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Lone Goat posted:
you dont want to put people in the situation where they blow up 200 commons for a mythic and then a week later that mythic is worthless and they cant even fix it because it only turns into 4 commons the other way around. that was by far the biggest problem with hearthstone and it directly caused people to leave, as well as causing several other problems which caused people to leave, like wild sucking rear end and having no players. the master duel system offers the supposed benefit "i want these mythics instead of that ones" without inviting people to ruin their own collections because someone told them to and then push themselves out of the game.
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Mar 18, 2022 21:55
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flatluigi posted:you're misremembering it a bit: dusting a rare over there is 1/5th of another rare, 1/50th of an epic, and 1/80th of a legendary -- and you get a quarter of that from dusting commons i think people are also getting confused because in hearthstone a "rare" is really an uncommon.
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Mar 18, 2022 22:07
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Internet Magic cards sound real lame
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Mar 18, 2022 22:12
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jpmeyer posted:i think people are also getting confused because in hearthstone a "rare" is really an uncommon. Not exactly - you're guaranteed at least a rare in an HS pack. It's very rare that you get multiple rares (or above) in a pack. HS does have pity timers, which is a neat gimmick - basically you're supposed to open an epic every 12(?) packs and a legendary every 25(?) packs. As you get a pack, the dice are rolled, and if you do not get an epic or legendary, the odds are increased until you do get one, which then resets the pity timer. It's sort of like an invisible wild card track.
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Mar 18, 2022 22:27
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Drewjitsu posted:Not exactly - you're guaranteed at least a rare in an HS pack. It's very rare that you get multiple rares (or above) in a pack. HS does have pity timers, which is a neat gimmick - basically you're supposed to open an epic every 12(?) packs and a legendary every 25(?) packs. As you get a pack, the dice are rolled, and if you do not get an epic or legendary, the odds are increased until you do get one, which then resets the pity timer. From what I remember rares are basically still uncommons, its more like you're not guaranteed a 'rare' in your back. Anyways, adding a dusting system would require a dramatic overhaul of card acquisition rates and methods to keep them where they want them. Who would take the effort?
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Mar 19, 2022 00:32
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Fantastic Foreskin posted:From what I remember rares are basically still uncommons, its more like you're not guaranteed a 'rare' in your back. You're guaranteed at least a rare in your pack. With changes for multiple rares or your rare being upgraded to an epic or a legendary. Edit: math is in depth here: https://hearthstone.fandom.com/wiki/Card_pack_statistics#:~:text=The%20officially%20announced%20drop%20rates,of%201%20every%2020%20packs. As well as the changes they have made to packs over the years. Legit Businessman fucked around with this message at 00:41 on Mar 19, 2022 |
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Mar 19, 2022 00:38
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It's worth pointing out Magic has an incredibly unfriendly deck size/copies ruleset compared to Hearthstone. It is comparable to Yugioh though as Yugioh needs a 40 card deck + 15 card extra deck (this is not sideboard, extra deck is where the results of fusing monsters and poo poo goes). Hearthstone only needs 30 cards in a deck, there's no sideboards, and you're only allowed 1 copy of any legendary. If a player opens a legendary that's archetype defining in Hearthstone, that is a good signal for that player to start trying to put together the deck. If you open a mythic that you need 4 of for a deck in Magic, that is significantly less meaningful. No real comment on the relative dollar cost of the games to people who seriously want to keep up with constructed, but I'll say if what Arena was doing was significantly easier/harder than Hearthstone, you wouldn't have to do any calculations to figure out which one is nicer about card acquisition.
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Mar 19, 2022 03:26
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Drewjitsu posted:You're guaranteed at least a rare in your pack. With changes for multiple rares or your rare being upgraded to an epic or a legendary. I meant rares suck, compared to the higher rarity cards. Its been a long time since I've played hearthstone though.
