|
There's never not a good time to post the video of Stan Lee absolutely destroying McFarlane and Liefeld. https://youtu.be/RmLFGWAyajU
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2022 16:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 00:11 |
|
|
Skwirl posted:Pretty sure Todd McFarlane isn't allowed to make Angela figures even if he wanted to He could make Tiffany figures, regardless.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2022 19:10
|
|
|
Every boy in America has or wants a Marvel Comics Angela action figure and sales of it are at the top of the list every year.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2022 19:26
|
|
|
E the Shaggy posted:There's never not a good time to post the video of Stan Lee absolutely destroying McFarlane and Liefeld. What a legend.
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2022 15:26
|
|
|
Kirby was the legend, Stan just took the credit and profit.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2022 17:01
|
|
|
ruddiger posted:Kirby was the legend, Stan just took the credit and profit. I know people like to say that, and there's some truth to it, but I don't think it was exactly that simple. But I guess this is the thread for that conversation so
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2022 17:13
|
|
|
I think it's been kind of thing to downplay Lee for a while it seems but I honestly believe that if it wasn't for Lee's promoting and showmanship Marvel wouldn't be today what it is.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2022 17:14
|
|
|
Yeah I always see it as a partnership, and I'm someone with a full Kirby sleeve tattoo. Jack did most of the heavy lifting creatively, but if it weren't for Stan he probably would have been some outsider artist nobody heard of until after he'd died. It's an engineering/sales dynamic
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2022 22:36
|
|
|
It’s also worth noting that Stan’s scripting matched the level of bombast in Kirby’s art, which helped create a total package that was a one-of-a-kind combo.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2022 23:27
|
|
|
Stan Lee was the greatest hype man of all time.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2022 23:31
|
|
|
I’ve read all those marvel 60s comics. Stan was legit. The other writers during his time and for a decent while after his time were noticeably worse than him. He was lucky to have the likes of Kirby, Ditko, Buscema, and Romero… but they were lucky to have him too. Of note - Thor and Spider-Man did not get particularly worse when Kirby and Ditko left (because Stan brought in great artists to replace both of them). They did get noticeably worse when Stan left.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2022 23:42
|
|
|
Stan Lee took credit he didn't deserve but he legit pulled his weight at the same time. He was no Kirby but few people are and Marvel would not be what it was without him. Doesn't change his crappy behavior but you can recognize that while still ackbowledging that he was a part of what made everything work.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2022 23:52
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:Stan Lee took credit he didn't deserve but he legit pulled his weight at the same time. He was no Kirby but few people are and Marvel would not be what it was without him.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2022 00:12
|
|
|
Jordan7hm posted:Of note - Thor and Spider-Man did not get particularly worse when Kirby and Ditko left (because Stan brought in great artists to replace both of them). They did get noticeably worse when Stan left. One of the big reasons there isn't the scripting. Well, not just the scripting. It's that when Stan left, he stopped editing. For the entire 60's Stan Lee was Marvel Comics editorially and despite some serious missteps in handling the artistic talent, he was amazing at juggling those balls and running the the company. Marvel Comics as an entity really were Stan Lee. So when he stepped away, nobody could replace him and things fell apart. Lee was good at scripting those books and getting the exact right tone and voice. But in terms of editing, he might have been the best editor comic books have ever seen.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2022 00:55
|
|
|
FMguru posted:Lee manages to be simultaneously overrated and underrated. A friend of mine who used to work for ComicsAlliance said the exact same thing. The whole 'Stan Lee was a carny trapped in his own character' has become the meme but then you go and read unfiltered Ditko and realize just what Lee did which at the same time is of course not to take away from Kirby, Ditko, Buscema, etc. Random's point about the editorial side is also well made. I remember my favorite Stan encounter, which was mine. I was working a con with the shop and somebody asked me to hold the elevator and it was this small group of people and I did a doubletake to realize it was Stan and his entourage. They all got in and Stan saw me there with my mouth hanging open and he smiled and extended his hand. I said the only thing my misfiring brain could which was "Thank you for Spider-Man!" and without missing a beat, Stan said, "I made him just for you!"
