[Asia/Oceania] Yellen says she hopes China wont mount retaliation against any steps Washington takes

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Asia/Oceania] Yellen says she hopes China wont mount retaliation against any steps Washington takes

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(Thread IKs: fart simpson)

HiroProtagonist: May 7, 2007

ToxicAcne posted:

syq

I wrote that actually

it's true, unironically

# ? Mar 26, 2022 02:41

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 25, 2024 12:05

HiroProtagonist: May 7, 2007

Antonymous posted:

Jesuits also introduced western-styled homophobia to china starting in the imperial court.

I think I wrote that global homophobia is 'abrahamic' in origin and was laughed out of some forum on here but it's what happened

edit: like in taiwan someone said they won't date black men because they are drug dealers. in what part of Taiwan's history was there a problem with black men selling drugs? or did the USA export its racist ideology globally for centuries leading to most cultures first exposure to black people being through that lens?

yeah i agree with you and got scoffed at similarly by saying western racism was imported via colonialism in PYF at one point

i guess we all just need to uhhh always keep up with the western liberal standards is the real message (??)

# ? Mar 26, 2022 02:44

Throatwarbler: Nov 17, 2008; by vyelkin

https://twitter.com/catcontentonly/status/1507469433454923782

# ? Mar 26, 2022 03:42

Raskolnikov38: Mar 3, 2007; We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

AnimeIsTrash posted:

https://twitter.com/FSeries__/status/1507511712869666822

Lol they apparently knew about the Houthi attack and did the race anyways

lmao the saudis held wwe wrestlers hostage for a day over a contract dispute if anyone is curious what the disruptions to their departure would be

# ? Mar 26, 2022 03:46

Palladium: May 8, 2012; Very Good
✔️✔️✔️✔️

Just glanced at a CNA documentary about poor HKer BNOs stuck in UK bad faith visa red tape hell and lovely employment opportunities

Nobody could have saw this coming

# ? Mar 26, 2022 06:15

Top City Homo: Oct 15, 2014; Ramrod XTreme

AnimeIsTrash posted:

https://twitter.com/MarkAmesExiled/status/1506683984511705089

lmfao

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wl959QnD3lM&

# ? Mar 26, 2022 08:10

Top City Homo: Oct 15, 2014; Ramrod XTreme

Palladium posted:

somebody gonna find out the hard way of mistaking courtesy as submission

they are making the mistake right now thinking that because Russia isnt slaughtering Ukranians like the US did to Iraq that makes rhem weak

the viciousness of the empire of lies is open for all to see

# ? Mar 26, 2022 08:17

Top City Homo: Oct 15, 2014; Ramrod XTreme

indigi posted:

what exactly is juche and please keep it under twenty sentences

militarize the working class; all power to the military; death to america

# ? Mar 26, 2022 08:19

Mantis42: Jul 26, 2010

There are more Ukrainian civilian deaths than there were Iraqi at this point in the conflict, so idk where the meme of Russians avoiding civilian death comes from. Imagine what it would be if they were winning the war lol.

# ? Mar 26, 2022 09:01

indigi: Jul 20, 2004; ^{how can we not talk about family

when family's all that we got?}

Mantis42 posted:

There are more Ukrainian civilian deaths than there were Iraqi at this point in the conflict

lol if you believe this

# ? Mar 26, 2022 09:23

Mantis42: Jul 26, 2010

It's about 4k each for the first month of both, is it not? Either way it's dumb af to pretend a reactionary nationalist state like Russia cares about civilian lives. If they did they wouldn't have invaded.

# ? Mar 26, 2022 09:36

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

Mantis42 posted:

There are more Ukrainian civilian deaths than there were Iraqi at this point in the conflict,

lol

# ? Mar 26, 2022 10:34

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

doesnt kiev still have running water and power

# ? Mar 26, 2022 10:48

Lyndon LaRouche: Sep 5, 2006; by Azathoth

comedyblissoption posted:

doesnt kiev still have running water and power

I just wanna say that your redtext is based. Gotta love the sort of synthetic leftoid who thought that would be some kind of own on you.

