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"Lovers Walk." - I was willing to to make exceptions for tired romantic cliches when it came to Buffy and Angel. I do not at all like Xander and Willow randomly making out and then this leading to the utterly predictable Oz and Cordelia walking in on it happening. Also I'm keeping an eye on everything to do with Faith. As inspiring as it is that Buffy got it together and aced her SATs, I can only focus on how Giles and Joyce are all "go on Buffy, have a successful life! After all, we have Faith to stay here and be the Slayer." I don't think they mean anything bad by it at all but she's one of those kids everyone just kind of gave up on without even realizing they gave up on them. I didn't remember "The Wish" at all. Oddly, most of my knowledge or memories of it come from discussions online, ggenerally about how beloved Vamp Willow is. It's a pretty depressing episode considering what's talkd about most in my experience is the sexy lady. Speaking of which, Anya is a character I know of obviously but I don't remember much about her at all, especially pre-S5. This was her intro and it was...compelling enough , as these dark AUs tend to be. Of course it's always gonna strike a chord to see another world where our heroes are dead. But apart from Giles leading a resistance and Angel's destiny being to suffer horribly everywhere and in every timeline, it was kinda eh for me. Also on the Buffy subreddit I've seen multiple things now about how people prefer either the "high school seasons" or "college seasons." I've never once thought of it this way and it's so strange to me. What matters is the drama, the acting, the action, the villains.... The background setting is kinda irrelevant for me apart from some nostalgia at scenes of them in the library. Did Buffy even keep going to college in S5? I love that season but I couldn't tell you if she did. It's so irrelevant, especially compared to S4. I'm not sure if it's impressive or depressing that the shipping wars are still alive and well in the Buffy fandom. I grew up with several series that had intense fandom fighting but we're all old now and nobody cares about Inuyasha/Kagome vs Inuyasha/Kikyo anymore. Not so with Buffy, not at all. "Bangel" vs "Spuffy" ahippers are still in the trenches to this day. And sign me up for the former because "Amends" was a beautiful episode. I feel no shame in admitting I'm all in or the tortured vampire thing. Interview with the Vampire is a classic. Seriously though, it's an innately powerful and interesting story to have somebody whose existence is so different from humans, who might even be "evil by nature," but who nevertheless strives to do good and never give up. Buffy in Anne and Angel in Amends both resist overpowering despair. Good acting and good writing helps a lot but everything about this episode, as sappy as it was, really hit home with me. I got a Buffy audiobook with my monthly Audible credit. It has essays on the series and its themes and stuff. Hopefully it's good, I'll post anything I find insightful.
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Mar 20, 2022 15:44
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NikkolasKing posted:Well I'm a 33-year-old white man and I think it all depends on how it's done. If there's not a single strong and well-written women, if the only thing that defines all of them is sex appeal, that's more of a problem for me than objectification itself. Women can be sexy and have sex, that's perfectly fine. They can even be Sex Vampires as the White Council Vamps are from what little I know. There just has to be more going on. I think they're pretty well-written - at least as much as Butcher writes any non-viewpoint character well. Note that in some short stories he had some women as viewpoint characters. NikkolasKing posted:"Lovers Walk." - I was willing to to make exceptions for tired romantic cliches when it came to Buffy and Angel. I do not at all like Xander and Willow randomly making out and then this leading to the utterly predictable Oz and Cordelia walking in on it happening. I guess I'm kind of an rear end in a top hat. The bit with Buffy, Xander, Willow and Cordelia looking broken and sad and then Spike speeding off singing to the Sex Pistol version of "My Way" will just never not be hilarious to me. Everyone fucked around with this message at 16:17 on Mar 20, 2022 |
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Mar 20, 2022 16:13
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Everyone posted:I think they're pretty well-written - at least as much as Butcher writes any non-viewpoint character well. Note that in some short stories he had some women as viewpoint characters. Nah, Spike is great for comedy. I never could buy him as a serious villain but he is always funny, I still vividly remember when he returns in S4 and is like "I'm back and I'm badass and Slayer better watch out and-" And he proceeds to be taken out by the fuckin' Initiative, the most incompetent organization outside the Watchers' Council. Thinking on this and LW, I feel like his returns are all meant to parody his original badass intro in S2. As if to say that Spike is gone, please enjoy this much more entertaining one.
