bieng poo poo, unfinished and insulting on a personal level. How the gently caress did he think his audience was going to react? He literally told people not to buy the game and boycott dlc, he doesn't get to go all surprised pikachu that they listened to him. OwlFancier posted:If the complaint is that the game is bad then it makes ample sense to go after the developers. Like you can use the tactic to get whatever you want it doesn't just have to be used for labour disuputes or whatever. How are you, a streamer with no actual ties to the game dev company, going to enforce your demands other than just disengaging while bieng able to bring no other pressure to bear on them? You can't stop work on their product, disrupt their supply chain or directly harm their profits other than hoping people listen to you when you say "Don't buy their stuff"? Carcer fucked around with this message at 10:34 on Mar 20, 2022 |
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Mar 20, 2022 10:30
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TheLastRoboKy posted:Do not wish upon the brown shooting star I beg of you When you wish upon a shart, makes no difference who you are,
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Mar 20, 2022 10:35
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Kanos posted:Honestly the only comically stupid part of Legend's entire meltdown was him actively going off like an immature moron on stream. Him going "yeah I'm not happy with how the game is right now and I'm not terribly happy about my experience in the creator program so I'm backing off on streaming until the game is in a better spot" would be completely reasonable. I honestly even agreed with a fair amount of his grievances(though not all of them). He did seem to severely misunderstand what his relationship with CA was; I only saw the written statement, but he implied that he expected to be involved in the actual game dev, as opposed to being a marketing tool. It came off as fairly naive. Vagabong fucked around with this message at 10:51 on Mar 20, 2022 |
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Mar 20, 2022 10:49
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I don't really get the issue with what listening to his input would have been? It seems to mostly be "The Realms of Chaos campaign loving sucks" which seems like a really common complaint to the point that even CA are going "Yeah maybe we should make this suck less." Based on how this thread acts about him you'd imagine he was saying poo poo like "They should rename Legendary to Easy and rebalance it from there" and "Remove all melee from the game" or something. Incidentally while he wasn't really even getting caremad about the 10% retention figure on his poll, I'd imagined he'd be less shocked by the poll considering the retention rate on Steamcharts is around......10%
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Mar 20, 2022 11:24
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Vagabong posted:He did seem to severely misunderstand what his relationship with CA was; I only saw the written statement, but he implied that he expected to be involved in the actual game dev, as opposed to being a marketing tool. It came off as fairly naive. I can see where he'd get that idea when sooooooo much of his content is about breaking their systems with cheese and edge cases, and offering critiques (to his veiwers). I can see how you'd just kind of assume that they were interested in your ideas, not just the size of your viewerbase.
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Mar 20, 2022 12:11
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When we were kids we all thought we could make the greatest game ever if only we were game developers. Does legend have any unique insights about the game that should mean he deserves a seat at the big boy's table? Because I'm fairly sure "the campaign is poo poo" is not a unique insight
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Mar 20, 2022 12:24
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Vagabong posted:He did seem to severely misunderstand what his relationship with CA was; I only saw the written statement, but he implied that he expected to be involved in the actual game dev, as opposed to being a marketing tool. It came off as fairly naive. He certainly seemed to forget he was initially blacklisted by CA for being too harshly critical of them (not in a relevant critical way, the "you're loving stupid" way), also y'know the whole arranging his units in swastika formations thing.
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Mar 20, 2022 12:29
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Charitably, someone who understands your campaign in and out is a useful source of information when determining if the campaign-level mechanics are fun and rewarding or not. He definitely had an outsized mental image of what being in their "creators program" meant with regard to his input. He honestly seemed to think it meant that he would have real designer input on the game, which is extremely naive.
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Mar 20, 2022 12:32
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Rabelais D posted:When we were kids we all thought we could make the greatest game ever if only we were game developers. Does legend have any unique insights about the game that should mean he deserves a seat at the big boy's table? Because I'm fairly sure "the campaign is poo poo" is not a unique insight Though apparently an insight that nobody at CA had prior to the game being released.