# ? Mar 26, 2022 11:22

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

one of the most thoughtful gifts ive ever received

the system works

# ? Mar 26, 2022 11:34

Lostconfused: Oct 1, 2008

Mantis42 posted:

There are more Ukrainian civilian deaths than there were Iraqi at this point in the conflict, so idk where the meme of Russians avoiding civilian death comes from. Imagine what it would be if they were winning the war lol.

You don't need to imagine.

# ? Mar 26, 2022 13:32

indigi: Jul 20, 2004; ^{how can we not talk about family

when family's all that we got?}

Mantis42 posted:

It's about 4k each for the first month of both, is it not?

ORB�s estimates say ~19.5k/month civiilian �violent deaths� March 03-Aug-07

Lancet�s estimates, which I trust more because it�s Lancet and they take a wholistic view of civilian deaths that doesn�t just include bullets and explosives, put it at 15k a month excess civilIan deaths over the first 40 months of the war, and 5 or 10k minimum over the first 18 depending on if you include Fallujah or not

even the Iraq Body Count, whose (conservative imo) methodology only includes deaths reported by coalition forces and coalition-approved NGOs - and only include violent/traumatic deaths - will tell you 7-8k in March 2003 alone

and no poo poo Russia doesn�t care about civilian lives. if they thought they could get what they wanted by doing Mariupol Everywhere then they�d be doing that, but it�s clear they consider that a poor strategic goal

# ? Mar 26, 2022 14:50

CoolCab: Apr 17, 2005; glem

no one likes sieges, particularly not people doing the sieging. it's slow it's extremely bloody a bunch of people starve to death and you wreck the city and anything valuable to loot from it. your armies, which could be off doing useful things, instead need to hunker down in a fixed location and police anyone trying to break the siege which is an extremely vulnerable position thousands of years ago ("the ram has touched the wall" was part of how romans reacted to and prevented sieges, no negotiation - if you make us do this we're killing or enslaving all of you) let alone now when there's artillery, air strikes and suicide bomber robots. terrible PR too.

# ? Mar 26, 2022 15:06

AnimeIsTrash: Jun 30, 2018

Kill All Cops posted:

https://i.imgur.com/aGGSsEI.mp4

The new multipolar world looking good.

# ? Mar 26, 2022 16:06

Some Guy TT: Aug 30, 2011

HiroProtagonist posted:

Xiangyu has videos on youtube, both of the talk and music variety, that radically changed my more typical lib understanding of just what "Juche" means and what life in the DPRK is like in general, but there are others as well.

would you care to recommend a specific video?

# ? Mar 26, 2022 17:00

HiroProtagonist: May 7, 2007

Some Guy TT posted:

would you care to recommend a specific video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEBoxrDqhZE

this one owns and was the first one i watched of his.

however extremely disappointingly it looks like the non-music videos in english were removed by youtube sometime in the past year or two

This is also a person I know however that has a running series on Juche's philosophical underpinnings (important to understand) before going into how it plays out in the real world.

https://www.youtube.com/c/shanelawrence86

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTkcyeAX4tQ

# ? Mar 26, 2022 17:20

Antonymous: Apr 4, 2009

I saw a youtube of some derpy white kid from Ireland who heard the DPRK has only 23 haircuts so he went to the DPRK to get a haircut and they were like 'what would you like we can do whatever' and the kid was like gently caress I knew it was bullshit and then goes on an intense anti-us imperialism rant

edit: they were not irish whatever

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BO83Ig-E8E

Antonymous has issued a correction as of 17:59 on Mar 26, 2022

# ? Mar 26, 2022 17:57

indigi: Jul 20, 2004; ^{how can we not talk about family

when family's all that we got?}

Antonymous posted:

I saw a youtube of some derpy white kid from Ireland who heard the DPRK has only 23 haircuts so he went to the DPRK to get a haircut and they were like 'what would you like we can do whatever' and the kid was like gently caress I knew it was bullshit and then goes on an intense anti-us imperialism rant

edit: they were not irish whatever

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BO83Ig-E8E

that was great

# ? Mar 26, 2022 18:35

mossyfisk: Nov 8, 2010; FF0000

CoolCab posted:

no one likes sieges, particularly not people doing the sieging. it's slow it's extremely bloody a bunch of people starve to death and you wreck the city and anything valuable to loot from it. your armies, which could be off doing useful things, instead need to hunker down in a fixed location and police anyone trying to break the siege which is an extremely vulnerable position thousands of years ago ("the ram has touched the wall" was part of how romans reacted to and prevented sieges, no negotiation - if you make us do this we're killing or enslaving all of you) let alone now when there's artillery, air strikes and suicide bomber robots. terrible PR too.

