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sentiments are also mixed about Endeavor, a talent agency, becoming a self-dealing production company (they’re mixed because Endeavor thinks it’s a good thing and everyone else thinks it’s bad)
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Mar 19, 2022 19:27
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That ebook reads like an extra episode story that they didn’t have the time or budget for. Would’ve been a great standalone flashback episode complete with a twist ending.
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Mar 19, 2022 21:18
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I know the entertainment industry is a sordid business but I dont understand how a big high profile Apple TV show doesnt pay people on time
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Mar 19, 2022 22:40
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mistermojo posted:I know the entertainment industry is a sordid business but I dont understand how a big high profile Apple TV show doesnt pay people on time you clearly haven't spent enough time in the entertainment business And it's not like Apple is really directly involved in this, someone comes to them and says "we have an idea for a show", and then Tim Cook says "yes this is great we'll give you a boatload of cash" or "nah thanks but no thanks"
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Mar 19, 2022 22:55
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Khanstant posted:Oh that blows. Is this a non-union show or is this poo poo they can get away with anyway. It's union and would've been shot before the new IATSE contract (which didn't change much tbh). I've worked with Peter a bunch and he's on the level about calling jobs shitshows. There's absolutely no reason for a job that's shot almost entirely inside to have so many Fraturdays.
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Mar 20, 2022 03:42
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One thing I’ve heard from on set vfx supes lately is that productions are crunching like mad to get shows filmed fast because if a covid outbreak happens the whole thing can fall apart. So they want to get everything in the can faster and faster. I’ve heard of some recent shows where the vfx shoot was cut down to 1 week from 3 because of a covid outbreak, so the vfx supe was working 18 hour days , 7 days straight along with the rest of the crew to get the footage. Another shoot was cancelled entirely because of covid, and the plan for when it was rescheduled is to also try to do it with a week less time.
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Mar 20, 2022 04:20
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The book really pushes the diminutive names thing, now we've got Peggy to go with Petey and... What's Helly short for? Probably Helen or Helena, or could it be Eleanor?
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Mar 20, 2022 17:16
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No one has really said much about that creepy Kier shrine at the beginning of the episode.
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Mar 20, 2022 18:16
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Cojawfee posted:No one has really said much about that creepy Kier shrine at the beginning of the episode.
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Mar 20, 2022 18:21
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I wonder if there's a genetic element to severing, and only some people are eligible. That could explain why Corbel is interested in the kid
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Mar 20, 2022 18:42
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Spraynard Kruger posted:The book really pushes the diminutive names thing, now we've got Peggy to go with Petey and... What's Helly short for? Probably Helen or Helena, or could it be Eleanor? It would be a great shout out to "Dollhouse" in that a main character masquerading as an underling is the big boss/bad of the whole place.
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Mar 20, 2022 19:00
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Cojawfee posted:No one has really said much about that creepy Kier shrine at the beginning of the episode. I meant to ask if those objects in the shrine had special significance beyond mementos that show us the evolution and history of the efforts to... do whatever it is they're doing that we can't know yet. It was also good for showing Cobel to be a true believer, previously I thought maybe she was trying to pull-one over her higher-ups, but now, if she is, it's because her brand of zealotry smells heretics above.
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Mar 20, 2022 22:32
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It definitely seems like there is a cult of Kier that views him as some sort of prophet or god and his descendants are some sort of continuation of his works. Maybe the severance program is a way to have cult members who can't leave and don't know it's a cult. They aren't allowed to have outside information, so there's no way to deprogram them once they've been indoctrinated. And no one on the outside knows what is happening inside Lumon, so there aren't any leaks of terrible cult stuff happening. It makes me wonder if maybe Kier actually did have some sort of cult before and people cracked down on them mormon style. Then, instead of just packing up and running off to Utah, they went underground until they were able to build up this group of unwitting slaves via severing.
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Mar 20, 2022 23:11
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then maybe one day when theyre sufficiently indoctrinated that big lever controlling the chips never gets set back to, “off”
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Mar 20, 2022 23:13
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Tweak posted:then maybe one day when theyre sufficiently indoctrinated that big lever controlling the chips never gets set back to, “off” Ms. Cobell is wearing a severance chip around her neck. If you get the chip removed while inside, can your personality even switch back? Has Cobell, in some sense, stolen the body she's using? Can you juke the system by switching before heading into work, effectively swapping who's in control and where? Like maybe the season could end with Mark trapped down on the severed floor, and his severed version running around upstairs in the real world.
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Mar 21, 2022 00:23
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I don't think the chip switches personalities, the chip is the personality and it turns off the higher functions of the brain and then uses the person as a meat puppet. Which is why what's his face said "that is Petey" or whatever when they were talking about the chip.
