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Arist posted:There's a deleted scene from The Batman making the rounds and apparently we almost got more of Barry Keoghan's Joker, which, thank god they didn't put that in the actual movie. I didn't even watch the scene because even if it's good I just do not want that. I think the scene is good and so was the decision to cut it.
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Mar 25, 2022 04:39
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theironjef posted:I'm only a little ways into it but I absolutely loved the sloppy drunk take they did with Mantis. Asymmetrical smeared lipstick and everything. There's a level around mid game where Mantis is with you and her dialog is just adorable and hilarious.
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Mar 25, 2022 05:19
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Doctor Spaceman posted:I think the scene is good and so was the decision to cut it. This is where I'm at. I really don't like this interpretation of the Joker though and I kinda hope Reeves doesn't use him in the future. He's my favorite character (I know, I know) but the live action versions just keep moving further and further away from what I like about the him with every installment.
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Mar 25, 2022 14:37
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Call me crazy but I like a Joker who is more of a clown and not just a smiling psycho.
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Mar 25, 2022 15:19
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Lobok posted:Call me crazy but I like a Joker who is more of a clown and not just a smiling psycho. 
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Mar 25, 2022 15:37
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Lobok posted:Call me crazy but I like a Joker who is more of a clown and not just a smiling psycho. Hear me out: Mark Hammill as Joker
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Mar 25, 2022 15:51
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Lobok posted:Call me crazy but I like a Joker who is more of a clown and not just a smiling psycho. At this point, culturally speaking, the only way you can depict a clown and not have him come across as a smiling psycho is to anchor him in some other sort of characterization, i.e. Krusty the Clown's dirtbag celebrity Given the fact that Joker wants to kill people (either because he just wants to or to mess with Batman) it's doubly as hard to not fall into psycho clown cliches which is why they should just use him less, imo
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Mar 25, 2022 16:51
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I’ve always liked the idea of a Joker who just embodies pure (if malicious) joy. Like, I imagine someone who spent their whole life miserable, living in a grey, lifeless fog of undiagnosed mental illness and hopeless resignation until one day they hear about Batman and realize that their life doesn’t have to be mindless drudgery! They can live as outrageous a life as they want! Batman has made it possible! Maybe he kills people. Maybe he doesn’t. That’s beside the point, which is just living as large and outrageous a life as you can.
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Mar 25, 2022 17:30
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The most original and subversive take of the character at this point would be to make The Joke actually funny.
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Mar 25, 2022 17:46
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Pretty much. Making him scarier and edgier has more or less hit a point of diminishing returns, if they want an original take on the Joker they need to go with a golden age/Caesar Romero style one.
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Mar 25, 2022 17:55
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You can make him scary and funny. I think Hammil rides that line, as does Ledger I reckon, people forget he is genuinely funny in TDK. To me the recent interpretations haven't really captured the character, Leto was just annoying, and Phoenix, though good, didn't feel like the Joker. I kind of feel bad for Keoghan though, I think he seems good from the little we saw but everyone is like "gently caress this", and it's not because of him, it's just that the character is over exposed. It's kind of bad luck. Karloff fucked around with this message at 18:06 on Mar 25, 2022 |
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Mar 25, 2022 18:01
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I saw that part of what they were going for with this was this Joker having some manner of condition that forces him to smile, which gets into some icky stuff around how grotesquely they're framing the scene and how otherizing the depiction is in general. The issue with that, as well as the 2019 Joker movie's attempt to Basically, writers may think when they tell the story of "society mistreated this mentally ill/deformed man and he went on a rampage!" that the emphasis is on the society part, but it's really on the way they've made the character "unusual." Because everyone watching already knows the outcome and is waiting to get to the fireworks factory, everything has to exist to service or even "justify" the core violence of the character. It's like, "We could get into the social stigmatization of people with deformities, but we really just wanted an excuse to make the clown who blows people up with chattering teeth really grotesque, and we'll pay lip service to that first part so we don't seem too insensitive." Yeah, the more I think about this, the more I feel he should really just be a goddamn clown.
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Mar 25, 2022 18:16
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imo he works fine as just a dude in clown makeup and always has and any attempt to deviate from that just feels like differentiation for the sake of differentiation which you don't need to do because a key component of Joker as a character is that he's incredibly malleable in his motivations and personality, probably even more so than Batman
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Mar 25, 2022 18:50
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Parkingtigers posted:The most original and subversive take of the character at this point would be to make The Joker actually funny. Probably my favourite moment from any villain in any Batman film (Burton onward) is Nicholson Joker's "you wouldn't hit a guy with glasses, wouldja?" gag.
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Mar 25, 2022 18:55
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Ledger's Joker was legit funny in several scenes
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Mar 25, 2022 19:00
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Blockhouse posted:Ledger's Joker was legit funny in several scenes Indeed, he was! I always loved the scene where he slides down his mountain of money, I dunno there was something funny silly about that.