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Mar 19, 2022 05:04
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FWIW RE: Hearthstone, for people not intimately familiar with the game's math: • The typical Tier 1-1.5 Hearthstone deck is valued between 1200 and 8000 dust. • The current "best deck", Taunt Druid, with a 63% winrate and by far the most games played, costs about 4500 dust. • A visual breakdown of rarity for that deck is here (think of it as C/U/R/M instead of C/R/E/L):  • A pack of Hearthstone is worth just over 100 dust. • The game typically has a pre-order bundle for each set for $50 (most games, like MtG:Arena, have also found this to be the sweet spot price point), which gives 60 packs. • 60 packs is roughly 6000 dust, which is enough to construct one of several Tier 1 decks. • In-game rewards from regular play probably give you enough for at least a second Tier 1 deck each expansion. • Expansions are 3 per year, last year they also had 3 mini-sets, which extended the accompanying major set (once the mini-set comes out, card packs for the associated major set will also contain cards from the mini-set). It is an exercise for the reader to determine if the expected outlay of $150/yr is a better deal than Arena, but there's the actual numbers. I don't play Hearthstone, but I have a personal expectation that any sufficiently involved hobby is going to cost me, at minimum, a standard streaming service's subscription, so anything in the $10-18/month average is acceptable to me. I don't know if I'd be happy playing the same 1-2 decks for 3 months, but again, personal preference.
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Mar 19, 2022 07:32
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What the hell SCG? They’re doing coverage of the Flesh and Blood event but not the magic one at SCG Con?
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Mar 19, 2022 16:03
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its completely insane to me that you can't trade cards on arena
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Mar 19, 2022 16:19
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kalvanoo posted:its completely insane to me that you can't trade cards on arena economy
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Mar 19, 2022 16:42
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Dehtraen posted:What the hell SCG? They’re doing coverage of the Flesh and Blood event but not the magic one at SCG Con? Flesh and Blood probably paid them for advertisement
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Mar 19, 2022 17:04
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kalvanoo posted:its completely insane to me that you can't trade cards on arena We were supposed to get friend deck sharing but I’m sure that got shelved by hasbro execs
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Mar 19, 2022 17:30
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I've noticed that Arena can lose connection mid-game or mid-draft and it just hangs there without telling you. I waited a few minutes for my P1P5 until I realized I needed to restart at which point the first pack was about done and I had a pile of junk autodrafted. All I want is something to indicate a disconnect so I can reconnect ASAP.
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Mar 19, 2022 21:40
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Salvor_Hardin posted:I've noticed that Arena can lose connection mid-game or mid-draft and it just hangs there without telling you. I waited a few minutes for my P1P5 until I realized I needed to restart at which point the first pack was about done and I had a pile of junk autodrafted. If you complain they’ll refund you the buy in cost every time which is nice, but yeah it is annoying that it’s really tough to tell when the game is hanging vs. normal timeouts though for sure
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Mar 19, 2022 22:27
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Player A casts an Eldritch Evolution sacrificing some 6 CMC creature as part of the cost. Player B casts Commandeer targeting the EE. What happens? We played it like Player B gets to search Player B’s library for a 8 CMC or less creature and put it into play.
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Mar 20, 2022 02:17
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quote:After Commandeer resolves, you control the targeted spell. Any instance of “you” in that spell's text now refers to you, “an opponent” refers to one of your opponents, and so on. The change of control happens before new targets are chosen, so any targeting restrictions such as “target opponent” or “target creature you control” are now made in reference to you, not the spell's original controller. You may either change those targets to be legal in reference to you, or, if those are the spell's only targets, the spell doesn't resolve for having illegal targets. When the spell resolves, any illegal targets are unaffected by it and you make all decisions the spell's effect calls for. So I think you played it right, since the your in “your library” would refer to the player who commandeered the spell.
