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Man_of_Teflon
Aug 15, 2003

That is a good point - I have not been carrying adults around.

I see pedicab trailers every once in a while on craigslist here, maybe I will snag one of those next time if the price is right!

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CopperHound
Feb 14, 2012

If you live in a place that hasn't been built for cars, a trailer might be more sane. Unfortunately many of us live in a world where any safe bike routes are far from the most direct route if they even lead anywhere useful :patriot:

CopperHound
Feb 14, 2012

How my day is going:
https://youtube.com/shorts/X__gyupyT0M?feature=share

Remember to tip your mechanic if they are willing to work on your budget e-bike without charging extra. They are either very nice or bad at business.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad
I watched that loop like 5 times thinking, ok this time it'll fit :ohdear:

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad
Could be the best bike at the $3000 price point
https://www.theverge.com/2022/3/9/22967229/tern-quick-haul-electric-cargo-bike-price-specs

I'm considering it (and giving up the capability of having 2 child seats on my current cargo bike).

frogbs
May 5, 2004
Well well well

kimbo305 posted:

Could be the best bike at the $3000 price point
https://www.theverge.com/2022/3/9/22967229/tern-quick-haul-electric-cargo-bike-price-specs

I'm considering it (and giving up the capability of having 2 child seats on my current cargo bike).

$2999 is a good price point, but it also so close to the $3199 of the HSD. Will be interested to see if the only difference is how long the bike is…

evil_bunnY
Apr 2, 2003

buying a freewheel bike in 2022 for $3k is real silly.
The HSD is a better idea imo

CopperHound
Feb 14, 2012

evil_bunnY posted:

buying a freewheel bike in 2022 for $3k is real silly.

term website posted:

CASSETTE/FREEWHEEL:

Shimano 11-34T, 8 spd
I would assume it is a cassette. I don't think Shimano makes 8 speed freewheels.

frogbs
May 5, 2004
Well well well

CopperHound posted:

I would assume it is a cassette. I don't think Shimano makes 8 speed freewheels.

Yeah, they'd have to go out of their way to spec a freewheel, at this point I think a casette & hub hub would be cheaper given how much more common they are.

School of How
Jul 6, 2013

quite frankly I don't believe this talk about the market
This is what I want for my next ebike:

It must have a front suspension. It may have a rear suspension, but that is not necessary. I need to be able to ride fast (20mph) along bumpy gravel roads.

It must have a cargo rack in the back that is capable of mounting spare battery capacity. My Verve+2 has a rear cargo rack, but the local bike shop tells me there is no way to mount a spare battery on the rack. They told me spare batteries are not even available. I checked trek's website, and they aren't even listed. Ebay has none either.

Also, I'd like for it to have a smartphone operated battery interface. A lot of bikes I see have these awful screens on them that look like they're from the early 2000s. I take my smartphone every time I ride anyways, so why not utilize it as the display? This way I can also bring up google maps and everything else on my phone. There should be an app that lets me change the power settings, and see my speed and battery level, etc.

Basically my riding style is to go on long road trips along bumpy dirt roads. I want to carry as much battery capacity as possible for longest rides. I don't even mind stopping to swap out the battery. The spare batteries don't even need to be wired in...

Is there a bike on the market that meets all of these needs?

School of How fucked around with this message at 23:28 on Mar 12, 2022

halokiller
Dec 28, 2008

Sisters Are Doin' It For Themselves


What's your budget? If money is no object, some of the R&M bikes have full suspension, can carry two batteries, and lets you use your phone as a display.

Citizen Z
Jul 13, 2009

~Hanzo Steel~


Dost makes a dual battery bike. I've got my eyes on their belt drive/IGH option.

https://dostbikes.com/

evil_bunnY
Apr 2, 2003

CopperHound posted:

I would assume it is a cassette. I don't think Shimano makes 8 speed freewheels.
My bad, I meant 8 speed and hosed up. Thanks for the correction

Fred Dawes
May 10, 2009

Visiting Turkey at the moment and seeing lots of electric bikes, scooters, and mopeds compared to my hometown in East coast USA. Pretty cool to see people enjoying electric bikes.

