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Alan Smithee posted:wild. Would the US have interest in plane wreckage? Do they even have the latest working SU aircraft in their posession? I'm sure there's all kinds of interesting things you can learn about the state of Russia's metallurgy from doing tests on wreckage, yeah.
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Mar 26, 2022 12:23
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Baconroll posted:Ignoring the sanctions, won't this have killed any future demand for Russian arms from other countries ? Almost all of Russia's problems stem from a lack of preventative maintenance. PGMs need TLC, too. While this is a massive blemish, it's not fatal. Besides, Russia has usually positioned itself as a budget arms provider. There will still be a market for cheap goods compared to what the West offers.
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Mar 26, 2022 13:16
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Their poo poo looks good in parades and works fine repressing uprisings.
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Mar 26, 2022 13:27
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:Hahahaha fuuuuuuuck DNV and Lloyd’s have also pulled all support from Russia, and now the Marshall Island registry (a U.S. based corporation) is reviewing whether or not they can still provide registration to Russian owned vessels. It’s not a maritime blockade, buuuuuuut…
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Mar 26, 2022 13:29
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FrozenVent posted:Their poo poo looks good in parades and works fine repressing uprisings.
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Mar 26, 2022 13:38
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FrozenVent posted:DNV and Lloyd’s have also pulled all support from Russia, and now the Marshall Island registry (a U.S. based corporation) is reviewing whether or not they can still provide registration to Russian owned vessels. Bermuda did a similar thing with Russian owned aircraft. Most Russian planes are registered in Bermuda, I think for tax reasons. The government there said they won’t certify planes as safe to fly which effectively grounds them, that’s why the Russian government passed the law allowing them to seize the planes and reregister them in Russia.
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Mar 26, 2022 13:40
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A.o.D. posted:Almost all of Russia's problems stem from a lack of preventative maintenance. PGMs need TLC, too. While this is a massive blemish, it's not fatal. Besides, Russia has usually positioned itself as a budget arms provider. There will still be a market for cheap goods compared to what the West offers. Yeah, but that's a market segment Chinese arms manufacturers are probably more than happy to take over. I'm pretty sure various operators of Russian armour, like say, Venezuela, are currently having bad dreams about an insurgency armed with an endless supply of Javelins, Stingers and drones. 
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Mar 26, 2022 13:45
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Jasper Tin Neck posted:Yeah, but that's a market segment Chinese arms manufacturers are probably more than happy to take over. I think going forward we are going to see many changes regarding infantry weapons, drones and armoured vehicle design and usage. They won't be getting personal energy shields from the Dune universe (unfortunately) but what is learnt in Ukraine will have ramifications.   edit; extra word removed Just Another Lurker fucked around with this message at 15:08 on Mar 26, 2022 |
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Mar 26, 2022 14:28
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Jasper Tin Neck posted:Yeah, but that's a market segment Chinese arms manufacturers are probably more than happy to take over. If stingers are a threat to your tank, I promise you are beyond caring. I'm not sure there exists a tank that is not vulnerable to top-attack munitions - if Russia were rolling around in LeClercs, they'd be having the same vulnerability issues. Drones are magic. See your own fall of shot and adjust in real time? Go nuts, sub-$300 from AliExpress, discounted when you buy by the container. Think that that road march would be better off in in powdered form? There's a model for that, too (that one's not on AliExpress. Yet). Do we have any evidence that Chinese equipment is any better than Russian? I think they were importing Russian jet engine cores for their indigenous fighters. Just Another Lurker posted:I think we going forward we are going to see many changes regarding infantry weapons, drones and armoured vehicle design and usage. "Don't conduct unprovoked wars of aggression against countries that enjoy Western military support" should be the main takeaway. Then there are the other lessons that won't be learned "Don't operate tanks in ground too soft for them, don't operate them unsupported by infantry, and don't set off on a 200km drive with 100km of fuel". IPCRESS fucked around with this message at 15:00 on Mar 26, 2022 |
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Mar 26, 2022 14:43
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Baconroll posted:Ignoring the sanctions, won't this have killed any future demand for Russian arms from other countries ? Soviet and now Russian military equipment has been on the losing side of numerous wars since the 1950's and that hasn't hurt their exportability. If you are a country that doesn't have good relations with the west or the budget to buy top tier western material you will still look to Russia to outfit your military and just hope you don't face a western backed enemy.
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Mar 26, 2022 14:51
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kill me now posted:Soviet and now Russian military equipment has been on the losing side of numerous wars since the 1950's and that hasn't hurt their exportability. The fact that the Russians have been able to move inventory after Desert Storm proves that price beats quality.