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Mar 20, 2022 16:35
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NikkolasKing posted:Nah, Spike is great for comedy. I never could buy him as a serious villain but he is always funny, I still vividly remember when he returns in S4 and is like "I'm back and I'm badass and Slayer better watch out and-" And he proceeds to be taken out by the fuckin' Initiative, the most incompetent organization outside the Watchers' Council. Still, the Initiative capture leads to Spike becoming "part of the gang" and especially this little truth bomb: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRQFli6zMh4
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Mar 20, 2022 17:21
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Personally every character on the show just needn't be with Buffy, but you can't really "ship" a theoretical character with no development and honestly it's hard to accept newcomers with the protagonist sometimes. I didn't like Riley, but if I did like Riley, I still would've been a little bit like "who tf are you back off bozo" once he starts sniffing around Buffy. Was always hoping for a mystical-tier individual that wasn't a drat vampire, maybe a nice reformed demon like Anya. They did Anya dirty anyway, the friggin made-up baby gets to live but not the reformed demon?! bs
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Mar 20, 2022 17:29
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If we're just posting our favorite funny Spike scenes this one takes it for me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1b8hTeQj3GY Tara is definitely very stoned
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Mar 20, 2022 17:40
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Well, count me as one of the only Spuffy shippers on this thread then. But then again, it's a trend for me. I always prefer the devil-may-care, humor-filled option (In True Blood, Erik Northman, and in Vampire Diaries, Damon Salvatore) to the broody, misery-guts option. And, it was mentioned earlier, but Angel falls for buffy when she was 14/15 in LA with Merrick. That's loving creepy. At least Spike/Buffy happened during college-age Buffy.
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Mar 20, 2022 21:17
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Angel always looks a little bit like he's holding in a fart.
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Mar 20, 2022 22:48
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Pan Dulce posted:Well, count me as one of the only Spuffy shippers on this thread then. But then again, it's a trend for me. I always prefer the devil-may-care, humor-filled option (In True Blood, Erik Northman, and in Vampire Diaries, Damon Salvatore) to the broody, misery-guts option. And, it was mentioned earlier, but Angel falls for buffy when she was 14/15 in LA with Merrick. That's loving creepy. At least Spike/Buffy happened during college-age Buffy. I thought Buffy/Spike was pretty toxic and bad for them both, but that first time they got together was really hot, having sex and destroying a house at the same time. Just, yeah, that's right. That's how super-people would gently caress. Khanstant posted:Angel always looks a little bit like he's holding in a fart. He is. That fart is Angelus.
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Mar 21, 2022 02:05
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Pan Dulce posted:Well, count me as one of the only Spuffy shippers on this thread then. But then again, it's a trend for me. I always prefer the devil-may-care, humor-filled option (In True Blood, Erik Northman, and in Vampire Diaries, Damon Salvatore) to the broody, misery-guts option. And, it was mentioned earlier, but Angel falls for buffy when she was 14/15 in LA with Merrick. That's loving creepy. At least Spike/Buffy happened during college-age Buffy. It's the opposite of the Buffy subreddit, then. That place is very hardcore pro-Spike and it's honestly a bit tiring. I've seen the opinion "Angel was only good in his own show" for years but I didn't expect that on a Buffy forum. If a person personally dislikes the character whatever but it's always framed in objective "nobody liked him and he wasn't even a real character." He got his own spinoff because nobody liked him...? To say nothing of the popular sentiment that poor, generic Riley is the worst character ever, right down there with Kennedy or something. Any rival to Spike is pure garbage.