School of How
Jul 6, 2013

quite frankly I don't believe this talk about the market
I just ran into a big problem with my Trek Verve+ 2. Ever since I first got it, it has had this problem where the chain will pop off the front gear. In the first 750 miles of riding, this happened to me about 5 or 6 times. Each time it happened, I was able to get it back on the chainring.

So I take it to my local bike shop because they told me after I put 40 hours on the bike to bring it back for a free tune up. When I took it there, I told them that everything was fine with the bike except for the chain popping off all the time. Then they tell me it will be 5 days of waiting before they will even look at it. 5 days later, I get a call from the bike shop and they tell me that the chain was too far stretched out, and that I would need a new chain and that will fix the problem with the chain popping off. They also charge me $25 for the new chain. When I get the bike back, on mt second ride, the chain pops off.

So then after I came home I decided to do some googling, and found this: https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/trek-verve-2-chain-is-constantly-slipping.35298/

Apparently, this issue was known since at least July 2020, and I bought my bike September 2021.

The first solution was to replace the stock chain ring with a "narrow wide" chain ring, all covered by warranty. Apparently even with the narrow wide chainring, I'm finding forum posters reporting the chain still pops off, so another solution was rolled out my Trek, and that was to install a chain guard thing: https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/dropped-chain-on-trek-verve.45280/#post-470956

For over a year there has been two known fixes by Trek for this issue, and my LBS decided to charge me for something that didn't even fix the problem. this really pisses me off. I have three options: 1)Take it back to my LBS, and demand they either install the spacer things, or the NW chainring. The second option is to just buy the tools and just try to fix it myself. Or the third option which is to just try to sell it on craigslist and buy another ebike that I build and maintain myself instead of relying on incompetent local bike shops.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad
You sound kinda mad, but you can just channel that into installing the narrow wide ring, which should be easy with the investment of a mini tool, which you should get if you’re riding frequently.

If your LBS is a Trek shop, you should light them up to corporate.

frogbs
May 5, 2004
Well well well

School of How posted:

I just ran into a big problem with my Trek Verve+ 2. Ever since I first got it, it has had this problem where the chain will pop off the front gear. In the first 750 miles of riding, this happened to me about 5 or 6 times. Each time it happened, I was able to get it back on the chainring.

So I take it to my local bike shop because they told me after I put 40 hours on the bike to bring it back for a free tune up. When I took it there, I told them that everything was fine with the bike except for the chain popping off all the time. Then they tell me it will be 5 days of waiting before they will even look at it. 5 days later, I get a call from the bike shop and they tell me that the chain was too far stretched out, and that I would need a new chain and that will fix the problem with the chain popping off. They also charge me $25 for the new chain. When I get the bike back, on mt second ride, the chain pops off.

So then after I came home I decided to do some googling, and found this: https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/trek-verve-2-chain-is-constantly-slipping.35298/

Apparently, this issue was known since at least July 2020, and I bought my bike September 2021.

The first solution was to replace the stock chain ring with a "narrow wide" chain ring, all covered by warranty. Apparently even with the narrow wide chainring, I'm finding forum posters reporting the chain still pops off, so another solution was rolled out my Trek, and that was to install a chain guard thing: https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/dropped-chain-on-trek-verve.45280/#post-470956

For over a year there has been two known fixes by Trek for this issue, and my LBS decided to charge me for something that didn't even fix the problem. this really pisses me off. I have three options: 1)Take it back to my LBS, and demand they either install the spacer things, or the NW chainring. The second option is to just buy the tools and just try to fix it myself. Or the third option which is to just try to sell it on craigslist and buy another ebike that I build and maintain myself instead of relying on incompetent local bike shops.

Do not do option 3, because you're going to have the same problem with tons of bikes. This isn't an e-bike specific thing, this is just 'having a bike and riding it a lot' thing. Sometimes the chain comes off! I'd say definitely try a narrow wide chainring, as well as a 'bash guard/bash ring', which is what it looks like they put on that guys bike in the thread you linked. The part they put on there is from 'FSA', which is not a Trek brand, so my hunch is that shop just did it to help this guy out.