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Mar 20, 2022 02:22
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Cheers, thanks! It was a Niv pilot commandeering a Naya Stax player who was looking for an Elesh Norn (I’m assuming) to lock the game before another Naya Stax player won with a bunch of Sprolings he got from a humongous Tana. The Niv deck is low on creatures so he just had to get a Captain Lannery Storm lol. CEDH is so fun. fadam fucked around with this message at 02:27 on Mar 20, 2022 |
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Mar 20, 2022 02:23
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fadam posted:Player A casts an Eldritch Evolution sacrificing some 6 CMC creature as part of the cost. Player B casts Commandeer targeting the EE. What happens? We played it like Player B gets to search Player B’s library for a 8 CMC or less creature and put it into play. Once you control the spell it's your spell, so all the "yous" refer to you, the new controller of the Evolution. And just like you don't have to repay the mana you don't have to pay additional costs either: everything is all paid up! I'm not going to look up the cmcs in the reply but it sounds like you played it correctly
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Mar 20, 2022 02:41
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Just to add, that's an extremely sick play
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Mar 20, 2022 02:45
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I had no idea Comandeer even existed until I saw it on the stack but yea it was cool.HootTheOwl posted:Once you control the spell it's your spell, so all the "yous" refer to you, the new controller of the Evolution. And just like you don't have to repay the mana you don't have to pay additional costs either: everything is all paid up! TY
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Mar 20, 2022 02:52
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Salvor_Hardin posted:Just to add, that's an extremely sick play Resolving a commandeer is a sick play upwards of 85% of the time, with ten of the remaining percents being "expensive misdirection" and the remaining five being mistakes on symmetrical effects.
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Mar 20, 2022 05:16
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Commandeer is one of the coolest, swingiest spells in the game and I wish it got to see more play.
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Mar 20, 2022 05:17
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i played a whole bunch of magic ending about 10 years ago. favourite format was draft and i had a cube which i would draft with friends, even doing 1v1 with modified draft variants. recently some friends have expressed an interest in playing again, but they don't want to be weighed down by physical paper and paying money to play, so they found untap.in, which is great. works well and makes drafting quick and easy. they've got me hooked again though and they aren't playing enough for my tastes lol should i play mtgo or mtga? i'm not constrained by playing for free (although when i used to play i'd sometimes do good enough to win enough packs to play sort of for free for stretches at a time), i'm willing to pay a bit of money to play. i'm not godlike but i've played loads of drafts so i'm decent. i know nothing about either app. advice?
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Mar 20, 2022 15:18
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hot cocoa on the couch posted:i played a whole bunch of magic ending about 10 years ago. favourite format was draft and i had a cube which i would draft with friends, even doing 1v1 with modified draft variants. recently some friends have expressed an interest in playing again, but they don't want to be weighed down by physical paper and paying money to play, so they found untap.in, which is great. works well and makes drafting quick and easy. they've got me hooked again though and they aren't playing enough for my tastes lol If you just want to dive in and play magic as it is now with a much smaller upfront cost then arena. Personally I hate arena, but it's really good for drafting with randos E: mtgo isn't an app, I think you /need/ a pc to play it
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Mar 20, 2022 15:34
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hot cocoa on the couch posted:i played a whole bunch of magic ending about 10 years ago. favourite format was draft and i had a cube which i would draft with friends, even doing 1v1 with modified draft variants. recently some friends have expressed an interest in playing again, but they don't want to be weighed down by physical paper and paying money to play, so they found untap.in, which is great. works well and makes drafting quick and easy. they've got me hooked again though and they aren't playing enough for my tastes lol MTGO: Requires money to play You can go infinite if you're good enough Has vintage/legacy/modern cubes available (don't know the schedule they're on) Has non-standard sets available for draft when they release (Modern Horizons, Vintage Masters, etc) Ugly as hell Competition is strong You can cash out your collection on a grey market If you have all the cards you own in game, you could pseudo do a cube (draft would have to be off-client but there's plenty of websites that can do that) but you'd have to lend your friends the cards in client and collect them all back afterwards Available on PC only Arena: Can be played for free, you get roughly one free draft every two weeks if you log in and do your daily quests Going infinite or semi-infinite is very achievable if you have a clue what you're doing Occasionally has cube but only contains sets going back to Amonkhet (with a few random older cards tossed in) Only current standard set release for noncube draft, aside from occasional old sets are available for a couple weeks Looks like a game released this decade Can't cash out aside from selling the entire account (not recommended) Can't share collections so if you cube draft with friends offsite, they'll need to own all the cards they play Available on PC/Mac/mobile
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Mar 20, 2022 15:47
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hot cocoa on the couch posted:i played a whole bunch of magic ending about 10 years ago. favourite format was draft and i had a cube which i would draft with friends, even doing 1v1 with modified draft variants. recently some friends have expressed an interest in playing again, but they don't want to be weighed down by physical paper and paying money to play, so they found untap.in, which is great. works well and makes drafting quick and easy. they've got me hooked again though and they aren't playing enough for my tastes lol If you want to sit down and play some 1v1 magic, Arena. If you want to awkwardly slam your hand in the door to play multiplayer with the other 3 people suffering on the platform, MTGO.
