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Bored As Fuck
Jan 1, 2006
Fun Shoe

Oxygenpoisoning posted:

I teach a class in Intel. The Bush admin actually stood up its own intelligence apparatus within the CIA to cherry pick and in some cases fabricate intelligence. A bunch of CIA careerist called them out on it, so they had to pivot and moved the Bush admin people to the DOD.

The DCIA (George Tenet) got ambushed during the infamous yellow cake speech by Powell. Powell told Cheney he’d only give the speech to the UN if CIA backed it. Cheney got Tenet a front row seat behind Powell to sell it. After the speech Tenet and Powell figured out what was going on and were apparently furious that they were set up with a bunch of bogus Intel. Neither of them resigned though or made a fuss so obviously they weren’t too mad…

Man that'd be a kick rear end class to take.

And also that's even worse than I read.

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Hyrax Attack!
Jan 13, 2009

We demand to be taken seriously

Cimber posted:

And hundreds of billions of dollars flushed down a toilet. Imagine if we gave NASA that money instead.

Not at all mentally taxing to read articles from 1999 about the unknown effects on the bond market if the US continued on its pace to pay off the national debt by 2015.

munce
Oct 23, 2010

ASAPI posted:

I'm confused.

Russians are using naval mines on land? Ukraine is doing this? Who is just placing naval mines on roads?

Reminds me of this classic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApJCfeipvIQ

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011



Soiled Meat
It's very likely Ukrainian, Mariupol is a port, they probably had a stockpile mines there, tried to use them as IEDs or something.

Cimber
Feb 3, 2014

Hyrax Attack! posted:

Not at all mentally taxing to read articles from 1999 about the unknown effects on the bond market if the US continued on its pace to pay off the national debt by 2015.

Everyone talks about the 1950s as being the golden age of America.

I think the 1990s actually were. We had 'won' the cold war, we had a good economy going, innovation and technology were booming. Music and culture was pretty good, and the biggest issue facing us was wondering if the president got a hummer in the oval office.

Oxygenpoisoning
Feb 21, 2006

Bored As gently caress posted:

Man that'd be a kick rear end class to take.

And also that's even worse than I read.

Cadets at West Point don’t seem to agree since I’ve had to scrape to teach it each semester. I mainly teach into to statistics and prove racism and sexism are legitimate problem in our society.

M_Gargantua
Oct 16, 2006

STOMP'N ON INTO THE POWERLINES

Exciting Lemon
Oh west point?

No wonder, you're teaching them hard truths they have no interest in learning.

USA #1/CIA good/No SAPR no problem grindset

maffew buildings
Apr 29, 2009

too dumb to be probated; not too dumb to be autobanned
If racism and sexism exist then why do I think they don't? Checkmate lib :smug:

pantslesswithwolves
Oct 28, 2008

Notahippie posted:

Fun fact:* "Viewed body in water" is considered as a separate exposure category from other exposure to dead bodies in some assessments of PTSD risk because of how bad it can get.




*not fun

I saw one of the uncensored photos of one of the tank crew bodies and it wasn’t terrible- guess the cold water minimized the worst aspects of what happens to a submerged corpse.

That said, if I was in an inverted tank with water rushing in and no way out, I’d be looking for my sidearm in a hurry. I really don’t even want to consider what that death is like.

Oxygenpoisoning
Feb 21, 2006

M_Gargantua posted:

Oh west point?

No wonder, you're teaching them hard truths they have no interest in learning.

USA #1/CIA good/No SAPR no problem grindset

There are some hot takes and pearl clutching for sure. I occasionally get a student who will point out I’m not a ring knocker so I clearly don’t understand the real world because of it.

There are some surprisingly progressive cadets too. I oversee an extremism project and I’m pretty sure of the 4 cadets 3 are DSA members and the last is a reformed channer who I have to convince monthly that autism isn’t the reason the alt right exists.

Nick Soapdish
Apr 27, 2008


Oxygenpoisoning posted:

There are some hot takes and pearl clutching for sure. I occasionally get a student who will point out I’m not a ring knocker so I clearly don’t understand the real world because of it.

Future Chief of the Army right there

M_Gargantua
Oct 16, 2006

STOMP'N ON INTO THE POWERLINES

Exciting Lemon

Oxygenpoisoning posted:

I occasionally get a student who will point out I’m not a ring knocker so I clearly don’t understand the real world because of it.

I recommend one of those little handheld supersoakers to spray them like a cat whenever they try this. Its a wonderful and comical conditioning tool for officers. "tell me about the real world of your currently getting sprayed in the face"

I'm not even being sarcastic. But I think what we did on our submarine counts as hazing. Worth it though.