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Mar 21, 2022 03:31
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NikkolasKing posted:It's the opposite of the Buffy subreddit, then. That place is very hardcore pro-Spike and it's honestly a bit tiring. I've seen the opinion "Angel was only good in his own show" for years but I didn't expect that on a Buffy forum. If a person personally dislikes the character whatever but it's always framed in objective "nobody liked him and he wasn't even a real character." He got his own spinoff because nobody liked him...? Riley was just boring. And a cheater. But he's not the worst character... that honor'd probably go to Kennedy for me. I will say I never fell in love with Angel 'til Season 5 of Angel, after he'd basically become a different character than the one he portrayed on Buffy. Also, I might be one of the only people here that actually liked Cordelia/Angel. I dunno, I think Angel deserves to be happy and the happiest and most open with his personality he was was with Cordy. He was both Angelus and Angel with her and though both don't love her, one does. Although in hindsight, that's also a good argument for Darla/Angel, since Angelus loves her. Pan Dulce fucked around with this message at 04:16 on Mar 21, 2022 |
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Mar 21, 2022 03:58
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Pan Dulce posted:Although in hindsight, that's also a good argument for Darla/Angel, since Angelus loves her. This is an interesting topic to me. I wrote my own little assessment of Angelus and somebody responded with "he still loved Buffy." I've seen this idea before and you have your belief he loved Darla. But I take the Judge's verdict as definitive. Dalton loved reading, Spike loved Dru, Angelus loved nothing. He is the more purely hateful being on the show.
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Mar 21, 2022 04:35
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Some eps I blanked on but others are pretty unforgettable and I know them instantly just by the name. "Helpless" is such an episode. Giles can't very well accuse Buffy of "having no respect for me" after this. Of course I sympathize with his position but he made the right decision in the end and I think that makes all the difference to both us and Buffy. Kralik was an impressive villain given his single appearance. I know he's just "Hollywood crazy" but his condition makes me think of Ford and how he wanted to be a vampire to deal with tumors destroying his brain. Migraines can have multiple causes so far as a layman like me knows but Kralik's general insanity + the migraines makes me think there is something fundamentally wrong with his brain and being changed did nothing to it. That's interesting to me. Prior medical conditions persist into vampirism. What a raw deal. Back to an episode I did not remember "The Zeppo." Did anyone here ever watch Justice League Unlimited? Specifically the episode with Booster Gold where nobody took him seriously and there was this big, epic battle with all the main Justice Leaguers like Superman happening off-screen while BG did his own thing and saved the day in his own way? I have no idea if The Zeppo inspired that or they both are emulating something started elsewhere but it always works. It's charming and funny, especially with Buffy and Angel trying to have one of their typical dramatic moments only for Xander to walk in and they just stare at him until he goes away and they instantly snap back to drama mode. In a very real sense, I think this one episode encapsulates why Buffy was and is still beloved. It's a tone that changed popular media forever. Thinking on it, there is precedent for a superhero cartoon openly emulating Buffy so maybe that JLU episode was based on The Zeppo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1MTgRRqOyU This dance taken from "Bad Girls" the episode I'm on right now I honestly thought Faith and Buffy had more time together in my memory. Upon a rewatch, I feel like, prior to BG, their only kinda close moments were her intro and maybe when Faith came over for Christmas. The three most popular romantic partner options for Buffy are Spike, Angel, and....not Riley but Faith. I've always liked it. But right now it feels like a lot of this intimacy, implied or imagined or whatever, is actually post-Bad Girls. Even discounting any romantic subtext, it would have been nice to have at least one episode centered on Buffy and Faith's friendship prior to this. Oh well, I just obviously know where her character is going so I've been trying to watch it, look for signs and stuff, and there is definitely stuff there, just not much of it has to do with Buffy and her. Also holy poo poo Wesley. I still can't believe this character turned into possibly the best character on Angel. I wonder if they always planned this for him. I can't believe it. EDIT https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ_ml8ygD9c NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 15:49 on Mar 21, 2022 |
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Mar 21, 2022 10:39
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I'm a few episodes deep into season 2 (rewatch) and can I just say I love Drusilla. One of the best villains IMO. One of the few scenes that has always stuck with me from my first watch is Kendra's death scene. It's just so deliciously creepy the way she hypnotizes her before slashing her throat with her goddamn fingernail.
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Mar 21, 2022 10:43
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Yeah, Bruce Timm mentions watching Buffy and Angel on a JLU commentary track so that's entirely possible. There was also an awful episode of Doctor Who (I know the crack you're about to make, please don't) which the showrunner explicitly said was heavily influenced by The Zeppo. Every now and again, I still see internet posts reference the ep when a TV show does a similarly-structured episode--it seems to be a pretty low-key influential episode.