beginning to think war might be bad

# ? Mar 26, 2022 18:45

Kill All Cops: Apr 11, 2007; Pacheco de Chocobo; Hell Gem

actually, war is good for number

# ? Mar 26, 2022 19:03

Mantis42: Jul 26, 2010

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF6uKMYYBeA

# ? Mar 26, 2022 19:13

Flavahbeast: Jul 21, 2001

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_rYWy_7y1Q

# ? Mar 26, 2022 21:41

huhwhat: Apr 22, 2010; by sebmojo

touchy subject :can:

- religion - skip the whole post if ideas outside the mainstream in the west (incl. cspam) offends u :siren:

tldr chinese gods r like pokemon, they better put in fukken work or they go in da pc box, if u believe in a monotheistic god workin in mysrteruis ways concepts like the invisible hand might be easier to swallow since religion often mirrors power structures in the material world, see chinese celestial bureaucracy

Antonymous posted:

Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the opium of the people. It is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of our soulless conditions. - Karl Marx

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_of_the_people

quote:

Marx used the phrase to make a structural-functionalist argument about religion, and particularly about organized religion.[2][3]

In his view, religion may be false, but it is a function of something real.[7] Specifically, Marx believed that religion had certain practical functions in society that were similar to the function of opium in a sick or injured person: it reduced people's immediate suffering and provided them with pleasant illusions which gave them the strength to carry on. In this sense, while Marx may have no sympathy for religion itself, he has deep sympathy for those proletariat who put their trust in it.[4][7]

However, Marx also saw religion as harmful to revolutionary goals: by focusing on the eternal rather than the temporal, religion turns the attention of the oppressed away from the exploitation and class structure that encompasses their everyday lives. In the process, religion helps to foster a kind of false consciousness that emboldens cultural values and beliefs that support and validate the continued dominance of the ruling class. It thereby prevents the socialist revolution, the overthrowing of capitalism, and the establishment of a classless, socialist society.[4]

guess i was subconsciously channeling/paraphrasing/plagiarizing amrx?

critics poo poo on the chinese govt deriving its legitimacy from improving the lives of its ppl like its some kind of own. the critics propose instead that the chinese govt shud serve some higher ideal, prostrate themselves b4 the altars of the invisible hand, the liberal democracy or theee free speech. these critics r totally out of touch in that they dont quite realize that the basic tenets of marxism (in maoism, see primary vs secondary contradiction, in dengsim, see reform n opening) appeal to even the illiterate peasant in china who, at the core, r deeply pragmatic**. for evidence of pragmatic peasants, see this paper https://www.globethics.net/pdfs/CNKI/CJFD/MSYA201601014.pdf

** b4 theorist nerdz jump in to tell me materialism =/= pragmatism, yes they mean different things, but
https://redsails.org/marxs-philosophical-context/

quote:

Even as Marx adapts the positions of his philosophical friends and mentors, he cautions against the perils of philosophy itself. Philosophy turns out to be one more thing, like capitalism and the state, that the self-organizing working class is going to have to overcome.

�Materialism,� he says, is not a system, but a mode of attention, a giving-of-priority to the present and the onrushing future � a theory of practice, one might add on Marx�s behalf, ergo a bracketing of the metaphysics. On the basis of this passage alone, it would be advisable to substitute the word �pragmatism� every time Marx writes the word �materialism,� which silent amendment would head off one persistent misreading of Marx and return our attention to activity, which is where he wants it.