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Mar 26, 2022 15:02
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drat, when did Tasmania become independent? Edit: I think there are some more substantial errors in this, the Dutch have Leopard 2s, for example. EasilyConfused fucked around with this message at 15:26 on Mar 26, 2022 |
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Mar 26, 2022 15:21
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Jasper Tin Neck posted:I'm pretty sure various operators of Russian armour, like say, Venezuela, are currently having bad dreams about an insurgency armed with an endless supply of Javelins, Stingers and drones. I dunno, I feel like any country in Central or South America has perpetual bad dreams about the US Government arming up a bunch of right wing murderous assholes just because the US feels like it that particular month.
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Mar 26, 2022 15:23
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I feel like the bigger issue with Russian arms sales isn’t their quality, it’s “how many arms are they still producing for export after sanctions and their knock-on effects crippled their economy while simultaneously losing a ton of their own equipment that needs replacing?” Even if you WANT Russian arms you might not be able to get them for a while.
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Mar 26, 2022 15:44
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I've fallen down a rabbit hole of looking at tank strength of small countries. I don't think anyone is going to beat Lesotho for least useful MBT force: 1 T55.
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Mar 26, 2022 15:45
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EasilyConfused posted:Edit: I think there are some more substantial errors in this, the Dutch have Leopard 2s, for example. All 18 of them which, although manned by NL personnel, are part of a German tank battalion inside a Dutch mech brigade inside a German Panzerdivision? Oh and the tanks are not owned but leased? I can see how that gets put on a map with the gently caress off color for “no tanks, not explaining this.”
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Mar 26, 2022 15:46
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Koesj posted:All 18 of them which, although manned by NL personnel, are part of a German tank battalion inside a Dutch mech brigade inside a German Panzerdivision? Oh and the tanks are not owned but leased? I can see how that gets put on a map with the gently caress off color for “no tanks, not explaining this.” It's missing others too, Ivory Coast has T-55s for example. Who knows what the source is or even when this map was made.
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Mar 26, 2022 16:10
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That's probably someone's video game map.
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Mar 26, 2022 16:19
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EasilyConfused posted:I've fallen down a rabbit hole of looking at tank strength of small countries. I don't think anyone is going to beat Lesotho for least useful MBT force: 1 T55. Even better, no one will own up to knowing where that lonely T-55 came from. Lesotho is entirely surrounded by South Africa and is fairly far inland on top of that. While possessing quite a few airports for such a small place, there is only one train station in the country. Obviously, it came from SA.
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Mar 26, 2022 16:20
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madeintaipei posted:Even better, no one will own up to knowing where that lonely T-55 came from. Now I'm imagining a T-55 with sunglasses and a fake mustache at a border checkpoint.
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Mar 26, 2022 16:25
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Tomn posted:I feel like the bigger issue with Russian arms sales isn’t their quality, it’s “how many arms are they still producing for export after sanctions and their knock-on effects crippled their economy while simultaneously losing a ton of their own equipment that needs replacing?” Well there's always the French, the Germans, or the U.S.!
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Mar 26, 2022 16:29
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At this point I'm willing to entertain the possibility that that T-55 got so lost from Russia it ended up there in the past.
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Mar 26, 2022 16:31
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Bored As gently caress posted:Well there's always the French, the Germans, or the U.S.! I hear the french have some lovely submarines they're looking to sell.
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Mar 26, 2022 16:31
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imagine capturing so much hardware with tractors that this is a problem: https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1507741839750836224
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Mar 26, 2022 16:35
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gently caress that I'm parking an IFV in a good spot, surroundung it with dirt berms and thick logs and camoflagingng it. Me and Dirty Mike and the boys will keep watch for any Russians stupid enough to cross our paths.
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Mar 26, 2022 16:40
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Taerkar posted:At this point I'm willing to entertain the possibility that that T-55 got so lost from Russia it ended up there in the past. It's almost certainly one of the ten seized by SA from a French ship in Durban, 1979 or 80. How it actually got into Lesotho, I can guess. An enterprising S'African officer calls up his Lesothan royal counterpart: "Hey, bru, I've got this tank we found in Durban. Do ya want it? Cheap, as long as you pay in Rand." "gently caress it, why not. The king said he wanted to modernize." Months pass... "Prince so-and-so, did you happen to buy something off the Boere? Something big, brown, and heavy?" "Nooooooo?" "THEN WHAT THE gently caress IS THAT?!" "That, what?" "The 45 tonne chunk of steel sitt... you know what? YOU explain it to our sovereign. I wash my hand of this."
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Mar 26, 2022 16:45
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pmchem posted:imagine capturing so much hardware with tractors that this is a problem: As a related item, I bet the black market trade in ATGMs after this is over is going to be nuts.
