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TheGreyGhost posted:Honestly, as meh as this QB class is, Ridder and Willis at a minimum challenge for 1 that year. Bad QB drafts are always funny but like: At first it looked like at least one, maybe one and a half decent QBs here but now that this much time has passed I would confidently call this one of the worst QB drafts in history. And your implicit statement seems true to me, this might easily be worse than this current one. Although obviously it will take time to say for sure.
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Mar 22, 2022 16:37
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I think probably at least 3-4 guys will start an average of 8 games this year because I mean teams are projecting to start Drew Lock, Trubisky, Mariota, Darnold, Winston, Goff, Jones.... This may just be a barren year like uh... 2013 where there's simply no value to the prospects and only one team even tries in the first, but who knows. Either way, if those guys are there as day 2 progresses they'll get snatched up eventually because you might as loving well when Drew Lock is plan A.
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Mar 22, 2022 16:47
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Don’t disparage Drew he’s gonna be Seattle’s next bLOCKbuster qb!!!
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Mar 22, 2022 16:50
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Interesting notes from the Texas A&M pro day. I saw him regularly mocked in the 2-3rd rounds. He ran a 5.03. https://twitter.com/LanceZierlein/status/1506291688763019267 https://twitter.com/Marcus_Mosher/status/1506294374073786373
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Mar 22, 2022 16:53
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Kalli posted:I think probably at least 3-4 guys will start an average of 8 games this year because I mean teams are projecting to start Drew Lock, Trubisky, Mariota, Darnold, Winston, Goff, Jones.... trying to figure out which draft was worse for QBs, 2013 or 1996, where the first QB taken off the board was Tony Banks in the 2nd round and it didn't improve from there
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Mar 22, 2022 17:24
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All the cool kids are doing the Zach Wilson pro day throw this year. Has to go #2 overall now. Malik Willis to the Lions. https://twitter.com/SInow/status/1506323921007697926
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Mar 22, 2022 18:49
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Kalli posted:I think probably at least 3-4 guys will start an average of 8 games this year because I mean teams are projecting to start Drew Lock, Trubisky, Mariota, Darnold, Winston, Goff, Jones.... It's funny you used Seattle as an example because they were very willing to roll with their third round rookie after giving Matt Flynn a bunch of money.
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Mar 22, 2022 18:56
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Diva Cupcake posted:All the cool kids are doing the Zach Wilson pro day throw this year. Has to go #2 overall now. Malik Willis to the Lions. Despite his shortcomings he's gonna be the first QB off the board for sure. He can just do things the others can't and every coach and GM will believe that they can develop him into that franchise, super bowl-worthy QB.
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Mar 22, 2022 18:58
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Picketts got some tiny rear end hands but they're still around the same size as Burrow and vick
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Mar 22, 2022 22:16
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Joe's hands are a manly 9 inches. How dare you compare him to prawn finger Pickett
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Mar 22, 2022 22:27
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BlindSite posted:Picketts got some tiny rear end hands but they're still around the same size as Burrow and vick Hands aside that's kind of the questions with Pickett. Joe is a notable exception to the recent popularity (due to certain guys finding success) of the more toolsy quarterbacks. He has to be more perfect than those guys because he just doesn't have their athletic abilities and arm talent, and he largely is. Is Pickett a future Joe Burrow or a future Daniel Jones? Who knows but I definitely lean towards the latter.