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Mar 20, 2022 15:52
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Does anyone in this thread draft on MTGO? Was wondering about the economics of it given how short supply is for a lot of cards
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Mar 20, 2022 15:57
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MikeCrotch posted:Does anyone in this thread draft on MTGO? Was wondering about the economics of it given how short supply is for a lot of cards It's just like drafting in arena but from inside a jar of honey and you should be aware of the rares/mythics that cost 4x what they do in paper
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Mar 20, 2022 17:11
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MikeCrotch posted:Does anyone in this thread draft on MTGO? Was wondering about the economics of it given how short supply is for a lot of cards basically after the draft you can sell your cards to bots in the trade room (here's one so you can see what the prices are: https://www.goatbots.com/). Prices are heavily weighted towards chase mythics and constructed staples, you won't get a penny for junk rares. You definitely want to be rare-drafting because those chase cards will gain you your entry fee back immediately, and a 2-3 ticket card is often better ev then a solid common. The rake is pretty high so reselling cards is important for being able to string drafts together. Since arena added human drafts I haven't done non-cube drafts on mtgo but at the time the level of play was fairly high so going infinite isn't too realistic. Also drafts are much better ev right after a set comes out and go down over time as the supply/demand stops being in the sellers favor
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Mar 20, 2022 17:29
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Thanks!
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Mar 20, 2022 17:48
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HootTheOwl posted:Resolving a commandeer is a sick play upwards of 85% of the time, with ten of the remaining percents being "expensive misdirection" and the remaining five being mistakes on symmetrical effects. I used to side them in against Tron to snag their Karns. It's such a fun blowout.
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Mar 20, 2022 19:29
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hmm, okay, thanks for the info on mtgo vs arena. i'm leaning toward arena after reading that and a little research, because i basically just want to draft and the smaller cost is attractive. my only qualm is the digital-only nature of the cards vs mtgo where they're treated as a commodity with irl value. i'm not super serious about it but that's the only thing swaying me to mtgo. i'm curious though, since they're both officially licensed software, how much more longevity can mtgo have? surely they don't like having two competing products (3, if you count paper, and mtgo is clearly only alive via it's legacy). has there been any talk at all about shutting it down and what that would look like?
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Mar 20, 2022 19:46
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hot cocoa on the couch posted:hmm, okay, thanks for the info on mtgo vs arena. i'm leaning toward arena after reading that and a little research, because i basically just want to draft and the smaller cost is attractive. my only qualm is the digital-only nature of the cards vs mtgo where they're treated as a commodity with irl value. i'm not super serious about it but that's the only thing swaying me to mtgo. i'm curious though, since they're both officially licensed software, how much more longevity can mtgo have? surely they don't like having two competing products (3, if you count paper, and mtgo is clearly only alive via it's legacy). has there been any talk at all about shutting it down and what that would look like? I don't think MTGO is gonna shut down anytime soon since it has all the paper formats while Arena only has Standard plus its own Alchemy and Historic formats.
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Mar 20, 2022 19:53
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shutting down mtgo is maybe the top thing after removing the reserve list that would get people so upset at wotc that they genuinely would never touch the game again the people who have money to throw around have several thousands of dollars or more invested in mtg and would have that investment nearly zeroed out overnight if that happened
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Mar 20, 2022 21:25
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Last FNM, an elves player went 5-0 against a field of tier 1 decks. Modern can be a lot more open than people realise.
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Mar 20, 2022 22:03
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teppichporsche posted:Last FNM, an elves player went 5-0 against a field of tier 1 decks. Modern can be a lot more open than people realise. I feel like if you made a poll among modern players and asked "Can elves win FNM?", the majority would agree with you.
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Mar 20, 2022 22:06
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teppichporsche posted:Last FNM, an elves player went 5-0 against a field of tier 1 decks. Modern can be a lot more open than people realise. Nobody plays tribal decks anymore, there's too much Plague Engineer!
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Mar 21, 2022 03:46
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drat i absolutely love the aesthetic of this new set
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Mar 21, 2022 05:39
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