Maximo Roboto posted:

This is the narrative of tolerant/nurturing polytheism vs. intolerant/fanatical monotheism, but it's easy to find counterexamples. Wasn't Neo-Confucianism pretty intolerant in its own way, and stultifying? (I'm sure there are better examples I just wanted to pluck an example explicitly from imperial China's agnostic humanist history.)

neoconfucianism is as much a religion as a having a group of atheists around makes atheism a religion :shrug:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Confucianism

quote:

Neo-Confucianism (Chinese: 宋明理學; pinyin: S�ng-M�ng lǐxu�, often shortened to lixue 理學, literally "School of Principle") is a moral, ethical, and metaphysical Chinese philosophy influenced by Confucianism, and originated with Han Yu and Li Ao (772�841) in the Tang Dynasty,

Neo-Confucianism could have been an attempt to create a more rationalist and secular form of Confucianism by rejecting superstitious and mystical elements of Taoism and Buddhism that had influenced Confucianism during and after the Han Dynasty.[2]

Maximo Roboto posted:

Uhhh what about the Mandate of Heaven that's a pretty major example from imperial Chinese history.

its a great counterexample. if chinese peasants suffer a setback in their lives, their faith in the emperor doesnt grow stronger. in fact, the "son of god" needs to be toppled and someone who can keep the people fed becomes the new "son of god" instead. fukken peasants tunred into emperors ffs if u wanna talk about class mobility. monotheistic religion instead would say that if u starving makes u turn away from god, that means ur not a good disciple. a good monotheists' faith in god burn ever stronger in times of crisis and they pray to god for deliverance. if u cant see the difference between the pragmatic "u cant govern well, ur divinity is gone" chinese system and the monotheistic "biden works in mysterious ways, suffering is part of a grander plan" then iunno wut 2 say. chinese emperors r keenly aware of the material basis for their power hence they do poo poo like establishing imperial granaries

https://historyofyesterday.com/times-in-history-when-a-peasant-became-the-monarch-of-china-5315fb447f1c

quote:

The first Ming emperor, Zhu Yuanzhang, was born in Haozhou in 1328 AD to a destitute peasant family. He and his impoverished family would eat scraps of tree barks or grass during the early years to survive.

Born to a peasant family around 250 BC in Pei County, Lui Bang was a legendary figure of Chinese history. He was known for his administration policies, especially regarding the taxes he lowered for the peasants to revive the Chinese economy.

https://www.nytimes.com/1976/08/14/archives/the-mandate-of-heaven-essay.html

quote:

This ancient Chinese superstition held that rulers lost prestige and legitimacy�hence, the heavenly mandate to govern�if they proved incapable of coping with flood, famine, ‐pestilence or earthquake. Not merely if natural disaster occurred, but if the response was inadequate � which made it a most sensible superstition.

notice how maybe except for earthquake, everything else can be mitigated with proper state planning

https://www.britannica.com/topic/ever-normal-granary

quote:

ever-normal granaries, Price-stabilizing granaries first established in the 1st century bc. Under the Qing dynasty they were set up by all Chinese provinces in each county to keep grain on hand to offset regional food shortages in years of crop failure. By keeping the supply of grain stable (�ever normal�), the granaries stabilized prices, and even undeveloped regions of the country were protected from famine.

Maximo Roboto posted:

I think the issue is this whole discussion is sorta looking at Chinese religion through a very western lens, similar to discussions that try to examine Hinduism's place in India. Those "faiths" you mention (+ local traditions) weren't the only religions of China, nor the main religion of the state. The state was a religion in a way. It wasn't a theocratic state from the western Abrahamic stereotypes of a fanatical priesthood, but it was devoted to ineffable traditions passed on from dynasty to dynasty.

sure liberal democracy is devoted to ineffable traditions passed from elected representative to representative. oh, laws and institutions can change in liberal democracies? the same applies to imperial china then considering the various schools of thought/governance like mohism confucianism legalism battling it out.

for all the other points i didnt address, u can assume that either i agree with them/i have nothing to refute them with or that they were addressed by the massive wall of text below

https://www.zhihu.com/question/24663999

quote:

Why are Chinese people not religious? Despite China being such a populous nation, why are so few Chinese religious? Is the lack of faith in any god really a good thing - in spite of the share of rich people who are religious being greater than those who are not? Was it the same in ancient China?

https://www.zhihu.com/question/24663999/answer/355588486

my edited google translation (note:this answer has some inaccuracies and a tinge of anti-abrahamic faith and chinese chauvinism in it, im just quoting their answer, their views r not my own)

quote:

Let's look at the historical development timeline first:

1. Islam emerged in the 7th century AD
2. Buddhism spread to mainland China in the middle of the Eastern Han Dynasty after AD.
3. Jesus was born around BC/AD.
4. Qin Shi Huang unified the six kingdoms in 225 BC.
5. The struggle between a hundred schools of thought, with Taoism, Confucianism, Legalism and Mohism being the exemplars, in the Spring and Autumn Period and the Warring States Period. After hundreds of years of great ideological debates, various schools finally turned theories to praxis by implementing social reforms in various states, reforming and strengthening laws, and taking direct action.
6. As the Zhou Dynasty began replacing the Shang Dynasty, people abandoned their beliefs in ghosts and gods, turning instead towards ancestor worship.

Chinese civilization is a civilization that matured early. This statement is not some spurious conclusion. We have a cultural continuity that is basically uninterrupted, there isn't a prolonged dark age, and the ongoing cultural conversation of the past 2,500 years has basically excluded possibility of the elite (where literacy is the norm) having any religious beliefs. In the turmoil of the late Eastern Han Dynasty, the local religions were exterminated (Yellow Turbans) and scattered (Zhang Lu in Hanzhong). Since then, there have been no Taoist military groups or political entities in Chinese history. There were emperors who followed Taoism and Buddhism, but their faith is basically a means for using religion as a tool of governance. During the time when minority ethnic groups entered China proper (Central Plains) and ruled, Buddhism got a big boost in its development in the early years of these dynasties (Northern Wei Dynasty and Yuan Dynasty), but after the Four Buddhist Persecutions of China, it also submitted to the rule of a secular regime.

Now let us look at the question from a cultural point of view:

1. Traditional Chinese culture requires that gods/immortals each have their own specialization. When you are going out to the sea, worship Mazu. For each township, there is a local deity, the Tudigong (equivalent to the secular village chiefs (head of a hundred familes) and family chiefs (head of five neighboring families)), if you want there to be rain and wind you beseech the Dragon King (if the Dragon King ignores your pleas, you can sic Wei Zheng on him and threaten to lop off his head). And then there are also the God of the Kitchen, God of Wealth, Wenquxing, Yuelao, Shouxing, Black and White (gods ruling over ghosts and spirits). To add to the count, there are also Taoist Sanqings, Sakyamuni. In short, each god performs its own duties, which is similar to the secular bureaucracy. Monotheistic Christianity and Islam, in the eyes of the Chinese, are not very reliable (*￣m￣), claiming to have influence over all matters instead of specializing in a single domain - yeah right, we will see how well you actually perform.

2. From the point of view of the origin of the gods, there is a broad assortment of methods for ascending to godhood in China. Animals can turn into humanoids by cultivating themselves for 1800 years (Bai Suzhen). A mortal who has gone through extreme suffering can become a buddha immediately upon death (Guanyin). If you cultivate yourself for 180 years and is still alive at the end, you will have attained Dao (Zuo Ci). Sometimes, it is difficult not to get caught up with the zeitgeist and get turned into an immortal (Investiture of the Gods). They might even be someone who has originally ascended to heaven quietly but is then dragged back down to earth by mortals building temples so that they can bear witness to Chinese gangsters taking oaths of loyalty (Lord Guan). Heck, even if you don't end up becoming an immortal, so long as you do good deeds, you can reincarnate into a good family. You can do whatever you drat well please, there is no need to get stuck in heaven watching 72 virgins, yawning the whole time (you don't know, the martyr could very well be gay).

3. Chinese gods are required to have a sense of service. If ordinary people don�t believe in you or if they don't offer incense to you, you can�t get annoyed. If you don't help out mortals who are encountering difficulties - mortals who don't believe in your divinity - you will be scolded. If someone lights incense and asks you for help, you have to succesfully accomplish their task first before you can expect them to repay for your services (and you can't be a picky eater, you have to eat whatever food offerings that are given in repayment). If you do something that's even the slightest bit unfriendly to weak defenseless mortals, you will plunge into a moral abyss, stripped of your godhood and branded with demonhood. At that point, destroying a fallen god like you becomes a completely reasonable act (after all, righteousness always triumphs over evil).