School of How
Jul 6, 2013

quite frankly I don't believe this talk about the market

frogbs posted:

Do not do option 3, because you're going to have the same problem with tons of bikes. This isn't an e-bike specific thing, this is just 'having a bike and riding it a lot' thing. Sometimes the chain comes off! I'd say definitely try a narrow wide chainring, as well as a 'bash guard/bash ring', which is what it looks like they put on that guys bike in the thread you linked. The part they put on there is from 'FSA', which is not a Trek brand, so my hunch is that shop just did it to help this guy out.

I've been riding bikes for 30 years and I've had the chain come off maybe 10 times ever. With this trek Verve+2, the chain comes off once every three or four rides. It's come off like 5 times in 700 miles. Its definitely a design flaw, and not in any way normal. It wouldn't be so bad if I could remove the chain guard. The stupid chain guard is hard to remove, and you have to remove it to reseed the chain sometimes. They didn't design the chain guard with easy removal in mind. The screws that use to fasten them on aren't exactly quick release. The janky screws they use are already wearing out the threads in the chain guard from removing it so many times.

The problem is that you can't take off the chain guard unless you have a crank puller, which I do not have. I'm seriously debating getting a dremmel, and just cutting the chain guard out.

Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004

Is your frame truly square?

Dren
Jan 5, 2001

Pillbug
I have been ogling ebikes for a bit because I realized that a class 3 bike at 28 mph could probably do my commute as fast as or faster than a car due to being able to ride around traffic. The class system is really bumming me out though. Bike trails and my local singletrack are limited to class 1 so I’d be forced to choose between commuting and recreation. These rules really suck. People blast down the MUPs on regular bikes all the time, even on the MUPs with a 15 mph limit people are doing 25+. It’s not an issue of the machine being capable it’s an issue of responsibility. Anyway I’m just venting cuz I got all excited only to find out the laws create a difficult choice.

Sphyre
Jun 14, 2001

How would that even be enforced?

acidx
Sep 24, 2019

right clicking is stealing
If you're doing throttle only wheelies at 30mph on a trail, or going 35 while you blow past walkers or conventional bike riders, you are likely to get flagged down, but as long as you don't ride like an rear end in a top hat the classes don't matter too much. I would go with a bike that tops out in the 25-30 range and just take it easy and don't give anyone a reason to give you poo poo on trails.

acidx fucked around with this message at 09:48 on Mar 22, 2022

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA
I've read about the NYPD or someone explicitly going after ecyclists, but I imagine just other localities don't actively enforce. Unless, as above, either someone's behaving especially lovely or there's a local anti-bike krank with excessive clout.

It's definitely a good idea to reach out to your reps on the issue to press for evolving the trail rules.

halokiller
Dec 28, 2008

Sisters Are Doin' It For Themselves


Agree with above and just avoid a design like Sur Ron (which straight up looks like a dirtbike) and you should be fine.

Duck and Cover
Apr 6, 2007

I've learned if you're fast enough things can't catch you. Trust me egg shaped doctors don't stand a chance!

Dren
Jan 5, 2001

Pillbug
I was looking at a specialized and the shop that sells those around here is owned by the guy who maintains the trails and rides them all the time so if I buy from him he's gonna def know what I'm up to. If I go this route I'll probably have a convo with him first to see if this is a really strict rule or more of a "don't be an rear end in a top hat and we don't have a problem" rule.

Belmont Geoffrion
Sep 25, 2007
o bby
I'm shopping for something to use instead of my lovely old truck for my commute once or twice a week, 30 miles both ways with less than 600 feet of elevation gain. Budget of not much over $2000. Something that could handle gravel/dirt roads, and I really like a retro moped look. I've been considering the RadRunner 2/+, Juiced Scorpion X or something from Hemiway but I'd really like to buy something that will last and I can't find much reliable info about how any of these do after a significant amount of mileage. Is that unrealistic at this price point? Being able to carry some cargo and having good range is a lot more important to me than speed.

bicievino
Feb 5, 2015

Dren posted:

I was looking at a specialized and the shop that sells those around here is owned by the guy who maintains the trails and rides them all the time so if I buy from him he's gonna def know what I'm up to. If I go this route I'll probably have a convo with him first to see if this is a really strict rule or more of a "don't be an rear end in a top hat and we don't have a problem" rule.