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2022 02:57
|
|
|
The promoter shill came later. Stan started by knowing what the stories and characters needed. In a mid 60's interview with Kirby he pointed Stan out as being the best in the business.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2022 04:05
|
|
|
Dawgstar posted:I said the only thing my misfiring brain could which was "Thank you for Spider-Man!" and without missing a beat, Stan said, "I made him just for you!" Aww. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2022 06:18
|
|
|
I worked ops at a convention during the last year Stan was alive, and it was legitimately hard to watch him get shuffled around by his agent/manager, especially with all the news that was coming out around then.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2022 17:04
|
|
|
John Romita called Stan Lee "a con man who delivered the goods" and I think it might be my favorite description of him.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2022 12:51
|
|
|
What I liked about Stan Lee was in the interviews I saw, he would name drop the artist whenever they asked about the art and correct whenever they assumed he did it. It was nice to see. Isn’t there a video of Lee interviewing Bob Kane and trashing him for not giving his artists enough credit?
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2022 18:01
|
|
|
There's something about Stan Lee that makes trying to get a sense of him feel worse than just saying "people are contradictions." You can't point to one place in time and say "this is where he became an rear end in a top hat", there's a lot of skill, ego, greed, humility, arrogance, respect and disregard for others in a paradoxical package and just when you think one aspect is the driving force something will come up that skewers it. Both his warts and virtues were very public and very serious, which makes trying to look at either one feel like a bias.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2022 20:49
|
|
|
Bruceski posted:There's something about Stan Lee that makes trying to get a sense of him feel worse than just saying "people are contradictions." You can't point to one place in time and say "this is where he became an rear end in a top hat", there's a lot of skill, ego, greed, humility, arrogance, respect and disregard for others in a paradoxical package and just when you think one aspect is the driving force something will come up that skewers it. Both his warts and virtues were very public and very serious, which makes trying to look at either one feel like a bias. That's why Mark Evanier, who was a very close friend of Kirby's, says the only thing he begrudged Stan was sole credit.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2022 22:46
|
|
|
Dawgstar posted:That's why Mark Evanier, who was a very close friend of Kirby's, says the only thing he begrudged Stan was sole credit. Evanier is about the only source I’ll trust regarding their working relationship. For the life of me I can’t remember where I read it but when the duo were younger Lee took naturally to interviews while Kirby was quieter and didn’t have the same charisma, so I feel like some rumors started just based on that
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2022 23:47
|
|
|
SUPERMAN'S GAL PAL posted:Evanier is about the only source I’ll trust regarding their working relationship. For the life of me I can’t remember where I read it but when the duo were younger Lee took naturally to interviews while Kirby was quieter and didn’t have the same charisma, so I feel like some rumors started just based on that Kirby also died in the early 90's and I think that he spent years not really communicating because of mental issues as he aged.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2022 23:54
|
|
|
Evanier was an old school DC AOL chat regular and he had the best Kirby stories. We were briefly friends on Facebook but we had a falling out over my friendship with Bob Wayne at the time. TLDR: gently caress Bob Wayne, I kept the wrong friendship.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2022 23:55
|
|
|
King Baby posted:What I liked about Stan Lee was in the interviews I saw, he would name drop the artist whenever they asked about the art and correct whenever they assumed he did it. It was nice to see. Isn’t there a video of Lee interviewing Bob Kane and trashing him for not giving his artists enough credit? Marvel led the pack in terms of crediting not just artists, but everybody. One thing with Stan is that he seemed to think the idea was more important than the execution in terms of claiming creator credit. And it kind of makes sense from the perspective of an editor / writer who works with tons of artists. He respects them but they’re fungible.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2022 13:09
|
|
|
Stan lee's legacy is complicated but you can definitely see his mark on the things he help create . Like the later, purely ditko written spider man stories are nuts and detracts a lot from what makes the character relatable. I've seen people equate him with Bob Kane, which is just a grossly unfair comparison. Stan Lee was a good hype man who took more credit that he should have. Bob Kane was just a greedy fraud who contributed essentially nothing to batman and then took credit for everything.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2022 17:45
|
|
|
Monaghan posted:I've seen people equate him with Bob Kane, which is just a grossly unfair comparison. Stan Lee was a good hype man who took more credit that he should have. Bob Kane was just a greedy fraud who contributed essentially nothing to batman and then took credit for everything. Anywhere good to read more about this?