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Mar 22, 2022 22:31
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Diva Cupcake posted:Interesting notes from the Texas A&M pro day. I saw him regularly mocked in the 2-3rd rounds. Yeah everyone knew that already. It's why he skipped the 40 at the combine. He's an underneath safety valve/jump ball guy anyway. Jason Witten mid career probably ran a 5.4 with how slow he was developing routes. Either way I think third round is fair for him. Diva Cupcake posted:All the cool kids are doing the Zach Wilson pro day throw this year. Has to go #2 overall now. Malik Willis to the Lions. His footwork is so weirdly bad that it's good. I love it. BlindSite posted:Picketts got some tiny rear end hands but they're still around the same size as Burrow and vick His hands don't matter, he uses gloves. The spin he puts on the ball doesn't need longer fingers because of it. Play posted:Hands aside that's kind of the questions with Pickett. Joe is a notable exception to the recent popularity (due to certain guys finding success) of the more toolsy quarterbacks. He has to be more perfect than those guys because he just doesn't have their athletic abilities and arm talent, and he largely is. Is Pickett a future Joe Burrow or a future Daniel Jones? Who knows but I definitely lean towards the latter. I don't know why you keep using the word toolsy it's starting to piss me off. Other than that he's definitely not Daniel Jones in anyway, shape, or form. Jones was a designed runner and pocket passer which is how he's used in the NFL. Very briefly did Garrett have him doing what Pickett does in college with the designed roll outs. Part of Pickett's success this year was lining up his passing lanes for his speedster WRs. They had him throwing on the move because he's good at it and he needs it. His arm isn't close to being Jones', it's more Kirk Cousins than anything. Tight spiral throws that get where they need to be in a reasonably fast way. Player comps are whatever in general though. Pickett is just clearly going to be used in a moving line offense which the Giants only did briefly under Jones.
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Mar 22, 2022 22:55
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Doltos posted:I don't know why you keep using the word toolsy it's starting to piss me off. Other than that he's definitely not Daniel Jones in anyway, shape, or form. Jones was a designed runner and pocket passer which is how he's used in the NFL. Very briefly did Garrett have him doing what Pickett does in college with the designed roll outs. Part of Pickett's success this year was lining up his passing lanes for his speedster WRs. They had him throwing on the move because he's good at it and he needs it. His arm isn't close to being Jones', it's more Kirk Cousins than anything. Tight spiral throws that get where they need to be in a reasonably fast way. Player comps are whatever in general though. Pickett is just clearly going to be used in a moving line offense which the Giants only did briefly under Jones. I've never heard such a thing as a 'moving line offense,' some offenses do it more or less but never heard them referred to that way. Is that a like a college term? Regardless Pickett throws from the pocket all the time, I've never seen an offense exclusively move the line but I don't watch a lot of college ball. Pitt does do that weird quarter roll thing, which I don't really understand but assume is meant to improve protection or confuse the defense, but I'm not sure that counts and it's definitely not throwing on the run. Besides that has nothing to do with actual player comparisons, it's about the kind of player they are not how they were specifically used. However that was in college it will be different in the NFL, just like how Jones doesn't do a lot of designed runs anymore. I agree that player comparisons are kind of silly and pointless but so is a lot of the things we talk about, also agree the comparison isn't perfect but it's the best one I could come up with! It's kind of a doomed practice because every player, especially QB is gonna be different but I enjoy thinking about it, it helps me evaluate players a bit. Looking into them both what REALLY surprised me was that Kenny Pickett ran a faster 40 than Jones. I couldn't believe that even with the supposed faster turf. Their build is also somewhat similar but yes, no comp will ever be perfect that's the beauty of humans. Also have to agree that toolsy is a pretty lame word, but I'm basically using it as a combination of all around athleticism and raw arm talent/arm strength. Josh Allen is obviously the (current) prototype for both of those. Patrick Mahomes is a little different but he also has that insanely live arm and ability to scramble impressively. Those two being debatably the two best young QBs in the league has front offices wanting that which is a big reason why I believe Willis will be first off the board. Anyways if you wanna watch all of Willis' pro day throws and also listen to Daniel Jeremiah rave in increasingly absurd superlatives about the a man's thighs here you go (tbf thems some nice quads) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3vpcx3Sv20&t=486s
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Mar 22, 2022 23:32
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An offense in which the line moves with the roll outs. It's a description. He does a ton of shotgun but the line most definitely moved for him this year. I assume by quarter rolls you mean plays like this: https://i.imgur.com/HOVaq1A.mp4 https://i.imgur.com/Lzuoqge.mp4 https://i.imgur.com/UWtwC7W.mp4 That's called a design roll out. It's an offense that gained popularity with mobile spread QBs. Daniel Jones has had 127 rushing attempts in the last two years alone. He's 9th in the league in rushing attempts for QBs. Doltos fucked around with this message at 00:03 on Mar 23, 2022 |
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Mar 22, 2022 23:45
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Good poo poo lately draft thread. Good poo poo.