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Mar 20, 2022 12:47
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Has anyone figured out something cool and broken to do with ally recruitment? I've tried a few empire and dwarf troops as Kislev but always felt I'd rather have my own units, especially with lord and tech bonuses. Underwhelming.
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Mar 20, 2022 12:51
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OwlFancier posted:Though apparently an insight that nobody at CA had prior to the game being released. I'm so loving curious what the feedback section looked like in the content creator area. Since if it was everyone going "Dude the campaign blows also how come when I hire and disband a general the number doesn't go back to normal" I will die laughing. Like the vibe I'm getting is more they complained in the discord and CA went "Yeah we'll totally look into it" as opposed to LotW writing loving letters to the editor. Chucat fucked around with this message at 12:54 on Mar 20, 2022 |
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Mar 20, 2022 12:52
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Kuiperdolin posted:Has anyone figured out something cool and broken to do with ally recruitment? I've tried a few empire and dwarf troops as Kislev but always felt I'd rather have my own units, especially with lord and tech bonuses. Underwhelming. Getting Welves with anyone is pretty amazing, especially if you get Welves with Slaanesh, they're such a nice plug for Slaanesh's weaknesses.
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Mar 20, 2022 13:00
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Kuiperdolin posted:Has anyone figured out something cool and broken to do with ally recruitment? I've tried a few empire and dwarf troops as Kislev but always felt I'd rather have my own units, especially with lord and tech bonuses. Underwhelming. Oddly, I think the outpost system will probably be most useful for the demons since they have obvious holes in their roster that Kislev and Cathay don't.
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Mar 20, 2022 13:01
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Ogres also start diplomatically neutral with everyone, and whilst it's overall better to go Order-aligned for the trade bonuses, you could buddy up with Chaos to splash daemons into your big boi armies.
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Mar 20, 2022 13:03
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For reference, this is the stream that comes off a lot worse than the written statement imo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vz2fYjeE4YU
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Mar 20, 2022 13:22
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'I can be their best ally or their worst enemy' This dude loving rules lmao
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Mar 20, 2022 13:53
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watched a bit of his patch note video and as he reads the chaos curse reduction he complains "not good enough" it should be fully removed, on to next line where it says the curses go away fully when you win the realm. not good enough! Its still "fake difficulty" even though thats exactly how all of the difficulty in this game is.
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Mar 20, 2022 13:59
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if you are not laughing at legend I don't know what to tell you he is serious but don't take him seriously
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Mar 20, 2022 14:04
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legendary player who has to cheese game to break it is broken brained
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Mar 20, 2022 14:04
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DaysBefore posted:'I can be their best ally or their worst enemy' Now he just needs one of those down the middle "I can be your angel, or your devil" pictures.
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Mar 20, 2022 15:41
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Vashro posted:watched a bit of his patch note video and as he reads the chaos curse reduction he complains "not good enough" it should be fully removed, on to next line where it says the curses go away fully when you win the realm. not good enough! Its still "fake difficulty" even though thats exactly how all of the difficulty in this game is. is he actually wrong what do the chaos traits actually add to the game, especially when the AIs don't even get them? The rant is funny, and stopping streaming for now was obviously a good decision for his mental health, but a lot of people in the thread seem to have a knee jerk response to legend whatever he does Third World Reagan posted:legendary player who has to cheese game to break it is broken brained like this isn't even hiding that their problem isn't with any stupid stuff legend has said, but just that they hate it when people cheese a single player game
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Mar 20, 2022 15:44
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Staltran posted:is he actually wrong Generally speaking the idea behind the Chaos Realms is that anyone who isn't supposed to be there (rivals and mortals) generally suffer under the corrupting influence of the raw magical energy within the region aligned to any god-entity ascendant to the region. It was likely intended as flavour with an element of trying to encourage a player to be more frenetic and risky in their pace through those realms (I have no proof of this it came to me in a dream), because they are a hostile place you should not want to be lingering around in farming enemy mobs or shopping for Khorne weapons. Of course the problem was that its original incarnation fumbled the lore part by making certain LLs be negatively affected by the corruption of their own patron god, and the cleansing process then became a problem that messed up your primary fighting stack and generally ruined the pace of your gameplay outside the realm with your rivals left unaffected. They might have made it so AI Lords did not get those negative traits because the devs would have to gently caress around so the AI would understand the cleansing process for those traits (I have no proof of this I consulted tea leaves and made up the result), and if their intention is to have them removed when someone leaves a realm then they absolutely should update it to make AI armies get them during their Chaos Realm stays.