Contrasted against the Chinese belief system, the three monotheistic Abrahamic faiths are weak!

https://www.zhihu.com/question/24663999/answer/505975083

this answer makes allusions to chinese mythology

quote:

quote:
When the sky cracked open, they made their own cement to patch it up; when the flood waters came, they did not ask the prophets for guidance, they dug canals to direct the flow; when infectious diseases abound, they did not ask for miracles, they tested medicines on themselves to cure themselves; when they drowned in the Eastern Sea, they reincarnated and proceeded to fill and level the sea; when the suns' heat scorched, they shot down the suns; when the officials don't inquire about the lives of the common people and instead seek counsel from ghosts and gods, then they let these officals go; in a land first created from a swing of the axe that split heaven from earth, you will find that every corner of this land is inhabitated by people who aren't willing to be slaves. These are the things that people of this nation will not allow to be desecrated, to be blasphemed.
With people like these, what need is there for faith in religions? Why would you let someone else do things that you yourself can do? Doing it yourself is more reliable.

quote:

Comment: It's the first time I've seen someone citing the classics and citing myths and legends as an answer. Aren't all these stories about human beings being incapable of solving certain problems, so they expect "gods" like Nuwa, Jingwei and Pangu to appear and solve the problems?

Reply: The people in these myths and legends, Dayu, Shennong, Jingwei, etc., are more or less related to mortals. Most of the stories are "what sort of trials mortals have encountered and what mortals did in response". Although they are legends and not necessarily based on historical events, the central idea is "what human beings did" rather than "what gods did". In these stories, there is no pleading the gods, there is no sacrificing animals to the gods to keep themselves safe. All the problems encountered by mortals are solved by mortals themselves. Maybe these events have been exaggerated, but they are still different in essence from the Western way of relying on "God" to solve problems.

https://www.globethics.net/pdfs/CNKI/CJFD/MSYA201601014.pdf

this 2016 journal paper investigating why the spread of christianity is encountering resistance in northern, central, southern regions of china is too long to translate. the reason im linking it here is because it constantly emphasized the importance of practical utility in determining whether the chinese people buy into a faith (see excerpts below)

u can use a translator that preserves the pdf's structure, i used onlinedoctranslator.com

quote:

CNKI (China National Knowledge Infrastructure, 中国知网) is a key national research and information publishing institution in China, led by Tsinghua University, and supported by PRC Ministry of Education, PRC Ministry of Science, Propaganda Department of the Chinese Communist Party and PRC General Administration of Press and Publication (GAPP).

quote:

pg 80

"What kind of belief". This refers to the question of "why do people believe", that is, what are the purposes driving people to believe in a certain religion or a certain deity. Based on the original intent behind the peasant beliefs, we can divide peasants' beliefs into function-based belief and value-based belief. The former refers to the form of belief arising from people choosing to believe in some religion or deity because they seek to fulfill particular functions in their daily lives. The latter refers to the form of belief arising from people believing in some religion or deity to express some value or to seek spiritual support. As the purposes behind beliefs are different, the choice in deities and the level of devotion towards deities differs as well. Function-based belief are comparatively more discriminating in their choice of deities and have lower devotion, value-based belief are comparatively less discriminating in their choice of deities and have higher devotion.

Except for the beliefs of Tibetan, Hui, Mongolian and other ethnic minorities, the kind of belief that is widespread among Chinese peasants is function-based belief. The biggest characteristic of function-based belief is that people will select different deities based on their own functional needs. In the belief system of farming villages, different deities can fulfill different functions, with some deities having greater divine power, having a higher divine rank, providing a more comprehensive portfolio of function. Some deities are specialized, such as the God of Wealth, Baby-Delivering Guanyin etc., expresslessly designed to meet the particular functional needs of the people. The scope in which different deities are capable of carrying out their functions also differs in size, some deities work across the entire nation or an entire region, such as the God of the Kitchen, Guangong, Guanyin Bodhisattva etc., everyone can make offerings to them; some deities are bound to a particular village, such as the village god, Tudigong, Tudigong temple etc., who only provide protection for villages under their jurisdiction; further still, there are deities who belong to families, who exist only to fulfill the functional needs of descendants. In addition, even if deities share the same portfolio, their divine power levels can differ in magnitude, with people typically choosing the deity with greater power to fulfill their own functions.