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Mar 22, 2022 23:59
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Did someone run the wrong route or did they intentionally draw up two whip routes with two yards of spacing
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Mar 23, 2022 00:11
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I also want to talk about plays like this: 4 personnel set with 3 wide on the weakside. Typical shotgun play. Then after the snap we get this formation with the line, sealing off the strong side.  There's a reason why the play is drawn up this way. Pittsburgh did this a lot with Pickett. The entire left side of the line is sealed off for the running back in the flat, but that also leaves the right side completely open where his three WRs are. He's supposed to have that in his head in the second option that if the RB can't leak out and the weakside LB shades over he can easily flip his hips and run to the right looking for a developing route. Here it is in action: https://i.imgur.com/nq4o65V.mp4 These are all plays designed for a mobile QB that can throw on the run.
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Mar 23, 2022 00:16
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Doltos posted:I also want to talk about plays like this: So, this is a really good post about roll/shift concepts that I appreciate. I do think there’s some more context to give to these and the way they integrate into schemes now. Let’s say hypothetically, you have a QB who can move—not a true runner but a guy who can do the 4.7 type stuff and extend plays. When you’re an NFL OC, every gameplan is thought of in terms of base and constraint. Base plays as the things you do the best. Constraint plays as things you do well that optimal defense for a base play puts them in the worst possible position to make a play. Now let’s say you have a quarterback who can move, not super well, but enough to leave a pocket for a couple seconds and not die. A lot of modern coaches see this as a way to run something like a flood or mesh style concept where the QB flows with the majority of the routes and has a cleaner window powered by their movement changing launch angles or moving guys out of the base look. You clear a bunch of the offensive line traffic off of them sealing guys initially, and the backside edge is usually allowed to be freeish with the intent of it being the hardest for him to make a play. Sounds super clean, right? One problem. Every traditional rollout flood/PA read for the madden heads concept only works as a change up. If you try to run it as a base play, someone will remember how the run and shoot was beaten—zone blitz from the play side and make the decision quick and uncomfortable. My effort post on the run and shoot made the point that the only protections the offense really ran were half rolls or boots in the event solo blocking doesn’t work. So how do you fix it conceptually? Invite the blitz to the play side in favor of creating a better check/constraint within the play. In the Pitt case here, like Doltos said, they seal the back’s side to keep that check clean and essentially guarantee a worst case 3 yards. Come with an overload from the side with 3 receivers? I hit one of the 3 receivers throwing over the pressure. Come with a slant or 5 man rush across my line instead of an overload? The blocking assignment my QB calls lets him know that the free rusher is most likely coming from an edge, giving him a choice of the quick check to the running back or running the boot/move with the 3 receiver pattern depending on which rusher is free. Double A gap? Either the RB has essentially a free backside screen or I hit the backside receiver over the middle where the backers came. The point being, this is the “pro” version of running a package/RPO play. Instead of designing a pure right zone/bubble combo or other very simple pick and roll type concept, this is a package play that essentially guarantees anything other than a defense that gets pressure out of like clean cover 1/2 has a clearly delineated stress point. We mistake personnel for rigidity in scheme a lot, partially because it was a good shorthand for it when a lot of us started following the sport; but these plays are very very common out of guys like Stefanski in the nfl now as a way of simplifying reads without giving up the advantages of having good 12 personnel or something along those lines. So, what does this mean for Pickett? I think Doltos isn’t super far off with Cousins, albeit I do think people forget at times that Cousins hung balls even more than now coming into the league. Even Jon loving gruden gave him poo poo for hanging sideline outs when he was running his old QB school thing. Matt Leinart comes to mind too, though Pickett moves better than him. You can run plays like this with any QB with foot speed as an equalizer to create some open windows, particularly with receivers who are fast who separate early, even if they’re small and suck at contested catch. Problem is, there’s a ceiling here. If you want to be more than average, you need a killer app. The chiefs run these concepts Kelce as essentially an elite SE/TE hybrid and Hill capable of tagging to run dee. The Rams started running these with tagged vertical double