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Mar 20, 2022 16:01
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Had a starting ice maiden that had both - 30% Upkeep on war sleds AND little groms. Didn't think it was possible!
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Mar 20, 2022 16:04
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I don't think the chaos realm traits are that huge a deal because you can get rid of them, but they are kind of annoying and slow the game down. What I hate are the character traits that you get from spending time in lands with lots of a specific chaos influence which is something you kind of have to do in order to play the game since a huge chunk of the map is under chaos influence.
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Mar 20, 2022 16:08
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Chucat posted:Why would he sheepishly come back when he went "I'll come back when the game is fixed." --> "Oh they fixed the game, guess I'll come back", isn't that literally him doing what he said he'd do? Fair enough, I was probably out of line. The timing just seemed funny to me is all. "This game is unplayable" followed by a major patch within less than 2 months doing exactly what was requested. Though now he has a new video up and it's "not good enough"? At this point I assume WH3 will have a hatebase until TW WH40K is doing pre release hype. Staltran posted:is he actually wrong The AIs should get them and I should be able to hover over their Has Chaos Traits map icon and see what weakness I can exploit. Otherwise this is a really big divide between developer and player for many games. In a vacuum it seems perfectly logical. Why should a game feature anything that isn't fun? Does a game with perfect accessibility, comfort and ease of play mean you have a great game? In many cases No. It may be a good pick depending on the player(new gamers, young kids, people looking to destress, people who the gameplay is perfectly fun and engaging for them, low reflex/disabled gamers, etc) but if EVERY game used this principle you'd be surprised how many good games get worse, even though they took out your least favorite parts. Rough patches make the other parts look better, you can create moments of great tension and challenge where overcoming it, finally, gives the player great satisfaction and relief. You can also create a cycle of intense, stressful action followed by a period of relief, i.e. managing your empire vs entering the realm vs getting out and recovering. Some factions don't get this as smoothly as others(compared Greasus to a Kislev playthrough, lol) and that's part of why the realms do need adjustment. In the context of WH3 and WH in general the chaos realms are capital D Dangerous. They are unnatural, impossible, incomprehensible death traps where no good can come, not even strained or hard won good. They should be incredibly dangerous, it should be foolhardy to seek them and it should have a lot of risk, though a big issue in WH3 and most of the realms is that a great risk in gaming usually implies great reward. Should the Realms be more convenient? Sure. Don't eat my movement when I touch gates or teleports or enter them or interest points. Don't give the AI a free pass to auto-win the realm because they entered it 1-2 turns before me. Give them an advantage but give me a chance to fight them, to overcome the adversity. But should the chaos realms be like "Oh, they're cool new fighting maps in one of four colors" and nothing else? I don't think so myself and the creators of the game definitely aren't going to agree to that vision, even if a lot of players are really really mad about it. Loads of room for improvement but again the devs can't just immediately do what players ask for every time. The game will have some challenge and part of it is that spending time in the realm of pure entropic chaos is hazardous to your existence. It is a tactical consideration with the traits that you should pay attention to them and be ready to react, especially if you're a melee heavy army and Nurgle starts rotting away your melee defense for example. Though as discussed awhile back the traits would be more interesting if they were give and take instead of pure debuffs. And yes I know some parts in games are so bad that removing them would be a flat upgrade so please don't gotcha me with something like "would you keep the Bed of Chaos in Dark Souls 1?" But CA is already making the realm traits a non issue in the next patch and players are trained to never enter a realm they can't win or don't plan to cheese for gains(Khorne, Slaaneesh) anyway. The traits will auto-clear when you beat the demon prince in the realm. Likely what is needed is a more interesting presentation of the dangers of the chaos realms, a new system or hazards/obstacles. quote:The rant is funny, and stopping streaming for now was obviously a good decision for his mental health, but a lot of people in the thread seem to have a knee jerk response to legend whatever he does There's plenty of stupid stuff in what Legend said, though I mostly limit my smug chuckles to "I thought they finally hired me to make video games, why aren't they hard reacting to my feedback?!" which is just naive. His playing the game cheesily actually taught me to play it straight better so I appreciate the guy.