It is precisely because of the diversity in deities and their functions that people will choose different deities to fulfill particular functional needs. This shows that function-based belief is selective towards deities rather than having a fixed belief in some particular deity: (1) The ability to choose deities determines that when people choose certain deities to fulfill different functions, other deities are necessarily not chosen. (2) People are likelier to choose deities that are said to be more powerful, abandoning deities which are less powerful or incapable of exhibiting divine power. (3) When people choose one deity over another, they will not feel that they are betraying the latter, nor will they feel that their choice will lead to the latter punishing them. (4) Belief or abandoning belief in one or more deities is not permanent, people will abandon or re-select a previously abandoned deity to meet their functional needs. (5) To fulfill a particular function, it is possible to choose different deities at the same time. (6) The more complete a belief system, the more deities there are, the greater the selection space there is for the peasants, making it more capable of fulfilling the peasants' functional needs. Therefore, function-based belief is not undivided and devoted belief, it might even carry a strong sense of utilitarianism and purposefulness.

Function-based belief's characteristics - having a diverse selection of deities and the ability to choose them - makes it so that this type of belief has a somewhat stronger tolerance and non-exclusionary nature (more accommodating). Over here, people are free to choose to believe in or abandon one or more deities. Deities are passive under the selection process of the people. The deities will not proactively help people, but the deities will also not punish people for abandoning them. When people believe in a single deity, it does not exclude them from choosing other deities. Between deities, there exists only differences in functions, there are no conflicts in terms of creeds/doctrines and interests, different deities can exist harmoniously. It is only because there is an existing foundation of having the ability to choose deities and having the tendency to choose a deity or a team of deity whose powers are greater that peasants turned their attention towards "Lord Jesus" who is said to have greater divine power. On the contrary, if it was like organized religion, if deities in Chinese farming villages' folk belief are fixed and cannot be freely chosen, then there will be an exclusionary tendency and peasants will not switch to Christianity.

quote:

pg 82

According to the author's investigation, before liberation (i.e. the Communist Revolution), almost every household in Yu Village had several figurines of gods and several shrines on their "tables for the elderly". People place different figurines of gods according to their needs. There are mainly two figurines, one is the God of Wealth, the other is Guanshiyin. There are also Guan Gong, the Jade Emperor, Maitreya Buddha etc. Many families also put up a god called "Granny Eyes", who is said to preserve the eyesight of the elderly. Pig keepers have their Pig God and there is also a separate god dedicated to crops. On the road leading to the temple complex, there is a god dedicated to the road itself. In funerals, it is necessary to "register the name of the deceased (the temple)" to inform the local Tudigong deity. As far as the whole village and farming families are concerned, the village god and the river god are rather important as the village god is the god of the entire village and is responsible for preserving the harmony of the entire village and keeping it safe from external intrusion. The river god is responsible for the keeping the entire agricultural land irrigated to ensure regular harvests. There are many small shrines scattered all over the village, each dedicated to the god of the particular road it is on. There are four or five large temples within tens of kilometers around the village. Two kilometers away from Yu Village is Zhang Liang's tomb which also serves as a place of worship. All kinds of witches and sorcerers can be found throughout the area.

quote:

pg 87-88

In rural northern areas, farmers choose a certain form of religion or belief, usually not because of they agree with its teachings and ideas, and also not because they wish to pursue transcendental values; it is merely to meet the needs and absences of daily life, to make up for functions and features missing in the aspects of fertility, life, psychology and social interaction. In the mind of a peasant, Western countries are more developed than China, so gods originating from the West are also more powerful than the local gods. When local gods cannot meet their needs, farmers are inclined to choose the "more powerful" Christianity.

these were the most reliable data i could get my hands on and u hv the right to doubt them

for the zhihu q&a answers, u can argue that they arent representative cuz they r like hoity toity perpetually online twitter leftists who r out of touch with the common working peeps

for the folklore studies paper i linked, u can argue that maybe the researchers r biased/unqualified, the journals standards r low, their sampling is biased, their interview subjects r lying etc etc

# ? Mar 26, 2022 23:15

OhFunny: Jun 26, 2013; EXTREMELY PISSED AT THE DNC

Iran Says It Has Agreement With Three Countries on Nuclear Deal

Iran's foreign minister, Hossein Amir-Abdollahian, says draft text of the deal has been agreed upon by Germany, France, and Britain. All that's needed is America's sign on and the removal of the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps from its terrorist blacklist.