Cimber
Feb 3, 2014

M_Gargantua posted:

I recommend one of those little handheld supersoakers to spray them like a cat whenever they try this. Its a wonderful and comical conditioning tool for officers. "tell me about the real world of your currently getting sprayed in the face"

I'm not even being sarcastic. But I think what we did on our submarine counts as hazing. Worth it though.

How bad was crossing the equator?

Or do they not do that in subs since position is secret?

Bored As Fuck
Jan 1, 2006
Fun Shoe

Oxygenpoisoning posted:

Cadets at West Point don’t seem to agree since I’ve had to scrape to teach it each semester. I mainly teach into to statistics and prove racism and sexism are legitimate problem in our society.

My dad had the opportunity to teach military history at West Point, and also got an offer to become a fellow at one prestigious university that I can't recall. I think he always regretted not taking those offers, but he got a decent life and 2 good kids out of staying where he was.

How do you like teaching there besides the snot nose kids? Are some of the kids good and make it worth it?

Casimir Radon
Aug 2, 2008


Kids whose singular goal was to attend an outdated status symbol dum?

M_Gargantua
Oct 16, 2006

STOMP'N ON INTO THE POWERLINES

Exciting Lemon

Cimber posted:

How bad was crossing the equator?

Or do they not do that in subs since position is secret?

Secrecy is only for when you were on mission, during deployments or training when you're in the middle of nowhere you can surface and do swim calls. We did some off Maui too, not just in the middle of the Pacific.

Shellbacking was very much toned down from what it used to be. In 2012 weirdest things were crawling through a tarp tunnel full of canned corn and whip cream and chocolate syrup and occasionally one unlucky soul had to eat a cherry out of "king triton's" (read fattest chief's) belly button.

Then at the end everybody got to climb topside and dive into the ocean after being pummeled with a fire hose.

Once it was over we had a cookout and kept swimming. Nothing at all horizon to horizon and 13000 feet of water underneath

Kaal
May 22, 2002

through thousands of posts in D&D over a decade, I now believe I know what I'm talking about. if I post forcefully and confidently, I can convince others that is true. no one sees through my facade.

M_Gargantua posted:

Once it was over we had a cookout and kept swimming. Nothing at all horizon to horizon and 13000 feet of water underneath

Sounds like a great memory. 🌊

Cimber
Feb 3, 2014

M_Gargantua posted:

Secrecy is only for when you were on mission, during deployments or training when you're in the middle of nowhere you can surface and do swim calls. We did some off Maui too, not just in the middle of the Pacific.

Shellbacking was very much toned down from what it used to be. In 2012 weirdest things were crawling through a tarp tunnel full of canned corn and whip cream and chocolate syrup and occasionally one unlucky soul had to eat a cherry out of "king triton's" (read fattest chief's) belly button.

Then at the end everybody got to climb topside and dive into the ocean after being pummeled with a fire hose.

Once it was over we had a cookout and kept swimming. Nothing at all horizon to horizon and 13000 feet of water underneath

Nice, sounds like a fun time.

My dad was USN in World War 2, he mentioned something about not being able to sleep on his back for a few days after he crossed the equator. I had found his certificate one day and asked him about it.

He didn't talk much about the war, but he spoke about that.

Notahippie
Feb 4, 2003

Kids, it's not cool to have Shane MacGowan teeth
I have a friend who was a nuke-qualified officer on a sub and the thing he mentioned to me was that they'd play a game called "chest hair or pubes" where they'd spirinkle a handful of hair on a clipboard they were handing over and ask the guy to guess which they were. They were always pubes.

Soul Dentist
Mar 17, 2009
Now I'm not no military man but in my town chest hair IS pubes

FrozenVent
May 1, 2009

The Boeing 737-200QC is the undisputed workhorse of the skies.

Cimber posted:

Nice, sounds like a fun time.

My dad was USN in World War 2, he mentioned something about not being able to sleep on his back for a few days after he crossed the equator. I had found his certificate one day and asked him about it.

He didn't talk much about the war, but he spoke about that.

There traditionally was a whole lot of spanking involved.

Oxygenpoisoning
Feb 21, 2006

Bored As gently caress posted:

My dad had the opportunity to teach military history at West Point, and also got an offer to become a fellow at one prestigious university that I can't recall. I think he always regretted not taking those offers, but he got a decent life and 2 good kids out of staying where he was.

How do you like teaching there besides the snot nose kids? Are some of the kids good and make it worth it?

I enjoy it. I’m a researcher primarily with only one or two classes a semester that I teach. A lot of the cadets are stellar and way smarter than I probably gave them credit for in the other posts. There are definitely lovely cadets too, but most are just stressed kids trying to balance a difficult college situation and being 18-22. Some do better than others at that balance.