moves because Woods/OBJ/Kupp all had great feel for zones and pressure timing. The niners abuse the backs on these concepts with the intent that a defense might try to guess a run fit on them and leave an open gap. The Bills let Allen threaten the edge or tag in fade/high point concepts where you remove some touch throws in favor of “my guy or no one” throws within the concept. These are becoming more normal as an offensive component, but Pickett doesn’t have a big enough arm to hit those vertical tags, is too jumpy on tape to consistently wait for guys to open up on play extension, lacks elite velocity for immediate “pace in space” reads if you have game breakers, and isn’t fast enough to threaten the edge. It feels a lot like the quandary the Bengals had with Dalton where the offense just necessitated receivers making a play fast because going vertical just wasn’t an option short of a coverage bust. Maybe Pickett tunes up his velocity and creates a window, but you have to have Burrow-caliber placement on downfield/tight throws if you’re not going to get a ball to a receiver faster than a defender, which he’s too jittery and too weak to do.
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Mar 23, 2022 17:36
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Pro Day news https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URplRGs5Tps Garrett Wilson makes some crazy adjustments. Chris Olave is so smooth deep but my god do I worry about those weird body catches he does for fun. CJ Stroud would be QB1 in this class. The Cardale Jones deep ball remains absolutely hilarious to watch.
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Mar 23, 2022 22:05
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the panthers are going to draft a tiny handed, bad qb because he's an "alpha" and i am sad about it
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Mar 23, 2022 23:59
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Hey folks, just popping in to say that the 2022 Goon Draft thread is up and teams are available to be claimed. Stop by, check it out, and see if it's something you might be interested in!
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Mar 24, 2022 00:12
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There are a couple Toolsy guys in this draft class. You see Willis is a Dewalt guy while Willis is more Bosh and Ridder is. Is... This is embarrassing, I only know two brand names for tools. Sorry.
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Mar 24, 2022 04:41
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Eifert Posting posted:There are a couple Toolsy guys in this draft class. You see Willis is a Dewalt guy while Willis is more Bosh and Ridder is. And you spelled one of the two you know wrong (Bosch). You should be embarrassed. There's no DeWalt or Milwaukee in this draft. Just a bunch of Craftsman or Ryobi or Black & Decker's.
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Mar 24, 2022 04:54
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Petition to start describing offensive linemen solely in the terms of large kitchen appliance brands. Charles cross is like a good counter depth Samsung French door fridge—reactive either way but doesn’t explicitly have power from depth.
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Mar 24, 2022 05:02
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Five tool QB: Arm strength, accuracy, precision, hot girlfriend, doesn't mind the team sacrificing their life their rookie season with no o-line
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Mar 24, 2022 05:02
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Doltos posted:Five tool QB: Arm strength, accuracy, precision, hot girlfriend, doesn't mind the team sacrificing their life their rookie season with no o-line Six tools actually—doesn’t have a weird head that makes commercials impossible (bleeds into 5 if he has a rough go)
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Mar 24, 2022 05:04
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loving yikes of a pro day man https://twitter.com/MathBomb/status/1506737551700381714?s=20&t=yg_OWtP8oIavQKgc831RWw
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Mar 24, 2022 05:41
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https://twitter.com/carolinahuddle/status/1506962930331435009?s=21
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Mar 24, 2022 13:45
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Simms' QB ranking for 2021. 1. Zach Wilson, BYU 2. Trevor Lawrence, Clemson 3. Mac Jones, Alabama 4. Kellen Mond, Texas A&M 5. Justin Fields, Ohio State 6. Trey Lance, North Dakota State
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Mar 24, 2022 13:53
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Doltos posted:Five tool QB: Arm strength, accuracy, precision, hot girlfriend, doesn't mind the team sacrificing their life their rookie season with no o-line Hey now they closed that barn door. It has been done. Pay no attention to the horses who are currently in another county. wandler20 posted:There's no DeWalt or Milwaukee in this draft. Just a bunch of Craftsman or Ryobi or Black & Decker's. I like Ryobi. I have like six of their power tools and only three batteries and I do just fine. 