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Mar 21, 2022 00:38
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Cojawfee posted:It definitely seems like there is a cult of Kier that views him as some sort of prophet or god and his descendants are some sort of continuation of his works. Maybe the severance program is a way to have cult members who can't leave and don't know it's a cult. They aren't allowed to have outside information, so there's no way to deprogram them once they've been indoctrinated. And no one on the outside knows what is happening inside Lumon, so there aren't any leaks of terrible cult stuff happening. It makes me wonder if maybe Kier actually did have some sort of cult before and people cracked down on them mormon style. Then, instead of just packing up and running off to Utah, they went underground until they were able to build up this group of unwitting slaves via severing. Yeah looking back on episode 2, obviously we’ve speculated that Helly’s outie IS an Eagan but it’s also possible that she’s just a dedicated Kier devotee. Milchick points out the gigantic Kier silhouette artwork thing in the Lumen lobby and says something like “sometimes I just come here and stare at him” which basically says that Helly already knows who Kier is and that that’s him because she doesn’t seem to question who “him” is. He also says “you know he drank two eggs in milk” or whatever he says was his breakfast every morning. And Helly says something like “so I’ve heard”. So our 3 options are: a) literally everybody knows Kier and Kier’s life and poo poo b) Helly is a part of some weird Kier cult already and was a true believer before becoming severed or c) Helly is an Eagen and therefore a descendent of Kier and therefore knew this poo poo Milchick’s “when we heard you were coming here, it was like a miracle” fits b and c. Not so much a, but I’m not discounting the fact that maybe Lumen just says that bullshit to everybody.
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Mar 21, 2022 01:07
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d) it's a steady paycheck and she's being polite.
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Mar 21, 2022 01:37
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Cojawfee posted:I don't think the chip switches personalities, the chip is the personality and it turns off the higher functions of the brain and then uses the person as a meat puppet. Which is why what's his face said "that is Petey" or whatever when they were talking about the chip. I just assumed that the necklace was made out of the Petey chip, since the beginning of the episode shows her twisting the wire around it to make it into a pendant. Not something she wore usually, but a relic she had an opportunity to keep for herself. For a true believer, it seems like it would be quite a reward.
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Mar 21, 2022 01:48
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d seems by far the least likely outcome at this point. I also think her "you are not a person" to Helly wasn't just stone-cold denial of her own innie's personhood and rights, it was also a literal statement of fact: the Helly we know exists in the Severance chip and may be itself a construct of a person created by design who really didn't have a chance to exist in the real world.
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Mar 21, 2022 02:03
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D would also make for a really dumb and uninteresting solution to the mystery. Not sure why anybody would even speculate something so disappointing.
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Mar 21, 2022 02:26
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Helly being someone big in the Eagan family seems lame, and her being some reporter trying to get info out doesn't make sense and seems unfeasible. Why does there need to be a mystery about who she is when there are already so many other, more interesting mysteries? She can just be some woman who needed money and she doesn't give a poo poo about the fake person that lives in the chip in her head.
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Mar 21, 2022 02:53
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We already have Mark for a plain person just taking a job. Helly being connected to the company as a concept has the most legs to take it places.
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Mar 21, 2022 02:56
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I have a feeling that if you asked Mark before all this Petey stuff happened he probably would have responded similarly to Helley's outie. Maybe not quite as harsh as she was but he definitely wouldn't have quit.
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Mar 21, 2022 03:11
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muscles like this! posted:I have a feeling that if you asked Mark before all this Petey stuff happened he probably would have responded similarly to Helley's outie. Maybe not quite as harsh as she was but he definitely wouldn't have quit. Yeah, he got very defensive about Lumon and severance on his first date with Nikki M James' character. Upstairs Helly was also having her life threatened, and she's been shown to react aggressively when she feels in danger, so that video could have been a show of force. It was certainly something of a bluff -- she never actually punished Helly for trying to kill her.
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Mar 21, 2022 03:19
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Thing to remember about Mark is that he isn't just some random guy who worked at Lumon and ended up on the Severed floor, he purposefully went out of his way to do this after his wife died.
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Mar 21, 2022 03:24
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I've been been rewatching and realized a few subtle world-building things: - The reason Mark was so on edge on that was because of his visit to the Break Room. He may not have remembered, but his brain chemistry was still flooded with all the stress chemicals. - Milchick explicitly referred to Helly's hair as "shoulder length". The _only_ way any of the innies can learn something new about humans is really if one of the department is in that bucket, which was super unsettling to me the more I thought about it
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Mar 21, 2022 03:35
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Cojawfee posted:Why does there need to be a mystery about who she is when there are already so many other, more interesting mysteries? There doesn’t NEED to be, but there are a lot of hints and clues that are leading us to believe that who she is is either interesting or important in some way.