Figuring out the lay of the land is key.
For context, this is an issue that is very dependent on the ownership of the trails you want to use and the relationship of the local community with that land ownership/management. In many places, just getting Class 1s approved took huge fights, and pushing the limits could remove that entirely. For some folks that would be a bit of a bummer, for folks who need adaptive use options it could mean they just don't get to enjoy the trails at all.

CopperHound
Feb 14, 2012

Belmont Geoffrion posted:

I'm shopping for something to use instead of my lovely old truck for my commute once or twice a week, 30 miles both ways with less than 600 feet of elevation gain. Budget of not much over $2000. Something that could handle gravel/dirt roads, and I really like a retro moped look. I've been considering the RadRunner 2/+, Juiced Scorpion X or something from Hemiway but I'd really like to buy something that will last and I can't find much reliable info about how any of these do after a significant amount of mileage. Is that unrealistic at this price point? Being able to carry some cargo and having good range is a lot more important to me than speed.
If you actually plan on pedaling at all, I strongly suggest you don't choose the Juiced Sorpion and get something with an adjustable height bike saddle.

SamsCola
Jun 5, 2009
Pillbug

Belmont Geoffrion posted:

I'm shopping for something to use instead of my lovely old truck for my commute once or twice a week, 30 miles both ways with less than 600 feet of elevation gain. Budget of not much over $2000. Something that could handle gravel/dirt roads, and I really like a retro moped look. I've been considering the RadRunner 2/+, Juiced Scorpion X or something from Hemiway but I'd really like to buy something that will last and I can't find much reliable info about how any of these do after a significant amount of mileage. Is that unrealistic at this price point? Being able to carry some cargo and having good range is a lot more important to me than speed.

I'll endorse the RadRunner. I have the original version that I mostly use for grocery shopping. I routinely exceed the weight capacity and nothing has complained.... Yet.....

With that bike in gravel, you'll definitely want the gears on the plus model and probably some after market shocks. You can also get a hydraulic brake set on AliExpress for less than $100. 30 miles is close to the end of the battery range, so be prepared to bring a charger with you.



Most of the bits on the bike are pretty standard and you can easily replace them with after market stuff when they brake. The only thing I ran into recently that was weird (on the RR original) is that the chain tensioner is held in by an M10x1mm bolt. It's a fine thread that I just wasn't able to locate a replacement for (in aluminum or titanium). Ended up getting the replacement from Rad but it took a while.

Hdip
Aug 21, 2002
https://www.mcmaster.com/ Is where I go to fulfill all my odd bolt needs.

SamsCola
Jun 5, 2009
Pillbug

Hdip posted:

https://www.mcmaster.com/ Is where I go to fulfill all my odd bolt needs.

Yep, love McMaster. I can find M10x1.5 and M10x1.25 in aluminum, but nothing finer. There were some steel bolts available, but I worry about galvanic corrosion, since the frame is aluminum.

acidx
Sep 24, 2019

right clicking is stealing
Been building a Surly Wednesday fat ebike that's going to be driven by a 1000w middrive motor for the last couple months. My internally geared hub that was on backorder forever has finally come in, so the next step is to get the wheels laced up.



The idea is to have the bike capable of biketouring and bikepacking pretty much anywhere, while still being nice and comfortable to ride. My back isn't the best, so I got bmx handlebars for a more upright ride. The 4.3" tires and front suspension should take the edge off terrain, and I'll pair that with a suspension seatpost and a nice brooks seat for long days in the saddle. The IGH comes with a 3 speed twist shifter. Ergon has sets of their grips with a short one on the right to accommodate the twist shifter, and it looks like it's going to work great. Just enough room to fit the brakes.



The crossbar is the same diameter as the handlebar grip area, so I will end up mounting most of the electrical components on that.

Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005



Belmont Geoffrion posted:

I'm shopping for something to use instead of my lovely old truck for my commute once or twice a week, 30 miles both ways with less than 600 feet of elevation gain. Budget of not much over $2000. Something that could handle gravel/dirt roads, and I really like a retro moped look. I've been considering the RadRunner 2/+, Juiced Scorpion X or something from Hemiway but I'd really like to buy something that will last and I can't find much reliable info about how any of these do after a significant amount of mileage. Is that unrealistic at this price point? Being able to carry some cargo and having good range is a lot more important to me than speed.

How much do you weigh, how much cargo are you planning to carry, and how much pedaling are you going to do? Is there charging infrastructure at work?

Something like a RadRunner+ has a range of 45 miles but that’s the extremely optimistic version. A Scorpion is basically going to be all battery since it’s a fixed position and not conducive to pedaling efficiency.

Around 20 watt hours per mile is a baseline for more real world range if you’re using a mix of battery and pedaling. On a RadRunner+ that would give you ~34 miles from a 672Wh battery.

HisMajestyBOB
Oct 21, 2010


College Slice
I'm looking into an e-bike for the first few and last few miles of my commute. It's about 5.5 miles total and there's several large hills, though at least it's all paved. The key requirements are:

1. Bike must be foldable. The middle 20 miles of my commute are by train, and they only allow folding bikes.
2. Budget is about $1,000. I could go a little higher, as long as there's a generous return policy in case this doesn't work out.

I've come across these so far:
1. Swagtron Swagcycle EB-5: Cheap at $600. Reviews are so-so, not unsurprisingly at that price. Might not be a comfortable ride since I'm at the top end of the recommended height range.
2. SDREAM Ur 500X: middle of the three in price. Surprising lack of reviews, unless I'm a dunce at searching for them.
3. The Radmini 4: the most expensive option.

Alternatively, the whole thing is impractical and I end up driving...

Any recommendations or thoughts?

acidx
Sep 24, 2019

right clicking is stealing
No lectric XP 2.0? It's definitely the most popular folding ebike at that pricepoint.

HisMajestyBOB
Oct 21, 2010


College Slice

acidx posted:

No lectric XP 2.0? It's definitely the most popular folding ebike at that pricepoint.

I didn't see it. I'll check it out!

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA
I tried out some super cheap bikes without torque sensors the other day and was amazed to realize just how spoiled I am to have one on mine. The first ebike I ever tried had one and it makes the ride just feel completely natural, while these bikes were much less pleasant rides. Not sure how much of it was just their garbage-tier quality overall.

CopperHound
Feb 14, 2012

Cugel the Clever posted:

I tried out some super cheap bikes without torque sensors the other day and was amazed to realize just how spoiled I am to have one on mine. The first ebike I ever tried had one and it makes the ride just feel completely natural, while these bikes were much less pleasant rides. Not sure how much of it was just their garbage-tier quality overall.
IMO a good ebike is one that you forget is an ebike.

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HisMajestyBOB
Oct 21, 2010


College Slice

HisMajestyBOB posted:

I'm looking into an e-bike for the first few and last few miles of my commute. It's about 5.5 miles total and there's several large hills, though at least it's all paved. The key requirements are:

1. Bike must be foldable. The middle 20 miles of my commute are by train, and they only allow folding bikes.
2. Budget is about $1,000. I could go a little higher, as long as there's a generous return policy in case this doesn't work out.

I've come across these so far:
1. Swagtron Swagcycle EB-5: Cheap at $600. Reviews are so-so, not unsurprisingly at that price. Might not be a comfortable ride since I'm at the top end of the recommended height range.
2. SDREAM Ur 500X: middle of the three in price. Surprising lack of reviews, unless I'm a dunce at searching for them.
3. The Radmini 4: the most expensive option.

Alternatively, the whole thing is impractical and I end up driving...

Any recommendations or thoughts?

So the SDREAM looks like vaporware based on the lack of info outside of sketchy websites and stuff newer than two years old. One review website noted people placed orders and didn't get the bike or got shoddy stuff, so that one's out.
I took a look at the Lectric XP 2.0 and that looks pretty good. Good price and seems to cover what I need. It is on the heavier side though.

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