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Mar 26, 2022 16:56
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T-55s rule so I don't blame them for owning one.
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Mar 26, 2022 16:56
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Stultus Maximus posted:As a related item, I bet the black market trade in ATGMs after this is over is going to be nuts. I worry that a lot of ATGMs and Stingers are gonna find their way to the wrong hands.
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Mar 26, 2022 16:58
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Bored As gently caress posted:I worry that a lot of ATGMs and Stingers are gonna find their way to the wrong hands. It's only really a problem for anyone invading another country or forcibly putting down a rebellion. The House of Saud is probably making GBS threads their pants about the proliferation of anti vehicle weapons.
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Mar 26, 2022 17:02
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AreWeDrunkYet posted:It's only really a problem for anyone invading another country or forcibly putting down a rebellion. The House of Saud is probably making GBS threads their pants about the proliferation of anti vehicle weapons. Eh, there's plenty of right wing extremists flocking to Ukraine to fight on both sides that would probably love to use them to make a statement to some European government. SITE released an oped in the WaPo about how this is going to be a similar training ground for neo Nazis as the Libyan and Syrian civil wars were for Islamic extremists.
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Mar 26, 2022 17:05
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So how far is Ukraine away from a NEGATIVE equipment loss?
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Mar 26, 2022 17:14
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psydude posted:Eh, there's plenty of right wing extremists flocking to Ukraine to fight on both sides that would probably love to use them to make a statement to some European government. SITE released an oped in the WaPo about how this is going to be a similar training ground for neo Nazis as the Libyan and Syrian civil wars were for Islamic extremists. Are they really any sort of game changer when it comes to terrorism? There are a lot of obstacles to a terror attack other than the weapons involved, and it's not like any interesting targets when attacking civilians are so armored that that bringing a Javelin to the table is a big deal. The main impact after this war is probably that it's going to be a lot more dangerous to take armored vehicles where they aren't wanted by the locals. See helicopters post the 1980s Afghanistan war. AreWeDrunkYet fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Mar 26, 2022 |
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Mar 26, 2022 17:15
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not caring here posted:So how far is Ukraine away from a NEGATIVE equipment loss? I'm trying to find it, but the Guardian quoted a Pentagon official as saying Ukraine now has more tanks than when they started.
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Mar 26, 2022 17:20
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madeintaipei posted:Even better, no one will own up to knowing where that lonely T-55 came from. I asked a South African coworker about Lesotho as it seemed odd to have a country landlocked entirely by your own country and he explained most South Africans barely think about it and compared it to Native American reservations.
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Mar 26, 2022 17:22
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When talking about the future of armour and how good the top attack weapons are, a pertinent point was raised by a tank expert. For all the hilarity of the cope cages, how many tanks that have one and were clearly taken out from a top attack have we seen evidence for?
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Mar 26, 2022 17:35
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Hyrax Attack! posted:I asked a South African coworker about Lesotho as it seemed odd to have a country landlocked entirely by your own country and he explained most South Africans barely think about it and compared it to Native American reservations. That is a sane and rational assessment by your colleague. Lesotho's independence served a very clear purpose by legitimizing SA and Rhodesia's independence from the UK. Past that, they didn't give a fuuuuuuck until it came time to rationalize creation of the Bantustans. "See? Lesotho has been there for years. A nearly homogeneous ethnostate with a strong government. Proof positive that, with our help, Africans can live apart but equal!" The Bantustans were not, obviously, equal in any sane sense of the word.
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Mar 26, 2022 17:38
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mlmp08 posted:I dunno, I feel like any country in Central or South America has perpetual bad dreams about the US Government arming up a bunch of right wing murderous assholes just because the US feels like it that particular month. And considering how wildly popular this has been, you're definitely going to see it happen again
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Mar 26, 2022 17:40
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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:When talking about the future of armour and how good the top attack weapons are, a pertinent point was raised by a tank expert. For all the hilarity of the cope cages, how many tanks that have one and were clearly taken out from a top attack have we seen evidence for? I've got to wonder how you'd even get positive ID on that rickety poo poo when it's upside down buried under the flipped, blown-off turret after eating a ATGM strike.
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Mar 26, 2022 17:41
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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:When talking about the future of armour and how good the top attack weapons are, a pertinent point was raised by a tank expert. For all the hilarity of the cope cages, how many tanks that have one and were clearly taken out from a top attack have we seen evidence for? I've personally seen a bunch photos and videos of dislodged turrets with a noticeable hole in the cope cage. What's interesting is that I've started seeing them less, which makes me think the Russians have either removed them or they're bringing in more stock and haven't had time to put them on.
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Mar 26, 2022 17:45
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