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Mar 25, 2022 20:04
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The shrug when the hospital bombs don't go off is the best acting in the movie
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Mar 25, 2022 20:08
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Disfigurement for villains is a thing that needs to stop in general
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Mar 25, 2022 20:11
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Blockhouse posted:Ledger's Joker was legit funny in several scenes "You think you can steal from us and just walk away?" "yeah" is the best delivery of all those Nolan movies
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Mar 25, 2022 21:21
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Lobok posted:Probably my favourite moment from any villain in any Batman film (Burton onward) is Nicholson Joker's "you wouldn't hit a guy with glasses, wouldja?" gag. I was thinking about how that is the most Joker thing they've put in a movie with him. Based on Reeves Riddler and kind of Joker people want he'd be a combo of John Wayne Gacey and Jeffrey Dhalmer.
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Mar 25, 2022 22:28
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site posted:The shrug when the hospital bombs don't go off is the best acting in the movie  Oh, that's one of his best scenes!
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Mar 25, 2022 22:36
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I do feel Heath Ledger had some genuinely brilliant and funny moments. The “magic trick” and the “dog with his head out the car window” stuff. I like Keogh, but Ledger was something special and the last truly unique Joker for me.
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Mar 25, 2022 23:02
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I can't remember if I mentioned it in this thread, but I thought it was clever in The Batman that Riddler's sense of betrayal and outrage at Batman not actually being in secret psycho Jodie Foster mind-beam communication with him, and his disappointed observation that "oh, you didn't figure out the endgame, you're not as smart as I thought you were," both set up his future pathological and egomaniacal compulsion to enact ridiculously contrived scenarios explicitly to rub Batman's face in how intellectually inferior he is to Edward. Whatever it is he attempts in the future, he can't help but include puzzles to outsmart Batman with, because of his spurned parasocial obsession. Edit: the mysteries and riddles involving Riddler and his plot were generally pretty smart and well written imo so I really hope, if they choose to include Joker in later films, they similarly take pains to make him actually funny. Also, Reeves and Pattinson have mentioned wanting to use Mr. Freeze in later entries, and it makes me wonder how they would manage that without going strictly sci-fi. This take on Gotham feels like a blend of Burton's high genre weirdness and Nolan's grounded grittiness, so there are a lot of directions they could ultimately go. SlimGoodbody fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Mar 25, 2022 |
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Mar 25, 2022 23:16
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On that note, I really enjoyed some of the actual solutions to the riddles for being just very earnestly hilarious/stupid/hilariously stupid. Like, the "thumb" drive and "You Are El" had me near-cackling in the theater, to the point I don't understand people who say the movie is overly self-serious. It very much knows it's ridiculous, it just plays that stuff totally straight and it's all the better for it.
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Mar 25, 2022 23:28
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SlimGoodbody posted:Edit: the mysteries and riddles involving Riddler and his plot were generally pretty smart and well written imo so I really hope, if they choose to include Joker in later films, they similarly take pains to make him actually funny. Also, Reeves and Pattinson have mentioned wanting to use Mr. Freeze in later entries, and it makes me wonder how they would manage that without going strictly sci-fi. This take on Gotham feels like a blend of Burton's high genre weirdness and Nolan's grounded grittiness, so there are a lot of directions they could ultimately go. Also it's been said many times across the internet, but I'm hoping for Court of Owls at some point. It further explores the idea of Gotham's corruption being at its very core with the Waynes inextricably tied to it, and it rides that same line of grounded (rich people working together to removing threats to their power) and COMICS! (immortal assassin who dresses like an owl). Also it's a villain that's never been in a Batman movie before, and I really hope we can get some of that whoever they go with.
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Mar 25, 2022 23:41
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I feel like the films have been kind of reluctant to use the newer villains Like we got a Hush name drop in the new movie but it's completely unrelated to anything
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Mar 25, 2022 23:57
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Arist posted:On that note, I really enjoyed some of the actual solutions to the riddles for being just very earnestly hilarious/stupid/hilariously stupid. Like, the "thumb" drive and "You Are El" had me near-cackling in the theater, to the point I don't understand people who say the movie is overly self-serious. It very much knows it's ridiculous, it just plays that stuff totally straight and it's all the better for it. "You are el" had extreme 60's Batman energy, and I was all there for it. The interesting thing to me about people calling it "serious" is that the movie wasn't all that "serious" in terms of plot or contents, but it did have a lot of things in it that people associate with movies that are considered "serious". Like, if I had to compare it with one other movie, it'd be the 2006 Miami Vice by Michael Mann, which had a comparable running length filled with even less plot, but even more long, drawn out sequences that serve no other purpose than to let the audience sit in the moment and vibe with the characters and the aesthetics. The Batman was a very ambience-based movie, and it really lives or dies on whether you are attuned to the mood it's putting out there.