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2022 18:45
|
|
|
One thing is I read bother the Lee/Kirby Fantastic Four and the Lee/Ditko Spider-Man and the stuff immediately after Kirby and Ditko left those books and I think JRSR replaced those artists on both and while the artist change isn't that different on either if you're just looking at random panels it's super obvious when Kirby left FF and not that obvious when Ditko left Spider-Man.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2022 18:58
|
|
|
Kurui Reiten posted:Anywhere good to read more about this? This is the quick site Wikipedia links to with basic info. https://www.forbes.com/sites/robsalkowitz/2015/09/19/batmans-co-creator-bill-finger-finally-receives-recognition/?sh=7e7ceb81287e
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2022 19:26
|
|
|
Skwirl posted:One thing is I read bother the Lee/Kirby Fantastic Four and the Lee/Ditko Spider-Man and the stuff immediately after Kirby and Ditko left those books and I think JRSR replaced those artists on both and while the artist change isn't that different on either if you're just looking at random panels it's super obvious when Kirby left FF and not that obvious when Ditko left Spider-Man. ??? Spider-man went from   to   I love Ditko but Romita was a shot in the arm and a breath of fresh air. The whole MJ stuff works specifically because JRSR draws women like they're in romance books, whereas Ditko draws ... Ditko characters. It also helps that Romita drew backgrounds.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2022 20:38
|
|
|
At some point, you have to think that Comicsgate creators are purposefully loving with their simps: https://twitter.com/comicsgatels/status/1508952474517975040?s=21&t=U8YC5OMol8RjrUV7dRvVkw
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2022 01:49
|
|
|
At this point it feels like ComicsGate is just the same five guys grifting each other over and over and over again.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2022 02:11
|
|
|
Uthor posted:This is the quick site Wikipedia links to with basic info. I feel like as bad as Stan taking partial credit for somethings were, he never took sole credit and then spent time loving over other people to keep the credit like Cane did.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2022 06:50
|
|
|
Anora posted:I feel like as bad as Stan taking partial credit for somethings were, he never took sole credit and then spent time loving over other people to keep the credit like Cane did. Yeah, any time they acknowledge Stan Lee in the credits for anything they also acknowledge the artist who co-created it (usually either Jack Kirby or Steve Ditko). It wasn't until the 21st century Bill Finger's name was put in the credits of any tv show or movie about Batman. Edit: And Batman existed for like 30 years before anything Stan Lee is famous for. I don't know if Bob Cane's name is in the credits for them, but there were Batman movie serials decades before Spider-Man. Air Skwirl fucked around with this message at 09:42 on Mar 30, 2022 |
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2022 09:36
|
|
|
Stan Lees legacy is complicated but he's definitely not a Bob Kane. I remember an editorial that argued that without Stan Peter Parker would have become a super aggressive Randian creep under Ditko. Considering Steve Ditkos other work I can easily believe that.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2022 10:08
|
|
|
Nyeehg posted:Stan Lees legacy is complicated but he's definitely not a Bob Kane. I remember an editorial that argued that without Stan Peter Parker would have become a super aggressive Randian creep under Ditko. Considering Steve Ditkos other work I can easily believe that. Without Stan Lee Spider-Man wouldn't exist. Without Steve Ditko he would be a completely forgotten silver age character
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2022 10:12
|
|
|
Nyeehg posted:Stan Lees legacy is complicated but he's definitely not a Bob Kane. I remember an editorial that argued that without Stan Peter Parker would have become a super aggressive Randian creep under Ditko. Considering Steve Ditkos other work I can easily believe that. Ditko took over writing duties near the end of his run and he was the one who wrote that ridiculous panel of peter getting mad at a bunch of student protesters and the protesters admitting they are protesting over nothing. He also had peter just go " I don't have to worry about aunt may, I'm gonna be spider man." Monaghan fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Apr 1, 2022 |
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2022 20:04
|
|
|
I also wonder if Ditko is responsible for a lot of the really weird early Peter Parker inner monologues that drifted from "isolated and lonely nerd" to "a step away from bringing a gun to school"
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2022 20:07
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 00:11 |
|
|
I do wonder how much of Amazing was Ditko writing in Objectivist lunacy and Stan making it something the average person would want to, you know, read.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2022 23:12
|
|