I got lucky getting the job as most of the other people here are alumna. Literally that needed someone with my MOS and degree for the research position and I ended up being the only one who applied that met those minimum requirements. Luckily the environment is super laid back among instructors as long as you aren’t being a creep to cadets. Only bad thing is the academy isn’t structured like a normal university so there’s 1 days and 2 days that alternate. So some weeks I teach MWF and others TuTh. It also changes at a whim and I haven’t made sense of it. Everyone that’s an alumni knows all the quirks and I’m definitely a lost private sometimes when they talk about poo poo that only pertains to the academy and not the rest of the army.

Wasabi the J
Jan 23, 2008

MOM WAS RIGHT

Oxygenpoisoning posted:

I teach a class in Intel. The Bush admin actually stood up its own intelligence apparatus within the CIA to cherry pick and in some cases fabricate intelligence. A bunch of CIA careerist called them out on it, so they had to pivot and moved the Bush admin people to the DOD.

The DCIA (George Tenet) got ambushed during the infamous yellow cake speech by Powell. Powell told Cheney he’d only give the speech to the UN if CIA backed it. Cheney got Tenet a front row seat behind Powell to sell it. After the speech Tenet and Powell figured out what was going on and were apparently furious that they were set up with a bunch of bogus Intel. Neither of them resigned though or made a fuss so obviously they weren’t too mad…

zoux posted:

I'm not going to defend the modern NYT, but this is a bit like calling the San Francisco Chronicle anti-Spaniard because it's owned by Hearst.

I was writing about how the NYT will often post intentionally misleading or outright fabrications in support of fascist, pro war, or anti-immigration goals and Iraq came up.

quote:

A front-page story was authored by Judith Miller (now on Fox News!) which claimed that the Iraqi government was in the process of developing nuclear weapons was published. Miller's story was cited by officials such as Condoleezza Rice, Colin Powell, and Donald Rumsfeld as part of a campaign to commission the Iraq War. One of Miller's prime sources was Ahmed Chalabi, an Iraqi expatriate who returned to Iraq after the U.S. invasion and held a number of governmental positions culminating in acting oil minister and deputy prime minister from May 2005 until May 2006. In 2005, negotiating a private severance package with Sulzberger, Miller retired after criticisms that her reporting of the lead-up to the Iraq War was factually inaccurate and overly favorable to the position of the Bush administration,

sidebar about Karen Miller posted:

Miller co-wrote a book Germs: Biological Weapons and America's Secret War, which became a top New York Times best seller shortly after she became a victim of a hoax anthrax letter at the time of the 2001 anthrax attacks.

Miller was involved in the Plame Affair, where Valerie Plame was outed as a Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) spy by Richard Armitage after her husband published a New York Times op-ed casting doubts on claims that Saddam Hussein sought to purchase uranium from Africa. Miller spent 85 days in jail for refusing to reveal that her source... Scooter Libby.

Her Russian-born father, Bill Miller, was Jewish. He owned the Riviera night club in New Jersey and later operated several casinos in Las Vegas.

Which also led me to seeing their Holodomor coverage:

Walter Duranty's Holodomor coverage and Pulitzer posted:

Walter Duranty, who served as its Moscow bureau chief from 1922 through 1936, has been criticized for a series of stories in 1931 on the Soviet Union and won a Pulitzer Prize for his work at that time. Criticism rose for his denial of widespread famine, most particularly Holodomor, a famine in Soviet Ukraine in the 1930s in which he summarized Russian propaganda, and the Times published, as fact: "Conditions are bad, but there is no famine".

EasilyConfused
Nov 21, 2009


one strong toad

Wasabi the J posted:

I was writing about how the NYT will often post intentionally misleading or outright fabrications in support of fascist, pro war, or anti-immigration goals and Iraq came up.

Nothing you've posted has demonstrated that. You've given examples of incorrect and even bad reporting.

Real talk, if the NYT is fascist, what daily newspaper isn't? The Daily Worker?

Edit: Wait, wasn't this conversation happening in the other thread?

Edit2: Yeah it was. Hopefully there isn't a third thread I'm supposed to read in order to understand your posts.

EasilyConfused fucked around with this message at 02:29 on Apr 1, 2022

Natty Ninefingers
Feb 17, 2011

EasilyConfused posted:

Nothing you've posted has demonstrated that. You've given examples of incorrect and even bad reporting.

Real talk, if the NYT is fascist, what daily newspaper isn't? The Daily Worker?

Edit: Wait, wasn't this conversation happening in the other thread?

Edit2: Yeah it was. Hopefully there isn't a third thread I'm supposed to read in order to understand your posts.

There is, actually.

In fact there are four but one is obscure.

EasilyConfused
Nov 21, 2009


one strong toad

Natty Ninefingers posted:

There is, actually.

In fact there are four but one is obscure.

It's in coupons, isn't it?

Wasabi the J
Jan 23, 2008

MOM WAS RIGHT

Natty Ninefingers posted:

There is, actually.