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Mar 21, 2022 11:08
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Man, last time I watched The Zeppo I remember most of the supporting cast coming across as huge dickheads. It's something I noticed a lot with Season 3. Yeah, they're seeding stuff like Willow's narcissism in Dead Man's Party, or just generally weakening the group's bonds to support the season 4 plot, but I remember it having the side effect of a lot of that season being kinda unenjoyable. Argue posted:There was also an awful episode of Doctor Who (I know the crack you're about to make, please don't) which the showrunner explicitly said was heavily influenced by The Zeppo. You mean Love and Monsters? That episode loving rules. But the idea of this kind of ep predates Buffy; Never Again from The X-Files, for instance. Open Source Idiom fucked around with this message at 11:16 on Mar 21, 2022 |
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Mar 21, 2022 11:13
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Open Source Idiom posted:Man, last time I watched The Zeppo I remember most of the supporting cast coming across as huge dickheads. I was trying to think "did X-Files do something like this?" and I came up with nothing. Now you mention it I do kind of remember that episode but it didn't really stick out t o me. I'll take your word for it, though. As for the supporting cast being kinda dicks this season....I dunno. Willow rushed to being jealous of Faith, a fact commented upon by the writer of Bad Girls, but I never really thought of it as narcissism. I take it you think her characterization in S6 isn't so out of left field, then? That was always my biggest beef with the season, it ruined my favorite relationship (Willow/Tara) for no reason. But maybe I missed clues. Even now I'm not the most perceptive watcher and I certainly wasn't back in 2001 or whatever. But The Zeppo is a clearly weird episode so I personally wouldn't take its representations too seriously. Argue posted:Yeah, Bruce Timm mentions watching Buffy and Angel on a JLU commentary track so that's entirely possible. There was also an awful episode of Doctor Who (I know the crack you're about to make, please don't) which the showrunner explicitly said was heavily influenced by The Zeppo. Every now and again, I still see internet posts reference the ep when a TV show does a similarly-structured episode--it seems to be a pretty low-key influential episode. This makes sense and thanks for the info. I always take it for granted Buffy is influential but concrete examples of acknowledged influence helps a lot.
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Mar 21, 2022 12:11
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NikkolasKing posted:I was trying to think "did X-Files do something like this?" and I came up with nothing. Now you mention it I do kind of remember that episode but it didn't really stick out t o me. I'll take your word for it, though. Yeah, there were a few other stories from this period that did similar thing, recognising the perspective of characters who'd been marginalised by the narrative -- there's an issue of Grant Morrison's The Invisibles that flashes back to tell the story of a random guard that was merked several issues prior, for instance. And, though I've never seen it, there's Lower Decks from Star Trek which apparently also focuses on the perspectives of some otherwise "irrelevant" characters. NikkolasKing posted:As for the supporting cast being kinda dicks this season....I dunno. Willow rushed to being jealous of Faith, a fact commented upon by the writer of Bad Girls, but I never really thought of it as narcissism. I take it you think her characterization in S6 isn't so out of left field, then? That was always my biggest beef with the season, it ruined my favorite relationship (Willow/Tara) for no reason. But maybe I missed clues. Even now I'm not the most perceptive watcher and I certainly wasn't back in 2001 or whatever. Yeah, I think Willow's Season 6 behaviour honestly makes a lot of sense, and is fairly typical of kids who excel at an early age while also being bullied for it -- combined with the privilege that her powers grant her, you can see where the character from Bargaining through to Tabula Rasa comes from. The drug thing is, like, whatever, but it also comes out of nowhere midseason so I've always been a little suspect of how much was originally intended. I think it's more interesting to read the character's flaws through the lens of a superiority complex. The first thing that really stuck out to me, though, was Dead Man's Party, where she's so cruelly passive aggressive to Buffy, and has that whole thing where she puts her pain (which sucks) above Buffy's (which, let's be honest, her situation is so much worse there's no real competition here). Understandable behaviour, but hosed up all the same. And then you've got stories like Dopplegangland, which confronts Willow with the kind of person she could end up being if she overcorrected on her self-improvement arc, which she inevitably does. With this reading, you could argue that the "bored now" stuff in Season 6 not so much as a cute callback so much as a pay-off to earlier material. I know there are other examples, but I can't recall any off the top of my head.