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Mar 20, 2022 16:10
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I'm willing to bet money that the AI don't get the traits because the AI can't handle like 95% of the systems in these games without falling on the floor and making GBS threads their pants uncontrollably (see: attrition from chaos/vampiric corruption). Ironically this is what Legend was actually saying about fake difficulty, the player gets punished by having to deal with mechanics the AI doesn't have to do because it can't handle it. Most of the difficulty modifiers are pretty much "removal of barriers that let the AI just build big armies and slam them into you without any sort of thought put into it because holy gently caress is it stupid" The changes CA will do won't let them give the traits to the AI because not every AI is going to beat every realm they enter (which is the condition that removes them) and there is no loving way they'll let Kislev just sit there with a -20 control debuff or anything else equally debilitating.
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Mar 20, 2022 16:30
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Staltran posted:like this isn't even hiding that their problem isn't with any stupid stuff legend has said, but just that they hate it when people cheese a single player game Yeah this got thrown at me when I started the last Legend thread circle jerk. It's not that he plays the game like a loving idiot, who cares if he does or that people are entertained by it somehow. I find his personality grating and his channel boring, but that's loving entertainment baby! Nah, the problem is he loving makes his idiot statements and he has too many very online followers and that enables him to talk to me in this thread and I wish he wouldn't.
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Mar 20, 2022 16:31
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Tzeentch is an overpowered faction as a whole package, but man I absolutely hate playing them in campaign because they are awful to play in settlement battles and sieges. It's not even that their units are terribly weak at those, it's that their unit sizes are huge and they rely on ranged combat and trying to maneuver huge ranged units through city streets feels like a literally constant hell battle with the terrible pathfinding and line of sight every single time I do a settlement battle. Trying to get two units of Blue Horrors down a city street in anything resembling a combat formation is like trying to force a bowling ball down a toilet, and Tzeentch's recruitment and replenishment suck so much rear end that it's not like units are actually expendable so you can move them carelessly. In field battles they're hilarious though.
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Mar 20, 2022 16:35
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I was going to say "Don't they lob their shots" which lets you just set up ultra killzones like the sieges in TWW2 but then I realized the fact that towers essentially respawn infinitely sorta throws a wrench in that entire plan.
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Mar 20, 2022 16:37
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Blue Horrors have pretty short shooting range so they're not really going to be able to do cross-street shooting too much.
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Mar 20, 2022 16:40
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Pathing, units losing their orders on contact with a fleeing unit which is every unit in a settlement fight, and I swear to god they have changed the AI to gently caress with the player more and it's ramping up the frustration. Its single minded obsession to attack and use any trick it can think of to isolate and kill off individual weaker units makes it so you have to be on your A game for every battle even the little ones. This is of course amplified in settlement battles as your forces are probably split up, more apt to be isolated, surprise you are isolated because this barricade magically appeared and your support started running in the opposite direction. I can manage stupid traits and the rest it's the above that makes me groan, but I like the changes in store mostly, I'm basically playing the game modded now. No mods for the above yet though. e: To better describe the AI behaviour I am talking about, sometimes I get this feeling battles for the AI aren't "I have arrived to combat your army here at this place" but the AI thinks it's the Dirty Dozen and it's going to use all 5000 of these rat people to take out your weakest units this is a suicide mission Twigand Berries fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Mar 20, 2022 |
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Mar 20, 2022 16:44
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Collapsing Farts posted:How does the vassal stuff with Slaanesh work? These norscans are at 100% seduction but I can't vassalize them? I think vassalizing at 100% seduction costs 100 devotees and has a 10 turn cooldown. Definitely worth it but you need to think a little before grabbing a new faction.
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Mar 20, 2022 16:48
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There's a button you press over their portrait in the diplomacy screen, on the right side near the top. I didn't know about this until I saw it in a video. After running 1.5 Slaanesh campaigns myself.