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Mar 26, 2022 00:01
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In terms of plot beats, The Batman is probably lighter than the Nolan movies movie. It's grim darkness is rooted purely in mood and style, which I would argue are the best kind of grim darkness. Bruce's characterization, too, but that's done for a clear point. Although it's probably splitting hairs whether you think an ancient society of shadow assassins trying to destroy a city is any more dark than a bunch of frustrated internet jerks
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Mar 26, 2022 00:16
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FlamingLiberal posted:I feel like the films have been kind of reluctant to use the newer villains I think this is some fear of upsetting the very vocal online fans who just want to see Batman punch The Joker over and over. Seriously, WB seems to be very conservative with the the DC properties, really reluctant to dip into anything new for the films. Not that DC has created any really interesting villains in the last decade or so. This is probably due to Johns being stuck in his childhood, only want to see stuff he grew up with rather than letting anyone invent anything new. I'll be pretty happy whenever we get Green Lantern the villains are Red Lanterns, or Yellow Lanterns, and not just Sinestro with a yellow ring and his weird jester collar. Which was John's invention, so I probably just undermined my own theory.
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Mar 26, 2022 00:33
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FlamingLiberal posted:I feel like the films have been kind of reluctant to use the newer villains I would say a big problem is that a lot of the newer villains kind of lack punch. Like I genuinely think probably the newest Batman villain with real presence is Professor Pyg and I'm not sure he can carry a movie (or at very least might not be rating-friendly enough.)
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Mar 26, 2022 03:07
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ImpAtom posted:I would say a big problem is that a lot of the newer villains kind of lack punch. Like I genuinely think probably the newest Batman villain with real presence is Professor Pyg and I'm not sure he can carry a movie (or at very least might not be rating-friendly enough.) Court of Owls is probably the best overall choice for 'new' villains
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Mar 26, 2022 03:14
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I’d love to see Dr.Hurt, but you need a pretty established Batman for that
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Mar 26, 2022 03:16
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Their constant skittishness regarding Robin means we're always at least two or three movies off from Red Hood, who would be great. I'd also be fine with just letting some filmmaker create gravitas and value out of a lesser villain. We used to be a society that could do that, remember when BTAS made Mr. Freeze and Clayface interesting? Someone take a crack at it, give us Batman vs. The Flamingo, or Dollmaker, whatever.
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Mar 26, 2022 04:51
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Is Leto's Joker the worst Batman movie villain? Some people would say anything from Batman '89 to Batman and Robin but the villains in those movies really fit the style of those movies so I don't think they're bad. Bane in TDKR didn't really do much for me beyond being a big guy with an artificial voice.
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Mar 26, 2022 05:43
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Admiral Joeslop posted:Is Leto's Joker the worst Batman movie villain? Some people would say anything from Batman '89 to Batman and Robin but the villains in those movies really fit the style of those movies so I don't think they're bad. Bane in TDKR didn't really do much for me beyond being a big guy with an artificial voice. Leto's joker is fine. Get rid of his tattoos and he would have been better.
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Mar 26, 2022 05:57
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Admiral Joeslop posted:Is Leto's Joker the worst Batman movie villain? I think it might be the worst Joker out of the movies I've seen, but I don't know if it's the worst villain. You have a whole cast of characters vying for that role in Suicide Squad. If you wanna talk straight-up villains traditionally associated with Batman and/or villains in Batman movies, I really don't even remember Bane serving any purpose in Batman & Robin. Except for that one very good scene where he's wearing a hat.
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Mar 26, 2022 05:57
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Jamesman posted:I think it might be the worst Joker out of the movies I've seen, but I don't know if it's the worst villain. You have a whole cast of characters vying for that role in Suicide Squad. Better than the one where he goes "BOMB. BOMB. BOMB."? We used to say that one while slinging proximity mines in Goldeneye
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Mar 26, 2022 06:01
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Rev. Bleech_ posted:Better than the one where he goes "BOMB. BOMB. BOMB."? We used to say that one while slinging proximity mines in Goldeneye It's a really great hat. Also holy poo poo I just learned Coolio's character in Batman & Robin was meant to be Jonathan Crane so now I'm picking that as my answer AND really wishing we had gotten the sequel to that movie where Coolio would be Scarecrow.
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Mar 26, 2022 06:05
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Scarecroolio
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Mar 26, 2022 07:43
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Some interesting (and confusing) spoilers from the director of Morbius, as part of an interview with CinemaBlend. I'm assuming this is all real. It's my understanding that we don't generally like to post spoilers for movies that aren't even out yet, so all I'll say is you can find this info out on CinemaBlend's Twitter, and 
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Mar 26, 2022 08:41
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