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Mar 21, 2022 12:51
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NikkolasKing posted:
Holy poo poo! I got into X-Men because of this cartoon series and always loved this dance scene. It wasn't until way later in my life that I got into BtVS. I never made the connection that this scene was basically Buffy and Faith. Mind. BLOWN. As for what you said previously if that was the case, why would Angelus care that the Immortal slept with Darla? Personally, I think the Judge said he doesn't have humanity because there was nothing left to tie him to humanity, considering Angel had killed off Darla.
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Mar 21, 2022 13:09
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Oasx posted:Also, Restless is the best episode of Buffy.  Even before Sopranos, doing a perfect dream episode.
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Mar 21, 2022 13:25
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Pan Dulce posted:Holy poo poo! I got into X-Men because of this cartoon series and always loved this dance scene. It wasn't until way later in my life that I got into BtVS. I never made the connection that this scene was basically Buffy and Faith. Mind. BLOWN. X-Men Evolution is my favorite comic book cartoon series ever. I won't say it's the best animated series but it is exceptionally good and criminally underrated. I grew up with X-Men TAS and was a fanboy for it like a lot of kids back then but you grow up and you realize the plain fact Evolution was a way better show in every conceivable way. More intelligently and maturely written, better voiced, and definitively better animated. Although I also didn't realize the Buffy influence until way later. As for Darla, that's a good point I hadn't considered. And Angelus did stick with her if I'm rememebering ATS right, she betrayed and abandoned him.
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Mar 21, 2022 14:06
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There was something I noticed from my rewatch that the HD messes up, the campus walk scenes with extras seem very busy. Thee extras were being distracting and seemed too numerous. But by how the main cast were positioned I guessed it might have been not as bad in the original 4:3 framing. I got an old SD copy to compare and that's exactly what the problem was. In the original the extras aren't noticeable, because the frame is mostly taken up by the main cast, the extras are just background moving between the negative space. But in the HD remaster with the frame opened up to 16:9, now the main cast are centered while the extras move about across the borders. There's other problems that become apparent watching the original. The colour was in the original warm tones but they've replaced it with cool tones and cranked the brightness up. The vampires are much worse with their makeup so obvious under the increased lighting. And the casts skin has been smoothed out digitally, every wrinkle and blemish washed away. Marenghi fucked around with this message at 00:54 on Mar 22, 2022 |
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Mar 22, 2022 00:38
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Restless was pretty bad with that. Like when Xander's in the van, at one point you can see the green screen effects crop. Also in near the end of the ep, we see the Cheese Man standing half onscreen waiting for his cue during Buffy's talk with the First Slayer.
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Mar 22, 2022 05:09
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The HD remaster of the show is an abomination from everything I have heard.
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Mar 22, 2022 05:25
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Oasx posted:The HD remaster of the show is an abomination from everything I have heard. Same. I was waiting for BRs forever and then I thought of rewatching Buffy a few months back and was like "yay, blurays at last!" But then everybody told me no they are total garbage avoid at all cost. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZWNGq70Oyo I just had a thought and I'm not saying I'm treading new ground but since I totally forgot about 'Anne" this is new for me. I asked some people what the episode meant to them and while there's a lot going on in it, the theme of Despair is probably at its heart. Despair is the worst sin in Christianity because it is the absolute rejection of forgiveness, salvation, and hope. Buffy, after everything she did and lost, feels she is undeserving of any of those things. But she overcomes and this is the start of Season 3. She forgives herself. This is something Faith cannot do. After killing an innocent man, she throws herself into despair because she is so guilt-ridden she can't imagine anybody would forgive her. This is no doubt due to her previous life experiences, her jaded outlook on how everyone is just using everyone else. Buffy forgave herself but she didn't do it alone. Everybody needs love and support, you need a community to be an individual, and Faith has none of that. Except when she finds the Mayor. Even with him at first he was just a "sugar daddy" for her. She might very well have betrayed him and run off again if he hadn't provided her with the love and structure she so desperately craved. Also I forgot this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5r1CZbeevlo And look at those Likes. Yeah, Riley doesn't have a chance. Although, just my opinion, this is pretty onesided on Faith's part and after S3 any sparkage between them is definitively extinguished on Buffy's side. Here's a cringey video I made compiling the evidence for them a long time ago. I mainly post it for the DVD commentary I included at the start. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaT0ykgJomo