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Mar 21, 2022 04:16
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Buff Hardback posted:- Milchick explicitly referred to Helly's hair as "shoulder length". The _only_ way any of the innies can learn something new about humans is really if one of the department is in that bucket, which was super unsettling to me the more I thought about it I don't understand what you mean by this.
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Mar 21, 2022 04:54
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Cojawfee posted:I don't understand what you mean by this. Up until Helly's there to show them an example of "shoulder-length hair", the other three kinda have no frame of reference for what it is. Similarly, they said "films and a machine to play them", rather than something like a TV or projector, because they wouldn't know that as a concept. (and yes I realize it seems like there's the tricky problem of what memories they do and don't know, because by that logic they don't know how to speak or walk, but I think there was something more world-building by the shoulder length hair being a fact, and not just Milchick pulling a dumb fact out of his rear end)
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Mar 21, 2022 04:57
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Mahoning posted:There doesn’t NEED to be, but there are a lot of hints and clues that are leading us to believe that who she is is either interesting or important in some way.
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Mar 21, 2022 04:59
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Buff Hardback posted:Up until Helly's there to show them an example of "shoulder-length hair", the other three kinda have no frame of reference for what it is. Similarly, they said "films and a machine to play them", rather than something like a TV or projector, because they wouldn't know that as a concept. That ebook that apple put out sort of explains this. The innies have basic concepts of things, they know what movies are, but they don't know of any specific movies or who is in them. So I think the chip has built in definitions for the concept of various things, but no specifics of anything from the outside world.
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Mar 21, 2022 05:24
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emgeejay posted:it's interesting enough to me if she's simply a typical working-class person who's willing to eternally torture a "less than human" consciousness for her own financial security What’s interesting about that when from what we know, that’s basically the story for every other severed employee?
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Mar 21, 2022 05:31
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Mahoning posted:What’s interesting about that when from what we know, that’s basically the story for every other severed employee? We don't know the story of the other employees. All we know about Dylan is that he has a kid and has some shirts. All we know about Irving is that he has a bluray player and the other things from the wellness session. And once again, I don't see a need to have another side plot about her having some other reason for being there when there are already a bunch of interesting mysteries available and limited time in which to explore them. Maybe she's a plant, but that sounds boring to me when I want to know more about what's going on inside Lumon.
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Mar 21, 2022 05:42
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Mahoning posted:What’s interesting about that when from what we know, that’s basically the story for every other severed employee?
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Mar 21, 2022 08:45
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crazysim posted:It would be a great shout out to "Dollhouse" in that a main character masquerading as an underling is the big boss/bad of the whole place. Also, I don't remember that happening? I think the tech guy turned out to be the one who invented the technology or something like that, and the doctor was secretly a fake personality 'cause the real doctor died, but no boss going under cover as a regular employee. Buff Hardback posted:(and yes I realize it seems like there's the tricky problem of what memories they do and don't know, because by that logic they don't know how to speak or walk, but I think there was something more world-building by the shoulder length hair being a fact, and not just Milchick pulling a dumb fact out of his rear end)
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Mar 21, 2022 10:09
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Tiggum posted:Based on my recollection of a highschool psychology class from twenty years ago: it's possible to lose your narrative memories through a brain injury or something - the classic TV-style amnesia - while still being able to recognise and name objects, speak normally, do things you've learned how to do, etc. You just don't know how or why you know any of that stuff. Yeah, procedural and declarative memories are stored separately. One of the most famous examples is the case of Clive Wearing, who suffered brain damage preventing him from remembering more than 30 seconds into the past. He still knows how to walk, talk, play music, etc., but constantly believes that he has recently awoken from coma. He has even been able to learn new skills through repetition, even though he does not remember learning them.
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Mar 21, 2022 10:41
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Tiggum posted:Seems like it would be a weird move to try to link this show in people's minds with that pile of absolute garbage. It's a big plot point in the last few episodes of season 2.
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Mar 21, 2022 11:08
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SimonChris posted:Yeah, procedural and declarative memories are stored separately. One of the most famous examples is the case of Clive Wearing, who suffered brain damage preventing him from remembering more than 30 seconds into the past. He still knows how to walk, talk, play music, etc., but constantly believes that he has recently awoken from coma. He has even been able to learn new skills through repetition, even though he does not remember learning them. Yeah I found this shortly after the show, and everyone who doesn't know about him should watch at least a little of this. His situation is loving terrifying, from his perspective he doesn't even have thoughts. It's like a living death. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_P7Y0-wgos
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Mar 21, 2022 14:53
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| # ? Jun 7, 2024 03:37 |
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Cojawfee posted:Maybe she's a plant, but that sounds boring to me when I want to know more about what's going on inside Lumon. ...surely you can see how the former would very much lead to information about the latter
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Mar 21, 2022 17:09
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