# ? Mar 27, 2022 00:07

genericnick: Dec 26, 2012

OhFunny posted:

Iran Says It Has Agreement With Three Countries on Nuclear Deal

Iran's foreign minister, Hossein Amir-Abdollahian, says draft text of the deal has been agreed upon by Germany, France, and Britain. All that's needed is America's sign on and the removal of the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps from its terrorist blacklist.

I mean, wasn't that basically always the case?

# ? Mar 27, 2022 00:22

ikanreed: Sep 25, 2009; I honestly I have no idea who cannibal[SIC] is and I do not know why I should know.

syq dude, just syq!

genericnick posted:

I mean, wasn't that basically always the case?

American news consumers are like pro wrestling audiences in that you can reuse a story after 18 months and they won't notice

# ? Mar 27, 2022 00:27

eSports Chaebol: Feb 22, 2005; Yeah, actually, gamers in the house forever,

Lostconfused posted:

You don't need to imagine.

I mean it�s pretty clear imho that Putin expected Grover.txt but for Kyiv and it honestly looked like that was gonna happen at first. honestly would�ve probably been better for the people of Ukraine even

# ? Mar 27, 2022 01:56

Gresh: Jan 12, 2019

Jose posted:

Lmao

https://twitter.com/shen_shiwei/status/1507246234515369984?t=Lb4oq4YZhXmT5ziM1CXVSQ&s=19

this is a tommy wiseau level masterpiece of unintentional hilarity

# ? Mar 27, 2022 05:32

fits my needs: Jan 1, 2011; Grimey Drawer

https://twitter.com/XisMoments/status/1507923385141059588?s=20&t=aPunBQtNB7XczLJsG0kXMw

# ? Mar 27, 2022 05:39

BEAR GRYLLZ: Jul 30, 2006; I have strong erections for Israel.
Strong, pathetic erections.

sorry but educating girls is not woke and actually genocide now

# ? Mar 27, 2022 06:02

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

https://twitter.com/melissakchan/status/1507710734112800769?t=ruPaKXWJD2wdzNrxcwJG9Q&s=19

# ? Mar 27, 2022 06:21

bedpan: Apr 23, 2008

gradenko_2000 posted:

https://twitter.com/melissakchan/status/1507710734112800769?t=ruPaKXWJD2wdzNrxcwJG9Q&s=19

https://twitter.com/melissakchan/status/1352754971234750465

As a Joe Biden supporter, Melissa Chan's position on women in skirts has evolved

# ? Mar 27, 2022 06:33

fart simpson: Jul 2, 2005; DEATH TO AMERICA

gradenko_2000 posted:

https://twitter.com/melissakchan/status/1507710734112800769?t=ruPaKXWJD2wdzNrxcwJG9Q&s=19

when you put it that way� makes you think

# ? Mar 27, 2022 07:15

Rutibex: Sep 9, 2001; by Fluffdaddy

huhwhat posted:

its a great counterexample. if chinese peasants suffer a setback in their lives, their faith in the emperor doesnt grow stronger. in fact, the "son of god" needs to be toppled and someone who can keep the people fed becomes the new "son of god" instead. fukken peasants tunred into emperors ffs if u wanna talk about class mobility. monotheistic religion instead would say that if u starving makes u turn away from god, that means ur not a good disciple. a good monotheists' faith in god burn ever stronger in times of crisis and they pray to god for deliverance. if u cant see the difference between the pragmatic "u cant govern well, ur divinity is gone" chinese system and the monotheistic "biden works in mysterious ways, suffering is part of a grander plan" then iunno wut 2 say. chinese emperors r keenly aware of the material basis for their power hence they do poo poo like establishing imperial granaries

what about daoism though

# ? Mar 27, 2022 07:50

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 25, 2024 12:05

30.5 Days: Nov 19, 2006

idk man there was a ton of peasant revolts in medieval europe and I'm pretty sure they lined up pretty closely with famines

# ? Mar 27, 2022 08:18

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Asia/Oceania] Yellen says she hopes China wont mount retaliation against any steps Washington takes

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