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Mar 22, 2022 05:45
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I think the underlying problem with Riley is that he's a hegemonic figure on a show that was trying to be counter-cultural. Buffy is generally going up against the forces that Riley represents. Usually indirectly, but in S4 it's extremely direct and they never do anything to separate Riley from those except the fact that he is in love with Buffy. That's the only reason he rebels at all, his outlook stays the same. Any time Buffy moves towards Riley, she's moving away from the core of the show. It feels wrong and therefore forced when they try to portray it as a positive thing. Riley is a church going soldier who has a persistent issue with wishing Buffy was weaker than him. He's also prone to jealousy and lashes out about it. Not a monstrous guy or anything, and he knows these things about him aren't working in this context, but everything good you can say about Riley is mitigating. 'yeah he sucks but he tries not to i suppose.' He's just coming from a totally different place than the rest of the show. Buffy's other relationships are with people outside of the mainstream who have some kind of major factor keeping them becoming part of it. Buffy's always straddling that line too, and it creates an interesting dynamic because the choices aren't obvious. Angel in S1-3, Faith in S3 (who, thinking about your post, is actually more of her main relationship this season that Angel, even if it is all subtext), and then after Riley, Spike. They all orbit normality from a much farther distance than Buffy does. I don't actually mind Riley in S5 that much because they mostly wrote him off in a way that made sense, but he's a total mismatch from the start. Xander's speech in Riley's defense before he leaves is something Xander would say, but it's completely unconvincing and I think Buffy would've just let him go. I wonder why they decided on a character like him. roomtone fucked around with this message at 07:41 on Mar 22, 2022 |
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Mar 22, 2022 07:13
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roomtone posted:I think the underlying problem with Riley is that he's a hegemonic figure on a show that was trying to be counter-cultural. Buffy is generally going up against the forces that Riley represents. Usually indirectly, but in S4 it's extremely direct and they never do anything to separate Riley from those except the fact that he is in love with Buffy. That's the only reason he rebels at all, his outlook stays the same. Any time Buffy moves towards Riley, she's moving away from the core of the show. It feels wrong and therefore forced when they try to portray it as a positive thing. I think the reason Riley doesn't work for you and a lot of the audience is precisely why they picked him in the first place. He is super normal, at least compared to most of Buffy's romantic relationships. Angel and Buffy didn't work on a practical level because of the exotic circumstances around his very existence. So what do? Date a nice Iowan farmboy. [timg]https://i.imgur.com/FtjWZ8F.jpg[/url][/timg] (Also can I just say seeing him and Buffy together is always funny because he is not merely taller than her like all her other boyfriends, he's way broader. She looks like a twig next to a tree trunk.) So yeah, he's a guy with normal guy problems. His issues with Buffy are stuff like "I'm insecure because my girlfriend is the one who will be saving me isntead of the other way around" and not "I have a soul which I might lose if I have sex" or "I have no soul and a chip in my head." Buffy is a show built on metaphors of real issues but largely it makes those real issues supernatural or mystical. Riley is a bit too mundane in his issues. That's my theory anyway. He was a sadly unsuccessful experiment at giving Buffy a more normal relationship. Nobody wanted that. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 07:47 on Mar 22, 2022 |
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Mar 22, 2022 07:45
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TBH I suspect a lot of Riley's arc was derailed by the loss of Lindsay Crouse.
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Mar 22, 2022 07:53
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Open Source Idiom posted:TBH I suspect a lot of Riley's arc was derailed by the loss of Lindsay Crouse. Was she supposed to be around longer? Did Buffy S4 undergo serious retcons, too?
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Mar 22, 2022 07:58
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NikkolasKing posted:Was she supposed to be around longer? Did Buffy S4 undergo serious retcons, too? She was meant to be the season's main villain, but Crouse exited her contract mid-season forcing significant rewrites. I read somewhere -- and this may be apocryphal -- that Ben's eventual death at Giles' hands was adapted from their original plans for Walsh. Certainly Walsh and Giles were meant to come into more significant conflict as the season drew on, drawing everyone else into the drama.