In fact there are four but one is obscure.

My poo poo posting knows no borders.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_controversies_involving_The_New_York_Times?wprov=sfla1

It's not a hard to notice the NYT op-ed section is a fascist mouthpiece, willingly or unwittingly.

Hyrax Attack!
Jan 13, 2009

We demand to be taken seriously

Wasabi the J posted:

My poo poo posting knows no borders.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_controversies_involving_The_New_York_Times?wprov=sfla1

It's not a hard to notice the NYT op-ed section is a fascist mouthpiece, willingly or unwittingly.

Without getting into the problems with many of their opinion writers, at least they have Jamelle Bouie. Great columnist and he appeared on the We Hate Movies podcast to discuss Batman Returns.

Acebuckeye13
Nov 2, 2010

Against All Tyrants

Ultra Carp
The NYT employs some excellent journalists and provides excellent coverage, but their editorial staff and many of the people they pay to write opinion columns are some of the absolute worst people imaginable.

Elviscat
Jan 1, 2008

Well don't you know I'm caught in a trap?

Cimber posted:

Nice, sounds like a fun time.

My dad was USN in World War 2, he mentioned something about not being able to sleep on his back for a few days after he crossed the equator. I had found his certificate one day and asked him about it.

He didn't talk much about the war, but he spoke about that.

My grandfather crossed the equator on the USS Arizona, and his shellback and my bluenose certificates are the only two visible pieces of military memorabilia in my house.

Bluenose on a submarine was the most fun I've had underway in over 6 years of sea time. It's been toned down due to it and shellback's status as the only approved "hazing" rituals officially allowed by the Navy, and it was made clear you can opt out at any time. Nothing I'd consider physical abuse happened at all, although I was very, very cold at some points.

A lot of commands just won't do it anymore because it's not worth even 1 hazing complaint for the CoC, which is honestly a shame because you rarely get to have any genuine fun when you're locked in an underwater tube for months at a time.

Nuclear Tourist
Apr 7, 2005

Ukrainian helicopter gunship raid into Russia, apparently. Belgorod is just over the border from Kharkiv.

https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1509768294533935119
https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1509746023861825544

GD_American
Jul 21, 2004

LISTEN TO WHAT I HAVE TO SAY AS IT'S INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT!
(image of a sad mom leaving a Pomona yoga class, trudging to her Highlander and slowly peeling off the Slava Ukraini sticker that she had put next to her Sierra Club one)

Comrade Blyatlov
Aug 4, 2007


should have picked four fingers





Nuclear Tourist posted:

Ukrainian helicopter gunship raid into Russia, apparently. Belgorod is just over the border from Kharkiv.

https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1509768294533935119
https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1509746023861825544

Wow

carrionman
Oct 30, 2010
I'm still in awe of how poo poo the Russian equipment is. Like, it has to be some truly awe inspiring corruption.

I'm borrowing a thermal rifle scope at the moment, it's about 9k nzd and I can see a pig at about 1km away. It is also made in Belarus. How do you not even have optics for half your soldiers when one of your major allies is pumping out this stuff?

Zamujasa
Oct 27, 2010



Bread Liar

carrionman posted:

I'm still in awe of how poo poo the Russian equipment is. Like, it has to be some truly awe inspiring corruption.

I'm borrowing a thermal rifle scope at the moment, it's about 9k nzd and I can see a pig at about 1km away. It is also made in Belarus. How do you not even have optics for half your soldiers when one of your major allies is pumping out this stuff?

why spend 9k on supplies when you can spend 200 on shittier supplies and pocket the rest

vuk83
Oct 9, 2012

carrionman posted:

I'm still in awe of how poo poo the Russian equipment is. Like, it has to be some truly awe inspiring corruption.

I'm borrowing a thermal rifle scope at the moment, it's about 9k nzd and I can see a pig at about 1km away. It is also made in Belarus. How do you not even have optics for half your soldiers when one of your major allies is pumping out this stuff?

Tthe equipment is probably fine, the Ukrainian army makes it work.
The russian training, maintenance and leadership though.

vuk83
Oct 9, 2012

vuk83 posted:

The equipment is probably fine, the Ukrainian army makes it work.
The russian training, maintenance and leadership though.

Vincent Van Goatse
Nov 8, 2006

Enjoy every sandwich.

Smellrose
If there's a single institutional takeaway from this war it's about how important actual maintenance procedures are.

Stravag
Jun 7, 2009

"If you can run a wrench you can run an army" policy needs to be instituted. Every officer needs to work in a maintenance for a month as part of broadening lol

Edit: actually work torn knuckles, grease under their nails scrubbing an oil filter housing clean kind of work

Stravag fucked around with this message at 08:21 on Apr 1, 2022

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Comrade Blyatlov
Aug 4, 2007


should have picked four fingers





If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a javelin

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