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Mar 20, 2022 16:55
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Staltran posted:is he actually wrong The reason that is a good thing is because I think, ideally, the strategic layer largely exists to provide interesting battles and to give stakes to the tactical layer. If I have zero pressure than I can just dawdle through and encamp ensure a full stack without any problems. Adding more pressure means I have to weigh that extra delay from more triat removal time with whether or not I can afford to win a battle with a depleted army, which can push for closer, harder fights. Want some kicked weapons from Khorne's realm? There is a cost to that because you're hanging around longer, too. That's my theory, in practice it doesn't work out quite as well. (Imo, the weapons in Khorne's realm shouldn't give full replenishment and the weapon, but one or the other. This would also push you to keep taking fights with a weaker and weaker army which again, can make those fights more interesting and make actually getting all 4 weapons more challenging and therefore rewarding to accomplish.) One thing I don't like is now there is zero reason to not take Slaanesh's bargain on the first go-around because you will never risk anything by it because of how easy it will be to knock anyone ahead of you out of the race. Before it actually had the chance to come back to bite you in the rear end! If you got meaningfully behind those very nice boons could end up being a hindrance, and maybe even force you to try to eliminate the factions actually ahead of you in the race. Which again comes back to the pressures of the strategic map trying to force interesting battles. I like that I chose to keep Katarin out of one cycle of rifts because of my position and I needed her available and it meant that later I had to go send Boris up to hound Kugath for 15 turns so he couldn't beat me in the race. I had some close fights caused by that because I a) had to pull my second best army from defensive areas which meant a lot more close battles with some chumps and b) it felt like a good endurance campaign up north in Nurgle lands since I often had to take a fight on terms I didn't like to keep him from a rift. It was good!
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Mar 20, 2022 16:56
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The more I play the less I am Slaanesh's bitch. Occasionally I pause when they offer the sword and follower together, but otherwise 100k is weed money in this game.
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Mar 20, 2022 17:07
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Twigand Berries posted:The more I play the less I am Slaanesh's bitch. Occasionally I pause when they offer the sword and follower together, but otherwise 100k is weed money in this game. The fact that presumably you keep the Slaanesh corruption traits if you take a deal to get stuff, as opposed to clearing them if you claim a soul adds an additional dimension to it, post-patch.
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Mar 20, 2022 17:41
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in my first campaign i did slaanesh's realm first and took 75k plus that follower that levels up lords super quick. That early cash and experience was a huge boon that allowed me to steamroll the rest of the campaign. By the end, its chump change, but at the start of a campaign, that can really jumpstart your nation and allow the player to play very aggressively to make the most of it
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Mar 20, 2022 17:48
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Collapsing Farts posted:How does the vassal stuff with Slaanesh work? These norscans are at 100% seduction but I can't vassalize them? If you mean you can't actually find the button to vassalise them, it's the Slaanesh looking one next to their portrait in the Diplomacy page. It's kind of in the top/middle left of the screen. Does also take 300 devotees.
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Mar 20, 2022 17:54
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ScootsMcSkirt posted:in my first campaign i did slaanesh's realm first and took 75k plus that follower that levels up lords super quick. That early cash and experience was a huge boon that allowed me to steamroll the rest of the campaign. By the end, its chump change, but at the start of a campaign, that can really jumpstart your nation and allow the player to play very aggressively to make the most of it Yeah the lump sums offered by Slaanesh are pennies in the long run of a campaign, but a huge cash injection early on means that you can jumpstart your economy from "limping along" to "upgrading every building on cooldown" incredibly fast and get your economic snowball rolling way earlier.
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I found that you can enter and cash out with Slaanesh within 3-4 turns if you go for the Circle of Gluttony, I think it is, always within the first 2-3 rings. 25-40k+ gold a pop and 100-200% replenishment at all times for 15 turns. The early aggression this allows is disgusting. "Oh no pyrrhic victory aaaand next turn" Maybe get Paramour/Sword first which requires the later rings and Gluttony every time after.
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Mar 20, 2022 17:58
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