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Mar 22, 2022 08:02
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I still like Riley better than Angel when it comes to Buffy relationships
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Mar 22, 2022 09:00
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I felt they did a poor job of integrating him into the cast. Few fun interactions with people aside from Buffy. And when they gave him drama it was weird poo poo like getting addicted to crack whore vampires sucking him.
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Mar 22, 2022 09:45
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sad question posted:I felt they did a poor job of integrating him into the cast. Few fun interactions with people aside from Buffy. And they also did stuff like locking Riley and Buffy in the "ghost gently caress dimension." OTOH that was a little cool to see the rest of the Scooby Gang trying to find a way to save them.
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Mar 22, 2022 19:41
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Everyone posted:And they also did stuff like locking Riley and Buffy in the "ghost gently caress dimension." OTOH that was a little cool to see the rest of the Scooby Gang trying to find a way to save them. Do you mean the episode n Season 4 where they're loving a lot and it's causing all hell to break loose? I think Xander seemingly "barges in" at the end and Buffy is like "god why don't you KNOCK?!" That is one of the more....infamous episodes of the series. I listened to a Buffy podcast a long time ago which said that and another infamous S4 episode were both directed or maybe written by the same person and, well, that was the end of them. Open Source Idiom posted:She was meant to be the season's main villain, but Crouse exited her contract mid-season forcing significant rewrites. Neither show had any luck with their fourth season it seems. Although I was talking to somebody elsewhere and they said that evil Cordelia was always a retcon, it's just Jasmine which was a later change. They wrote her character into a hole in S3 with the whole "you must ascend to a Power thing" with no plan where to go from there. So S4 was always a directionless mess. I'm trying to spoilertag Angel things because somebody at the start of the thread hadn't seen AtS. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 19:57 on Mar 22, 2022 |
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Mar 22, 2022 19:52
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i don't think buffy s4 is a bad season. i like it just as much as any of the others on balance, just for a different reason. it's funny and nice to hang around in. s2 and 3 are actually just as inconsistent as 4 is, it's just that the main villains are better. s4's main villains are rubbish but it has the best hit ratio for the standalone episodes, and they're mostly comedy focused in s4. the main cast character work in s4 is as good as ever and willow and xander are probably at peak likeability along with a lot of giles and spike comedy. fear itself, something blue, superstar, a new man, hush, restless, wild at heart, new moon rising, faith 2 parter. all top tier buffy episodes for me. that's half the season right there and the rest of it isn't even bad. roomtone fucked around with this message at 20:11 on Mar 22, 2022 |
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Mar 22, 2022 20:05
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We do not disrespect Beer Bad in this house.
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Mar 22, 2022 20:08
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NikkolasKing posted:Do you mean the episode n Season 4 where they're loving a lot and it's causing all hell to break loose? I think Xander seemingly "barges in" at the end and Buffy is like "god why don't you KNOCK?!" Yep, that's the one. NikkolasKing posted:Although I was talking to somebody elsewhere and they said that evil Cordelia was always a retcon, it's just Jasmine which was a later change. They wrote her character into a hole in S3 with the whole "you must ascend to a Power thing" with no plan where to go from there. So S4 was always a directionless mess. I think one reason I really liked the Angel/Cordelia romance was that Charisma Carpenter was able to start acting like the 30+ year old woman that she was instead of trying to pretend that she was high school/college age. It made it way less "icky." Vampire stuff aside, David Boreanaz is only a little over a year older than she is so they were more of an age-appropriate match.
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Mar 22, 2022 20:09
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sad question posted:I felt they did a poor job of integrating him into the cast. Few fun interactions with people aside from Buffy. Yeah, Spike and Angel always had decent chemistry with the rest of the Scooby gang. Riley had... nothing. I just remember them all being pretty indifferent to him.
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Mar 22, 2022 23:49
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I don't know if Riley would have been better as an actual normal college guy over normal college guy who's secretly special forces.
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Mar 22, 2022 23:53
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Marenghi posted:I don't know if Riley would have been better as an actual normal college guy over normal college guy who's secretly special forces. Probably. "Slayer tries to date a normal guy" could have been an interesting contrast to "Slayer dates a vampire". But with Riley already being a bad-rear end demon-hunter it ended up being pretty close to "Slayer dates a male, slightly less effective Slayer" which is just dull.
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Mar 23, 2022 00:03
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