Eifert Posting fucked around with this message at 14:14 on Mar 24, 2022 |
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Mar 24, 2022 14:12
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Eifert Posting posted:Hey now they closed that barn door. It has been done. Pay no attention to the horses who are currently in another county. I almost didn't put Ryobi in there but they are in the tier below Dewalt and Milwaukee, so I felt it fit this QB class. Whoever is your QB1 this year is definitely Ryobi.
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Mar 24, 2022 15:30
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Diva Cupcake posted:Simms' QB ranking for 2021. I would give all those QB's an INC grade. So who's to say he's wrong.
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Mar 24, 2022 16:45
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Well I will go ahead and say he's definitely wrong about Kellen Mond but apart from that yeah it's not insane or anything.
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Mar 24, 2022 16:47
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The Byron Jones world record broad jump may have been beaten by Brisker. https://twitter.com/mike_e_kaye/status/1507021099594399750
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Mar 24, 2022 16:51
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Several tweets are also claiming the same for Ebiketie, which I don't quite understand. Can't believe the measurements aren't a little broken edit - someone said it may be a conversion error, a la "124 inches" and not 12'4", so more like 10' broad. I'd believe that more. edit 2- yeah homeboy pulled that tweet down real quick Omnikin fucked around with this message at 17:06 on Mar 24, 2022 |
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Mar 24, 2022 17:01
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Who's the harbor freight brand QB in this draft. Is it Carson Strong
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Mar 24, 2022 18:29
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Diva Cupcake posted:The Byron Jones world record broad jump may have been beaten by Brisker. Obviously, there’s a conversion error here, but my incredibly mean immediate thought was “won’t matter because they’ll just keep throwing over his rear end to mediocre tight ends anyways” Picking corral feels like an attempt to hedge on the fact that this could be the year where the best QB is essentially Kirk Cousins who he resembles at times. I don’t think it’s insane to call him QB1 if you have a short/west coast derived system and think he can learn it, but his upside is pretty meh. Willis could hit or could turn into every raw freak of the pre Mahomes days. Ridder could be good, or I could point to the fact that he’s eerily similar to Josh Rosen in putting up some nfl throws from structure but making some of the more inexplicable decisions that might become Darnold/Rosen caliber turnovers when he’s not doing things like trying to throw deep or flag routes. Pickett could be good but has essentially similar traits to Corral with less years of doing it. It’s a deeply stupid class that’s going to make fools of us all because the personalities on display are all over the place too.
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Mar 24, 2022 18:33
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Yeah, he has a good hit rate but unless he's saying what kind of pros they are it doesn't matter much. Who cares if you order Lock / Finley / Haskins / Stidham / Jones right if none of them should be drafted as a potential franchise QB?
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Mar 24, 2022 18:35
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In case anyone's curious, after Corral at QB1 it goes: https://twitter.com/CSimmsQB/status/1506085092413878275 Which I don't TOTALLY disagree with, but I do agree with whoever said it's mostly a hedge. Because I don't think those top two guys will be all that good and the only guy who has a real chance to change a franchise is Willis. But like, if the Saints draft Corral or Pickett could they have success on a good team? Sure.
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Mar 24, 2022 18:36
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Chris Simms has some insane top QBs in the nfl list. I love whenever he’d go on Pat Mcafee and read some of his wilder ones just to hear everyone go wild
Amy Pole Her fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Mar 24, 2022 |
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Mar 24, 2022 18:50
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